Calories in calories out

YesIAm17

hmm googles "calories in calories out flawed" is in denial about the first 10 pages of articles and facts stated that clearly explains why this doesn't apply or work 100% of the time.

As it has been pointed out, if you damage your metabolism you may need a different amount of calories, therefore it doesn't work because you could think you need one amount but you could not be losing because of a damaged metabolism. 100% would be if their were ZERO variables, but since there are tons, its not black and white, the body is not a simple machine, people do not burn the same and it doesn't always work this simply.

Google 'aliens abducted me' and be in denial about the first 10 pages of articles and facts that clearly explain... oh wait. That would be dumb to think a google search proves anything.

Um, are you saying aliens don't abduct people? Because my sister in law was abducted and I used to live with her and I know it happened because we lived together.

My bad, if you lived with her and she claimed to be abducted, I stand corrected. Aliens abduct people, calories exist but don't exist (depending on how it fits with my argument at the time) and unicorns stole my cupcakes because I live with my cupcakes and they didn't haves sprinkles on them this morning but they do now.

Google unicorns and cupcakes and you'll be a believer too!

LOL. Put the calorie in a box. Schrodinger's calorie. Maybe it's there, maybe it's not. MEH!

You win the internet today



of course you also fail as science is not allowed in this thread :happy:

I think The Rock would support Rock Solid Science. If The Rock wants tp bring science into it... are you really gonna try to stop him?

Cindyinpg

I predict a the evils of sugar diatribe coming next... perhaps with a youtube link.

I'll take that bet. 5 dollars says it goes back to a general "whole foods" rant.

Hmm... yeah, could be.

jofjltncb6

How does this work when we have all known a 300 pound person who eats healthy and works an active job but still cant lose ? Like for example I have a friend who is an overweight nurse, she does zumba, eats salads and has a very active job (always on her feet) yet she is still large and has been since a child. Yet I have another friend whos a stay at home mom, 28 years old, eats nothing but fast food and is like 110 soaking wet. So if we accept the fact that there are super skinny girls who cant eat whatever they want and not gain a pound why cant the reverse be true? Why cant someone eat healthy, have a deficit and NOT lose? If a skinny girl can eat 4000 calories a day of fast food with out the calories in calories out applying why does it always 100% apply to overweight people? The bigger people I know that are 300 pounds dont eat ANYWHERE near 3000 plus calories a day like the internet says it takes for them to maintain that weight....

A good place to start would be in not accepting that "fact".

If you take in more calories than you burn, then you store it.

If you burn more calories than you take in, then you burn what you had previously stored.

Well since I have seen it over and over again first hand I will accept it.

So you know for a fact exactly how many calories 300lb girl was consuming vs burning? and exactly how many calories skinny girl was burning vs consuming? Really?

Yes these are people I know very well.

are these "salads" covered in mayo and cheese? lol

...but logged as "Lite Dressing - 1 Tsp" and "Shredded cheese - 1/4 serving".

Rawfoodsho

You know what, screw it. OP, you are totally right. Calories in vs calorie out totally isn't right. Your weight is actually determined by Renenet, the ancient Egyptian god of harvest and nourishment. She writes down (in hieroglyphics, with bad handwriting, in cypher) what you will weigh every single day. Whatever you eat has precisely jack squat to do with what you weight. Trying to screw with Renenet's decrees will always fail. Always.



Now that we've made OP feel better about whatever they were on about, let's turn our attention to any lurkers or googlers who may have stumbled upon this thread. Now, silent folks, you may have noticed that pretty much everyone disagrees with the OPs disbelief in calories in vs calories out. Contrary to what some more displeased members of the site would lead you to believe, this isn't because MFP is some cruel hive mind hell bent on making people feel stupid for the lulz. It is because calorie in vs calorie out is the most fundamental point to weight lose, weight maintenance, and weight gain.

Now, you may be wondering about things like hormonal resistances and metabolic rates and whatever it is you kooky kids have come up with with all your sciencings that might affect your weight loss rate. Surely those count, right? Of course they do, dear shy ones, of course they do. However, what they are is a modifier on our core cal in vs cal out equation. Please take note that c in vs c out is always listed as a comparison of variables, not of absolute figures. This is to account for the many, many differences between different people. So when someone tells you it's all about how much you vs how much you burn, they aren't dismissing any metabolic concerns you may have. They are pointing out that those concerns don't change hwat you have to do to lose, gain, or maintain weight; eta less/ as much/ more than what you use up by existing and doing whatever it is you do. You just may have been hit with a condition or (sadly for you) a set of conditions that results in you needing to eat even less than someone else to lose weight, even of your the same height, weight, gender, age, and activity level.

To determine if this is required of you, if life decided to be a bit mean to you on this, track what you eat. No eyeballing, now. No "forgetting" to write it down, we both know you didn't forget, now did you? Of course not. Keep accurate track of all of that. Now, and this is a bit trickier, but make your best effort, track your activity level. Do this for about a month. Now compare the two. What do the numbers predict will happen? What actually happened? If the numbers said you'd lose more than you did by a significant amount, eat less, or up your activity level. Repeat until the numbers are within about 2% or so of each other. If you had to do this a lot, see a doctor, because you really shouldn't need to do that so much, and that could indicate a medical problem.

Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.

It does work for everyone, because "calories in/calories out" (meaning calories taken in are either burned, expelled, or stored) is not just science, it's a truism, unless you think there are people whose bodies don't run on energy. Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times. It's a real pain that every year as a I get older I'm like to burn marginally fewer at-rest calories. If I get the flu or diarrhea, I may expel food without extracting the full caloric value. And of course online calculator, which rely on user-supplied data and only offer four or five specific points for activity level factors when common sense indicates that it's an analog scale and the vast majority of people will fall between predetermined points, are not going to be closer than the general ballpark, if that, in determining your TDEE or TDEE before exercise, as MFP does. It's a starting point. Measure, track, and over time you can maybe do the math yourself based on calories consumed and weight gained or lost to figure out your maintenance level, but even that is only going to be an estimate, because pretty much all of your exercise burns are estimates and unless you only eat food you've prepared yourself from whole foods, some of your calories consumed will be estimated. The fact that we have to rely on less-than-perfect data doesn't make the underlying equation that we're plugging the data into wrong.

Your body doesn't manufacture calories out of nowhere, nor does it whisk it them into nonexistence.

Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times.


^^ Meaning it is not 100% accurate.

Rawfoodsho

Yes aliens, vampires, big foot, I believe everything I read on the internet. I even believe all the scientific THEORIES, i hear that are not proven as fact. Just as crazy....

Gravity is a theory. Just sayin'.

You're unconvinced. We get it. You're wrong, but we get it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

And you are still in denial about the fact that you are not right.

Nah. I flex in the mirror and look at all the success my clients have and have much gratitude to science for getting it. Science helped me to help them. How are you helping your friends? That working out okay?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Ahh I get it. You come on a calorie counter website to reiterate that same brainwashed advices you learned at institution? Ahh college learned personal trainer. hahahahah. You are spoon fed false information to reiterate back to people. Your education is a joke.

Yep, that's how straw man arguments work. Don't be mad because I actually help people with correct information. Hatin' on me just shows your maturity level.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Spoon fed, inaccurate information? Oh ok

YesIAm17

Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times.


^^ Meaning it is not 100% accurate.

Except (and accept) that it is absolutely, irrefutably, 100% accurate that... if in deficit the body burns what is stored and... if in surplus it stores what isn't burned.

Overall your statements appeared to most, if not everyone, to be arguing against these basic facts.

Rawfoodsho

Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times.


^^ Meaning it is not 100% accurate.

Except (and accept) that it is absolutely, irrefutably, 100% accurate that... if in deficit the body burns what is stored and... if in surplus it stores what isn't burned.

Overall your statements appeared to most, if not everyone, to be arguing against these basic facts.

Basic facts that do not apply to every body type

YesIAm17

Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times.


^^ Meaning it is not 100% accurate.

Except (and accept) that it is absolutely, irrefutably, 100% accurate that... if in deficit the body burns what is stored and... if in surplus it stores what isn't burned.

Overall your statements appeared to most, if not everyone, to be arguing against these basic facts.

Basic facts that do not apply to every body type

Can you name one "body type" that does not burn fat stores when in a caloric deficit?

Can you name one "body type" that does not store fat or build muscle when in a caloric surplus?

runner_girl83

Then I doubt we have anything more to say to you.

Enjoy your "facts" :noway:

We need a "Like" button on MFP!

runner_girl83

Just want to say.. Sorry if this has already been suggested too.. Has your friend had her thyroid checked? Sometimes this can be the cause of metabolism being slow or too fast and can cause little or a lot of weight gain.

3foldchord

OP still has not told us the math.
The height of these people, how many calories a day they eat, everything they do all day that is burning calories. In lauding those NEAT things, which it am just learning about. My husband kicks and twitches his legs all day.,the crazy foot shake thing. Even when he sleeps. I read that adds to his calorie burn some.

Do these friends of the OP wear heart rate monitors? Do they weigh every morsel of food on a scale, is the OP in every room, car, bathroom, hallway with them every day recording every calorie that goes in and out?
Where are the numbers?
Just as OP has decided not to believe the math presented by those that say "calories in calories out." I won't be buying what OP says because I am not seeing actually documented math. That is one of the joys and freedoms of human life though, believing what we want, right?

Maybe that was not the point of the original post person anyway.
What was the original point?

YesIAm17

What was the original point?

They are right, we are wrong, science doesn't work unless it supports OP's opinions, etc. At least that is what I took away from it.

callie006

What was the original point?

They are right, we are wrong, science doesn't work unless it supports OP's opinions, etc. At least that is what I took away from it.

Also, we are all special snowflakes, and weight loss defies all human understanding. Maybe, that was just implied.

3foldchord

What was the original point?

They are right, we are wrong, science doesn't work unless it supports OP's opinions, etc. At least that is what I took away from it.

Also, we are all special snowflakes, and weight loss defies all human understanding. Maybe, that was just implied.

Ah yes. I see it now. They should have just written it like that.

DanIsACyclingFool

C'mon, guys, don't feed the trolls.

But if you do feed them, DAAAAAAYMN is it ever funny! I wasted a significant portion of my day reading all 10 pages. I couldn't put it down. It's too hilarious!

For me, the highlight was on Page 6. Silenceinspace's TL;DR.

Made me spit coffee on my monitor. Not exaggerating.

But set a good example for your kids. Don't feed the trolls.

nutmegoreo

C'mon, guys, don't feed the trolls.

But if you do feed them, DAAAAAAYMN is it ever funny! I wasted a significant portion of my day reading all 10 pages. I couldn't put it down. It's too hilarious!

For me, the highlight was on Page 6. Silenceinspace's TL;DR.

Made me spit coffee on my monitor. Not exaggerating.

But set a good example for your kids. Don't feed the trolls.

I think that's only after midnight...

ninerbuff

Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times.


^^ Meaning it is not 100% accurate.

But it's predictable. While it's never linear, one can go by averages to figure out if one is in calorie deficit/surplus or not. Your grasping at straws to form a debate.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

zyxst

What was the original point?

They are right, we are wrong, science doesn't work unless it supports OP's opinions, etc. At least that is what I took away from it.

Also, we are all special snowflakes, and weight loss defies all human understanding. Maybe, that was just implied.

And the human body does not (cannot) burn calories.

ninerbuff

Spoon fed, inaccurate information? Oh ok

Which information are you referring to? That calorie deficit isn't needed for weight loss? Or calorie surplus doesn't result in weight gain? Point out what information on this debate that I've stated as fact that's been spoon fed because I've never mentioned anything about diets, supplements or medication for weight loss.

Your turn.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

cupcakes_and_cardio

It could be many things. Thyroid is the first thing that comes to mind for someone who seems to do everything right and still can't lose. also, although the skinny girl may be able to eat what she wants, she's not healthy if she's eating fast food EVERYDAY and eating 4000+ calories.