Asked for help, REFUSED! *rant*
Replies
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Thanks for the informed comment size10again. Are you a professional in this area?
I guess they must be going off that tier thing. And that is what frustrates me, I dont want special medical help, I want that teit lifestyley, public health stuff. Apart from being more positive, it is also more sustainable because it gives real long term strategies for life, not just acute medical care. I really feel this approach would be best for me.
I don't think people are out to get me, promise, I just think I am being prevented from accessing services I feel I could really benefit from.
Is it possible that you may actually need acute medical care so you are able to make sustainable changes and have them be a part of your long term strategies?
I'm not a doctor but I think long term approach is better. My immeidate health is actually OK, it is the future I worry about, which is why I feel I need a sustainable life long appraoch.
rml_16, you are being presumptious and unfair. That's OK (I will just skim over it)
Thanks to the few people above me who give really helpful, understanding yet honest answers, I really value that.0 -
I dont want special medical help
It's not a matter of what you want or don't want. It's what you need. You need to be on a doctor supervised diet and light exercise program. There are factors at play that a basic lifestyle group cannot safely address.
Just because you are consulting a doctor does not automatically mean you have to go for lap band surgery, if that's your concern. You can state categorically that you do not want surgical intervention.
After a couple of years on a properly supervised diet and exercise plan, you'll be in good enough shape to drop into a more conventional support group. And they will be able to help you from there.0 -
It is their organization and if those are their rules, they have to go by them. It seems maybe with your BMI at 60 they are afraid to offer advice or give workout info because they are not qualified to instruct severely obese people and afraid they may hurt you. I mean no harm by that just being honest.0
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My initial reaction would be to feel offended, as well. But then again, as others have stated it may be a combination of liability, keeping up with the class, etc. Their recommendation to go to the hospital, no I wouldn't be too pleased with that response either. There are other groups and organizations out there. You just have to do some research. And actually, some are run through hospitals so it's something to check into regardless of your attitude towards it.0
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It is known.I don't need sarcastic comments about yachts or whatever, seriously.
You're determined to be idignant about this instead of trying to understand the reasoning.
^ Yup.
Seriously, you bring nothing to this conversation at all. Go away and let the adults talk, I am trying to get advice from sensible people here.0 -
I'm sure their recommendation to seek help at the hospital was purely due to liability issues. Try not to take it personally.
This. Their INSURANCE likely set the rules, and they should have explained to you that their liability is extremely limited when it comes to morbid obesity. You do need help, but at such a massive BMI you need medical help beyond the scope of which they can offer.0 -
Thanks for the informed comment size10again. Are you a professional in this area?
I guess they must be going off that tier thing. And that is what frustrates me, I dont want special medical help, I want that teit lifestyley, public health stuff. Apart from being more positive, it is also more sustainable because it gives real long term strategies for life, not just acute medical care. I really feel this approach would be best for me.
I don't think people are out to get me, promise, I just think I am being prevented from accessing services I feel I could really benefit from.
A tier 3/4 service will give you all the lifestyle advice as well as many other things that you may not get from the group such as specialist assessments regarding diabetes and heart health etc.
This is the service spec for a Tier 2 service (which from the sounds of it I very much suspect you went to see), and somewhere in there it'll probably say what the cut off point is for people for whom the interventions are best suited. So it's not the the staff don't want you or rejected you, I think they just feel that they're not cut out to deal with needs that may exceed that spec.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/142723/Weight_Management_Service_Spec_FINAL_with_IRB.pdf
Yes I was involved with the Obesity Care Pathway in my local area, but I was in Wales then and thinds work slightly differently as Health is devolved to the Welsh Assembly Government, but much is very similar to England.
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/888/page/52135
So where I work Our tiers were:
Level 1: Community based prevention and early intervention (self care)
Level 2: Community and primary care weight management services
Level 3: Specialist multi disciplinary team weight management services
Level 4: Specialist medical and surgical services.
I reckon from what the member of staff said to you, your Tier 3 service is based in a clinical / hospital setting. That's probably because they will need to have access to all kinds of clever machinery that you can't get into a community centre.
Please don't be offended by being told you need the team "the next floor up"
it's all in the interest of you getting the best possible service for you. Do yourself a favour and check them out. :flowerforyou: 0 -
At your current BMI, you are a health risk to yourself. Do you workout now? You don't need a gym. Just make your own exercise routine and stick with it--wall push ups, walking, using hand weights (pantry items are a good substitute), leg raises sitting in a chair, moving to music, etc. Monitor your food intake. And when your BMI is at a low enough level and you're hopefully injury free and still healthy, go back to the place and ask again.
I'm 5' tall. I used to weigh 255. My BMI was about 52%. It's now around 37%. I'm down to 194 with around 125 my ultimate goal--I'm almost half way there! I just started watching my intake and moving more. Now I'm able to do more physical activities. You don't need a fancy gym to do it.0 -
Is it not fair because they helped you reach a BMI of 61 and now it's their responsibility to help you get it under control? It's not fair because you, personally, feel that it's not fair because now you want to do something and they won't "let" you? It's not fair because you don't like your other options, so who cares what their insurance costs are, their guidelines are, what they are set up to handle and who they have their plans designed to accommodate....nope, none of that matters because you want this and since you can't have this...it's just not fair? It's not fair because, somehow, you're exempt from other people's rules just because you think you should be?
Please, help me understand how this is not fair. Help me understand how you seem to be entitled to a program, one in which you apparently don't qualify, just because you think you should be.
No, i do not think it is their responsibility, it is mine. And the way in which I am taking responsibilty is, among other reasons, seeking helfpul advice and support. I think it is unfair because i beleive it would help me, and also that I would not harm the group (i am sure I could in fact be as valuable member as all the others), so there seems not very good reasosn to exclude me, is my view.
My comment aboutthe yacht means, I don't need sarcasm and nastiness, like I wasn't looking for that at all. Can't stop you doing it, but it brings nothing at all to the conversation, all I can do it ignore it, you wasted your own time even typing it.
Apparently not...you commented.
Besides, all we hear from you is "I" this or "me" that. You have no concept of what other people want or need. The program wasn't designed for you, there are other options, pick one of those. Your ticker shows you lost a decent amount of weight already, is what you're doing not working anymore?
Maybe a hospital plan is what you need, maybe there is an outpatient plan where you will get help with nutrition planning and exercise, maybe they will monitor your overall health as you make progress and then make suggestions for changes if they are needed. Have you even considered looking into the hospital option? Do you know all they offer at the hospital?
You don't "need" sarcastic comments, but you also don't need people to coddle you and tell you that you have every right to be upset when, in fact, you don't. You asked for help, you don't meet their criteria for offering you help, end of story. It happens every single day, in every country around the world, for almost every situation. You are no different. Leave your pity party, step off your soapbox, dismount your high horse and go find a program that you qualify for and that will be beneficial for you.0 -
:flowerforyou:
It is known.I don't need sarcastic comments about yachts or whatever, seriously.
You're determined to be idignant about this instead of trying to understand the reasoning.
^ Yup.
Seriously, you bring nothing to this conversation at all. Go away and let the adults talk, I am trying to get advice from sensible people here.
I offered the same advice and explanation as everyone else. You dismissed it all in anger and indignation.
The truth is difficult to take. Your weight has gotten so out of control that it is a liability for a weight loss organization outside of a hospital to help you. Being angry at the organization isn't going to fix the problem. It's misplaced.0 -
I suggest you go back for more info, maybe the reasoning is sound - ask and you just might change your mind about this rule being unfair.
Also ask what the BMI limit is, then ask if you can only participate in the nutrition & lifestyle portion until you reach the acceptable BMI.
Never take no for an answer. Seek compromise. There are always alternatives.
Tell em you know me.0 -
I'd say **** 'em. You don't need people like that. Exercise with friends & people that will support you not degrade you. They could turned you down in a more considerate way.0
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If it were me....and it was the only thing in town other than the hospital, I would ask if I could just attend the healthy eating classes and not do the exercise part. You can get partial support that way, and when you get down to a lower BMI you can ask again about the exercise classes.
Agreeing that liability is probably the issue here. Stupid lawyers!0 -
I dont want special medical help
It's not a matter of what you want or don't want. It's what you need. You need to be on a doctor supervised diet and light exercise program. There are factors at play that a basic lifestyle group cannot safely address.
Just because you are consulting a doctor does not automatically mean you have to go for lap band surgery, if that's your concern. You can state categorically that you do not want surgical intervention.
After a couple of years on a properly supervised diet and exercise plan, you'll be in good enough shape to drop into a more conventional support group. And they will be able to help you from there.
This x10!
No one will make you get a weight loss surgery if you don't want it. But, because of how much you need to lose, a more specialized approach (a medical pro vs a group) is preferred. Sure, it sucks. Sure it feels like no one wants to help. But people do want to help, you just have to open the right door.0 -
WHY? Is it tht they think I am beyond 'normal' help and interventions? That I would not keep up wth the class, physically or mentally? What is it?
You got it at the beginning.
I'm sorry this is so painful. I would be humiliated and furious. But probably, yes, that's why.0 -
And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that. 0
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Have you ever heard of TOPS?0
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And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Don't mind me, just coveting your national health care system...
*fans self*0 -
I agree it is most likely liability.
I know you said you shouldn't have said a BMI of 40 was a minor problem but that was your first gut reaction and kind of proves their point, they are simply not equipped to handle higher BMI regardless of liability, training etc. they are different issues and do require different approaches, medical supervision etc.
The only way you would have a legit complaint is if they had people of similar size and said no to just you.0 -
A BMI of 40 is not a 'minor weight problem.'0
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So just to clarify, when they say you need to go to hospital, it doesn't mean all your treatment will take place their and that you're some kind of lost cause. Not at all.
It just means that the specialist multi-disciplinary team best cut out to assist you are based there that is all. Much of your treatment is likely to be based in the community or a dietitian seeing you at home etc.0 -
OP I think you are trying to read 'RUDE' and 'MEAN' into something that isn't there. It was just another way to look at it.
RML is a very nice person (I know her from way way back at another message board would curl your toes with rude and mean).0 -
I dont want special medical help
It's not a matter of what you want or don't want. It's what you need. You need to be on a doctor supervised diet and light exercise program. There are factors at play that a basic lifestyle group cannot safely address.
Just because you are consulting a doctor does not automatically mean you have to go for lap band surgery, if that's your concern. You can state categorically that you do not want surgical intervention.
After a couple of years on a properly supervised diet and exercise plan, you'll be in good enough shape to drop into a more conventional support group. And they will be able to help you from there.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. I believe this group simply lacks the resources to properly address your needs safely.0 -
And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Don't mind me, just coveting your national health care system...
*fans self*
Well obviously we all pay for it out of our taxes so it's not strictly FREE, but you know what I mean. 0 -
Thanks for the informed comment size10again. Are you a professional in this area?
I guess they must be going off that tier thing. And that is what frustrates me, I dont want special medical help, I want that teit lifestyley, public health stuff. Apart from being more positive, it is also more sustainable because it gives real long term strategies for life, not just acute medical care. I really feel this approach would be best for me.
I don't think people are out to get me, promise, I just think I am being prevented from accessing services I feel I could really benefit from.
Is it possible that you may actually need acute medical care so you are able to make sustainable changes and have them be a part of your long term strategies?
I'm not a doctor but I think long term approach is better. My immeidate health is actually OK, it is the future I worry about, which is why I feel I need a sustainable life long appraoch.
rml_16, you are being presumptious and unfair. That's OK (I will just skim over it)
Thanks to the few people above me who give really helpful, understanding yet honest answers, I really value that.
1. You are right, you are not a doctor and just because you think your approach is better, does not mean it to be true. You say your immediate health is ok and it is the future you are worried about, so what is the big deal about receiving medical care? And receiving a medically supervised program to get you into the category that would make you qualified to join the group you are upset about right now?
2. You might want to be careful about skimming over comments because you could miss some really useful information.
3. It sometimes helps to listen to all answers to make an informed decision. There is value in that.0 -
I'm sure their recommendation to seek help at the hospital was purely due to liability issues. Try not to take it personally.
This ^^^^0 -
I know it is entitle to make it's own rules but I just think those rules are not fair. I don't want to have to go to a hospital to get help, I want help in that kind of setting. I really feel I would benefit from it, so I don't know why I can't. I think I could keep up because I have as good brain as anyone and I always try my best. I don't know why they assume I couldn't. I don't know that there are any other groups out there, this is the main local organisation for this sort of thing. It's just really frustrating
I don't assume they are out to get me, I just feel it's not fair.
I am going to say it:
LIFE IS NOT FAIR.
ETA and your immediate health is NOT ok. Your BMI is 61. This is not OK. Please seek doctor supervision as recommended.0 -
No offense but 40 BMI is not considered a minor weight problem. That is considered obese. 60 is extremely high and morbidly obese.
Exactly! At my heaviest (238 pounds) my BMI was 46.5 Minor? Really? I was on 2 different medications* to deal with the health issues triggered by my obesity! It wasn't minor at all. Yes, compared to someone twice that weight I looked and was in better condition but I was pummeling towards death's door.
*I'm off them now Yay!
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Thanks for the informed comment size10again. Are you a professional in this area?
I guess they must be going off that tier thing. And that is what frustrates me, I dont want special medical help, I want that teit lifestyley, public health stuff. Apart from being more positive, it is also more sustainable because it gives real long term strategies for life, not just acute medical care. I really feel this approach would be best for me.
I don't think people are out to get me, promise, I just think I am being prevented from accessing services I feel I could really benefit from.
A tier 3/4 service will give you all the lifestyle advice as well as many other things that you may not get from the group such as specialist assessments regarding diabetes and heart health etc.
This is the service spec for a Tier 2 service (which from the sounds of it I very much suspect you went to see), and somewhere in there it'll probably say what the cut off point is for people for whom the interventions are best suited. So it's not the the staff don't want you or rejected you, I think they just feel that they're not cut out to deal with needs that may exceed that spec.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/142723/Weight_Management_Service_Spec_FINAL_with_IRB.pdf
Yes I was involved with the Obesity Care Pathway in my local area, but I was in Wales then and thinds work slightly differently as Health is devolved to the Welsh Assembly Government, but much is very similar to England.
http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/888/page/52135
So where I work Our tiers were:
Level 1: Community based prevention and early intervention (self care)
Level 2: Community and primary care weight management services
Level 3: Specialist multi disciplinary team weight management services
Level 4: Specialist medical and surgical services.
I reckon from what the member of staff said to you, your Tier 3 service is based in a clinical / hospital setting. That's probably because they will need to have access to all kinds of clever machinery that you can't get into a community centre.
Please don't be offended by being told you need the team "the next floor up" it's all in the interest of you getting the best possible service for you. Do yourself a favour and check them out. :flowerforyou:
Thank you for your really helpful knowledge xx I guess I could see about looking into it when you out it that way, but I hope I can have some consultation were i can tell them i really want all the lifestyly stuff also because that is what I think is best help.
Thanks for everyone who give me really useful information and help.
I don't accept these people who trying to make me feel bad, and saying stuff like 'you've got your wieght so out of control' and stuff to shame me. I don't feel ashamed. I HAVE ACTUALLY ALREADY LOST A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WEIGHT and looking into this because i want to continue to progress with this. I am really PROUD of myself, nothing you can do to chnge it ok.0 -
And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Don't mind me, just coveting your national health care system...
*fans self*
Well obviously we all pay for it out of our taxes so it's not strictly FREE, but you know what I mean.
I do! Everyone paying into something to reap the benefits?? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS??
*resists urge to comment more* 0
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