Fast Food Workers Striking?!?!?

vtmoon

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

Yes helping an old lady cross the road is like having lung cancer! Not helping her is the best choice cause you are teaching her to be independent and not rely on help!

wiscck

I'm surprised no one has brought up how when people are paid better they tend to work harder and there is low turnover, which cuts down on training costs for businesses. If you pay people minimum wage, they will give you minimum effort.

But then again, I am taking a labor econ course this semester, so, maybe that isn't common knowledge.

dcarr67

That whole arguement is funny-not ha ha funny. I had an arguement with an older black guy I worked with years ago. he used the same arguement you are using about me having an advantage over his 4 children all about my age. Like I told him, all 4 of his kids went to college straight out of High School, I went in the military. His kids ultimitely had opportunities that I didn't have. I am white but that has nothing to do with where I am or what I have acheived. I joined the military, learned a marketable skill, got experience ethen entered the work force and found a good job. After 2 layoffs, first one with a pregnant wife, I realized that wasn't enough. I worked full time and went back to school part time and finished my degree finally at 40.

While it is easy to generalize the poor black kid with a crack ho mom has it harder than many, there are plenty of poor dis advantaged white people too. At what point does personal responsibility kick in? And back to the main point of this thread- why does someones circumstances make flipping a burger worth more than it really is?

I'm not talking about personal responsibility. I'm talking about the relationship between effort and reward.

Given the same approximate level of "effort," the middle class white girl who went to a decent high school is going to, on average, be far more successful than the welfare minority who had nonexistent parents and little to no effective schooling. That's just how it works.

I'm not setting up a situation where an individual can blame the system for his or her personal situation. I'm trying to explain that the system is set up in such a way that there's not some across-the-board linear relationship between effort and reward. The system is incredibly imbalanced in that regard.

"I worked for it and earned it myself" coming from a person who grew up with significant economic advantages rings a little hollow when they're using that argument who grew up without those advantages.

I actually agree with your premise to a degree, I just hate when people have to bring race into things. A black kid brought up in a middle class family with a good school will equally have a better chance than a poor white kid. Even more so actually because they will still qualify for grants and loans that no white kid of any background ever will. Just leave the race part out of it and you arguement is valid.

That being said, I still think at some point, people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own lot in life.

PennyM140

I gotta love when a person who works a desk job gets all bent out of shape when minimum-wage part-time employees consider a strike.

What incentive would we have to work hard to improve our lives and get better jobs if all we have to do is beg for more money to get it?
My job is more skilled that a fast food job. I worked harder to get it and I work hard to maintain it. In my opinion, I deserve more money compensation than someone who flips burgers.
I don't have anything against anyone in a minimum wage paying job. But those jobs will always exist and someone will always need to do them. In general minimum wage jobs are for younger people as a stepping stone or older people as a supplemental income. I don't consider them a permanent career.

This is more or less the same logic that anti-vaccine people use. It's the very perks and comfort we as workers enjoy today that allow us to dismiss the hard work and tactics that got you those very perks.

No. The perks that we enjoy are because of the hard work it took to get us here. Who would endure the stress and responsibility of an advanced career if they could make the same wage at a fast food restaurant?

You completely missed the point. You worked hard, yes. But there are a lot of people in minimum wage jobs that have worked much harder than you.

The perks you enjoy aren't due just to your hard work. They are in large part due to the hard work of the people that came before you and set up the system in a way beneficial to you and provided you with significant developmental advantages.

I'd like more information on what these advantages are that I supposedly had.
And a fast food worker works harder that I do? How so?

healthymissfit

i knew i never shoulda opened this thread. fml

ModernNerd

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

You guys are right, but there's something that makes me a little uncomfortable about someone asking "why should I care about any of those poor starving children in my own country?"

oh I agree. Totes magotes. I just think it was a silly and immature argument on her/his/it's/Iforgetwhosaidit part resulting from an insecure foundational argument.

I don't think you can classify everyone who makes a higher salary though as being uncaring individuals who don't make financial and temporal donations to society.

Oh and I still love you and your kitteh jonnythan, just not your viewpoint necessarily :flowerforyou:

AmykinsCatfood

Something I'm amused about in this thread. The lack of logic. People working in fast food at minimum wage can't afford to even support themselves and their family. So what's the solution being suggested? Get an education. Yes, because people who can't afford to pay rent can certainly afford the thousands of dollars it takes to go to college.

You are obviously unaware of how much assistance is available, and how easy it is to get, for education. Student loans are no problem if you don't qualify for anything else.

And you are obviously unaware of how common it is to rack up thousands in student loan debt and STILL be unable to find a job that pays well. And I'm not just talking about the degrees that are essentially useless, either.

There is a lot to be said about being diligent with your choices, researching market demand, and picking a degree with high demand and forecasted growth.

And this is one of the reasons why the suicide rates are so high. People "choose" jobs purely to make money and where does it get them? Stressed out and seriously mentally ill. What's wrong with following a career path that you would enjoy? Yes I am working in retail right now but I still have hope for the future that I'll be doing what I love in a field I chose. I still deserve to be paid fairly now though.

wiscck

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.

i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

Thank you for this Fun Fact, despite being irrelevant?

If you truly, truly don't care if children die in the streets, and you aren't just saying that to make a point, then I suggest you talk to a psychologist.

kreene1987

This just in: https://www.facebook.com/Fightfor15
While http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-EMT-l-Pittsburgh,-PA.html

So EMS workers in Pittsburg PA make on average $11.53/hour, but they DD workers want $15? What's wrong with this picture?

City of Pittsburgh Paramedics have a starting salary of $14.26/hour their first year on the job. After 5 years they earn $25.07/hour. The starting salary is much higher than what you claim to be the average. Some employees earn 6 figures a year after factoring in overtime.

Also Pittsburgh is spelled with an "h" at the end.

What's wrong with this picture is some people misrepresent facts.

Really? I have been a medic for over 20 years and where I live, $13/hour is about tops, unless you are a firefighter, too! Thankfully, I care about my community and do it because it's what I've been called to do. Also, those 6 figure medics you mention...how many hours per week at how many jobs to make that? Talk about misrepresentation.
Forgive the spelling mistake, I was typing on my way to a call on my vollie department, where I use my hundred thousand dollar education for NO pay. In what world should saving lives be valued at less than a Whopper with Cheese?

The average wage for an EMT increased by over $6,000/year between 2001 and 2008, meanwhile yearly minimum wage workers saw in increase of $1,000 per year. I'm not saying people should be getting paid ridiculous amounts of money, but wage increases should be comparable and tied to the cost of living, not just left to stagnate while the cost of living increases.

EMT medic is a skilled position.

Making 100 burgers a day and getting special orders correct at a 50% accuracy rate is not.

tzig00

Every job worked at full time hours should pay a living wage.

THIS!!!!

So I guess if you have a full time job in the mall they should pay you more than $8.50 to start too? I guess the cost of living will go up to compensate all those people. While the cost of living goes up and everyone's "minimum" pay goes up to $15/hr, does that mean that mine should increase that much too since they're now making more than me at the career that I've been in for 9 years?

I never said minimum wage should go up to $15 an hour and no, I don't think everybody's wage should automatically increase. I make $12 an hour at my job and I work full time. With student loans and my bills I'm barely scraping by... I choose not to get cable and I choose to turn down my friends when they invite me out because I would rather save my money than spend it. I have a very minimal wardrobe because I can't afford clothes that i do not need. That being said, I don't think MY wage should increase just because the minimum is something more realistic... but having worked in the past 32 hours a week at $8 (more than minimum) I could not pay all of my bills. I had no car payment, had no cable or internet and still couldn't afford my bills. even with a college degree, that was the only job I was able to get. So I did everything "right" by working hard in high school, going to college, being involved in leadership positions, maintaining a 3.0GPA, earning a degree, going to career services for help with my resume and I STILL could not find a job making more than $8. I kept applying to second jobs and nobody was hiring. It is BS to expect somebody to pay their auto insurance, rent, food, medical expenses, electric, etc. at $7.25 an hour. I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I come from renting a small, old one bedroom studio apartment will run you a MINIMUM of $500 a month IF you're lucky enough to get the place before somebody else. If you work 40 hours at $7.25 you're making $1160.00 BEFORE taxes. Your rent is at least half of your net income. That leaves you $500 for all of your other bills, gas money, food money... and god-forbid you have a child to take care of.

I never said minimum wage is $15 per hour but that is what the fast food workers are petitioning for. They want the starting pay to be $15 per hour. I have no problem paying them $10 per hour so they can live but when they make more money than I do with all the crap I have to deal with at my job, I get a little put out by it. You can live on $10 per hour, trust me, I did it. I did it affording a one bedroom apartment and sleeping on the couch so my son could sleep in the bedroom. I did it without government assistance and we still had a car (not a new one) and food and shelter. I did not have cable or internet or a smart phone, but I did it. I know that it's possible.

dcarr67

Fire them all!!!!!!! They walked off the job. I am sure there are plenty of other people willing to work for that wage. If no one will work for it, then they will have to raise it. Supply and demand.

PSULions2008

I'm surprised no one has brought up how when people are paid better they tend to work harder and there is low turnover, which cuts down on training costs for businesses. If you pay people minimum wage, they will give you minimum effort.

But then again, I am taking a labor econ course this semester, so, maybe that isn't common knowledge.

That's what I was alluding to in my previous post. Maybe these companies such as McDonald's have done studies to find that paying employees minimum wage and having high turnover equally as profitable as paying a higher wage such as Costco and having less turnover. Who are you, I or anyone else to try to dictate one way or the other. If said employee wants a higher wage, what is stopping them from leaving and going to Costco.....other than they might actual have to work hard to earn that wage.

jonnythan

I just hate when people have to bring race into things. A black kid brought up in a middle class family with a good school will equally have a better chance than a poor white kid. Even more so actually because they will still qualify for grants and loans that no white kid of any background ever will. Just leave the race part out of it and you arguement is valid.

That being said, I still think at some point, people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own lot in life.

You shouldn't hate when people bring race into things, because it matters. It really, really matters. A black kid brought up in a middle class family with a good school will not have the same opportunity that a white kid brought up in similar conditions did.

If you think that's not true, you have some learning to do.

DaWayne360

[That's how capitalism works. Examples: Costco, Trader Joes, Aldis, companies that pay well above minimum wage, and consistently earn record profits.
[/quote]

Yes but people go to those places because they offer good prices, or a product people are willing to pay a little more for.
Do you really think if a McDonalds worker is making $15/hr McD's will not have to cut overhead somewhere? Most likely there will price increases.
The business design is based on low pay, and typically hired students who need a flexible schedule and are willing to work a few years at min wage.
1.) Do you really think the service will get better if they make more $?
2.) How much do you think people will pay for a Big Mac?
Face it, fast food jobs are meant to get kids through school, help mom make a few extra bucks for Christmas, or provide a little extra income iin a pinch.
If you reach a point where you can't support you family on min wage, apply at Costco, Trader Joes, or Aldis.
That and stop making babies!

wheird

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.

Ui
i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

You guys are right, but there's something that makes me a little uncomfortable about someone asking "why should I care about any of those poor starving children in my own country?"

Except I asked why it was my problem, not that I didn't care. I won't be that d-bag who lists all of the good things he does, but I will say that I donate both time and money on poverty related issues.

wiscck

I'm surprised no one has brought up how when people are paid better they tend to work harder and there is low turnover, which cuts down on training costs for businesses. If you pay people minimum wage, they will give you minimum effort.

But then again, I am taking a labor econ course this semester, so, maybe that isn't common knowledge.

That's what I was alluding to in my previous post. Maybe these companies such as McDonald's have done studies to find that paying employees minimum wage and having high turnover is no more profitable than paying a higher wage such as Costco and having less turnover. Who are you, I or anyone else to try to dictate one way or the other. If said employee wants a higher wage, what is stopping them from leaving and going to Costco.....other than they might actual have to work hard to earn that wage.

Because Costco has extremely low turnover. Surprise, surprise, since they pay well.

WeepingAngel81

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.


i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

This is sort of like looking up symptoms on WebMD. I looked up some funky cough symptom I had once and it told me I had lung cancer. See what I'm saying?

So not a sociopath. I will add that there have been times when I needed help and couldn't get it. I have paid into the system, but becuase I work full time and I am "supposed" to be getting child support, I was denied. I have recently come to the conclusion that I am pissed off that I am paying into a system that I can't use when I desperatly needed it. Not for the long term, but just until I was standing on my feet again. I would rather work on my own, pay off my own medical bills, and start my own savings without the help of the government. There are too many stereotypes that revolve around people who get assictance and even though I struggle, I would rather bust through the barrier without being part of the system. I also feel that the money I earn (and should be able to use for me and my kids) should be mine to distribute however I so chose or not. It's not that I don't want to help others, but I want the option to chose where my money is going. If I have a friend or family member who is struggling I would rather all the money I pay in to the system go to them rather than to someone who abuses it.

jonnythan

I gotta love when a person who works a desk job gets all bent out of shape when minimum-wage part-time employees consider a strike.

What incentive would we have to work hard to improve our lives and get better jobs if all we have to do is beg for more money to get it?
My job is more skilled that a fast food job. I worked harder to get it and I work hard to maintain it. In my opinion, I deserve more money compensation than someone who flips burgers.
I don't have anything against anyone in a minimum wage paying job. But those jobs will always exist and someone will always need to do them. In general minimum wage jobs are for younger people as a stepping stone or older people as a supplemental income. I don't consider them a permanent career.

This is more or less the same logic that anti-vaccine people use. It's the very perks and comfort we as workers enjoy today that allow us to dismiss the hard work and tactics that got you those very perks.

No. The perks that we enjoy are because of the hard work it took to get us here. Who would endure the stress and responsibility of an advanced career if they could make the same wage at a fast food restaurant?

You completely missed the point. You worked hard, yes. But there are a lot of people in minimum wage jobs that have worked much harder than you.

The perks you enjoy aren't due just to your hard work. They are in large part due to the hard work of the people that came before you and set up the system in a way beneficial to you and provided you with significant developmental advantages.

I'd like more information on what these advantages are that I supposedly had.
And a fast food worker works harder that I do? How so?

Spend a year as a 10 year old living in a housing project with a nonexistent parent and a 4 year old younger brother. Let me know how hard it was to learn math compared to what you personally experienced.

ModernNerd

Here's a bizarre idea coming from a silly girl: reward results, not effort.

*mind blown*

:flowerforyou:

PSULions2008

I'm surprised no one has brought up how when people are paid better they tend to work harder and there is low turnover, which cuts down on training costs for businesses. If you pay people minimum wage, they will give you minimum effort.

But then again, I am taking a labor econ course this semester, so, maybe that isn't common knowledge.

That's what I was alluding to in my previous post. Maybe these companies such as McDonald's have done studies to find that paying employees minimum wage and having high turnover is no more profitable than paying a higher wage such as Costco and having less turnover. Who are you, I or anyone else to try to dictate one way or the other. If said employee wants a higher wage, what is stopping them from leaving and going to Costco.....other than they might actual have to work hard to earn that wage.

Because Costco has extremely low turnover. Surprise, surprise, since they pay well.

Did you even read my full post? I never disputed that.

ObstacleRacer

[That's how capitalism works. Examples: Costco, Trader Joes, Aldis, companies that pay well above minimum wage, and consistently earn record profits.

Yes but people go to those places because they offer good prices, or a product people are willing to pay a little more for.
Do you really think if a McDonalds worker is making $15/hr McD's will not have to cut overhead somewhere? Most likely there will price increases.
The business design is based on low pay, and typically hired students who need a flexible schedule and are willing to work a few years at min wage.
1.) Do you really think the service will get better if they make more $?
2.) How much do you think people will pay for a Big Mac?
Face it, fast food jobs are meant to get kids through school, help mom make a few extra bucks for Christmas, or provide a little extra income iin a pinch.
If you reach a point where you can't support you family on min wage, apply at Costco, Trader Joes, or Aldis.
That and stop making babies!

The CEO of McDonalds gave himself a $14 million dollar raise this year.

1.) Do you think he's become $14 million dollars better as a CEO?
2.) Has this lead to an increase in the price of a Big Mac?

Or is it only an issue when the poor want a raise?

ObstacleRacer

Here's a bizarre idea coming from a silly girl: reward results, not effort.

*mind blown*

McDonald's earned $1.5 Billion in profits in the last quarter. The employees making and selling food are the reason for that.

Judging them by their results would entitle them to a substantial raise indeed.

Sinisterly

Love how he didn't even reach for it and his hand just hung out.

vtmoon

I'm surprised no one has brought up how when people are paid better they tend to work harder and there is low turnover, which cuts down on training costs for businesses. If you pay people minimum wage, they will give you minimum effort.

But then again, I am taking a labor econ course this semester, so, maybe that isn't common knowledge.

We already established Experimental economics was Hokus Pokus, now we are adding Labor Economics. Actually, let' just prevent this issue the rest of the thread. So beside these two, you are not allowed to use Normative economics, positive economics, public economics, or any form of Game Theory in this thread to help prove your point. Only perfect condition supply and demand, the work force is fully informed and is fluid and can move across the country to a new job with no cost , also has zero life issues (medical, kids, disabilities).

Now that we got that figured out, please proceed.

wheird

So the gov't should just let people starve? No way jose.


So you view the government as your nanny. Pathetic.

i make well over minimum wage. I do not view the government as a nanny. However there are thousands of starving children and families that are already suffering with government aide. If that were taken away many would die. who do you think you are?

Well, why is any of that -my- problem?

Because not caring about other people is a sign of a sociopath.

Are you insinuating that I am a sociopath?

I'm saying that a lack of empathy is one of the signs of a sociopath.

Thank you for this Fun Fact, despite being irrelevant?

If you truly, truly don't care if children die in the streets, and you aren't just saying that to make a point, then I suggest you talk to a psychologist.

Yes, I was just making a point. Which I later expanded upon. And I never said I didn't care.

Hell, I can't even watch the abused animal adoption commercials.

ktsmom430

Bring it on!
I will quit my salaried job and go to work for one of the fast food franchises. No more 60+ hours per week for 40 hour pay and lower stress level.
Back in my day, these were jobs were never intended to support a family.
Just wondering, will skilled jobs wages increase to compensate?

vzduoi

No. $8.00 an hour is not enough to live on. $10-$15/hr seems like a lot to us because we've been conditioned to think minimum wage is enough to survive. As someone who's worked a number of minimum wage jobs, I can tell you it is impossible to cover all the necessities (rent, gas, electric,food, transportation) on such low wages. Yes, people are owed enough money to survive with the basics and deserve a little extra to prepare for emergencies. **** you and anyone else who thinks that just because it is a low skill job it doesn't deserve fair compensation. I won't be returning to this thread to see any replies, so don't bother trying to debate me.

eric_sg61

Just wondering, will skilled jobs wages increase to compensate?

Nope, cause those people wanted to better themselves and don't deserve it.

wheird

[That's how capitalism works. Examples: Costco, Trader Joes, Aldis, companies that pay well above minimum wage, and consistently earn record profits.

Yes but people go to those places because they offer good prices, or a product people are willing to pay a little more for.
Do you really think if a McDonalds worker is making $15/hr McD's will not have to cut overhead somewhere? Most likely there will price increases.
The business design is based on low pay, and typically hired students who need a flexible schedule and are willing to work a few years at min wage.
1.) Do you really think the service will get better if they make more $?
2.) How much do you think people will pay for a Big Mac?
Face it, fast food jobs are meant to get kids through school, help mom make a few extra bucks for Christmas, or provide a little extra income iin a pinch.
If you reach a point where you can't support you family on min wage, apply at Costco, Trader Joes, or Aldis.
That and stop making babies!

The CEO of McDonalds gave himself a $14 million dollar raise this year.

1.) Do you think he's become $14 million dollars better as a CEO?
2.) Has this lead to an increase in the price of a Big Mac?

Or is it only an issue when the poor want a raise?

Are McDonald's mostly franchisee owned or corporate owned?

PennyM140

I gotta love when a person who works a desk job gets all bent out of shape when minimum-wage part-time employees consider a strike.

What incentive would we have to work hard to improve our lives and get better jobs if all we have to do is beg for more money to get it?
My job is more skilled that a fast food job. I worked harder to get it and I work hard to maintain it. In my opinion, I deserve more money compensation than someone who flips burgers.
I don't have anything against anyone in a minimum wage paying job. But those jobs will always exist and someone will always need to do them. In general minimum wage jobs are for younger people as a stepping stone or older people as a supplemental income. I don't consider them a permanent career.

This is more or less the same logic that anti-vaccine people use. It's the very perks and comfort we as workers enjoy today that allow us to dismiss the hard work and tactics that got you those very perks.

No. The perks that we enjoy are because of the hard work it took to get us here. Who would endure the stress and responsibility of an advanced career if they could make the same wage at a fast food restaurant?

You completely missed the point. You worked hard, yes. But there are a lot of people in minimum wage jobs that have worked much harder than you.

The perks you enjoy aren't due just to your hard work. They are in large part due to the hard work of the people that came before you and set up the system in a way beneficial to you and provided you with significant developmental advantages.

I'd like more information on what these advantages are that I supposedly had.
And a fast food worker works harder that I do? How so?

Spend a year as a 10 year old living in a housing project with a nonexistent parent and a 4 year old younger brother. Let me know how hard it was to learn math compared to what you personally experienced.

What makes you ASSUME that you know anything about my life and the things that I have endured and overcome? I'm not about to air my past here in public but if you want to have a pissing contest over who's childhood was rougher feel free to PM me.
And you didn't answer my question. How does a minimum wage worker work harder than I do? They don't. They have less responsibility and are paid accordingly as it should be.