Fast Food Workers Striking?!?!?

kgbenny

I have nice things because I worked for them.

The flip side of this is that you probably had to work considerably less for those things than many other people would have to. In other words, it discounts the enormous advantage things like skin color, socioeconomic status as a child, and early childhood education probably gave you. Some 20 year old minority whose mother was a crack addict and got basically no education in elementary school or high school has a much, much, much tougher road than some suburban middle class white girl who went to a decent school.

While that may be true for an average middle-class white woman, this comment is off-base. The color of my skin does not tell you much about my past and my upbringing. I'd advise you to pause before making your generalizations and think through your statements carefully. Financial struggles can apply to all races, genders, and backgrounds.

jonnythan

I have nice things because I worked for them.

The flip side of this is that you probably had to work considerably less for those things than many other people would have to. In other words, it discounts the enormous advantage things like skin color, socioeconomic status as a child, and early childhood education probably gave you. Some 20 year old minority whose mother was a crack addict and got basically no education in elementary school or high school has a much, much, much tougher road than some suburban middle class white girl who went to a decent school.

While that may be true for an average middle-class white woman, this comment is off-base. The color of my skin does not tell you much about my past and my upbringing. I'd advise you to pause before making your generalizations and think through your statements carefully. Financial struggles can apply to all races, genders, and backgrounds.

I didn't mean to imply you were the middle class girl who went to a decent school. I was using that as an example.

That being said, the color of your skin does confer an economic advantage, whether you want to admit it or not.

ModernNerd

Something I'm amused about in this thread. The lack of logic. People working in fast food at minimum wage can't afford to even support themselves and their family. So what's the solution being suggested? Get an education. Yes, because people who can't afford to pay rent can certainly afford the thousands of dollars it takes to go to college.

You are obviously unaware of how much assistance is available, and how easy it is to get, for education. Student loans are no problem if you don't qualify for anything else.

And you are obviously unaware of how common it is to rack up thousands in student loan debt and STILL be unable to find a job that pays well. And I'm not just talking about the degrees that are essentially useless, either.

There is a lot to be said about being diligent with your choices, researching market demand, and picking a degree with high demand and forecasted growth.

And I agree wholeheartedly with that. But not every person is suited for the jobs that are in demand. I hate math, for example, so engineering and finance (two jobs that are conceivably always in demand) are not something I could/would pursue. Does that mean I should be regulated to fast food/hospitality? Of course not. I researched my degree and the required further education (MS,PhD etc) needed to get the job I want. I'm not in it for the money, necessarily. I just want a job that I actually enjoy and feel useful in doing. Both parents work at jobs they despise so that their kids wouldn't have to. Spoiler alert: they both currently do. My brother recently graduated from his sheet metal apprenticeship and makes as much as my husband, who is a pharmacist. The only difference is that one of them is 150 grand in debt and the other isn't.

So the implication is that your husband shouldn't have pursued pharmacy, a field that is absolutely critical, because it took hard work and money?

I hate math too, shucks not many people love it. But I'm decently good at it and understand that working in the engineering industry puts my talents in the best possible arena to help people. If I could make as much flipping burgers as I could as an engineer, would I bail on engineering because it was easier? Absolutely not.

Just mah $0.02 :flowerforyou:

ObstacleRacer

There in entitlement at play here. It's just the opposite of what everyone is claiming.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june13/makingsense_06-21.html

It's a very good study. Especially the tests done with a Monopoly board game. Two players, one given a bunch of advantages and the other not. (One player gets to roll 2 dice, the other just one; The player rolling 2 dice starts with $2,000, the other $1,000; the advantaged player made more money for passing go, etc.)

In the study it showed that players with all the advantages, that were given to them randomly and not in any way earned, felt they deserved to win. Even though the game was completely rigged in their favor they felt they won through their own hard work.

People here are no different, raised with every advantage they still want to look down on others for not being as well off as they are. Completely disregarding that the biggest advantage they've received is the pure luck of where they were born and to how well off a family they were born into.

Everyone knows experimental economics as a field is a bunch of Hokus Pokus! It was created to help pot heads who like to say "what if" a lot remain in academia.

Sometimes I forget that the "I worked hard all on my own to get where I am!" crowd often overlaps with the "I don't need no fancy book learnin'!" crowd.

tigersword

This just in: https://www.facebook.com/Fightfor15
While http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-EMT-l-Pittsburgh,-PA.html

So EMS workers in Pittsburg PA make on average $11.53/hour, but they DD workers want $15? What's wrong with this picture?

City of Pittsburgh Paramedics have a starting salary of $14.26/hour their first year on the job. After 5 years they earn $25.07/hour. The starting salary is much higher than what you claim to be the average. Some employees earn 6 figures a year after factoring in overtime.

Also Pittsburgh is spelled with an "h" at the end.

What's wrong with this picture is some people misrepresent facts.

Really? I have been a medic for over 20 years and where I live, $13/hour is about tops, unless you are a firefighter, too! Thankfully, I care about my community and do it because it's what I've been called to do. Also, those 6 figure medics you mention...how many hours per week at how many jobs to make that? Talk about misrepresentation.
Forgive the spelling mistake, I was typing on my way to a call on my vollie department, where I use my hundred thousand dollar education for NO pay. In what world should saving lives be valued at less than a Whopper with Cheese?

The average wage for an EMT increased by over $6,000/year between 2001 and 2008, meanwhile yearly minimum wage workers saw in increase of $1,000 per year. I'm not saying people should be getting paid ridiculous amounts of money, but wage increases should be comparable and tied to the cost of living, not just left to stagnate while the cost of living increases.

PSULions2008

They are just mad that self serving kiosks will be doing their jobs pretty soon. And at least they won't mess up your order.

kreene1987

In the free market, people generally are paid what they're worth, based on the value they add to the business.

wheird

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because you are not an island. You are a member of society.

You have enjoyed the perks provided to you by others and should do your part to help others as you've been helped.

Because people tend to not starve quietly.

This "Let them eat cake" argument that some of you are making has been tried before. The poor and elderly were left to die in the streets. Thankfully society has advanced since then. Shame on you for wanting to go backwards.

Yes, I enjoy the same perks of society that most others do. That does not impart any responsibility on me for my neighbor against my will. It should not be forced upon me to care for anyone that is not my own responsibility. Which means I am against government redistribution of wealth, not charity on the individual level.

wheird

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

kgbenny

I have nice things because I worked for them.

The flip side of this is that you probably had to work considerably less for those things than many other people would have to. In other words, it discounts the enormous advantage things like skin color, socioeconomic status as a child, and early childhood education probably gave you. Some 20 year old minority whose mother was a crack addict and got basically no education in elementary school or high school has a much, much, much tougher road than some suburban middle class white girl who went to a decent school.

While that may be true for an average middle-class white woman, this comment is off-base. The color of my skin does not tell you much about my past and my upbringing. I'd advise you to pause before making your generalizations and think through your statements carefully. Financial struggles can apply to all races, genders, and backgrounds.

I didn't mean to imply you were the middle class girl who went to a decent school. I was using that as an example.

That being said, the color of your skin does confer an economic advantage, whether you want to admit it or not.

They're correlated. I will agree with that. It's unfortunate.

wiscck

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

tzig00

Every job worked at full time hours should pay a living wage.

THIS!!!!

So I guess if you have a full time job in the mall they should pay you more than $8.50 to start too? I guess the cost of living will go up to compensate all those people. While the cost of living goes up and everyone's "minimum" pay goes up to $15/hr, does that mean that mine should increase that much too since they're now making more than me at the career that I've been in for 9 years?

healthymissfit

are you mentally incapacitated op or just a troll? these people are bettering themselves because if you know anything, you know that fast food workers are grossly underpaid with no benefits and horrifying working conditions.

djeffreys10

If I am unhappy with my salary, I look for work elsewhere. If I am unable to find a job that pays more, I re-evaluate my expectations as far as salary goes. Strange how there are no laws to force my employeer to pay me at my salary level. It's almost like my time is actually worth more money. Funny how that works.

kmbweber2014

Something I'm amused about in this thread. The lack of logic. People working in fast food at minimum wage can't afford to even support themselves and their family. So what's the solution being suggested? Get an education. Yes, because people who can't afford to pay rent can certainly afford the thousands of dollars it takes to go to college.

You are obviously unaware of how much assistance is available, and how easy it is to get, for education. Student loans are no problem if you don't qualify for anything else.

And you are obviously unaware of how common it is to rack up thousands in student loan debt and STILL be unable to find a job that pays well. And I'm not just talking about the degrees that are essentially useless, either.

There is a lot to be said about being diligent with your choices, researching market demand, and picking a degree with high demand and forecasted growth.

And I agree wholeheartedly with that. But not every person is suited for the jobs that are in demand. I hate math, for example, so engineering and finance (two jobs that are conceivably always in demand) are not something I could/would pursue. Does that mean I should be regulated to fast food/hospitality? Of course not. I researched my degree and the required further education (MS,PhD etc) needed to get the job I want. I'm not in it for the money, necessarily. I just want a job that I actually enjoy and feel useful in doing. Both parents work at jobs they despise so that their kids wouldn't have to. Spoiler alert: they both currently do. My brother recently graduated from his sheet metal apprenticeship and makes as much as my husband, who is a pharmacist. The only difference is that one of them is 150 grand in debt and the other isn't.

So the implication is that your husband shouldn't have pursued pharmacy, a field that is absolutely critical, because it took hard work and money?

I hate math too, shucks not many people love it. But I'm decently good at it and understand that working in the engineering industry puts my talents in the best possible arena to help people. If I could make as much flipping burgers as I could as an engineer, would I bail on engineering because it was easier? Absolutely not.

Just mah $0.02 :flowerforyou:

I hate math too, and honestly I have to work really hard to be good at it and I'm a good accountant. It's not where I saw myself but I got laid off when the economy was real bad and I did what I had to do, I refused to be out of work for more than a month. So I wasn't. I have a great career that I am working on loving. I'm grateful for a job, and I'm grateful to be able to pay my bills. I'm also grateful that my employer was willing to hire me, people need to learn to be grateful for what they have an they will spend less time being miserable.

PSULions2008

If I am unhappy with my salary, I look for work elsewhere. If I am unable to find a job that pays more, I re-evaluate my expectations as far as salary goes. Strange how there are no laws to force my employeer to pay me at my salary level. It's almost like my time is actually worth more money. Funny how that works.

Personal accountability is a long lost trait in this world of dependence that we are living in.

ElliottTN

are you mentally incapacitated op or just a troll? these people are bettering themselves because if you know anything, you know that fast food workers are grossly underpaid with no benefits and horrifying working conditions.

In a first world country

vtmoon

There in entitlement at play here. It's just the opposite of what everyone is claiming.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june13/makingsense_06-21.html

It's a very good study. Especially the tests done with a Monopoly board game. Two players, one given a bunch of advantages and the other not. (One player gets to roll 2 dice, the other just one; The player rolling 2 dice starts with $2,000, the other $1,000; the advantaged player made more money for passing go, etc.)

In the study it showed that players with all the advantages, that were given to them randomly and not in any way earned, felt they deserved to win. Even though the game was completely rigged in their favor they felt they won through their own hard work.

People here are no different, raised with every advantage they still want to look down on others for not being as well off as they are. Completely disregarding that the biggest advantage they've received is the pure luck of where they were born and to how well off a family they were born into.

Everyone knows experimental economics as a field is a bunch of Hokus Pokus! It was created to help pot heads who like to say "what if" a lot remain in academia.

Sometimes I forget that the "I worked hard all on my own to get where I am!" crowd often overlaps with the "I don't need no fancy book learnin'!" crowd.

dcarr67

I have nice things because I worked for them.

The flip side of this is that you probably had to work considerably less for those things than many other people would have to. In other words, it discounts the enormous advantage things like skin color, socioeconomic status as a child, and early childhood education probably gave you. Some 20 year old minority whose mother was a crack addict and got basically no education in elementary school or high school has a much, much, much tougher road than some suburban middle class white girl who went to a decent school.

While that may be true for an average middle-class white woman, this comment is off-base. The color of my skin does not tell you much about my past and my upbringing. I'd advise you to pause before making your generalizations and think through your statements carefully. Financial struggles can apply to all races, genders, and backgrounds.

I didn't mean to imply you were the middle class girl who went to a decent school. I was using that as an example.

That being said, the color of your skin does confer an economic advantage, whether you want to admit it or not.

That whole arguement is funny-not ha ha funny. I had an arguement with an older black guy I worked with years ago. he used the same arguement you are using about me having an advantage over his 4 children all about my age. Like I told him, all 4 of his kids went to college straight out of High School, I went in the military. His kids ultimitely had opportunities that I didn't have. I am white but that has nothing to do with where I am or what I have acheived. I joined the military, learned a marketable skill, got experience ethen entered the work force and found a good job. After 2 layoffs, first one with a pregnant wife, I realized that wasn't enough. I worked full time and went back to school part time and finished my degree finally at 40.

While it is easy to generalize the poor black kid with a crack ho mom has it harder than many, there are plenty of poor dis advantaged white people too. At what point does personal responsibility kick in? And back to the main point of this thread- why does someones circumstances make flipping a burger worth more than it really is?

tigersword

OK, I just read through this whole thread and there are many points I agree with. I am just to lazy to quote them on my laptop. So here is my 2 cents:

Like I tell my teenage children, a job is worth what someone is willing to pay for it and to work for it. Minimum wage jobs in general, are for uneducated and younger workers. yes, sometimes older people have to work them to get by, but that isnt the companies fault. Why should someone with no education, no training and sometimes no ambition, be paid the same or more than someone who has tried to better themselves? It is all relative. If you want to pay a fast food worker $15/hr, then every job would have to be adjusted upward as well to compensate for education and experience. that is an unsustainable and ignorant idea.

If you want to make more, go to school, go in the military, try to move up at the company you are in. We all want to make more but a job is worth what it is worth. We are paying $500 month in student loans on for my wife who had to withdraw from nursing school and is working as a nurses aide for $11 an hour. I think she should make a lot more for the work she does. It is a $hitty job, pun intended. But that is what it pays. Someone flipping a burger should not make more than someone taking care of old sick people, or EMT's or any job that requires some amount of schooling or experience.

If you dont like what you are doing or what you are making, do something about it, but dont blame the employer. For all of you liberals that think capitolism and big companies are evil, wake up. Companies take the chance and are in business to make a profit. If you push wages up, you will only push unemployment up because businesses will close.

There is a HUGE difference between livable wage and having creature comforts. Why take risk, go in debt or work hard if everyone else gets it for nothing?

I could go on for hours on this but my rant is over for now.

This is my favorite argument, because THE EXACT OPPOSITE HAS HAPPENED EVERY TIME WAGES WERE INCREASED. Wages increase, people have more money to spend. People spend more money, companies sell more product. Companies sell more product,demand for said product increases. Demand increases, companies earn more profit, and hire more employees to keep up with increased demand. The cycle continues. Depressing wages leads to less spending, which leads to less consumer demand, which forces businesses to close due to lack of demand.

That's how capitalism works. Examples: Costco, Trader Joes, Aldis, companies that pay well above minimum wage, and consistently earn record profits.

vtmoon

are you mentally incapacitated op or just a troll? these people are bettering themselves because if you know anything, you know that fast food workers are grossly underpaid with no benefits and horrifying working conditions.

In a first world country

You keep saying that... you do realize 5 dollars an hour they would live well in a third world country but they don't live there. Standards of living are not established for the whole world just for your country.

ObstacleRacer

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because you are not an island. You are a member of society.

You have enjoyed the perks provided to you by others and should do your part to help others as you've been helped.

Because people tend to not starve quietly.

This "Let them eat cake" argument that some of you are making has been tried before. The poor and elderly were left to die in the streets. Thankfully society has advanced since then. Shame on you for wanting to go backwards.

Yes, I enjoy the same perks of society that most others do. That does not impart any responsibility on me for my neighbor against my will. It should not be forced upon me to care for anyone that is not my own responsibility. Which means I am against government redistribution of wealth, not charity on the individual level.

That's the thing. They aren't asking for a handout. They aren't petitioning the government. They are petitioning their private employer for a wage increase.

What they're doing is a 100% free market, capitalist ideal. They aren't even union workers. They are trying to get off public assistance and get out of poverty through their own hard work.

So why would anyone be opposed to that?

PSULions2008

This is my favorite argument, because THE EXACT OPPOSITE HAS HAPPENED EVERY TIME WAGES WERE INCREASED. Wages increase, people have more money to spend. People spend more money, companies sell more product. Companies sell more product,demand for said product increases. Demand increases, companies earn more profit, and hire more employees to keep up with increased demand. The cycle continues. Depressing wages leads to less spending, which leads to less consumer demand, which forces businesses to close due to lack of demand.

That's how capitalism works. Examples: Costco, Trader Joes, Aldis, companies that pay well above minimum wage, and consistently earn record profits.

That's their business plan. Why should government dictate how a company runs its business? Why don't these minimum wage workers go work for the examples you listed? My guess is that the Costo's of the world actually have high expectations of their employees and that those minimum wage workers wouldn't cut it there.

wheird

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

Thank you for this Fun Fact, despite being irrelevant?

F00LofaT00K

Every job worked at full time hours should pay a living wage.

THIS!!!!

So I guess if you have a full time job in the mall they should pay you more than $8.50 to start too? I guess the cost of living will go up to compensate all those people. While the cost of living goes up and everyone's "minimum" pay goes up to $15/hr, does that mean that mine should increase that much too since they're now making more than me at the career that I've been in for 9 years?

I never said minimum wage should go up to $15 an hour and no, I don't think everybody's wage should automatically increase. I make $12 an hour at my job and I work full time. With student loans and my bills I'm barely scraping by... I choose not to get cable and I choose to turn down my friends when they invite me out because I would rather save my money than spend it. I have a very minimal wardrobe because I can't afford clothes that i do not need. That being said, I don't think MY wage should increase just because the minimum is something more realistic... but having worked in the past 32 hours a week at $8 (more than minimum) I could not pay all of my bills. I had no car payment, had no cable or internet and still couldn't afford my bills. even with a college degree, that was the only job I was able to get. So I did everything "right" by working hard in high school, going to college, being involved in leadership positions, maintaining a 3.0GPA, earning a degree, going to career services for help with my resume and I STILL could not find a job making more than $8. I kept applying to second jobs and nobody was hiring. It is BS to expect somebody to pay their auto insurance, rent, food, medical expenses, electric, etc. at $7.25 an hour. I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I come from renting a small, old one bedroom studio apartment will run you a MINIMUM of $500 a month IF you're lucky enough to get the place before somebody else. If you work 40 hours at $7.25 you're making $1160.00 BEFORE taxes. Your rent is at least half of your net income. That leaves you $500 for all of your other bills, gas money, food money... and god-forbid you have a child to take care of.

jonnythan

That whole arguement is funny-not ha ha funny. I had an arguement with an older black guy I worked with years ago. he used the same arguement you are using about me having an advantage over his 4 children all about my age. Like I told him, all 4 of his kids went to college straight out of High School, I went in the military. His kids ultimitely had opportunities that I didn't have. I am white but that has nothing to do with where I am or what I have acheived. I joined the military, learned a marketable skill, got experience ethen entered the work force and found a good job. After 2 layoffs, first one with a pregnant wife, I realized that wasn't enough. I worked full time and went back to school part time and finished my degree finally at 40.

While it is easy to generalize the poor black kid with a crack ho mom has it harder than many, there are plenty of poor dis advantaged white people too. At what point does personal responsibility kick in? And back to the main point of this thread- why does someones circumstances make flipping a burger worth more than it really is?

I'm not talking about personal responsibility. I'm talking about the relationship between effort and reward.

Given the same approximate level of "effort," the middle class white girl who went to a decent high school is going to, on average, be far more successful than the welfare minority who had nonexistent parents and little to no effective schooling. That's just how it works.

I'm not setting up a situation where an individual can blame the system for his or her personal situation. I'm trying to explain that the system is set up in such a way that there's not some across-the-board linear relationship between effort and reward. The system is incredibly imbalanced in that regard.

"I worked for it and earned it myself" coming from a person who grew up with significant economic advantages rings a little hollow when they're using that argument who grew up without those advantages.

ModernNerd

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

jonnythan

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

You guys are right, but there's something that makes me a little uncomfortable about someone asking "why should I care about any of those poor starving children in my own country?"

karlsantiago

all i can say is LOL

ObstacleRacer

That's their business plan. Why should government dictate how a company runs its business? Why don't these minimum wage workers go work for the examples you listed? My guess is that the Costo's of the world actually have high expectations of their employees and that those minimum wage workers wouldn't cut it there.

A. Government dictates how a company should run it business in hundreds of ways. Good thing too, because it literally saves lives.

B. This is not one of them. This is non-union employees petitioning their private employer for a wage increase. If they were to receive the raise many of them would no longer be on public assistance.