Please explain low carbs and it's magical proprieties
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C'mon Steve. How about addressing the questions posed. The absence of response speaks legions.
It'll be awhile - no internet in the detention room.0 -
I would never ever mock someone or think less of them because they don't have a bunch of degrees, some of my smartest friends didn't finish high school. I myself don't have a science related education, but that's why I'm not participating in the actual discussion about molecular biology. I DO know enough to tell when someone is saying crap that doesn't make sense and then being condescending towards the people who know what they're talking about, and that's what p*ssed me off. If a person is going to sit there and be like "I'm here to answer all your questions and correct misinformation about a specific subject that generally requires a great deal of study and knowledge" then they should probably have at least some qualifications, is all I'm saying lol
I wouldn't mock someone for the absence of degrees or a specific education but when someone insults an education (which is what Steve has done) or the work of researchers (again) then I think he's fair game. However, I'm staying away from the personal teasing (which he isn't) basically because that is the ground I want to stand on. I don't see anything wrong with the responses he has elicited given how he's handled himself.
Btw - this isn't really a discussion about molecular biology - he's not bringing content much to the table.0 -
No education shaming shaming hear. Steve said I was endearing and wondered what my level of education was (rather than respond to any number of actual published research studies many have supplied). This led to us speculating on his level of education. Since I assume he is in the US, a high school education or equivalent degree is mandatory. That is why I guessed his to be that.0
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bumping cuz I ran outta time at work :happy:0
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I would never ever mock someone or think less of them because they don't have a bunch of degrees, some of my smartest friends didn't finish high school. I myself don't have a science related education, but that's why I'm not participating in the actual discussion about molecular biology. I DO know enough to tell when someone is saying crap that doesn't make sense and then being condescending towards the people who know what they're talking about, and that's what p*ssed me off. If a person is going to sit there and be like "I'm here to answer all your questions and correct misinformation about a specific subject that generally requires a great deal of study and knowledge" then they should probably have at least some qualifications, is all I'm saying lol
This.
Honestly, I am beginning to suspect that Steve is a Master Troll.
I'm not even being ugly here.
If he's a troll, he makes the infamous "Pastry Chef" thread creator look like a novice.0 -
Id say take it a step further and get the chemicals out of the food. You will be healthier and would lower medical costs in the country. Out of curiosity didnt charles atkins die from heart failure related to his diet? I swear I read that somewhere.0
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Dr. Atkins died after slipping and hitting his head on an icy sidewalk. Had nothing to do with his diet.Id say take it a step further and get the chemicals out of the food. You will be healthier and would lower medical costs in the country. Out of curiosity didnt charles atkins die from heart failure related to his diet? I swear I read that somewhere.
As for "getting the chemicals out of food," that's just a ridiculously uneducated thing to say. All food is chemicals. Everything you eat is a chemical. All vitamins are chemicals, all proteins are chemicals, all fats are chemicals. Hell, your entire body is made up of 100% chemicals.0 -
For the same calories, you should have the same weight effects.
For me, though, when I eat carbs, I tend to crave more carbs, and then I crave even more carbs after that, and I end up eating a lot more. So for me, the point is not that it's low carb, but that it's high protein and fat. With protein and fat, I stay full, I don't get cravings, and I stay on my caloric target better.
^^This^^ Ultimately, it's all about the calories burned and the calories eaten. BUT, keeping insulin (the fat-storage and "fat-protecting" hormone) in check is a large part of activating glucagon (the fat-activating hormone--making body fat available for burning as energy) in the body. Many obese people find that a lower carb diet is the only way that they can not experience extreme hunger (from too much insulin). When you run chronically low blood sugar for a while (from following a lower carb diet) it backs off your insulin production. A lot of people with normal insulin response find the lower carb diet extremely unpleasant. But it is usually quite well-accepted by most obese folk. The one thing you DON"T want to do is go lower carb AND low fat at the same time (in other words a very low calorie diet)--it will make you sick. One or the other is okay although a lot of docs are coming around to the point of view that a diet high in refined carbohydrates (sugar and processed food) is very bad for obese people. It should be noted that a lower carb diet is not the same as a very low carb diet (a ketogenic diet). I follow a lower carb diet (60-120 grams of carb per day, with the higher amounts on days when I am very active). I also take breaks from it and go on maintenance calories to try to combat adaptive thermogenesis (a major problem for the formerly obese).0 -
Not all calories are the same. Calories from ESSENTIAL fats and protein are used for cell growth and repair. I don't know exactly what proportion of the calories consumed from fats and protein foods are initially used up for cell growth and repair but what is certain is that sugary and starchy food rich in carbohydrates are simply the body's main source of energy. And, if you consume more fuel (carbohydrate and sugar) than your body requires for energy, the excess is laid down as fat. Hence, the partial truth of conventional wisdom that insists calorie counting is the one and only way to lose weight. However, given that there's is no such thing as ESSENTIAL carbohydrates or sugar, it makes sense to me to first meet the body's calorific requirement for essential nutrients i.e. fats and protein before indulging in a carbohydrate 'fest'. Furthermore, a diet richer in protein and fat is proven to satiate hunger and thereby reduces the urge to snack between meals, which naturally reduces calorific intake. Thus, without calorie counting or ever feeling hungry, you can more easily lose weight by eating nutrient dense foods like vegetables, grass-fed meats and responsibly sourced fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds and plenty of good fats like olive oil, avocados, coconut and good quality butter. Magic :-)
^^THIS^^0 -
Skip the heart disease diet and center your diet around fruits and vegetables.I need it explained in simple terms from those who swear by it. I feel like a moron but I really do not understand how you can lose faster than just a calories deficit and I am not talking about glycogen or water weight. My friend is doing it but is unable to explain how it work lol
Thank you0 -
Not that, as it ignores the huge elephant in the room. As that post said, carbs are your main energy source. In the absence of carbs, your body will use the protein and fat you eat as energy instead, as you are still in a calorie deficit, and the body needs the energy and has to get it from somewhere (when you eat your body shifts into the "fed" state, where it prioritizes food calories for energy over stored calories.) By keeping carbs up at a reasonable level, your body utilizes the carbs for energy, which frees up some of the fat and protein you eat to be utilized for other things.Not all calories are the same. Calories from ESSENTIAL fats and protein are used for cell growth and repair. I don't know exactly what proportion of the calories consumed from fats and protein foods are initially used up for cell growth and repair but what is certain is that sugary and starchy food rich in carbohydrates are simply the body's main source of energy. And, if you consume more fuel (carbohydrate and sugar) than your body requires for energy, the excess is laid down as fat. Hence, the partial truth of conventional wisdom that insists calorie counting is the one and only way to lose weight. However, given that there's is no such thing as ESSENTIAL carbohydrates or sugar, it makes sense to me to first meet the body's calorific requirement for essential nutrients i.e. fats and protein before indulging in a carbohydrate 'fest'. Furthermore, a diet richer in protein and fat is proven to satiate hunger and thereby reduces the urge to snack between meals, which naturally reduces calorific intake. Thus, without calorie counting or ever feeling hungry, you can more easily lose weight by eating nutrient dense foods like vegetables, grass-fed meats and responsibly sourced fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds and plenty of good fats like olive oil, avocados, coconut and good quality butter. Magic :-)
^^THIS^^0 -
I have been on a ketogenic diet since 3/17/13. I have lost 164lbs since then, pretty much just from eating a low carb high fat diet. The only real exercise I do is walking a few miles every other day. Since you pretty much cut out all carbs your body switches from running on glucose to running on ketones. Ketones are made by converting the stored fat in your body. The general percentages a person on keto or a LCHF diet eats are 65%-70% calories from fat, 25%-30% from protein, and 5% from carbs. 20g carbs is my limit, but I try to keep it as close to 0 as I can.0
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This is a valid question Yanicka, and I'm sure I'm going to get a whole bunch of bloggers on MFP attacking me on this, but I will give it a go anyway....
I discovered LCHF, which stands for low carb high fat, on a business trip to Scandinavia. It is a low carb diet that in 2008 was endorsed by the Swedish health and welfare board, which is the first time in history that a low carb diet was ever endorsed by a national health board. When I returned home, I decided to take the plunge and go on the diet, and after being on it for several months, I cannot believe how well it works, not only for weight loss but also skin cleared up, sleep better, more energy, no more hunger pains, allergies gone, etc. I've been on MFP for a long time, without success, and it wasn't until I switched to LCHF that I finally figured it out and consistently losing at least 1 lb per week. I'm also noticing the LCHF is picking up speed in other parts of the world, including US and Canada, endorsed by medical doctors and universities with medical faculty.
The low carb diet is based on the premise that we have two metabolic regimes: glycolysis and ketosis. We have these two metabolic states because of the survival mechanisms that we inherited through evolution. These two metabolic regimes control two very important hormones, called insulin and leptin. Insulin controls the amount of sugar we ingest that is stored as fat, and leptin controls the signal that goes back to the brain saying "stop eating, I'm full". During the glycolysis regime, insulin is promoted to convert sugar to fat and store fat, while the leptin hormone signal is blocked - result is sugar is stored as fat, and brain doesn't get the "stop eating, I'm full signal". During ketosis, insulin levels remain low, and therefore depressed or no conversion of sugar to fat, and leptin signal does not get blocked, telling the brain "stop eating, I'm full" when sufficient food is eaten.
Through evolutionary process, we developed survival mechanism to thrive through changes in food availability during the seasons. During seasons when there is high carb foods available (like strawberries, peaches, etc) the advantageous metabolic regime is glycolysis - because it "fattens" you up in preparation for the subsequent "lean" seasons, and your leptin signal is blocked, so it causes you to "gorge". During the season without availability of high carb foods, your body survives perfectly well on ketosis, eating mainly a protein and fat rich diet (I.e. Animal rich diet and not much fruit) as well as burning your body's stored fat and leptin signal gets to your brain telling you to stop eating when full. We live in a modern food economy, where with agricultural and transport industry, we no longer have seasonal food deprivation (I.e. Strawberries are available year round). Also, the work it used to take to gather foods has been minimized with mechanical means, so for a few cents today you can have a huge plate of spaghetti - imagine what it would take if you were to make pasta noodles from grain sources without use of machines or tools. We are in permanent glycolysis metabolic state, no more need for ketosis for survival, and therefore in a state with insulin levels promoting fat storage, and leptin blocking the "I'm full, stop eating" signal. As a result, to stay lean in a permanent glycolysis state (which is possible) you must expend many hours at the gym, burning your calories - seems a bit silly (why eat calories to burn them at the gym - it's like forcing yourself to make more money so that you can buy more pairs of jeans, when you only need a couple of jeans to begin with).
A good site providing free advice on LCHF by a medical doctor is www.dietdoctor.com. There are no gimmicks, no powders, no bars....just real science based advice and real food discussed. There are also universities with medical faculty who endorse and provide science-based evidence on health benefits of low carb eating, like the university of California at San Francisco.
Ok, I know what's going to happen now....a bevy of bloggers who are going to rip this apart. Some are pretty outright nasty commentators, and many of which in past blogs have told me that there is nothing wrong with eating highly processed food, fast food, junk food and sodas. Meanwhile, the obesity and diabetes 2 epidemic is getting out of control and will soon present a terrible challenge to the healthcare industry and taxpayers. Here's a thought...how about if we eat foods that does not cause fat gain, food addiction or hunger pains, and that does not require us to spend hours in the gym. How about if we eat real food, resembling what it looks like from animal or plant origin, instead of processed garbage. How about if we reduce our carbon footprint, and not have industrial food industry making highly processed junk, and shipping it all over the place. How about if we don't eat more due to food addictions, saving money on food, and being healthier? Why not endorse an eating lifestyle that promotes eating REAL FOOD with a macronutrient proportion that does not promote fat storage and diabetes?
^^This^^^ Good job. One major problem that many obese women have is that they are leptin-resistant. Leptin resistance precedes and predicts insulin resistance, if no intervention is taken. (It should be understood that body fat is NOT metabolically inactive--it doesn't just sit there--it puts out the hormone, leptin). You are correct in saying that the problem is that there is a lack of response to the leptin. Women develop leptin resistance more easily than men for a variety of reasons having to do with the interaction of their hormones. Their leptin levels are 2 to 3 times that of men at the same body fat level. Over time, their bodies no longer respond to leptin and they eat and eat and eat...0 -
Not that, as it ignores the huge elephant in the room. As that post said, carbs are your main energy source. In the absence of carbs, your body will use the protein and fat you eat as energy instead, as you are still in a calorie deficit, and the body needs the energy and has to get it from somewhere (when you eat your body shifts into the "fed" state, where it prioritized food calories for energy over stored calories.) By keeping carbs up at a reasonable level, your body utilizes the carbs for energy, which frees up some of the fat and protein you eat to be utilized for other things.Not all calories are the same. Calories from ESSENTIAL fats and protein are used for cell growth and repair. I don't know exactly what proportion of the calories consumed from fats and protein foods are initially used up for cell growth and repair but what is certain is that sugary and starchy food rich in carbohydrates are simply the body's main source of energy. And, if you consume more fuel (carbohydrate and sugar) than your body requires for energy, the excess is laid down as fat. Hence, the partial truth of conventional wisdom that insists calorie counting is the one and only way to lose weight. However, given that there's is no such thing as ESSENTIAL carbohydrates or sugar, it makes sense to me to first meet the body's calorific requirement for essential nutrients i.e. fats and protein before indulging in a carbohydrate 'fest'. Furthermore, a diet richer in protein and fat is proven to satiate hunger and thereby reduces the urge to snack between meals, which naturally reduces calorific intake. Thus, without calorie counting or ever feeling hungry, you can more easily lose weight by eating nutrient dense foods like vegetables, grass-fed meats and responsibly sourced fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds and plenty of good fats like olive oil, avocados, coconut and good quality butter. Magic :-)
^^THIS^^
No--our bodies can easily flip to burning body fat for energy. If not, the human race would have become extinct long ago.0 -
Comprehension fart. The body on a continual basis utilizes stored fat as energy along with other sources and how much stays stored will depend on the bodies total daily calorie needs vs intake.
Not that, as it ignores the huge elephant in the room. As that post said, carbs are your main energy source. In the absence of carbs, your body will use the protein and fat you eat as energy instead, as you are still in a calorie deficit, and the body needs the energy and has to get it from somewhere (when you eat your body shifts into the "fed" state, where it prioritized food calories for energy over stored calories.) By keeping carbs up at a reasonable level, your body utilizes the carbs for energy, which frees up some of the fat and protein you eat to be utilized for other things.Not all calories are the same. Calories from ESSENTIAL fats and protein are used for cell growth and repair. I don't know exactly what proportion of the calories consumed from fats and protein foods are initially used up for cell growth and repair but what is certain is that sugary and starchy food rich in carbohydrates are simply the body's main source of energy. And, if you consume more fuel (carbohydrate and sugar) than your body requires for energy, the excess is laid down as fat. Hence, the partial truth of conventional wisdom that insists calorie counting is the one and only way to lose weight. However, given that there's is no such thing as ESSENTIAL carbohydrates or sugar, it makes sense to me to first meet the body's calorific requirement for essential nutrients i.e. fats and protein before indulging in a carbohydrate 'fest'. Furthermore, a diet richer in protein and fat is proven to satiate hunger and thereby reduces the urge to snack between meals, which naturally reduces calorific intake. Thus, without calorie counting or ever feeling hungry, you can more easily lose weight by eating nutrient dense foods like vegetables, grass-fed meats and responsibly sourced fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds and plenty of good fats like olive oil, avocados, coconut and good quality butter. Magic :-)
^^THIS^^
No--our bodies can easily flip to burning body fat for energy. If not, the human race would have become extinct long ago.0 -
The body only burns so much body fat. It also burns a lot of lean muscle. In fact, during starvation you lose muscle and fat at a roughly 50/50 rate. This allows the body to stretch out the body fat, thereby staving off "extinction."
Not that, as it ignores the huge elephant in the room. As that post said, carbs are your main energy source. In the absence of carbs, your body will use the protein and fat you eat as energy instead, as you are still in a calorie deficit, and the body needs the energy and has to get it from somewhere (when you eat your body shifts into the "fed" state, where it prioritized food calories for energy over stored calories.) By keeping carbs up at a reasonable level, your body utilizes the carbs for energy, which frees up some of the fat and protein you eat to be utilized for other things.Not all calories are the same. Calories from ESSENTIAL fats and protein are used for cell growth and repair. I don't know exactly what proportion of the calories consumed from fats and protein foods are initially used up for cell growth and repair but what is certain is that sugary and starchy food rich in carbohydrates are simply the body's main source of energy. And, if you consume more fuel (carbohydrate and sugar) than your body requires for energy, the excess is laid down as fat. Hence, the partial truth of conventional wisdom that insists calorie counting is the one and only way to lose weight. However, given that there's is no such thing as ESSENTIAL carbohydrates or sugar, it makes sense to me to first meet the body's calorific requirement for essential nutrients i.e. fats and protein before indulging in a carbohydrate 'fest'. Furthermore, a diet richer in protein and fat is proven to satiate hunger and thereby reduces the urge to snack between meals, which naturally reduces calorific intake. Thus, without calorie counting or ever feeling hungry, you can more easily lose weight by eating nutrient dense foods like vegetables, grass-fed meats and responsibly sourced fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds and plenty of good fats like olive oil, avocados, coconut and good quality butter. Magic :-)
^^THIS^^
No--our bodies can easily flip to burning body fat for energy. If not, the human race would have become extinct long ago.
Your body never runs on pure stored fat. It's always a ratio of adipose fat, lean muscle protein, dietary protein, dietary fat, glucose, ketone bodies, and glycogen. Anyone that claims otherwise is flat out wrong.
The ratios change based on activity, and when you eat, the ratio swings quite heavily toward the dietary food, again, to conserve the body fat that will allow the species to survive a famine period.0 -
Tiger'sword: "...Your body never runs on pure stored fat. It's always a ratio of adipose fat, lean muscle protein, dietary protein, dietary fat, glucose, ketone bodies, and glycogen. Anyone that claims otherwise is flat out wrong.
The ratios change based on activity, and when you eat, the ratio swings quite heavily toward the dietary food, again, to conserve the body fat that will allow the species to survive a famine period..."
True. That is why I choose to eat lower carbs. For a variety of reasons, lower carb eating makes it much easier to control caloric intake and energy output and lose weight slowly. I find that the slower the weight loss, the greater the probability that I will lose body fat preferentially--especially if I am challenging my muscles on a regular basis and taking breaks from caloric deficit.0 -
Id say take it a step further and get the chemicals out of the food. You will be healthier and would lower medical costs in the country. Out of curiosity didnt charles atkins die from heart failure related to his diet? I swear I read that somewhere.
Strong first post. Because chemicals.0 -
Skip the heart disease diet and center your diet around fruits and vegetables.I need it explained in simple terms from those who swear by it. I feel like a moron but I really do not understand how you can lose faster than just a calories deficit and I am not talking about glycogen or water weight. My friend is doing it but is unable to explain how it work lol
Thank you
In...
...again...
...to learn more about specifically which diet is causing the heart disease.0 -
Holy cow. Just when I thought a thread couldn't go stranger.... Well, MFP never ceases to amaze.
All we need now is the sugar lady.0 -
where is buddy? is he in here too???0
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IRL, someone actually told me that potatoes are bad because they're white, and white foods are bad for you. :noway:
Sigh.0 -
Wow! Overnight the already high level of derp got even derpier! Amazing. First we just had the guy who read one textbook lecturing professional, published research scientists on science. Now we got the fruititarian and the Sante in the mix.0
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If you can, go watch the documentary "The Perfect Human Diet"--it'll give you a better idea of how our bodies use our food, particularly how it deals with sugars (& carbohydrates which convert into sugars) FIRST in its energy breakdown process because it is a much easier chemically to break down than proteins and fats. When you get all of your energy from the breakdown of sugar, the fats and protein are stored for later use. The basic premise of eating low carb is that you're depriving your body of the "easy" energy source and making it work harder by breaking down more complex chemical compounds. (This is why low carb diets such as Atkins allow limited "complex carbohydrates" as they take much longer to break down.)
The documentary delves into blood sugar/insulin spikes and how that makes us hungry more often, too, but it's been a while since I've watched it so I'm not going to reiterate science that I can't fully remember.
THIS0 -
No, not this, not even close. The agenda ......sugar and insulin is bad. Reality....eating too many calories get stored as body fat. Regardless of the multiple energy sources the body draws on, it will always be about calories in and out, period.If you can, go watch the documentary "The Perfect Human Diet"--it'll give you a better idea of how our bodies use our food, particularly how it deals with sugars (& carbohydrates which convert into sugars) FIRST in its energy breakdown process because it is a much easier chemically to break down than proteins and fats. When you get all of your energy from the breakdown of sugar, the fats and protein are stored for later use. The basic premise of eating low carb is that you're depriving your body of the "easy" energy source and making it work harder by breaking down more complex chemical compounds. (This is why low carb diets such as Atkins allow limited "complex carbohydrates" as they take much longer to break down.)
The documentary delves into blood sugar/insulin spikes and how that makes us hungry more often, too, but it's been a while since I've watched it so I'm not going to reiterate science that I can't fully remember.
THIS0 -
No, not this, not even close. The agenda ......sugar and insulin is bad. Reality....eating too many calories get stored as body fat. Regardless of the multiple energy sources the body draws on, it will always be about calories in and out, period.If you can, go watch the documentary "The Perfect Human Diet"--it'll give you a better idea of how our bodies use our food, particularly how it deals with sugars (& carbohydrates which convert into sugars) FIRST in its energy breakdown process because it is a much easier chemically to break down than proteins and fats. When you get all of your energy from the breakdown of sugar, the fats and protein are stored for later use. The basic premise of eating low carb is that you're depriving your body of the "easy" energy source and making it work harder by breaking down more complex chemical compounds. (This is why low carb diets such as Atkins allow limited "complex carbohydrates" as they take much longer to break down.)
The documentary delves into blood sugar/insulin spikes and how that makes us hungry more often, too, but it's been a while since I've watched it so I'm not going to reiterate science that I can't fully remember.
THIS
This.
And I would be leery of anything seen on TV about diet. Or on the Dr. Oz show.
The best source for solid information is Guyton's textbook on Medical Physiology.
Doctors should know this stuff cold but most don't, or don't care to be confrontational to their overweight patients.
And the Essenes. Don't forget the Essenes.0 -
Bump0
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Lean muscle is in a constant state of breakdown and repair. When muscle is broken down, it gets used for energy. Dietary protein is used to build it back up. If the dietary protein is forced to be used for energy instead (due to too high a deficit) then the muscle that was broken down during routine maintenance can't be properly repaired. This is why people usually lose lean mass during weight loss instead of 100% fat loss (which is for all practical purposes, impossible.)Tiger'sword: "...Your body never runs on pure stored fat. It's always a ratio of adipose fat, lean muscle protein, dietary protein, dietary fat, glucose, ketone bodies, and glycogen. Anyone that claims otherwise is flat out wrong.
The ratios change based on activity, and when you eat, the ratio swings quite heavily toward the dietary food, again, to conserve the body fat that will allow the species to survive a famine period..."
True. That is why I choose to eat lower carbs. For a variety of reasons, lower carb eating makes it much easier to control caloric intake and energy output and lose weight slowly. I find that the slower the weight loss, the greater the probability that I will lose body fat preferentially--especially if I am challenging my muscles on a regular basis and taking breaks from caloric deficit.
Nobody loses fat preferentially. With a negative calorie deficit, it comes off where it wants to. Certainly, you can exercise muscles and get size and definition in a particular group if you want, but where the fat comes off is out of your control.
Of course, if you take a drug like prednisone chronically, then fat will accumulate certain areas giving the classic cushingnoid look.
And tigersword is wrong in taking about "lean" muscle used for fuel. That is ONLY as a last resort and only after COMPLETE fasting for many days.
What is in the amino acid pool is the breakdown products of LABILE protein, i.e. the protein found in enzymes and smooth muscle and other places that the body can do without, and that can be replaced once the conditions change.
This is a big difference.
When the body is stressed, and glycogen stores run below a certain level, these LABILE proteins (not lean skeletal muscle or brain protein) are broken down with their amino acids being used in the production of glucose.
In the normal state or moderately stressed, the brain can only use glucose for fuel, so this process, called gluconeogenesis, is a basic process. After days of starvation, the brain does adapt and can use ketone bodies for up to 60% of the fuel it needs.
Ketone bodies are produced in the liver when it is overloaded with 2-carbon units and there is no need to use them for anything else.0 -
Wow! Overnight the already high level of derp got even derpier! Amazing. First we just had the guy who read one textbook lecturing professional, published research scientists on science. Now we got the fruititarian and the Sante in the mix.
The word "fruititarian" always makes me think of "Time Machine," of the people who did nothing but laugh and play all day, like children...
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Bump
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