Women, why must it be so?

GiGiBeans

It's actually pretty simple, you need to worship us.

^This.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Actually the dude is right. I was wrong. Women on average get paid $0.77 per $1. BUT when you do compare the same job, it's $0.91 for $1.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

But the 91 percent statistic suggests a much more complicated set of problems. Is it that women are choosing lower-paying professions or that our country values women’s professions less? And why do women work fewer hours? Is this all discrimination or, as economist Claudia Goldin likes to say, also a result of “rational choices” women make about how they want to conduct their lives.

biorach

We still get paid, on average, less than men for doing the same job. $0.77 for every dollar a man gets.

This is a generalization (not a case by case). Also, "Women own 65% of the entire wealth of the United States and spend 85 cents of every dollar."
Don't reply... just let that sink in.

Women are more likely to be valued on appearance than men. How many girls would rather be "hot" (i.e. do-able by men) than smart or successful?

Also, a generalization. Most men are criticized on their physique as well.

Engineering and math fields are still only 15% women.

Whose fault is that?

Women are still referred to as "crazy" when emotional.
The "women are catty and hate each other" jokes that pit woman against woman. Other women are not "competition" for men's attention which we might see if we were taught to care about things other than getting attention from men.

I'm sorry about your upbringing but I was raised very differently. I am the youngest of 5 girls and we weren't taught to "seek attention from men" at all. Actually, it was frowned upon in my house.

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

odusgolp

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

We still get paid, on average, less than men for doing the same job. $0.77 for every dollar a man gets.

This is a generalization (not a case by case). Also, "Women own 65% of the entire wealth of the United States and spend 85 cents of every dollar."
Don't reply... just let that sink in.

Women are more likely to be valued on appearance than men. How many girls would rather be "hot" (i.e. do-able by men) than smart or successful?

Also, a generalization. Most men are criticized on their physique as well.

Engineering and math fields are still only 15% women.

Whose fault is that?

Women are still referred to as "crazy" when emotional.
The "women are catty and hate each other" jokes that pit woman against woman. Other women are not "competition" for men's attention which we might see if we were taught to care about things other than getting attention from men.

I'm sorry about your upbringing but I was raised very differently. I am the youngest of 5 girls and we weren't taught to "seek attention from men" at all. Actually, it was frowned upon in my house.

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

:huh:

Obviously you missed my earlier post where I stated I do get paid a lot and did go to an engineering school. I was raised Mormon, so yeah, NOT raised to seek attention from men. I didn't say these are MY issues. Or course that list is full of generalizations. It's a list of "general" problems faced by women in society. I know it's not universal. And like I said earlier we don't need to imagine these things occurring when they aren't, but they do happen and they are something to be aware of. I don't understand your hostility.

We (women) and men should act however we prefer to act and be treated with the respect and decency we deserve.

biorach

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

ldrosophila

With what issues (that feminists are "dealing with") are you referring?

Current issues that WOMEN are dealing with:
We still get paid, on average, less than men for doing the same job. $0.77 for every dollar a man gets.
Women are more likely to be valued on appearance than men. How many girls would rather be "hot" (i.e. do-able by men) than smart or successful?
Engineering and math fields are still only 15% women.
Women are still referred to as "crazy" when emotional.
The "women are catty and hate each other" jokes that pit woman against woman. Other women are not "competition" for men's attention which we might see if we were taught to care about things other than getting attention from men.

But like a previous poster pointed out, men also are held back by stereotypes and discrimination. Men are raised to be "tough" and shut out their, emotions, to stay away from "girly" fields like teaching, nursing or art.


But like I said, it's something to be aware of and try to make changes within our own lives. Arguing about it over the internet doesn't accomplish anything.

Yes women get paid less then men when you dont factor in hours worked, time off to raise children, and the fields women tend to go in pay less. In our society we have freedom, there is no one stoping anyone into going in fields like engineering except themselfs. So saying women get paid $0.77 to every doller a man makes is a half truth, a half truth is just as bad as a lie. To skew information in favor of your argument is very bias.

In general women in heavily dominated male fields still make less. Saw an interesting article of female physicians the gap in pay is actually greater. This is after adjusting for specialty and years worked according to JAMA Internal Medicine.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1733450


There is still a gap in engineering for example a male aerospace engineer in 2008 median income was $93,201 while a woman's median income was $74,584 according to http://www.aacu.org/ocww/volume39_1/feature.cfm?section=1

There is also what is termed the glass elevator effect, so for example men in my field will often make more despite it being a heavily dominated female career path.

biorach

We still get paid, on average, less than men for doing the same job. $0.77 for every dollar a man gets.

This is a generalization (not a case by case). Also, "Women own 65% of the entire wealth of the United States and spend 85 cents of every dollar."
Don't reply... just let that sink in.

Women are more likely to be valued on appearance than men. How many girls would rather be "hot" (i.e. do-able by men) than smart or successful?

Also, a generalization. Most men are criticized on their physique as well.

Engineering and math fields are still only 15% women.

Whose fault is that?

Women are still referred to as "crazy" when emotional.
The "women are catty and hate each other" jokes that pit woman against woman. Other women are not "competition" for men's attention which we might see if we were taught to care about things other than getting attention from men.

I'm sorry about your upbringing but I was raised very differently. I am the youngest of 5 girls and we weren't taught to "seek attention from men" at all. Actually, it was frowned upon in my house.

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

:huh:

Obviously you missed my earlier post where I stated I do get paid a lot and did go to an engineering school. I was raised Mormon, so yeah, NOT raised to seek attention from men. I didn't say these are MY issues. Or course that list is full of generalizations. It's a list of "general" problems faced by women in society. I know it's not universal. And like I said earlier we don't need to imagine these things occurring when they aren't, but they do happen and they are something to be aware of. I don't understand your hostility.

We (women) and men should act however we prefer to act and be treated with the respect and decency we deserve.

I'm not hostile, I'm a little disappointed because I asked for issues that feminists are "dealing with", and this is what I got.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

tottie06

BAHAHA Nice one. But not true for all of us! I make my own cheese, am stingy as hell, and even volunteer 25 hours a week.

1_JR_1

This whole debate is why we need a good ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!!!!!!

BusyRaeNOTBusty

We still get paid, on average, less than men for doing the same job. $0.77 for every dollar a man gets.

This is a generalization (not a case by case). Also, "Women own 65% of the entire wealth of the United States and spend 85 cents of every dollar."
Don't reply... just let that sink in.

Women are more likely to be valued on appearance than men. How many girls would rather be "hot" (i.e. do-able by men) than smart or successful?

Also, a generalization. Most men are criticized on their physique as well.

Engineering and math fields are still only 15% women.

Whose fault is that?

Women are still referred to as "crazy" when emotional.
The "women are catty and hate each other" jokes that pit woman against woman. Other women are not "competition" for men's attention which we might see if we were taught to care about things other than getting attention from men.

I'm sorry about your upbringing but I was raised very differently. I am the youngest of 5 girls and we weren't taught to "seek attention from men" at all. Actually, it was frowned upon in my house.

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

:huh:

Obviously you missed my earlier post where I stated I do get paid a lot and did go to an engineering school. I was raised Mormon, so yeah, NOT raised to seek attention from men. I didn't say these are MY issues. Or course that list is full of generalizations. It's a list of "general" problems faced by women in society. I know it's not universal. And like I said earlier we don't need to imagine these things occurring when they aren't, but they do happen and they are something to be aware of. I don't understand your hostility.

We (women) and men should act however we prefer to act and be treated with the respect and decency we deserve.

I'm not hostile, I'm a little disappointed because I asked for issues that feminists are "dealing with", and this is what I got.

What did you expect? If I didn't give you the answer you apparently wanted, you tell me what the answer is supposed to be? I'm sorry the crazy lady who posted the lady-rug add didn't answer you with some illogical tirade of half-truths. Women aren't getting shot in the head for wanting to go to school in the U.S. Women are allowed to drive cars, etc. What do you want me to say, that there are no gender issues in the U.S. anymore? I already pointed out that we've made a ton of progress since the 1950s. Those are some of the remaining issues however.

BinaryPulsar

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Are you the one the ducks get their info from before they pass it along to the men?

biorach

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Oh, for the love of... I'm not saying that being emotional is wrong! I'm simply saying that everyone is different and none of us are equal to one another. We should be given the same opportunities. That is all.

determined_erin

What did you expect? If I didn't give you the answer you apparently wanted, you tell me what the answer is supposed to be? I'm sorry the crazy lady who posted the lady-rug add didn't answer you with some illogical tirade of half-truths. Women aren't getting shot in the head for wanting to go to school in the U.S. Women are allowed to drive cars, etc. What do you want me to say, that there are no gender issues in the U.S. anymore? I already pointed out that we've made a ton of progress since the 1950s. Those are some of the remaining issues however.

Excuse me, but don't be calling me crazy. The ad was crazy, and as you can see, all of you easily took over having a convo about gender issues. That was the goal, and you did it without me speaking for awhile. So who is "crazy" now?

Italianma7

Accurate. So horribly accurate.

yes it is:grumble:

ldrosophila

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Here, here...I've luckily only had one meltdown at work, but it happens. And I hate hate this argument, "well you need to act like a man if you want equality." Doesnt work with races, and it doesnt work with gender. So unless I "act" like a man, because somehow male behavior is defined as the gold standard despite 1/2 of the population "acting" like women, I cannot expect equality?

ldrosophila

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Oh, for the love of... I'm not saying that being emotional is wrong! I'm simply saying that everyone is different and none of us are equal to one another. We should be given the same opportunities. That is all.

thats what "feminists" are saying

BusyRaeNOTBusty

What did you expect? If I didn't give you the answer you apparently wanted, you tell me what the answer is supposed to be? I'm sorry the crazy lady who posted the lady-rug add didn't answer you with some illogical tirade of half-truths. Women aren't getting shot in the head for wanting to go to school in the U.S. Women are allowed to drive cars, etc. What do you want me to say, that there are no gender issues in the U.S. anymore? I already pointed out that we've made a ton of progress since the 1950s. Those are some of the remaining issues however.

Excuse me, but don't be calling me crazy. The ad was crazy, and as you can see, all of you easily took over having a convo about gender issues. That was the goal, and you did it without me speaking for awhile. So who is "crazy" now?

You are right. I apologize. I should not have called you crazy. I applaud you for trying to bring attention to feminist issues. If you are interested, here are a couple of my favorite blogs/facebook pages, that actually combine fitness with feminism.

https://www.facebook.com/fitandfeminist

https://www.facebook.com/gokaleo

j6o4

With all feminist talk put aside, men treat women as sexual objects and believe that men can buy women with money because, men believe in treating others how they want to be treated. If all girls wanted look at me as a sexual object and wanted to throw money at me, I'd be a very happy man.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

I know leave you all with this:



http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/01/living/ducati-panigale-male-models/

biorach

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Here, here...I've luckily only had one meltdown at work, but it happens. And I hate hate this argument, "well you need to act like a man if you want equality." Doesnt work with races, and it doesnt work with gender. So unless I "act" like a man, because somehow male behavior is defined as the gold standard despite 1/2 of the population "acting" like women, I cannot expect equality?

FindingMyPerfection

Actually the dude is right. I was wrong. Women on average get paid $0.77 per $1. BUT when you do compare the same job, it's $0.91 for $1.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

Employers have to take into account that women may become pregnant.

9 months of dr appts and possibly lower productivity
Maternity leave
Woman may choose not to come back so employer must train a replacement

These are real expense risks employers take on when employing a woman of childbearing age.

I feel the discrepancy is warranted.

biorach

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Oh, for the love of... I'm not saying that being emotional is wrong! I'm simply saying that everyone is different and none of us are equal to one another. We should be given the same opportunities. That is all.

thats what "feminists" are saying

What opportunity are we denied?

ldrosophila

As a stated in an earlier post, WOMEN wouldn't be treated like WOMEN if they didn't act like WOMEN!
Good day.

Oh.... I should act like I have a penis. I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, no! I'm saying that women proclaim that they want to be treated equal to a man... If they want to be treated like a man, they should act like a man. I'm just referring to the emotional side of this argument.

But we are not men. We are different. Doesn't mean we aren't "equal". Women do tend to be more emotional. Great if you aren't, but that doesn't make those of us who are "wrong". I used to beat myself up for crying at movies, or crying in front of my boss. It didn't fit this tough girl persona I thought I needed to have. Then I realized it's stupid to try to be something I'm not. Being emotional isn't "bad".

Oh, for the love of... I'm not saying that being emotional is wrong! I'm simply saying that everyone is different and none of us are equal to one another. We should be given the same opportunities. That is all.

thats what "feminists" are saying

What opportunity are we denied?

Luckily, we had some pretty strong willed, hard working women who fought very hard to get us footing into major institutions like the military and education. It's our job to continue our Grandmother's legacy and ensure that we dont lose those opportunities and continue to work to educate and enlighten others who may still see women as second class citizens or mere sex objects.

This is speaking of course for the US, and I would assume Canada and Europe. Of course if we looked at other conditions around the world I could paint you a completely different picture.

biorach

How dare you speak of my grandmother that way. Why, she was the sammich-making queen in her day.

ldrosophila

How dare you speak of my grandmother that way. Why, she was the sammich-making queen in her day.

LOL, my Grandmother, was a working mother of 5, makes a to die for mac and cheese. It would literally make you cry she puts bacon in it.

ZombieGeezUs

The only issue I have is when certain women demand equality and then when you treat them equally (but it is something they disapprove of) the first thing they scream is "but, I'm a woman!"

kellybellyjellyn

biorach

The only issue I have is when certain women demand equality and then when you treat them equally (but it is something they disapprove of) the first thing they scream is "but, I'm a woman!"

You, my dear sir, are a genius.