Saying No to Vaccinations

Holly_Roman_Empire

I can see why a lot of people are for it, and it is a wonderful invention, for the people it works for.
But my family, me, my mother, her grandmother. Any time any of us got a flu shot. We got the flu. And when we didn't? We didn't get as sick. We still got the flu, but we weren't down-and-out like we were after the flu-shots. And the flu never lasted as long, generally a day or two with fever, and done. After flu shots, the flu would last about a week before breaking.

Now, please don't get me wrong, Vaccines are amazing things, but again, they don't work for everyone.

You're right, they don't work for everyone. You can blame the reason your family got the flu on other folks you were around that DIDN'T get vaccinated. This is why it's so important that EVERYONE get vaccinated.

Guess what; if all 580 million people in north america got a predicted flu cocktail, people would still get sick BECAUSE THE COCKTAIL IS A GUESS.

Last year they had 135 million doses available, at a cheap rate of $15 each, that's over $2 billion for big pharma - just on flu shots. Wonder how much of that the Drs got for pushing it on the weak? Makes me sick thinking about it; maybe there's a shot for that too.

I really think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that pharmaceutical companies don't make money off of it.

Actually I think you are. My point is, if there was no money to be made (people would stop taking the flu shot), they wouldn't produce it no matter how effective it was. Or to simplify even further- they only do it for the money. They don't care about your health.

It's nice to see the benefits of Capitalism at work isn't it? Beats living in Sub-Saharan Africa where hundreds of thousands die of African Sleeping Sickness because it is not profitable to find either a vaccine or a decent treatment for it.

Your responses make me smle. :-D

QuietBloom

Just confirmed on you tube there is a doctor saying this and it was on the news. There were no diesases in North America
till the white men invaded. The natives were healthy and lived natural. So they needed vaccines then? But check you tube a doctor is saying what I said. So go argue with the doctors.

No diseases you say? Au contrare. Many diseases:

Cancer
Rabies
Iron deficiency anemia
Tuberculosis
Venereal Diseases
Osteomyelitis
Osteoarthritis
etc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071659/

But did you learn that from a doctor on YouTube?

Oh man, you got me there! :sad:

FrenchMob

I've never gotten the flu shot and have never gotten the flu *knock on wood*. I don't see why I need to start now :ohwell: But that's just me...

To protect those around you.
I am like you. I've never gotten the flu, and I never got the shot until I was forced to in the military. Now I get the vaccine every year because I educated myself on why it's important .

I like that little cut down at the end. I also educated myself, and chose not to get the flu shot. You should have said:
"... I educated myself on why it's important FOR MY SITUATION."

ldrosophila

Now, as I said, I have researched a ton, I am not just making an uneducated statement here. I believe that it is best to vaccinate for the really bad things. But, I feel it is better for a small child to get chicken pox, not the shot. Come 5 years old and time to go to school and she still never got the chicken pox, then she got vaccinated. Yes, I care about protecting other people's children but I still prefer that she had just gotten the pox.

You may have dont the best thing by vaccinating her against chicken pox, of course there is no real long term data yet because it's still a new vaccination, but you may have prevented your daughter from suffering from shingles. Good job Mom!

Alluminati

I can see why a lot of people are for it, and it is a wonderful invention, for the people it works for.
But my family, me, my mother, her grandmother. Any time any of us got a flu shot. We got the flu. And when we didn't? We didn't get as sick. We still got the flu, but we weren't down-and-out like we were after the flu-shots. And the flu never lasted as long, generally a day or two with fever, and done. After flu shots, the flu would last about a week before breaking.

Now, please don't get me wrong, Vaccines are amazing things, but again, they don't work for everyone.

You're right, they don't work for everyone. You can blame the reason your family got the flu on other folks you were around that DIDN'T get vaccinated. This is why it's so important that EVERYONE get vaccinated.

Guess what; if all 580 million people in north america got a predicted flu cocktail, people would still get sick BECAUSE THE COCKTAIL IS A GUESS.

Last year they had 135 million doses available, at a cheap rate of $15 each, that's over $2 billion for big pharma - just on flu shots. Wonder how much of that the Drs got for pushing it on the weak? Makes me sick thinking about it; maybe there's a shot for that too.

I really think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that pharmaceutical companies don't make money off of it.

Actually I think you are. My point is, if there was no money to be made (people would stop taking the flu shot), they wouldn't produce it no matter how effective it was. Or to simplify even further- they only do it for the money. They don't care about your health.

It's nice to see the benefits of Capitalism at work isn't it? Beats living in Sub-Saharan Africa where hundreds of thousands die of African Sleeping Sickness because it is not profitable to find either a vaccine or a decent treatment for it.

Holly_Roman_Empire

I've never gotten the flu shot and have never gotten the flu *knock on wood*. I don't see why I need to start now :ohwell: But that's just me...

To protect those around you.
I am like you. I've never gotten the flu, and I never got the shot until I was forced to in the military. Now I get the vaccine every year because I educated myself on why it's important .

I like that little cut down at the end. I also educated myself, and chose not to get the flu shot. You should have said:
"... I educated myself on why it's important FOR MY SITUATION."

It's not meant as an insult. She said she didn't know why she needed to start now, implying that she probably hasn't heard the pros and cons of each side. Upon educating myself, I chose one way. I simply stated a fact, and you chose to take it as something else.

perfect_storm

Do you know when you get the flu shot they are actually injecting the virus into you, and you get sick.
Everybody in my family got it, except me. Once you get it you always have to. They all get the flu, I
only get the flu like once every 5 years. People should let their bodies fight viruses off naturally, not
depend on shots.

Love this

rml_16

Now, as I said, I have researched a ton, I am not just making an uneducated statement here. I believe that it is best to vaccinate for the really bad things. But, I feel it is better for a small child to get chicken pox, not the shot. Come 5 years old and time to go to school and she still never got the chicken pox, then she got vaccinated. Yes, I care about protecting other people's children but I still prefer that she had just gotten the pox.

You may have dont the best thing by vaccinating her against chicken pox, of course there is no real long term data yet because it's still a new vaccination, but you may have prevented your daughter from suffering from shingles. Good job Mom!

My issue with this particular vaccine is exactly that they don't know yet how long it lasts. And chicken pox in an adult is far more deadly than in a child (less than 1%).

That vaccine came out when my daughter was little. It wasn't required yet. Every kid I knew then who got the vaccine got a hell of a case of the pox. My daughter actually caught chicken pox and didn't get the vaccine and she was less sick than the other kids and now she's immune.

Shingles sucks, for sure. But it isn't deadly.

I am iffy on this particular vaccine.

ldrosophila

I can see why a lot of people are for it, and it is a wonderful invention, for the people it works for.
But my family, me, my mother, her grandmother. Any time any of us got a flu shot. We got the flu. And when we didn't? We didn't get as sick. We still got the flu, but we weren't down-and-out like we were after the flu-shots. And the flu never lasted as long, generally a day or two with fever, and done. After flu shots, the flu would last about a week before breaking.

Now, please don't get me wrong, Vaccines are amazing things, but again, they don't work for everyone.

You're right, they don't work for everyone. You can blame the reason your family got the flu on other folks you were around that DIDN'T get vaccinated. This is why it's so important that EVERYONE get vaccinated.

Guess what; if all 580 million people in north america got a predicted flu cocktail, people would still get sick BECAUSE THE COCKTAIL IS A GUESS.

Last year they had 135 million doses available, at a cheap rate of $15 each, that's over $2 billion for big pharma - just on flu shots. Wonder how much of that the Drs got for pushing it on the weak? Makes me sick thinking about it; maybe there's a shot for that too.

I really think you're missing the point. No one is arguing that pharmaceutical companies don't make money off of it.

Actually I think you are. My point is, if there was no money to be made (people would stop taking the flu shot), they wouldn't produce it no matter how effective it was. Or to simplify even further- they only do it for the money. They don't care about your health.

It's nice to see the benefits of Capitalism at work isn't it? Beats living in Sub-Saharan Africa where hundreds of thousands die of African Sleeping Sickness because it is not profitable to find either a vaccine or a decent treatment for it.

this and the reason why Malaria is still such a killer in a country that should be the richest in the world, but that's another topic

ldrosophila

Shingles sucks, for sure. But it isn't deadly.

I am iffy on this particular vaccine.

No but it can disfigure and debilitate someone.

Ladydrake12

Fact: 100% of people who get vaccines die. SCIENCE!

SRH7

And whierd... can you even understand how idiotic your high school level taunts are? I feel truly sorry for anyone who finds amusements throwing out insults like you do.

Hey now, don't go off on wheird...he's the only reason I read these threads. Not just for his amusing one liners, but because he actually gives well thought out responses. The guy is my hero...well my MFP hero anyway.

:laugh:

Who said there was hate on this thread? All I can see is a lot of

Yep, love. Lots of love for people I care about. Enough so that I get vaccinated to protect them.

:flowerforyou:

rml_16

Shingles sucks, for sure. But it isn't deadly.

I am iffy on this particular vaccine.

No but it can disfigure and debilitate someone.

But how often does that happen?

Holly_Roman_Empire

Fact: 100% of people who get vaccines die. SCIENCE!

This made me lol.

ldrosophila

first world problems

gabbygirl78

I don't know, I think my son either became autistic after the MMR vaccine, or during pregnancy when I worked as a correctional officer. While working the overnight shift and sometimes having to work doubles, I would only bring enough food from home for one shift and was not expecting to have to pull a double. Often times, I would get so hungry while working the overnight shift that I had to eat a sack lunch sometimes, that they would prepare for the inmates leaving for work. The sack lunch contained the worst kinds of foods that the average person would not eat. There was an apple and a packet of peanut butter, and some bologna with two slices of bread. I remember rinsing the bologna off real good and putting it in the microwave till it popped and eating the non-organic, highly pesticide-filled red apple that came with it, along with peanut butter on the top. My other theory for my son coming up autistic is that during my pregnancy, I had a threatened miscarriage with him and I had to be rushed to the emergency room because I was bleeding. He turned out to be okay, but maybe it caused brain damage that caused his autism. Maybe, I am secretly half-autistic myself, since I am extremely shy in person, and socially awkward and I passed on a gene to him. I don't know. However, I was vaccinated as a child, and although I consider myself kind of weird, I turned out fine. I have gotten the flu vaccine for him and myself and we have never gotten the flu. But a lot of my neighbors told me to stop vaccinating, since my son was autistic. I was like, "What difference does it make, he already has autism, so what is not vaccinating him going to prevent or prove?"

Your sons autism isn't the result of vaccinations, bologna, or the apple. I am sorry, but it was another reason.

Agreed!!!! They need to find something else to blame autism on... before we start having out breaks of measles and such... oh silly me... it's already started! Simple VACCINATE YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!

just_Jennie1

You really think Big Farma and the FDA has everyone's best interests at hear?

I don't give a crap who makes money but when there's kickbacks going around to the pharmaceutical companies for writing out prescriptions that aren't needed then I have a problem with that. When the FDA approves drugs, puts them on the market and has a whole list of side effects -- 'FATAL EVENTS MAY OCCUR' -- then yes, I have a problem with it.

One should not die, get cancer, TB, or any other disease because they took a medication to stop a disease.

At least there's someone else with common sense in here.

Oh goodie, what's a post about disease treatment/prevention without some good fear mongering thrown in?

Oh goodie! What's a post about disease treatment/prevention without someone going back to the beginning and reading what was originally posted and what perpetuated the above comments.

And as for the fear mongering: Really? You honestly have never actually listened to an ad for some sort of medication and heard the list of side effects that you need to watch out for? My favorite one being the "fatal events" that may occur.

ldrosophila

Shingles sucks, for sure. But it isn't deadly.

I am iffy on this particular vaccine.

No but it can disfigure and debilitate someone.

But how often does that happen?

no data but the patients I've seen it in is very sad and sucks their quality of life for a long time

TaxPrepLiz

And let's say for giggles that vaccines cause autism. It seems the anti vaxxers would rather their kid risk a terrible illness and die, rather than have autism but still be alive? Boggles my brains.

^^Exactly this! I have a 12yo and I would rather have her alive and autistic than dying from a preventable disease.

rml_16

Shingles sucks, for sure. But it isn't deadly.

I am iffy on this particular vaccine.

No but it can disfigure and debilitate someone.

But how often does that happen?

no data but the patients I've seen it in is very sad and sucks their quality of life for a long time

I believe that. I just ... I don't know. If as an adult I'd never gotten chicken pox, I would get the vaccine for sure. Still undecided about kids.

My grandfather has had shingles and while it was painful for a few days, it only happened once or twice and he could function fine.

So there's a small number of people who get the shingles and an even smaller number who are that adversely affected by it.

I'm not saying other people shouldn't get their kids this particular vaccine or even that I'm totally against it (it doesn't matter, anyway, at this point since I won't be having more kids). I'm just on the fence about it as being necessary.

littlenature

You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!

MissStatement

I'll take my chances thank you.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/abstract

"Flu Vaccines Prevent the Flu in Only 1.5% of Adults

A new study in The Lancet Infectious Diseases reveals that the flu vaccine prevents lab confirmed type A or type B influenza in only 1.5 out of every 100 vaccinated adults … but the media is reporting this to mean "60 percent effective."

It is estimated that, annually, only about 2.7% of adults get type A or type B influenza in the first place. The study showed that the use of flu vaccines appear to drop this down to about 1.2%. This is a roughly 60% drop, but that ignores the fact that the vaccine has no protective health benefit for 97.5% of adults.

The researchers' own conclusions are also somewhat more lackluster in their tone than the media would have you believe:

"Influenza vaccines can provide moderate protection against virologically confirmed influenza, but such protection is greatly reduced or absent in some seasons. Evidence for protection in adults aged 65 years or older is lacking.""

NaturalNews is not exactly unbiased, and they misinterpreted the actual study:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlipson/2013/02/04/how-effective-is-the-flu-shot/

The findings from the abstract:

We screened 5707 articles and identified 31 eligible studies (17 randomised controlled trials and 14 observational studies). Efficacy of TIV was shown in eight (67%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 59% [95% CI 51—67] in adults aged 18—65 years). No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 2—17 years or adults aged 65 years or older. Efficacy of LAIV was shown in nine (75%) of the 12 seasons analysed in ten randomised controlled trials (pooled efficacy 83% [69—91]) in children aged 6 months to 7 years. No such trials met inclusion criteria for children aged 8—17 years. Vaccine effectiveness was variable for seasonal influenza: six (35%) of 17 analyses in nine studies showed significant protection against medically attended influenza in the outpatient or inpatient setting. Median monovalent pandemic H1N1 vaccine effectiveness in five observational studies was 69% (range 60—93).

This doesn't disprove what I originally posted. It still shows a sucky effectiveness. You also forgot the last part;

"Influenza vaccines can provide moderate protection against virologically confirmed influenza, but such protection is greatly reduced or absent in some seasons. Evidence for protection in adults aged 65 years or older is lacking. LAIVs consistently show highest efficacy in young children (aged 6 months to 7 years). New vaccines with improved clinical efficacy and effectiveness are needed to further reduce influenza-related morbidity and mortality."

You originally posted that 1.5% bull**** statistic, when the true efficacy is around 59% depending on the year. I agree that is "moderate" protection from the flu, and that vaccines can be improved, but that's a far cry from your suggestion that only 1.5% of the population is protected by the shot. That is simply false.

As to the sentence "Evidence for protection in adults age 65 is lacking." Do you want to hazard a guess as to why? Never mind, I'll tell you. It's because the researchers could not find any randomized controlled studies on populations 65 and older, because giving a person age 65 years or older a placebo, which is against generally accepted medical advice, IS UNETHICAL. They didn't find any evidence because you can't develop a study that won't put a senior in possible harm's way.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/28/141800408/analysis-questions-flu-shot-effectiveness

gabbygirl78

Do you know when you get the flu shot they are actually injecting the virus into you, and you get sick.
Everybody in my family got it, except me. Once you get it you always have to. They all get the flu, I
only get the flu like once every 5 years. People should let their bodies fight viruses off naturally, not
depend on shots.

Love this

:huh: I'm with the cat on this one..... advice from a health care professional... educate yourself before spouting off what are obviously your own uneducated thoughts :noway:

gonnamakeanewaccount

I haven't read any of the above posts, but I am completely against the flu shot. I've gotten the flu each and every time I got the shot. No, I'm not talking about flu-like symptoms for maybe one or two days, I'm talking about the full-blown flu, fever and all for about a week or so.

rml_16

You're all mostly Americans, huh? While I'm definitely an advocate of vaccinations for children against serious diseases (MMR specifically), I really had no idea that it was the 'done' thing in the US for normal adults to get vaccinated against the seasonal flu. In the UK, only certain at risk groups receive this vaccination, for example, the elderly, front line health care workers and the immune-suppressed. I don't think I've ever had the flu either. My flatmate had it last winter though and although he was bedridden for half a week, he got over it and I honestly had no idea that this was something people felt the need to be vaccinated against!

It isn't required for the general public, but it's offered.

whierd

I haven't read any of the above posts, but I am completely against the flu shot. I've gotten the flu each and every time I got the shot. No, I'm not talking about flu-like symptoms for maybe one or two days, I'm talking about the full-blown flu, fever and all for about a week or so.

I will make sure you burn for this.

srpm

There are pros and cons to all vaccinations, personally I am of the opinion that the only way herd immunity works is if the majority of the herd is vaccinated. This wouldn't be a big deal except there are lots of people who CAN'T be vaccinated for various reasons, and those are usually the people who most need to be protected against the types of diseases that we are vaccinated against. Therefore, even though the flu probably won't kill me, and I hate getting shots, every year I roll up my sleeve and deal with it so that if I happen to come in contact with someone who is immuno-suppressed for whatever reason I won't be the person who gives them the flu causing them to get even more sick. I fully intend to take the same approach with my own children, I may or may not use a modified/alternate vaccination schedule (I haven't done enough research on them yet to make that decision, I don't have kids yet either so I don't need to know what I'm going to do!) but my children will be fully vaccinated before they reach an age where they could expose others and make them very sick.


Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.[2] (Wikipedia)

Talako

Fact: 100% of people who get vaccines die. SCIENCE!

This is the same reason I don't eat carrots. Every single person that ate carrots in 1873 is now dead. Every single one of them.

I'm not taking any chances, so I just say no to carrots.

QuietBloom

You really think Big Farma and the FDA has everyone's best interests at hear?

I don't give a crap who makes money but when there's kickbacks going around to the pharmaceutical companies for writing out prescriptions that aren't needed then I have a problem with that. When the FDA approves drugs, puts them on the market and has a whole list of side effects -- 'FATAL EVENTS MAY OCCUR' -- then yes, I have a problem with it.

One should not die, get cancer, TB, or any other disease because they took a medication to stop a disease.

At least there's someone else with common sense in here.

Oh goodie, what's a post about disease treatment/prevention without some good fear mongering thrown in?

Oh goodie! What's a post about disease treatment/prevention without someone going back to the beginning and reading what was originally posted and what perpetuated the above comments.

And as for the fear mongering: Really? You honestly have never actually listened to an ad for some sort of medication and heard the list of side effects that you need to watch out for? My favorite one being the "fatal events" that may occur.

Have you seriously never read the pamphlet that has come with ANY prescription you have ever received (including your birth control)? By law, every and any possible side effect MUST be listed. You can thank the FDA for that. I can only think you have NOT ever read a pamphlet of side effects, if you have this kind of a reaction to these ads.

Holly_Roman_Empire

There are pros and cons to all vaccinations, personally I am of the opinion that the only way herd immunity works is if the majority of the herd is vaccinated. This wouldn't be a big deal except there are lots of people who CAN'T be vaccinated for various reasons, and those are usually the people who most need to be protected against the types of diseases that we are vaccinated against. Therefore, even though the flu probably won't kill me, and I hate getting shots, every year I roll up my sleeve and deal with it so that if I happen to come in contact with someone who is immuno-suppressed for whatever reason I won't be the person who gives them the flu causing them to get even more sick. I fully intend to take the same approach with my own children, I may or may not use a modified/alternate vaccination schedule (I haven't done enough research on them yet to make that decision, I don't have kids yet either so I don't need to know what I'm going to do!) but my children will be fully vaccinated before they reach an age where they could expose others and make them very sick.


Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.[2] (Wikipedia)

You're my hero. :-D