Clean Eating Bashing?

supermuslimgirl

OK, so I read part of the first thread...didn't get through all 20 pages, lol. I'll just list my reason....

I was diagnosed with stage IV endometriosis last May. They have found that eating "clean" can help with the pain. So I've been trying it. It's WORKING. I notice when I fall off the wagon and eat crap food, I don't feel as well. I'm trying my best to eat clean at all times. Weight loss for me is just a bonus (I've lost 20lbs, but just started on MFP today, so started with today's weight)

I also think that eating 90/10 or even 80/20 isn't going to kill you. Judge for yourself. If you feel ok , i.e. not nauseous, bloated, or in pain, eating some "junk" and it makes you happy, GO FOR IT!

I have endometriosis too how horrible that pain is I am so glad this is working for you!!! Seriously I would eat rocks if it would help no matter what anybody said!

nytrifisoul

Why is this topic 2 threads long already. The original OP was obviously trolling everyone.

jonnythan

Pop tarts are not healthy..

ORLY?

waldo56

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

jofjltncb6

Why is this topic 2 threads long already. The original OP was obviously trolling everyone.

Some topics are bigger than just the OP...

...and the intended audience for this discussion certainly is.

jofjltncb6

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.

Confuzzled4ever

When did I make any kind of claim about the health benefits of a Pop-tart? They provide pretty good energy for a workout, other than that, they are an occasional treat. Exactly what am I biased about? The fact that I eat a whole foods diet, including grass fed meat, home grown produce, condiments like mayo and mustard that I make from scratch at home, home made scratch made bread, and then the occasional bowl of Ben & Jerry's to go with it? I'm confused as to what my bias is? Nobody tears down clean eaters here, clean eaters tear down everyone else. Look at your first sentence "Pop-tarts aren't healthy." Exactly what relevance does that even have to what I posted? It was simply an attack for the sake of an attack.

Would you tell a vegan to go eat a big ole steak and then bash them for saying they won't or don't eat that food and stating their reason why? Probably not. But you'll do it to those who eat clean, because we don't eat pop tarts (or whatever food you want to insert there). Pop tarts give me no energy. Pop tarts give me stomach aches. That's why I don't eat pop tarts. I'm not sure how it was an attack to say pop tarts are not healthy, pretty sure that's a fact. Plus, it's not presented as occasional. it's presented as just eat it and as if they are eaten all the time. I don't fault *you* for eating a pop tart, but telling a clean eater to eat them is just asking for an argument.

Phoenix_Warrior

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.

I'm having a mental meltdown as we type

ellaistooposh

There are people in every group of humans that bash others, think they're better, smarter than others. etc. It's human nature. Some of us suck.

jofjltncb6

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.

I'm having a mental meltdown as we type

Maybe it's caused by your diet. Are you consuming enough dietary fat?

tigersword

When did I make any kind of claim about the health benefits of a Pop-tart? They provide pretty good energy for a workout, other than that, they are an occasional treat. Exactly what am I biased about? The fact that I eat a whole foods diet, including grass fed meat, home grown produce, condiments like mayo and mustard that I make from scratch at home, home made scratch made bread, and then the occasional bowl of Ben & Jerry's to go with it? I'm confused as to what my bias is? Nobody tears down clean eaters here, clean eaters tear down everyone else. Look at your first sentence "Pop-tarts aren't healthy." Exactly what relevance does that even have to what I posted? It was simply an attack for the sake of an attack.

Would you tell a vegan to go eat a big ole steak and then bash them for saying they won't or don't eat that food and stating their reason why? Probably not. But you'll do it to those who eat clean, because we don't eat pop tarts (or whatever food you want to insert there). Pop tarts give me no energy. Pop tarts give me stomach aches. That's why I don't eat pop tarts. I'm not sure how it was an attack to say pop tarts are not healthy, pretty sure that's a fact. Plus, it's not presented as occasional. it's presented as just eat it and as if they are eaten all the time. I don't fault *you* for eating a pop tart, but telling a clean eater to eat them is just asking for an argument.

NOBODY tells clean eaters to eat them. When people ask whether they have to eat clean or not, yo get the kind of conversation I posted. Nobody ever tells someone that chooses to eat clean that they can't or shouldn't do it.

And as Waldo said, overall diets are healthy or unhealthy, individual foods cannot be, as foods don't exist in a vacuum, and there is not a single food on this planet that will actually provide every single nutrient a person needs to be healthy on its own.

jonnythan

When did I make any kind of claim about the health benefits of a Pop-tart? They provide pretty good energy for a workout, other than that, they are an occasional treat. Exactly what am I biased about? The fact that I eat a whole foods diet, including grass fed meat, home grown produce, condiments like mayo and mustard that I make from scratch at home, home made scratch made bread, and then the occasional bowl of Ben & Jerry's to go with it? I'm confused as to what my bias is? Nobody tears down clean eaters here, clean eaters tear down everyone else. Look at your first sentence "Pop-tarts aren't healthy." Exactly what relevance does that even have to what I posted? It was simply an attack for the sake of an attack.

Would you tell a vegan to go eat a big ole steak and then bash them for saying they won't or don't eat that food and stating their reason why? Probably not. But you'll do it to those who eat clean, because we don't eat pop tarts (or whatever food you want to insert there). Pop tarts give me no energy. Pop tarts give me stomach aches. That's why I don't eat pop tarts. I'm not sure how it was an attack to say pop tarts are not healthy, pretty sure that's a fact. Plus, it's not presented as occasional. it's presented as just eat it and as if they are eaten all the time. I don't fault *you* for eating a pop tart, but telling a clean eater to eat them is just asking for an argument.

If the vegan says they don't want to eat steak because steak causes Alzheimer's, then, yes, I will criticize them.

And if the vegan tries to tell someone else not to eat steak because it'll give them Alzheimer's, then, yes, I will criticize them.

Eat what you want. No one cares. The problem is telling other people things that are untrue.

Sarauk2sf

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

^^yep.

I gave a short quote from Eric Helms on the prior thread. Here is this full quote (with sections re behavioral aspects excluded as slightly off topic), which tries to explain exactly the above:

"The Myth of “Good” and “Bad” Foods

I think one of the most pervasive, and possibly detrimental mind sets is that of seeing foods as either “good” or “bad”. This is a rather seductive way of looking at foods because it is simplistic. Look at a food, identify it as friend or foe, and then go with the “good” option not the “bad” option and you’ll be healthy, fit, lean and sexy! It’s that easy! But of course, that’s not the case.

<snip>.....All or nothing Black and white mindsets ignore the concepts of magnitude and frequency which are all important when it comes to long term change. Of course 1g of sugar eaten every 2 weeks will not have the same effect as 100g of sugar eaten daily, but we love to label sugar as “bad”. Even water consumed in massive excess can lead to hyponatremia and death. Sugar is not good or bad, and neither is water, they just are what they are and without attention to magnitude or frequency, labels like “good” or “bad” are misleading.

<snip>...There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.

Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food. Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!"


http://dynamicduotraining.com/wordpress/15-nutrition-myths-you-want-to-knowallow-the-experts-to-tell/

Phoenix_Warrior

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are.

Nor are they unhealthy.

An IIFYM person would say that the healthiness of a particular item, or lack thereof, is itself a myth. Only a diet can be healthy or unhealthy, that trait cannot be applied to an individual food item (barring allergies or other acute toxicity).

This is not that hard to grasp. Heath food is a myth. So is junk food.

I bolded the line with which I disagree. Based on this thread alone, it appears to be very difficult for many.

I'm having a mental meltdown as we type

Maybe it's caused by your diet. Are you consuming enough dietary fat?

I eat avocados regularly but I think my mochas are canceling them out. It's the debil sugar

waldo56

And as Waldo said, overall diets are healthy or unhealthy, individual foods cannot be, as foods don't exist in a vacuum, and there is not a single food on this planet that will actually provide every single nutrient a person needs to be healthy on its own.

Cow's milk, an unclean food by many definitions, is probably the closest (I believe it has the iron that human breast milk lacks, no?)

VEGGGA

bump for later. Thanks!

jonnythan

"Clean eating" is a too-simplistic view that acts as a crutch for people who cannot think very well on their own.

wheird

In for pseudoscience, butthurt, and shower references.

Iron_Feline

I don't feel like the "clean eaters" want the rest of the world to accept their point of view. They have a point of view and they don't expect you to agree with it, they just don't want you to belittle them or their point of view in the process.

At it's base, that seams like a reasonable request. In reality, it's not.

If this was the case, there would be a lot less arguing. Unfortunately, the discussion almost invariably goes like this:

Clean Eater: "I eat clean because it's SOOO much better for your health."

IIFYM: "I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but once my nutritional needs are met, I also find room to enjoy a bowl of ice cream or a Pop-tart."

Clean Eater: "POP-TARTS ARE POISON! ENJOY YOUR CANCER YOU STUPID #$!@#$#!!"

That's usually why "clean eaters" tend to have less than positive reputations here.

:

Pop tarts are not healthy.. I don't even think an iifym person would try to say they are. But you are clearly biased.. as a lot of times it's not "after I've met my nutritional needs" It's simply eat the ice cream because you have room for it! It took me a long to to figure out what the heck iifym meant because it's not explained properly or at all in a lot of cases. at least when someone talks about eating clean they tell you what they mean. Whether or not you agree is a totally different issue. and that is what starts it. A person says here's what clean eating is.. and we all know that the next clean eater will say.. no it's this.. it's personal, based on a persons goals and dietary needs and beliefs. It's very frustrating to have your diet ripped apart and questioned. I'm sure for both sides. But it happens more, from what i see, to clean eaters then any other group on here.

ETA: Besides if a person is trying to follow a clean diet and asks about eating a certain food. it might be more helpful to tell them that this food is not considered a clean food and if they want to eat it that badly they probably need to rethink their diet of choice. Just a suggestion.. Might avoid all the bashing and arguments that inevitably follow. (or not?) lol If you ask me why i eat clean or what my idea of clean is I will tell you. You don't have to like it or agree. That's the beauty of it all.

you are all over the place with that post.


1) at least when someone talks about eating clean they tell you what they mean

Wait so there is no actually definition of clean eating - it's just up to you as to how you define it.


2) A person says here's what clean eating is.. and we all know that the next clean eater will say.. no it's this

OK - so yeah - it's just based on what you decided is clean or dirty


3) Besides if a person is trying to follow a clean diet and asks about eating a certain food. it might be more helpful to tell them that this food is not considered a clean food

Since clean eating is different to each person how can you tell someone if their food is not considered clean? I thought you said it was personal?


I found IIFYM very easy to understand, no food is the devil, plan your food so you hit your macros and micros then if there are still calories to be eaten eat them however you please. More chicken and veg if you want or pop tarts and ice cream if that is your thing. Simples.

Oh and I tried clean eating for a month ages ago - and felt no different at all. According to a lot of clean eaters I should have felt reborn. But I just missed pizza and ice cream.

And again for the record, nobody gives a crap, really, what you eat. It is when you* tell people that they aren't healthy / don't care about their health / will get cancer / won't lose weight etc etc if they don't eat clean that you* bashed.

* you = clean eaters that say these things. Just like the Op did on the first page of the original thread.

ajaxe432

Lets take a fitness approach....would an athlete training for an event....Lets say Michael Phelps (or anyone you choose) be better eating a so called "clean diet" or would he just train eating a not so clean diet (fast food)? Just want to see everyones opinions:)