Please explain low carbs and it's magical proprieties

AlabasterVerve

The only reason low-carb diets work is because people EAT FEWER CALORIES on them. Protein keeps you full longer, making it easier to eat less. There is also the effect of simple carbs spiking blood sugar, and then when it crashes down again you will fill hungry and want to eat immediately, that response happens far worse for some people than it does for others, complex carbs don't have that effect. When I tried low-carb, I eventually got so tired of looking at meat, that sometimes I chose not to eat anything simply because it didn't appeal to me.

Now I don't worry about carbs too much, I do however focus on getting enough protein, which helps keep my appetite under control. Most of my carbs do come from fruit and vegetables, but that is because I like the taste of those things more than I like the taste of bread and grains, not because I actively avoid grains.

The main problem with low carb diets is that they are hard, if not impossible, to maintain for life. Eventually, you decide that you really WANT that piece of fruit, or dinner roll, or slice of pie. The other problem is how they restrict fruit and even some vegetables, if you aren't careful, you can end up deficient in certain vitamins.

I eat a low carb diet and I eat far less protein than before because I was always hungry and everyone said it fills you up. Most days you eat double the amount of protein that I eat, some days almost triple. While I'm sure some people have been very successful eating a low carb/high protein diet -- or any other macro combination for that matter -- the appetite suppression that low carbs diets are known for doesn't come from the protein component of the diet, or at least not solely.

The problems you listed are only problems if you make them problems -- they're not inherently part of eating low carb. I've been eating this way for over a year and have no plans of changing that. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables and I'm happy to limit my indulgences to holidays and special occasions.

Low carb isn't for everyone, of course, but all of these "problems" people always list for the diet are not universal problems with a low carb diet itself but how the person goes about implementing it.

QuietBloom

I am a science guy and stumbled across his stuff.

And I am an angry guy over all the crap we see in the media about food in general, and breakfast in particular.

And all the diet food garbage, and the friggin' prime time TV shows where poor people are virtually whipped and humiliated into exercising to lose weight.

Do people have any self-respect at all?

I can foresee a future, and it might not be far off, when ads pushing breakfast will have to have disclaimers on them. When government agencies will run ads saying that it is OK to skip breakfast, and the NIH recommends it.

It is the obese who are victims of a culture that is driven by food consumption. All these breakfast food companies have real contempt for their customers.

What is the message that the current approaches to weight loss send to the obese? You have to work hard and sweat TO GET YOUR BODY DOWN TO A NORMAL WEIGHT. You have to RESIST WHAT YOUR BRAIN TELLS YOU IT WANTS TO EAT in order to get down to a normal weight.

The body is the enemy. Your body is betraying you. You must fight against it.

How psychologically healthy is that?

Is there any other animal species out there tht does pointless physical activity in order to burn off calories?

Of course not.

Lions will gorge themselves, but then they will lay around for days until they need to eat again.

But according the the "skip breakfast" theory, all you have to do is to force yourself to fast in the morning, and everything else will fall into place.

The human body is amazing like that.

But what is the usual response from those experts?

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day blah blah blah......got to get the metabolic machinery going blah blah blah.....got to maintain your glucose blah blah blah.....got to eat now or later you will REALLY be hungry and gorge yourself blah blah blah.....

Well, I am ranting here on an early Sunday morning (in Hawaii, though).

But Hagan and others will have a tough row to hoe, as will you if attempt to validate what little has been done in this area.

You can bet that EVERY commercial enterprise connected with dieting will not support you, or challenge you. And every breakfast food company will throw roadblocks in your way.

The obese who are sincerely trying to lose weight should be insulted....any angry!

end of rant.

Good night!

You say you are a science guy, yet you continually misinterpret scientific studies, and when asked about your credentials you demure.

As far as FORCING ourselves to eat breakfast? My body pretty much demands it. But I have always been of the mindset that one should eat when hungry. This is something you seem to have a great deal of trouble with, since you have spend many threads trying to explain why hunger is a false signal.

As far as comparing us to lions? :noway:

tigersword

Oh come on, don't call him out for trying to compare the behavior of completely different species with wholly different biological processes and physiologies, HE'S A SCIENCE GUY! I mean, come on, don't you know humans sleep 20 hours a day to conserve energy? Oh, wait...

QuietBloom

Oh come on, don't call him out for trying to compare the behavior of completely different species with wholly different biological processes and physiologies, HE'S A SCIENCE GUY! I mean, come on, don't you know humans sleep 20 hours a day to conserve energy? Oh, wait...

I'm thinking Hagan must be his special bestie. Science guy by proxy, you know...

This is assuming that Hagan is real and an actual scientist.

I see he is an MD with a book to sell. That makes me giggle.

tigersword

Of course, that's the book Steve keeps thumping as his Bible of everything in it must be 100% right damn the facts, I'll argue until I'm blue in the face even though I have no idea what I'm talking about and have apparently never read anything else about nutrition before.

Wetcoaster

More from Alan Aragon


5) Keto, most efficient way of cutting – this is rather an extension of the first question, but deserving of its own response due to the ongoing debates over the superiority (or inferiority) of Keto for cutting. Is it any more effective at burning fat than other diets? Or does eating under maintenance prevail as the winner regardless of the methods used? We know carbohydrates retain water, and proteins are diuretics. Can the initial effects of Keto be understood through the non-existent intake of the former and higher intake of the latter? (appearance of being leaner, with long-term Keto effects stabilizing on par with other diets) Or is Keto really the most optimal?



Alan: There’s nothing inherently special about keto in terms of fat-loss benefits. This has been shown repeatedly in long-term research that’s reasonably controlled (as opposed to the ad-libitum or free-living research) . It’s important to realize that the current research is not sufficient grounds to be dogmatic about low-carbing in the first place. Studies often do not match protein intakes between diets. Adequate protein intakes have multiple advantages (ie, LBM support, satiety, thermic effect), and they simply end up being compared to inadequate protein intakes. Thus, it’s not lower carb intake per se that imparts any advantage, it’s the higher protein intake.

Once you match protein intake between diets, the one with more carbs is actually the one with the potential for a slight metabolic advantage. In any case, there’s a large middle ground here that tends to get ignored by folks who believe in a ‘metabolic advantage’ of keto/low-carb. It’s always either-or for them, when in fact, individual carbohydrate demands vary widely depending upon personal tolerance & preference, not to mention individual goals. For some folks, low-carb is warranted. For others, it isn’t. It always amazes me how hard that concept is to grasp for keto absolutists.

Rachlovesfitness

Not going to bother..... do your own research and TRY it if you are so inclined.

Yet you spent your precious time responding at all?

Anya1982

BBC documentary on Atkins and low carb diets will help you understand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vex4iFkTPww

Anya1982

BBC documentary on Atkins and low carb diets will help you understand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vex4iFkTPww

takumaku

Nothing magical. I have reactive hypo, so I can explain it from my standpoint.

High simple sugar, low fat, low protein meal --> huge surge of glucose into the system --> glucose rises quickly --> pancreas overcompensates and dumps huge amount of insulin into the system --> liver (I believe) responds late to the huge surge of insulin, causes low blood sugar --> body panics because of low blood sugar and releases it's hormone to eat more ... --> I feel like crap. This high/low causes me to chase the rabbit and eat more. Excess calorie consumption leads to weight gain.

Higher protein, moderate fat, moderate low-gi, high fiber meal --> delayed emptying of glucose into the system --> glucoses rises moderately --> pancreas responds appropriately --> liver responds appropriately --> body doesn't panic --> happy camper ... ^_^

Sabine_Stroehm

I was able to lose 100 lbs, problem couldn't keep it off over the past 10 years, beer and pizza. During that time my sister in law ran the lab at the local hospital, I had complete blood work down every other week. My numbers were good nothing alarming and my cholesterol DROPPED 100 points. I have a friend who is a PHD BIoChemist I asked him about the diet when I first started, he said this diet will and does work, so do others the main thing is to be faithful to the diet your on.

Wish me luck

Well in a way, (please do not take this as a personal attack) you are the poster child for why the long term statistics are poor for LCD. Instead of learning to moderate your intake to healthy levels and enjoy what you like, in your case pizza and beer, you use the diet to lose weight. Then you go back to eating the way you prefer.

Why not learn how to work what you like into a sustainable plan to lose the excess weight and then maintain at a healthy weight eating the food you like in smaller doses?

The long term statistics for most dieting (yes, counting and weighing is dieting) are poor.
Aren't they?

Yes, that's true. But exceptionally poor for Low Carb. Above the norm. I'll see if I can find the stats and post them.

Edited to add: This is just my personal opinion that follows and if there is data that substantiates it, I don't know of it. But I believe retraining yourself for awareness and portion size maximizes the longer term likelihood of success. I don't believe that "diet plans" that involve radically altering behavioral patterns and introducing highly restrictive limitations have good long term success. All diets are a change from the norm for the individual and restrictive in some sense. Minimizing the amount of change maximizes the probability of long term success. Again this is just my opinion and philosophical approach.

So, the above post I commented on could be the poster child for any number of "diet" plans that involve radical change and restriction. LCD is only one but it is a very common one and there has been no indicator of a metabolic advantage in the research to date. There is also a dearth of well designed, long term, well controlled studies on this subject. But in what exists, there is no indication of an advantage of the long term.

WIth your edit, I don't disagree. I don't have a diet of "highly restrictive limitations". I did (for the most part) eliminate a few items (ingredients) about 12 years ago. Those ingredients include HFCS, enriched, bleached white flour, and beer. For ME (ymmv) that was not highly restrictive. For ME it made it easier to eat at a deficit (because my blood sugars were more stable perhaps. All I know is I didn't have rampant cravings for starchy carbs and what not). I didn't follow a diet "plan". I just made a few changes and looked at what I ate. I didn't count. I've never weighed or measured my serving. I guess I just believe there's more than one way up this mountain. Hell, there's even more than one Low carb diet. I honestly believe, given my lifestyle 12 years ago, if someone had said: weigh and measure everything and count your calories, and watch you macros, I wouldn't have lost the weight and kept it off. Someone did suggest limiting or eliminating HFCS, enriched, bleached white flour and beer (and rice, and potatoes, which I just switched to brown rice and yams). I did that and watched what went into my mouth. Instead of focusing on counting, I focused on fueling my body. On consciously eating more vegetables, lean meats, dairy, and true whole grains. On eating filling snacks like nuts and cheese. Dunno. It worked for me.
And, interestingly, a while later, after I had lost my weight, the south beach diet was published. I'd say even now my eating looks a lot like south beach phase 2/3. Folks probably consider the south beach diet restrictive (even without the optional phase 1). Dunno.
Eating SLOW carb (not low carb) worked for me. The principles of slow carb and low carb don't seem all that different. (or different from how many folks with PCOS successfully lose weight either).
But again, no, I don't disagree that most restrictive complicated diets fail.

Mr_Knight

A diet that said "no cauliflower!" would not be restrictive for me, because I hate it.

A diet that says "no bread or beer!" would be extremely restrictive for me, because I love those things.

There is lots of room for YMMV inside the tent named "Caloric Deficit".

lithezebra

there's a lot of sciency mumbo jumbo that a science person might answer but my simple understanding after having done it with roaring success, is that you can only eat so much everything else and so naturally one will be consuming fewer calories because carbs tend to be high cal foods and then you will likely fall into a cal deficit and lose weight.

Fat has about twice the calories per gram that protein and carbs have. However, a lot of people feel more satisfied after having fat and protein, and eat less overall because of it. At least that's how I explain why I'm happy to eat less if I'm eating more fat and protein.

Sabine_Stroehm

A diet that said "no cauliflower!" would not be restrictive for me, because I hate it.

A diet that says "no bread or beer!" would be extremely restrictive for me, because I love those things.

There is lots of room for YMMV inside the tent named "Caloric Deficit".

Absolutely. I don't disagree there! It seems lots of folks need their way to be THE way, however. That's my only complaint.

ps: I adore cauliflower. I had no idea that I did until I shifted my focus to eating a whole plant based diet.
pps: I find weighing and measuring everything too restrictive. :-)

Mr_Knight

pps: I find weighing and measuring everything too restrictive. :-)

Well, truth be told, it *is* restrictive!

I do it because it's a great tool for me, but I'm not going to kid myself about how obsessive it is... :drinker:

Sabine_Stroehm

pps: I find weighing and measuring everything too restrictive. :-)

Well, truth be told, it *is* restrictive!

I do it because it's a great tool for me, but I'm not going to kid myself about how obsessive it is... :drinker:

I get it. Like I said, more than one way up the mountain! And really, each of us needs something different. I wasn't a huge over eater in the quantity sense. I'm not one of those: OMG do you know how small a portion of X is???" people. I was more of an "I don't know how to eat" person.

supermuslimgirl

Nothing magical. I have reactive hypo, so I can explain it from my standpoint.

High simple sugar, low fat, low protein meal --> huge surge of glucose into the system --> glucose rises quickly --> pancreas overcompensates and dumps huge amount of insulin into the system --> liver (I believe) responds late to the huge surge of insulin, causes low blood sugar --> body panics because of low blood sugar and releases it's hormone to eat more ... --> I feel like crap. This high/low causes me to chase the rabbit and eat more. Excess calorie consumption leads to weight gain.

Higher protein, moderate fat, moderate low-gi, high fiber meal --> delayed emptying of glucose into the system --> glucoses rises moderately --> pancreas responds appropriately --> liver responds appropriately --> body doesn't panic --> happy camper ... ^_^

Bravo! Well put better than I put it anyways!

Sabine_Stroehm

Nothing magical. I have reactive hypo, so I can explain it from my standpoint.

High simple sugar, low fat, low protein meal --> huge surge of glucose into the system --> glucose rises quickly --> pancreas overcompensates and dumps huge amount of insulin into the system --> liver (I believe) responds late to the huge surge of insulin, causes low blood sugar --> body panics because of low blood sugar and releases it's hormone to eat more ... --> I feel like crap. This high/low causes me to chase the rabbit and eat more. Excess calorie consumption leads to weight gain.

Higher protein, moderate fat, moderate low-gi, high fiber meal --> delayed emptying of glucose into the system --> glucoses rises moderately --> pancreas responds appropriately --> liver responds appropriately --> body doesn't panic --> happy camper ... ^_^

Bravo! Well put better than I put it anyways!

+1
And that's been my experience with eating as well.

MerlinWilliams

For the same calories, you should have the same weight effects.

For me, though, when I eat carbs, I tend to crave more carbs, and then I crave even more carbs after that, and I end up eating a lot more. So for me, the point is not that it's low carb, but that it's high protein and fat. With protein and fat, I stay full, I don't get cravings, and I stay on my caloric target better.

This!

I eat high fat/moderate protein/low carb.

The fat and protein satisfy me, so I can trust by bodies hunger response.

ThriceBlessed

This documentary goes into all kinds of scientific information about the diet. Including whether its the fat or the protein that keeps you full longer.

http://youtu.be/B9w7CV8RjgY