Please explain low carbs and it's magical proprieties

QuietBloom

That is the trouble with the internet.

People don't know what they don't know.

There is a difference between fat CELLS and the fat MOLECULES, called triclycerides that make up what is inside the fat cell.

The fat cell itself is a modified fibroblast.

If it does not contain any triglycerides, then it will be small. If has to serve as a storage depot for triglycerides, then it will swell to over fifty times it size.

The fat cells are a relative constant, though, as a said in a previous post, all cells are in a constant state of turnover. The turnover for fat cells may indeed be 10 percent a year. I would have to double check. Sounds reasonable.

But the turnover of the triclycerides, the total stored in the fat cells, are less than three months.

The triglycerides are constantly being broken down into glycerol and free fatty acids in a 1:3 ratio, transported back to the liver, reformulated, broken down again in the liver, released into the serum, and picked up by the adipose tissue cells, which repackage them as triglycerides and store them.

If the FFA and glycerol are needed for fuel, then the muscle cells will pick them and the total supply will drop.

Basic metabolism and physiology.

In Guyton's.

And all of this is in that book that you dismissed so smugly after reading the freebie ten pages on Kindle.

So, not to be petty, that is the problem here. People don't realize how complicated the human body is.

I am still concerned about your hostility.

Where does it come from?

What is your background?

You initially said fat Steve. Stop trying to move the goal posts. Fatty acids come from fat stores (fat cells).

I am a research scientist who gets very annoyed with someone pretending to have a science background who speaks with authority on subjects he knows nothing about.

Please address your misstep when you said that complete adipocyte turnover occurs every month.

In fact we KNOW this is untrue, because of studies done on DDT and how the body stores it in fat cells. And it is only when the fat is utilized by the body, that the toxin is released into the blood stream.

Mr_Knight

Adipose tissue turnover is a well-described phenomenon. Turns over in about three weeks.

This is a complete fantasy, as even a rudimentary understanding of human metabolism would demonstrate. An average human being would have to consume 5000 calories per day ABOVE AND BEYOND all their other energy needs to make that happen.

I have no idea where you have gotten this preposterous notion, but that is exactly what it is - preposterous.

Mr_Knight

But the turnover of the triclycerides, the total stored in the fat cells, are less than three months.

Now your claim has gone from three weeks to three months? I see.

It's still wrong.

The correct answer is 18-24 months. And that timeframe gets longer as obesity goes up. Fat cells turn over about every 10 years (for non-obese persons), fat cell contents turn over about six times as fast (for non-obese persons).

DSTMT

I need it explained in simple terms from those who swear by it. I feel like a moron but I really do not understand how you can lose faster than just a calories deficit and I am not talking about glycogen or water weight. My friend is doing it but is unable to explain how it work lol

Thank you

It works by restoring your natural appetite. Do you remember when you were a kid and your were outside playing and your mom had to make you come in to eat? Once you sat down and started eating you realized you were starving and ate until your were full and then stopped eating and didn't eat again until you were hungry. Eating a high carb/sugar diet (I'm assuming that was the cause, I don't actually know) threw that normal appetite out of whack. I was constantly eating because I was always hungry. Even if I wasn't physically hungry I had an anxious, I-need-to-eat type of feeling that is horrible so you eat to make it go away but you never really get full. So of course you're going to pack on the pounds.

The usual reason given for that is that it's all in your head. They call you an "emotional eater" and tell you you have to figure out what feelings your stuffing down with food. And then there's all the tricks -- journal how you're feeling when you ate, put your fork down between each bite, drink a glass of water before each meal... the list goes on and on.

Guess what? In a matter of three or four weeks eating a low carb, high fat diet all of that went away and I have a normal appetite again for the first time in years. I get hungry, I eat and then I'm satisfied and don't eat again until I'm hungry. I can not even describe how it feels to go from being constantly hungry to having a normal appetite again. I believe at the time I used the word miraculous to describe it and I still feel that way.

I don't know the biological mechanisms for why this happens but it is real. I lose weight because of a calories deficit, of course, but that is not really the reason why a low carb diet works for me. It works because it fixes the underlying cause for why I was over eating in the first place.

This was my experience as well. Eating a low carb diet doesn't mean you can magically eat more calories, it means that if you are someone whose blood sugar gets out of whack after consuming carbs, if you cut back you will find yourself eating less calories without as much effort, which would then help weight loss.

DSTMT

...that's why protein is so filling, because it spikes insulin.

Also, I'm not sure that's correct...when I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia, my GP told me to make sure I ate protein frequently, particularly when also eating sweets, specifically to counter-act the sugar and make sure my insulin DIDN'T spike. She said the protein would keep my blood sugar more level, and my insulin levels lower.



edited to fix quote

Yanicka1

...that's why protein is so filling, because it spikes insulin.

Also, I'm not sure that's correct...when I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia, my GP told me to make sure I ate protein frequently, particularly when also eating sweets, specifically to counter-act the sugar and make sure my insulin DIDN'T spike. She said the protein would keep my blood sugar more level, and my insulin levels lower.



edited to fix quote

High protein, virtually no-carb foods like meat and eggs, while low on the glycemic index, measured high on the insulin index

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insulin-index/#ixzz2n6L9d2SZ

WendyTerry420

In for more crackpot ideas.
Fat turnover does not occur in a month.
https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2011/Sep/NR-11-09-04.html

My fat turns over every night when I lay down to sleep.

EvgeniZyntx

In for more crackpot ideas.
Fat turnover does not occur in a month.
https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2011/Sep/NR-11-09-04.html

My fat turns over every night when I lay down to sleep.

Does he snore?

DamePiglet

My fat turns over every night when I lay down to sleep.

Does he snore?

BEST 2 quotes of the thread. Maybe the day.

Bravo, you two. Bravo! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

EvgeniZyntx

That is the trouble with the internet.

People don't know what they don't know.

There is a difference between fat CELLS and the fat MOLECULES, called triclycerides that make up what is inside the fat cell.

The fat cell itself is a modified fibroblast.

If it does not contain any triglycerides, then it will be small. If has to serve as a storage depot for triglycerides, then it will swell to over fifty times it size.

The fat cells are a relative constant, though, as a said in a previous post, all cells are in a constant state of turnover. The turnover for fat cells may indeed be 10 percent a year. I would have to double check. Sounds reasonable.

But the turnover of the triclycerides, the total stored in the fat cells, are less than three months.

The triglycerides are constantly being broken down into glycerol and free fatty acids in a 1:3 ratio, transported back to the liver, reformulated, broken down again in the liver, released into the serum, and picked up by the adipose tissue cells, which repackage them as triglycerides and store them.

If the FFA and glycerol are needed for fuel, then the muscle cells will pick them and the total supply will drop.

Basic metabolism and physiology.

In Guyton's.

And all of this is in that book that you dismissed so smugly after reading the freebie ten pages on Kindle.

So, not to be petty, that is the problem here. People don't realize how complicated the human body is.

I am still concerned about your hostility.

Where does it come from?

What is your background?

You initially said fat Steve. Stop trying to move the goal posts. Fatty acids come from fat stores (fat cells).

I am a research scientist who gets very annoyed with someone pretending to have a science background who speaks with authority on subjects he knows nothing about.

Please address your misstep when you said that complete adipocyte turnover occurs every month.

In fact we KNOW this is untrue, because of studies done on DDT and how the body stores it in fat cells. And it is only when the fat is utilized by the body, that the toxin is released into the blood stream.

Not 3 weeks and not less than three months. Steve I continues to post whatever....

Let's see what the link I posted earlier actually says.

New research in the Sept. 25 online edition of the journal Nature shows that the turnover (storage and loss rate) of fat in the human body is about 1 1/2 years compared to fat cells, which turnover about every 10 years, according to Bruce Buchholz of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and one of the authors of the report. See the movie for a description.

And while the turnover rate of fat is on average 1 1/2 years for normal weight people, the news is worse for the obese -- the fat removal rate from fat tissue decreases and the amount of fat stored each year increases. In contrast, fat storage and removal rates balance in non-obese people for no net increase in fat.

"There is a slower output of fat in obese people in this study," Buchholz said. "The fat is on average 2 years old compared to 1 1/2 years."

The team, which included researchers from Karolinska University Hospital, University of Lyon, Uppsala University, University of Vienna, RIKEN Yokohama Institute, Technische Universit Munich, Churchill Hospital and the Karolinska Institute, applied carbon dating to fat content found within subcutaneous adipose tissue, the major fat depot for humans.

Carbon dating is typically used in archaeology and paleontology to date the age of artifacts. However, in this application, the scientists used the pulse of radiocarbon to analyze the age of fat and how fast it turns over in humans.

Radiocarbon or carbon-14 is naturally produced by cosmic ray interactions with air and is present at low levels in the atmosphere and food. Its concentration remained relatively constant during the past 4,000 years, but atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons from 1950-1963 produced a global pulse in the amount of radiocarbon in the atmosphere, Buchholz said.

Since the nuclear test ban treaty, the amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere has decreased significantly. The carbon 14 diffuses out of the atmosphere and oxidizes to form carbon dioxide, which is taken up by plants. Since we eat plants or animals that live off of plants, the carbon 14 content in the atmosphere is directly mirrored in the human body.

Earlier research by Buchholz and colleagues at the Karolinska Institute showed that the number of fat cells in a human's body, whether lean or obese, is established during the teenage years. Changes in fat mass in adulthood can be attributed mainly to changes in fat cell volume, not an increase in the actual number of fat cells.

The new study found that fat, on average, is replaced six times during the life span of the 10-year fat cell, enabling a dynamic regulation of fat storage and movement over time.

"We found that a combination of high storage and low fat removal rates, as in obesity, facilitates fat accumulation within fatty tissue," Buchholz said. "This promotes the development or maintenance of excess body fat mass."

DamePiglet

And I will change my opinion on anything if shown the evidence.

I have seen no evidence of this being a correct statement.

tigersword

Here's a radical idea. If you're so convinced you're correct, cite your source, Steve. You mentioned Guyton's, so give us the citation for where this information is in the book. You know how to cite a source, right? Book, published edition, page number? Give us the quote, cite us the page it came from.

If you're convinced you're right, SHOW US THE EVIDENCE. That's how science works, not "oh you guys are wrong, it's in the book." That's not how scientific debate works. People have posted scientific studies refuting your claims, and all you've managed is to either change the goal posts (a logical fallacy) or insist your book is right (an appeal to authority, another logical fallacy.) how about giving us some actual empirical evidence?

DSTMT

All my posts are responding to people who have erroneous ideas on weight loss and how metabolism and the body works.

Steve, if you want to respond to someone who has erroneous ideas on how the body works, STOP POSTING erroneous "information"!

LOL.

Ever hear of Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology?

It's all in there.

But let's elevate things.

Bring up something I have misfired on and let's have an intelligent discussion.

The honest folks who are dealing with weight issues who read these threads deserve it.

lol maybe I'm dating myself, but reading these posts this is what I keep thinking about:

Otto West: Apes don’t read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it.

–A Fish Called Wanda

Mr_Knight

And I will change my opinion on anything if shown the evidence.

Dude, you can't replace old fat (cells, precursors, whatever) without supplying new building blocks through ingestion of excess fat, carbs and/or protein.

An average sized male at 20% body fat has 30 pounds of fat. That is over 100,000 calories worth of excess ingested food required to supply that fat, in the most optimistic case. 100,000 calories over your claimed 3 weeks is 5000 excess calories per day, every day - which ain't happening.

What you are suggesting violates the laws of physics. You are simply, plainly, wrong.

DamePiglet

Maintain a negative caloric balance through whatever method you chose and the fat will diminish.

DamePiglet

And I will change my opinion on anything if shown the evidence.

I have seen no evidence of this being a correct statement.

Are you the board police or something?

LOL.

HA!
Yes, yes I am!

QuietBloom

lol maybe I'm dating myself, but reading these posts this is what I keep thinking about:

Otto West: Apes don’t read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it.

–A Fish Called Wanda

QuietBloom

Ah Gyuten's.

__________________________



The twelfth edition of Guyton and Hall Textbook of Medical Physiology continues this best-selling title's long tradition as one of the world's favorite physiology textbooks. The immense success of this book is due to its description of complex physiologic principles in language that is easy to read and understand. Now with an improved color art program, thorough updates reflecting today's medicine and science, and accessible online at Student Consult, this textbook is an excellent source for mastering essential human physiology knowledge.

Learn and remember vital concepts easily thanks to short, easy-to-read, masterfully edited chapters and a user-friendly full-color design.
See core concepts applied to real-life situations with clinical vignettes throughout the text.
Discover the newest in physiology with updates that reflect the latest advances in molecular biology, cardiovascular, neurophysiology, and gastrointestinal topics.
Visualize physiologic principles clearly with over 1000 bold, full-color drawings and diagrams.
Distinguish core concepts from more in-depth material with a layout that uses gray shading to clearly differentiate between "need-to-know" and "nice-to-know" information.
Access the complete contents online at Student Consult along with bonus resources such as image banks, self-assessment questions, physiology animations, and more!

This new edition continues the long tradition of "Guyton" as one of the world's favorite physiology textbooks.

____________________________________________________________

Aw, a college textbook with pictures and stories! I think I read something like this in Biology 101.

Keep studying it Steve. You have lots to learn yet. And discover PubMed!! Textbooks cannot be expected to keep up as new research is constantly being published in journals.

I believe its latest update was in 2010. It's 4 years behind the times now.

Mr_Knight

The point for the obese is a psychological one.

Ah, I see, the ground shifts again and we've now abandoned all pretence of science.

Got it.

mel3491

My experience is that once you have powered through those first difficult 3 days of completely avoiding carbs you lose the craving. For some reason losing that 'bloat' comes right off your belly, face and motivation kicks in.. It works and I've tried 'em all!