Calories in calories out
Replies
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There is no debate. Its not black and white. It doesn't always work because its not always 100% accurate. All health issues are not always taken into an account. Now in a PERFECT world where no one has health problems and every single BODY runs the exact same SURE it works 100% of the time, but that isn't reality. Sorry to tell you.
Your argument is equivalent to claiming quantum mechanics is wrong because it was really hard to find the Higgs boson.
Calories in, calories out is correct, for ALL bodies under ALL health issues and ALL scenarios. The fact that it can occasionally be challenging to get accurate and precise measurements in no way invalidates it.
PERFECT!!! Kudos to you. Well said. Extra awesome bonus points for quantum mechanics reference.0 -
The bigger people I know that are 300 pounds dont eat ANYWHERE near 3000 plus calories a day like the internet says it takes for them to maintain that weight....
When I was 300 pounds, I easily ate 3000 calories in a day.
When I first started MFP, out of curiosity, I logged a meal I used to eat several times a week just to see how many calories it was. Rice and beans and chicken and cheese and avocado and sour cream and corn and did I mention cheese? Yeah so, that ONE meal was over 1200 calories. It was all in one big bowl and...it didnt look like that much to me. (in retrospect it was a rediculous amount) Now, add the bagel with cream cheese I had for breakfast, the bag of Doritos I had for snack, the big sandwich I had for lunch, the other snacks I had before dinner and then a couple of desserts...yeah, 3000 EASY.
I already lost 40 pounds this year, I understand portions, I understand how to read labels, I understand how to make a calorie deficit. I make one daily and that WORKS for me. But it doesn't work for everyone. This topic is not a reflection of myself, I am not a 300 pound person eating whatever they want and crying I cant lose weight. What I am saying is, that it doesn't always work that easily for everyone.
Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
Anyone with a medical condition who is obese that has done everything and went to the doctor and its PROVEN to not work? Yeah okay they people dont exist in fantasy land were cico works 100% of the time.0 -
So if we accept the fact that there are super skinny girls who cant eat whatever they want and not gain a pound why cant the reverse be true?
Yeah, I'm not accepting that.
Hundreds of actresses and models claim that they 'eat whatever they want and just can't put on weight'.
So many of them end up saying later that they were eating ice cubes and tissues or a whole head of lettuce as a meal. Or just not eating at all.
But I did find this experiment pretty interesting - a guy spent 42 days eating 5,000 cals a day. 21 days were high carb, low fat and 21 days were high fat low carb.
http://live.smashthefat.com/why-i-didnt-get-fat/0 -
In for the math ... and science :flowerforyou:
You're in the wrong place. Nothing going on here but people letting themselves get trolled.
Kinda hard to come to any other conclusion.:laugh:0 -
I work at a Panera Bread and we definitely have some healthy and unhealthy options. We have regulars who are fitness freaks and look lean as hell and we have regulars that look like they may keel over of a heart attack at any time. I have made it a habit to note what these "regulars" order - in fact I have been very observational about what everyone eats since I starting getting healthy.
The truth is simple I have found - Those that are thin and healthy looking simply eat less calories. I wanted to believe that my obesity was not my fault - that I was simply had bad genetics. I found that even though I do have a harder time losing weight than some, I was eating so much more than I thought I was. To address your point, I was eating a lot of these calories when no one was looking.
I'd say for the vast majority of people, calories in/calories out is a method that works! Even for me, someone without a thyroid. Deal with that harsh reality sucka!0 -
Me too. Where'd you get that?This *must* be trolling at this point. I quit. no one can possibly be this obtuse. You keep stating that you're 100% sure you know how many calories your sister eats, but offer no explanation for its possibility, despite your claims that you've done extensive research on the subject.
It's been fun, but I can't argue with this level of absurdity.
Here's a parting gift.
I'm Canadian so I am so in.
I found it in my stocking a few Christmas' ago. I think my wife got it from a local candy store.
They can be found on Amazon for like $0.99 apiece.
I will warn you. They are N-A-S-T-Y. Taste like Bacos (tm) and sugar-free syrup. Awesome in theory, wretched in execution.0 -
In for the math ... and science :flowerforyou:
You're in the wrong place. Nothing going on here but people letting themselves get trolled.
Or bored people.
Yes, bored people trying to avoid getting up for a snack! :laugh: Too bad I'm not one of those people who can eat 4000 calories a day and stay skinny.
You lost 110 pounds I dont think you stayed skinny
Considering that she said she's NOT one of these people, I'm not sure what the point of this nasty comment is.
PS: I report people. Suck it.
Well of course you report people look at you
I'm unsure of what this is supposed to imply about me (I look like the sort of person who reports people? I mean...I just said I do. So I guess that's true?), so I'm having a hard time feeling insulted.
But, just so we're clear, resorting to insults doesn't change the fact that you still failed to read that poster's comment correctly. Here, I'll bold it for you.Yes, bored people trying to avoid getting up for a snack! :laugh: Too bad I'm not one of those people who can eat 4000 calories a day and stay skinny.0 -
There is no debate. Its not black and white. It doesn't always work because its not always 100% accurate. All health issues are not always taken into an account. Now in a PERFECT world where no one has health problems and every single BODY runs the exact same SURE it works 100% of the time, but that isn't reality. Sorry to tell you.
Your argument is equivalent to claiming quantum mechanics is wrong because it was really hard to find the Higgs boson.
Calories in, calories out is correct, for ALL bodies under ALL health issues and ALL scenarios. The fact that it can occasionally be challenging to get accurate and precise measurements in no way invalidates it.
Saying ALL over and over again wont make it MORE scientifically accurate. Because it isn't. It does NOT work with all health issues and body types. Sorry to break it to you.
You have yet to name 1 issue or body type that causes weight to be maintained while in a deficit or prevents gains while in a surplus.... because you can't.... because it doesn't exist.... because science.
Google is your friend, you can find the huge list of medical conditions that have been SCIENTIFICALLY proven yourself.
And off I go hunting unicorns :flowerforyou:0 -
In for the math ... and science :flowerforyou:
You're in the wrong place. Nothing going on here but people letting themselves get trolled.
Or bored people.
Yes, bored people trying to avoid getting up for a snack! :laugh: Too bad I'm not one of those people who can eat 4000 calories a day and stay skinny.
You lost 110 pounds I dont think you stayed skinny
Considering that she said she's NOT one of these people, I'm not sure what the point of this nasty comment is.
PS: I report people. Suck it.
Well of course you report people look at you
lolwut?
So, you join a calorie counting site (one of 3 that you are apparently on), accuse members of being snarky, and then make comments like the one above?
People are very odd sometimes.
I report people, too. :flowerforyou:0 -
I work at a Panera Bread and we definitely have some healthy and unhealthy options. We have regulars who are fitness freaks and look lean as hell and we have regulars that look like they may keel over of a heart attack at any time. I have made it a habit to note what these "regulars" order - in fact I have been very observational about what everyone eats since I starting getting healthy.
The truth is simple I have found - Those that are thin and healthy looking simply eat less calories. I wanted to believe that my obesity was not my fault - that I was simply had bad genetics. I found that even though I do have a harder time losing weight than some, I was eating so much more than I thought I was. To address your point, I was eating a lot of these calories when no one was looking.
I'd say for the vast majority of people, calories in/calories out is a method that works! Even for me, someone without a thyroid. Deal with that harsh reality sucka!
I lose weight using a calorie deficit. I am also not obese nor was I ever like "QQ i AM FAT because of genetics", no I was fat because I ate tons of fast food and drank 2500-3000 calories of pepsi a day. BUT I had ate like that my whole life, grew up eating tons of crap. When i was a teen I was 5'8 125 pounds and I stayed the same weight for like 6 years before I started gaining in my 20s. I gained 60 pounds in1 year, went to the doctor, had my thyroid checked and indeed had low levels, I had a scan and have a nodule on my thyroid, I get it biopsy once a year but its not cancer they just need to check it. I take pills and have been able to lose weight. I know with age your metabolism slows and you gain faster, but as a teenager I ate whatever I wanted and sat in my room smoking weed, drinking and playing ps1 and diablo. I wasn't active. It wasn't until my mid 20s that I developed a thyroid problem that I gained EVERYTHING i should of been from eating. Yea it was my ****ty eating habits, but I had always ate that way and stayed the same weight.0 -
Apparently this is a forum full of cry baby narcs tattle telling because I was "mean to them on the internet" to the mods. HAHAHA come on put on your big boy pants and grow a pair. Oh noes she was abrasive, guess I should flag her comment even though I was just as abrasive and rude in my last post...Its alright though....lol
The problem is, if people fought with you how they'd prefer to fight, they'd end up with strikes themselves and *poof* no more forums for them.
So best of luck with all of your fitness and health goals. :flowerforyou:
People were rude and abrasive. But you people on these calories sites are all the same, you are snaky, rude and often backhandedly insult people all while going "I was just giving advice I swear". You wont get in trouble because I dont waste my time reporting people...Like have you kids been to tumblr yet? Go there and get even more offended easily.
What do you mean, "you people"?
:huh:
I think OP means people who look like Walter White :laugh:0 -
In for the math ... and science :flowerforyou:
You're in the wrong place. Nothing going on here but people letting themselves get trolled.
Or bored people.
Yes, bored people trying to avoid getting up for a snack! :laugh: Too bad I'm not one of those people who can eat 4000 calories a day and stay skinny.
You lost 110 pounds I dont think you stayed skinny
Considering that she said she's NOT one of these people, I'm not sure what the point of this nasty comment is.
PS: I report people. Suck it.
Well of course you report people look at you
LOLwut? (again)
:huh:0 -
Could it be that this doesn't work on everyone? Clearly people have all kinds of health problems and ailments also from preventing this from always working.
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Have you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics...you're basically suggesting that there are magical people who are not subject to the laws of thermodynamics...
If someone is gaining weight they are consuming a surplus of calories...it matters not that they eat "healthy" or that they exercise...neither of those things guarantee a calorie deficit. In fact a lot of exercise and actual training can be counterproductive to weight loss in that when you're really training you're really hungry and tend to eat all the foodz.
There are medical conditions which can slow metabolism but it's still calories in/out...it's just that their metabolism would fall outside of the statistical averages that are used for these calculators. They'd have to have their metabolism medically tested.
[/quote]
I have tried the calories in calories out method for many years, it doesn't work for me. I do have a serious health condition, I have tried eating less, doesn't work, I have tried eating more, doesn't work. The only thing that works is figuring out what my body needs. For a while I needed to have everything high fibre and that worked, then it was everything high protein no matter what fat content and that worked, now I am at a plateau again. My profile says I have only lost 2kgs but in the last 7 years I have lost about 30 kilos and have gaained back a few that I now want to lose. I can't work out unless I feel well and that can go on for weeks at a time. I was also married to a Scientist. Don't throw thermodynamics in there and think that cos you used a technical term it makes you right. I am not trying to be mean or rude, but watch how you talk to people. Take a leaf out of your own book, you say people don't know what happens behind closed doors, well neither do you.0 -
The bigger people I know that are 300 pounds dont eat ANYWHERE near 3000 plus calories a day like the internet says it takes for them to maintain that weight....
When I was 300 pounds, I easily ate 3000 calories in a day.
When I first started MFP, out of curiosity, I logged a meal I used to eat several times a week just to see how many calories it was. Rice and beans and chicken and cheese and avocado and sour cream and corn and did I mention cheese? Yeah so, that ONE meal was over 1200 calories. It was all in one big bowl and...it didnt look like that much to me. (in retrospect it was a rediculous amount) Now, add the bagel with cream cheese I had for breakfast, the bag of Doritos I had for snack, the big sandwich I had for lunch, the other snacks I had before dinner and then a couple of desserts...yeah, 3000 EASY.
I already lost 40 pounds this year, I understand portions, I understand how to read labels, I understand how to make a calorie deficit. I make one daily and that WORKS for me. But it doesn't work for everyone. This topic is not a reflection of myself, I am not a 300 pound person eating whatever they want and crying I cant lose weight. What I am saying is, that it doesn't always work that easily for everyone.
Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
Anyone with a medical condition who is obese that has done everything and went to the doctor and its PROVEN to not work? Yeah okay they people dont exist in fantasy land were cico works 100% of the time.
Made up nonsense.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)0 -
[/quote]
And off I go hunting unicorns :flowerforyou:
[/quote]
Since there's no math or science, I'm in for unicorns!!
There ARE unicorns ...
right ??0 -
There is no debate. Its not black and white. It doesn't always work because its not always 100% accurate. All health issues are not always taken into an account. Now in a PERFECT world where no one has health problems and every single BODY runs the exact same SURE it works 100% of the time, but that isn't reality. Sorry to tell you.
Your argument is equivalent to claiming quantum mechanics is wrong because it was really hard to find the Higgs boson.
Calories in, calories out is correct, for ALL bodies under ALL health issues and ALL scenarios. The fact that it can occasionally be challenging to get accurate and precise measurements in no way invalidates it.
Saying ALL over and over again wont make it MORE scientifically accurate. Because it isn't. It does NOT work with all health issues and body types. Sorry to break it to you.
You have yet to name 1 issue or body type that causes weight to be maintained while in a deficit or prevents gains while in a surplus.... because you can't.... because it doesn't exist.... because science.
Google is your friend, you can find the huge list of medical conditions that have been SCIENTIFICALLY proven yourself.
And off I go hunting unicorns :flowerforyou:
Yes and while you are hunting unicorns you can find all the scientific evidence showing how flawed this is.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
Uhhh duhhhh. Lets completely deny the studies that have been done that show it doesn't work for everyone.0 -
I didn't read the entire thread, because it got to being too much re-quoting and headaching, but, I just wanted to add my .02, from personal experience.
As a lifetime fatty, I've had my times of eating, "right" or "healthy", like all supersized folks. I'm somewhere between 400 and 500lbs and I'm sure I was over 500lbs at one time. The one thing I can tell you about MY EXPERIENCE, is that until 2 weeks ago when I started legitimately logging everything, and weighing everything, I was eating 4x the calories I thought I was. Not a case of secret eating, not a case of binging, just self-delusion. Even when I still ate crappy food, I was making a conscious effort to eat less of it. For example, instead of getting 5 or 6 items at TacoHell, I'd get 3. Things like that. but, if you look at the $5 box, it's 900 calories...I never knew that until recently. Also, I discovered many things I was eating was waaaaay higher in calories than I thought. Now, I even log my gum. I was getting a hundred calories a day from GUM!!!!
I'm not saying it's for sure the case with your friend, but from my personal experience, a lot of the healthy food I thought I was eating was waaaaaay high in calories, even things that other people would comment about would still be way over the top. One thing to keep in mind, we all know about serving sizes, but keep in mind, on things like dressings and salad toppings, a serving size is usually 1-2 Tbls. 2 Tbls of ranch dressing doesn't go far on a big salad. I know when I used to eat ranch, or thousand island, I'd use half a bottle on a big salad.0 -
These studies show that balancing (calories in) and (calories out) don't work for people with a damaged central nervous system.Uhhh duhhhh. Lets completely deny the studies that have been done that show it doesn't work for everyone.
Are we supposed to believe that because this model of energy expenditure doesn't work for someone with a damaged hypothalamus that it is immediately flawed?
The calories in, calories out model, in its roots, is based on the laws of thermodynamics. If you have scientific evidence that shows the laws of thermodynamics are wrong, please take that evidence with you to the nobel committee so they can give you literally every science prize.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
See OP!!!! See how EASY that was.
Ok, now we have 1 condition that apparently fits the bill, i.e. hypothalamic obesity.0 -
This is one of those threads where I want to forget all about manners and forum rules, and potential strikes and really give OP a piece of my mind.
It would not be pretty and could make people cry.
But Christmas is so very close and i promised Santa I'd be good.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
Uhhh duhhhh. Lets completely deny the studies that have been done that show it doesn't work for everyone.
Ok, you're right... you were right all along... it only works for people who don't have hypothalamic obesity... which is literally 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+% of everyone everywhere. But there you go CICO is a myth, flawed nonsense, not science, thoroughly dis-proven.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
Uhhh duhhhh. Lets completely deny the studies that have been done that show it doesn't work for everyone.
Ok, you're right... you were right all along... it only works for people who don't have hypothalamic obesity... which is literally 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+% of everyone everywhere. But there you go CICO is a myth, flawed nonsense, not science, thoroughly dis-proven.
Its not a myth, its just not 100%0 -
santa baby, i forgot to mention one little thing, a ring...This is one of those threads where I want to forget all about manners and forum rules, and potential strikes and really give OP a piece of my mind.
It would not be pretty and could make people cry.
But Christmas is so very close and i promised Santa I'd be good.
and i dont mean on the phone...0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
Uhhh duhhhh. Lets completely deny the studies that have been done that show it doesn't work for everyone.
Ok, you're right... you were right all along... it only works for people who don't have hypothalamic obesity... which is literally 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+% of everyone everywhere. But there you go CICO is a myth, flawed nonsense, not science, thoroughly dis-proven.
Its not a myth, its just not 100%
So how does that explain your sister?
And you never did tell me how she arrived at her TDEE to tell you.0 -
This is one of those threads where I want to forget all about manners and forum rules, and potential strikes and really give OP a piece of my mind.
It would not be pretty and could make people cry.
But Christmas is so very close and i promised Santa I'd be good.
Who cries over the internet other than tumblr feminists?
I'd cry if she got banned over a silly thread like this.0 -
I didn't read the entire thread, because it got to being too much re-quoting and headaching, but, I just wanted to add my .02, from personal experience.
As a lifetime fatty, I've had my times of eating, "right" or "healthy", like all supersized folks. I'm somewhere between 400 and 500lbs and I'm sure I was over 500lbs at one time. The one thing I can tell you about MY EXPERIENCE, is that until 2 weeks ago when I started legitimately logging everything, and weighing everything, I was eating 4x the calories I thought I was. Not a case of secret eating, not a case of binging, just self-delusion. Even when I still ate crappy food, I was making a conscious effort to eat less of it. For example, instead of getting 5 or 6 items at TacoHell, I'd get 3. Things like that. but, if you look at the $5 box, it's 900 calories...I never knew that until recently. Also, I discovered many things I was eating was waaaaay higher in calories than I thought. Now, I even log my gum. I was getting a hundred calories a day from GUM!!!!
I'm not saying it's for sure the case with your friend, but from my personal experience, a lot of the healthy food I thought I was eating was waaaaaay high in calories, even things that other people would comment about would still be way over the top. One thing to keep in mind, we all know about serving sizes, but keep in mind, on things like dressings and salad toppings, a serving size is usually 1-2 Tbls. 2 Tbls of ranch dressing doesn't go far on a big salad. I know when I used to eat ranch, or thousand island, I'd use half a bottle on a big salad.
I agree that fast food is stupid. I can eat like 4 volcano tacos from taco bell they are so little and that is like 1k calories. You get 3 things at taco bell and eat 900 calories worth.
I understand portion size, I hate ranch dressing and clearly the back says "160 calories per serving" and the serving size is 2 tbls, but honestly 2 tbles of a thin dressing is enough for me.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
See OP!!!! See how EASY that was.
Ok, now we have 1 condition that apparently fits the bill, i.e. hypothalamic obesity.
BTW, OP... now if you seriously believe your sister is one of these people you should urge her to get her hypothalamus checked because it is very possible that she has a tumor. I am not being snarky. I would not wish that on anyone. Seriously, if you believe she maintains her weight despite a massive caloric surplus this is very possibly a sign of major medical issue.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955767Wrong, a caloric deficit does work for everyone. Show 1 properly documented case in all of history where it did not work... good luck.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12574189
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22577758
There are cases where people cannot lose weight even when balancing (calories in) and (calories out) due to having a damaged hypothalamus.
The more you know! :P
(I'm not disagreeing with you though, you are right for like 99.9% of the population)
See OP!!!! See how EASY that was.
Ok, now we have 1 condition that apparently fits the bill, i.e. hypothalamic obesity.
BTW, OP... now if you seriously believe your sister is one of these people you should urge her to get her hypothalamus checked because it is very possible that she has a tumor. I am not being snarky. I would not wish that on anyone. Seriously, if you believe she maintains her weight despite a massive caloric surplus this is very possibly a sign of major medical issue.
She does have medical issues, clearly thats why she eats freaking 4k calories a day and doesn't gain.0
This discussion has been closed.
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