Advice on how to handle an ex please!

Calliope610

1. Yes, they know he isn't their biological father.
2. I don't want them to meet him at all.

What your saying is I should let him back into their lives after 10 and 7 years of not caring enough to make a phone call?

Why are you so afraid to give the children a choice? This is THEIR decision. You can explain things to them. They know he hasn't been around. They may very well have no interest in seeing him. But they have a RIGHT to that decision. They have a RIGHT to meet their father if they choose to.

You should be there. It should be in public and supervised and they should be aware that he may disappear on them again, given his history. They should be prepared for the worst. But they have a right to decide they want to take that chance.

You are being selfish.

I have to disagree with you. Asking a 7 year old to make an adult decision isn't necessarily wise. Let them stay little.

QFT Thank you.

rml_16

1. Yes, they know he isn't their biological father.
2. I don't want them to meet him at all.

What your saying is I should let him back into their lives after 10 and 7 years of not caring enough to make a phone call?

Why are you so afraid to give the children a choice? This is THEIR decision. You can explain things to them. They know he hasn't been around. They may very well have no interest in seeing him. But they have a RIGHT to that decision. They have a RIGHT to meet their father if they choose to.

You should be there. It should be in public and supervised and they should be aware that he may disappear on them again, given his history. They should be prepared for the worst. But they have a right to decide they want to take that chance.

You are being selfish.

I have to disagree with you. Asking a 7 year old to make an adult decision isn't necessarily wise. Let them stay little.

I think there's a way to do both. I don't think it's fair to keep something like this from them, even at 7 and 10.

UrbanLotus

My only question with this thread is how many of you have actually experienced something like this?

Anyone can say he has rights because his is their bio but it will always come down to what is best for the children!

I don't have kids myself, but I'm an attorney and have handled many custody, support, visitation etc cases. Luckily domestic relations courts are all about what is best for the children as well - and overall the courts believe that, barring any extraordinary circumstances, children should have visitation with their parents.

I've seen too many cases like this, where a mom wants to prevent the dad from seeing the kids...its funny how they don't think about this when they get pregnant by these losers!

UrbanLotus

He is their father. Like it or not, if he wants to be in their life, until they are old enough to say otherwise, he has every right to see his kids.

QFT

BS

He may have a legal right in the eyes of the course-that he provided sperm. But he does not have "Every right to see his kids" He is not their father- he is the sperm donor.

I would agree- do nothing except hire a lawyer and get your T's and I's all straightened out and let him come to you. Ignore the letter- be as legal as possible. Sure he MAY have changed (DOUBTFUL with the timing of parole and the letter- smacks of manipulation more than anything else)... but he has to prove that. Writing one little measly letter at the time of his parole doesn't support that at all- if anything it supports the opposite- if he had truly changed- he would be writing more constantly trying to make amends and plead his case.

OP get a lawyer- Protect yourself- protect your family.

Its not BS, its the truth. As you said, he does have the legal right to see them, so I'm not sure what you mean by saying he does not have every right to see them. The legal right is all that matters - if she wants to exercise her moral rights and they are in opposition to his legal rights, she will find herself in jail for contempt. All that matters here is the legal issue, and there is no question about that.

She won't find herself in jail for contempt until the man files for visitation, and THEN, she denies him. He has never exercised his legal rights to these kids, and until he does, the custodial parent doesn't have to do a thing.

I am aware of that, I am talking about legal rights v. moral rights or whatever it is you mean when you say "he does not have "Every right to see his kids"." Why fight him on this when he is going to get visitation anyway? Be the bigger person, and let your children see that you weren't fighting their dad on visitation - the kids will often come to resent you for this.

rml_16

The bottom line is, eventually these children are going to know their father made an attempt to be a part of their lives. Whether he means it is up for debate and remains to be seen. But how do any of you think they'll feel when they find this out and realize their mother kept him away without even asking what they wanted?

I have a LOT of absentee father experience. My daughter knew pretty early on what she wanted in that area and hasn't changed her mind and she IS an adult now. She can never come to me and say, "I didn't have this opportunity because of you." And she doesn't have any regrets.

stylistchicky

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread but, I would think you can't keep them from seeing them, but you and your girls have rights too. We are not talking about a upstanding citizen to society, criminal history, dead beat dad, not trying to have a relationship until now. I would be suspicious of his motives. Also he should have to have to prove himself capable of caring for the kids while he is with him. I would be scared to death to send my kids off with a man who they don't know, and is on parol. He should have to prove himself worthy.
Good luck my dear. Children are so delicate and protecting them is your main concern. I had a friend in prison. I remember him telling me "a man gets to thinking in prison, he has nothing else to do...and you get desperate for connections because prison is lonely." That came to mind reading your post. He could have other motives here.

UsedToBeHusky

He is their father. Like it or not, if he wants to be in their life, until they are old enough to say otherwise, he has every right to see his kids.

QFT

BS

He may have a legal right in the eyes of the course-that he provided sperm. But he does not have "Every right to see his kids" He is not their father- he is the sperm donor.

I would agree- do nothing except hire a lawyer and get your T's and I's all straightened out and let him come to you. Ignore the letter- be as legal as possible. Sure he MAY have changed (DOUBTFUL with the timing of parole and the letter- smacks of manipulation more than anything else)... but he has to prove that. Writing one little measly letter at the time of his parole doesn't support that at all- if anything it supports the opposite- if he had truly changed- he would be writing more constantly trying to make amends and plead his case.

OP get a lawyer- Protect yourself- protect your family.

Its not BS, its the truth. As you said, he does have the legal right to see them, so I'm not sure what you mean by saying he does not have every right to see them. The legal right is all that matters - if she wants to exercise her moral rights and they are in opposition to his legal rights, she will find herself in jail for contempt. All that matters here is the legal issue, and there is no question about that.

She won't find herself in jail for contempt until the man files for visitation, and THEN, she denies him. He has never exercised his legal rights to these kids, and until he does, the custodial parent doesn't have to do a thing.

I am aware of that, I am talking about legal rights v. moral rights or whatever it is you mean when you say "he does not have "Every right to see his kids"." Why fight him on this when he is going to get visitation anyway? Be the bigger person, and let your children see that you weren't fighting their dad on visitation - the kids will often come to resent you for this.

I'm not advocating fighting visitation. But she won't be found in contempt until a court order exists. I'm advocating that she force him to get one if he really wants to see them. But I'm not the person who you were responding to either.

odusgolp

1. Yes, they know he isn't their biological father.
2. I don't want them to meet him at all.

What your saying is I should let him back into their lives after 10 and 7 years of not caring enough to make a phone call?

Why are you so afraid to give the children a choice? This is THEIR decision. You can explain things to them. They know he hasn't been around. They may very well have no interest in seeing him. But they have a RIGHT to that decision. They have a RIGHT to meet their father if they choose to.

You should be there. It should be in public and supervised and they should be aware that he may disappear on them again, given his history. They should be prepared for the worst. But they have a right to decide they want to take that chance.

You are being selfish.

I have to disagree with you. Asking a 7 year old to make an adult decision isn't necessarily wise. Let them stay little.

I think there's a way to do both. I don't think it's fair to keep something like this from them, even at 7 and 10.

There's a difference between letting the children say "Yes" or "No" to "Do you want to call your daddy?" and....

"Well, Bobby, your daddy hasn't paid child support for you, is an addict, hasn't cared about you for a second of his life, is in prison for shanking Mr. Jones in the jugular in 2006, and sucks in bed. Would you like to go see him in lock-up?"


I'm obviously using extremes for a reason. But my point being, children do not need to know any details. Parents are supposed to... parent. Make the hard decisions.

UrbanLotus

He is their father. Like it or not, if he wants to be in their life, until they are old enough to say otherwise, he has every right to see his kids.

QFT

BS

He may have a legal right in the eyes of the course-that he provided sperm. But he does not have "Every right to see his kids" He is not their father- he is the sperm donor.

I would agree- do nothing except hire a lawyer and get your T's and I's all straightened out and let him come to you. Ignore the letter- be as legal as possible. Sure he MAY have changed (DOUBTFUL with the timing of parole and the letter- smacks of manipulation more than anything else)... but he has to prove that. Writing one little measly letter at the time of his parole doesn't support that at all- if anything it supports the opposite- if he had truly changed- he would be writing more constantly trying to make amends and plead his case.

OP get a lawyer- Protect yourself- protect your family.

Its not BS, its the truth. As you said, he does have the legal right to see them, so I'm not sure what you mean by saying he does not have every right to see them. The legal right is all that matters - if she wants to exercise her moral rights and they are in opposition to his legal rights, she will find herself in jail for contempt. All that matters here is the legal issue, and there is no question about that.

She won't find herself in jail for contempt until the man files for visitation, and THEN, she denies him. He has never exercised his legal rights to these kids, and until he does, the custodial parent doesn't have to do a thing.

I am aware of that, I am talking about legal rights v. moral rights or whatever it is you mean when you say "he does not have "Every right to see his kids"." Why fight him on this when he is going to get visitation anyway? Be the bigger person, and let your children see that you weren't fighting their dad on visitation - the kids will often come to resent you for this.

I'm not advocating fighting visitation. But she won't be found in contempt until a court order exists. I'm advocating that she force him to get one if he really wants to see them. But I'm not the person who you were responding to either.

Sorry, didn't realize that wasn't you. LOL yes thank you, I have handled enough of these cases to know how contempt of court works. My point was that the other rights do not matter, and if he exercises his legal rights and she doesn't comply, she will be facing the consequences.

DashDeV

I'm not advocating fighting visitation.

Umm... what? lol

You were advocating having his parental rights taken away.

SpeSHul_SnoflEHk

OK. I will admit that I haven't read anything but the OP, and this may already have been mentioned, but ....


OP, why are you asking an internet forum for advice in legal matters. This is what it boils down to. You live somewhere that has a unique set of laws that govern paternal rights of visitation and custody. He is their father. What the law in your state says is what applies. You will need to comply.

The people who have the best training on how to navigate the laws and courts of your area are trained professional lawyers. It is not a bunch of people from various communities around the world who are trying to track their calories to achieve or mantain their fitness levels. Listening to lay people is likely to be counter to what you want to achieve here. That being said, you may not be able to get what you need anyway, and you shouid be ready to accept that.

UsedToBeHusky

Sorry, didn't realize that wasn't you. LOL yes thank you, I have handled enough of these cases to know how contempt of court works. My point was that the other rights do not matter, and if he exercises his legal rights and she doesn't comply, she will be facing the consequences.

Yeah, I missed that part. I just didn't want OP to think that she is legally required to give him something that he has not yet legally obtained.

UsedToBeHusky

I'm not advocating fighting visitation.

Umm... what? lol

You were advocating having his parental rights taken away.

Yes. If he wants to see the kids, then he would fight losing his parental rights, wouldn't he?

And honestly, the courts don't usually remove parental rights from a parent that is protesting, unless the state draws up the petition.

You should re-read the thread because you missed my initial post.

This was mine:

Personally, I wouldn't do anything.

Let him get his parole, get his life on track, hire himself an attorney, and pursue you for visitation legally. If he is willing to do all that, then he is worthy to be a father. Don't enable him. Don't facillitate him. Make him prove that he really wants to be a father. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time and energy, and your kids'.

Yes, he has legal rights to them, and he can exercise those rights, if he wants, but I would make him take you to court.

I also said that if she was going to attempt terminate his parental rights, that she should talk to the kids about it first.

DashDeV

I'm not advocating fighting visitation.

Umm... what? lol

You were advocating having his parental rights taken away.

Yes. If he wants to see the kids, then he would fight losing his parental rights, wouldn't he?

And honestly, the courts don't usually remove parental rights from a parent that is protesting, unless the state draws up the petition.

You should re-read the thread because you missed my initial post.

This was mine:

Personally, I wouldn't do anything.

Let him get his parole, get his life on track, hire himself an attorney, and pursue you for visitation legally. If he is willing to do all that, then he is worthy to be a father. Don't enable him. Don't facillitate him. Make him prove that he really wants to be a father. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time and energy, and your kids'.

Yes, he has legal rights to them, and he can exercise those rights, if he wants, but I would make him take you to court.

Some_Watery_Tart

OP, I have been in a similar situation. The situation continues to be...well...complicated. But I have confidence that my kids are going to be ok. Here is what I've learned:

1. I have to do what is right for my children. If I don't know what that is, I need to seek advice from legal professionals and therapists. Everyone else is too emotionally involved--especially me.

2. My children want to have a relationship with their father, and they have come to love him--and that's ok. Making them feel guilty for feeling that way is not ok. I must mind what I say to them on the subject. Any negativity about their dad will translate to them feeling guilty for their feelings, who they are, and where they come from. I chose their father, not them.

3. My children may resent me for whatever decisions I make. They may resent me for making them eat their veggies! I have to accept that and still do what is right. I'm the mom. This is my burden.

We are not the people you should get advice from. Throw it all out (mine included) and go find an expert! Good luck to you!

Alex_is_Hawks

I will also inform them that I have spent the last x amount of years protecting them and doing what I saw was best. It is not healthy for them to be around drug users and drinkers. Their biological father was almost stabbed to death at a party he was at. What if my children had been their? I don't know who is there or what they are doing. I have felt like I have been able to keep them from a life of abuse, negligence, possible rape, introductions to who knows what kinds of drugs up to this point.

I will also explain that I almost lost my youngest because he beat me pretty badly because he showed up at my house stoned out of his mind and angry because a different car was in my drive way. (I had just got a new car.)

You can't do that.

I'm sorry but you can't. You have no right to color your childs mind with your experiences with that man. I'm not saying he's good or great or even decent. But frankly those experiences are YOURS and not theirs. You can't give them those "memories" and tell them they should form opinions about a man that may never show them that side.

Most court orders and custody agreements have it specifically detailed that you are not allowed to speak badly of the other parent, you are not allowed to detrimentally affect their relationship with the children.

You choose to tell your kids this and help them formulate an opinion on a man they have never met and you will find yourself in more trouble with the court than you want.

I don't like my daughters biological dad, he is not a great dad. He hurts her feelings, he fails at things, he upsets her. But I NEVER EVER speak ill of him or tell her about times he treated me ill or did things I did not like or approve of. I DO however console her when he's less than ideal and help her talk through HER experiences with me.

Don't do this. I understand you are angry, upset and bitter...and you are if you feel you need to color your children's mind on this matter...you just are....but the moral and responsible adult just lets their children know that it didn't work between you two and that there were reasons that only adults need to know for why it didn't work. This isn't protecting them, this is blackballing him.

That's all.

wildheart_cowgirl

Both parents, regardless of their stature in the community have what is call "Parental Rights". That term has a lot of meaning without throwing a few definitions in here. Every parent has the right to be a parent to a child to include even seeing the child without obstacles.

You know why he was in prison and the reasons if that was really bad (Physical felony), or not so bad (White collar felony). If it is the extreme and that is what concerns you, great, that is what parents do... Watch out for the safety of their children always. Legally, you should not be able to hinder his visitation or talk with his children. However if you are concerned, then you need to visit the courthouse or lawyer and setup supervised visitation. You cannot withhold your children from the other parent without legal ramifications.

You have to be the strong one and allow the visits, phone talks, emails or whatever to take place. You do not want to be the one later in life that your children may turn on for providing any sort of alienation against the other parent. No one wins.

You could try counseling. However, in the end you really have to ask yourself are you comfortable with whatever decision you made because you really think it is the right one to make or because it is easier for you and your husband, not having to deal with the emotional upheaval that establishing a relationship with the children's biological father could entail?

SemperAnticus1643

I will also inform them that I have spent the last x amount of years protecting them and doing what I saw was best. It is not healthy for them to be around drug users and drinkers. Their biological father was almost stabbed to death at a party he was at. What if my children had been their? I don't know who is there or what they are doing. I have felt like I have been able to keep them from a life of abuse, negligence, possible rape, introductions to who knows what kinds of drugs up to this point.

I will also explain that I almost lost my youngest because he beat me pretty badly because he showed up at my house stoned out of his mind and angry because a different car was in my drive way. (I had just got a new car.)

You can't do that.

I'm sorry but you can't. You have no right to color your childs mind with your experiences with that man. I'm not saying he's good or great or even decent. But frankly those experiences are YOURS and not theirs. You can't give them those "memories" and tell them they should form opinions about a man that may never show them that side.

Most court orders and custody agreements have it specifically detailed that you are not allowed to speak badly of the other parent, you are not allowed to detrimentally affect their relationship with the children.

You choose to tell your kids this and help them formulate an opinion on a man they have never met and you will find yourself in more trouble with the court than you want.

I don't like my daughters biological dad, he is not a great dad. He hurts her feelings, he fails at things, he upsets her. But I NEVER EVER speak ill of him or tell her about times he treated me ill or did things I did not like or approve of. I DO however console her when he's less than ideal and help her talk through HER experiences with me.

Don't do this. I understand you are angry, upset and bitter...and you are if you feel you need to color your children's mind on this matter...you just are....but the moral and responsible adult just lets their children know that it didn't work between you two and that there were reasons that only adults need to know for why it didn't work. This isn't protecting them, this is blackballing him.

That's all.

That conversation was for a later date if they ever asked what happened and why we weren't together. My oldest daughter was also 3 years old and witnessed the whole beating scene. She also saw my face that was bruised and swollen and she understood that it hurt. Those are her experiences with him.

Alex_is_Hawks

I will also inform them that I have spent the last x amount of years protecting them and doing what I saw was best. It is not healthy for them to be around drug users and drinkers. Their biological father was almost stabbed to death at a party he was at. What if my children had been their? I don't know who is there or what they are doing. I have felt like I have been able to keep them from a life of abuse, negligence, possible rape, introductions to who knows what kinds of drugs up to this point.

I will also explain that I almost lost my youngest because he beat me pretty badly because he showed up at my house stoned out of his mind and angry because a different car was in my drive way. (I had just got a new car.)

You can't do that.

I'm sorry but you can't. You have no right to color your childs mind with your experiences with that man. I'm not saying he's good or great or even decent. But frankly those experiences are YOURS and not theirs. You can't give them those "memories" and tell them they should form opinions about a man that may never show them that side.

Most court orders and custody agreements have it specifically detailed that you are not allowed to speak badly of the other parent, you are not allowed to detrimentally affect their relationship with the children.

You choose to tell your kids this and help them formulate an opinion on a man they have never met and you will find yourself in more trouble with the court than you want.

I don't like my daughters biological dad, he is not a great dad. He hurts her feelings, he fails at things, he upsets her. But I NEVER EVER speak ill of him or tell her about times he treated me ill or did things I did not like or approve of. I DO however console her when he's less than ideal and help her talk through HER experiences with me.

Don't do this. I understand you are angry, upset and bitter...and you are if you feel you need to color your children's mind on this matter...you just are....but the moral and responsible adult just lets their children know that it didn't work between you two and that there were reasons that only adults need to know for why it didn't work. This isn't protecting them, this is blackballing him.

That's all.

That conversation was for a later date if they ever asked what happened and why we weren't together. My oldest daughter was also 3 years old and witnessed the whole beating scene. She also saw my face that was bruised and swollen and she understood that it hurt. Those are her experiences with him.

once they are adults, they will be able to form their own opinion, but before they are adults, please re-read the section above which I will repost here:

Most court orders and custody agreements have it specifically detailed that you are not allowed to speak badly of the other parent, you are not allowed to detrimentally affect their relationship with the children.

You choose to tell your kids this and help them formulate an opinion on a man they have never met and you will find yourself in more trouble with the court than you want.

odusgolp

I will also inform them that I have spent the last x amount of years protecting them and doing what I saw was best. It is not healthy for them to be around drug users and drinkers. Their biological father was almost stabbed to death at a party he was at. What if my children had been their? I don't know who is there or what they are doing. I have felt like I have been able to keep them from a life of abuse, negligence, possible rape, introductions to who knows what kinds of drugs up to this point.

I will also explain that I almost lost my youngest because he beat me pretty badly because he showed up at my house stoned out of his mind and angry because a different car was in my drive way. (I had just got a new car.)

You can't do that.

I'm sorry but you can't. You have no right to color your childs mind with your experiences with that man. I'm not saying he's good or great or even decent. But frankly those experiences are YOURS and not theirs. You can't give them those "memories" and tell them they should form opinions about a man that may never show them that side.

Most court orders and custody agreements have it specifically detailed that you are not allowed to speak badly of the other parent, you are not allowed to detrimentally affect their relationship with the children.

You choose to tell your kids this and help them formulate an opinion on a man they have never met and you will find yourself in more trouble with the court than you want.

I don't like my daughters biological dad, he is not a great dad. He hurts her feelings, he fails at things, he upsets her. But I NEVER EVER speak ill of him or tell her about times he treated me ill or did things I did not like or approve of. I DO however console her when he's less than ideal and help her talk through HER experiences with me.

Don't do this. I understand you are angry, upset and bitter...and you are if you feel you need to color your children's mind on this matter...you just are....but the moral and responsible adult just lets their children know that it didn't work between you two and that there were reasons that only adults need to know for why it didn't work. This isn't protecting them, this is blackballing him.

That's all.

That conversation was for a later date if they ever asked what happened and why we weren't together. My oldest daughter was also 3 years old and witnessed the whole beating scene. She also saw my face that was bruised and swollen and she understood that it hurt. Those are her experiences with him.

That still never makes it right to tell them everything about his dark past.

You seem to be missing your whole entire part of the responsibility here. You chose him and allowed this all to happen. You are now playing the martyr. If you can change and learn (you were stupid, right???) perhaps others can too... such as their father.

And once they're "much older" they can figure out what they want and how they feel about him on their own.

Just food for thought.