Holy sexism, batman!
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I do not mind cat calling lol there are a lot worse things in the world than being whistled at or told how hot you are by a stranger . I just smile say thank you and keep walking.0
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Yes strange since gay men are not wont to do that in my area, but that may be different in other places in the world.
Cat calling isn't threatening. How do you get "I'm going to rape you and hurt you" from " hey pretty baby!" or a whistle? How do you make that leap in logic?
You don't want them to say something like "what a fine butt!" because I guess it makes you feel objectified (more asinine feminist theory).
Yes, they're not your "dogs," such an emotional profound statement so uncommon of feminist rhetoric! Ha! Equating catcalling to being disrespected like a dog the catcaller owns - so ingenious! Do i feel like a dog when a woman catcalls me on my muscular arms? No, but maybe if she placed her coat over a mud puddle so i could walk across unscathed would be a better gesture.
Where did I say that being cat called makes me think that I'm going to be hurt and raped? Again-if you don't want to run the risk of being seen as a threat, don't yell at strangers. This is good advice, consider taking it.
You're right, I really don't want them to talk about my butt. And?
You see, I believe men and women alike deserve to be able to walk around without strangers yelling their evaluations of their bodies. If feminism is responsible for that, great.
Where are all those cases of men being imprisoned for catcalls, by the way? I'd like to see the conviction and sentencing statistics.0 -
PS: I'm glad you find my posts to be free of emotional rhetoric. I can't say the same for you, but I don't judge you for that. It's good to care about the world around us. :flowerforyou:0
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Many women (myself included) have had men catcall us and then have it escalated into something more threatening. When a man hollers at us we have no idea if he's going to be one of the guys who just wants to holler and keeps moving on, or one of the guy who is going to get violent if we don't give him the attention he thinks he deserves. That's why some women perceive catcalling as threatening.Yes strange since gay men are not wont to do that in my area, but that may be different in other places in the world.
Cat calling isn't threatening. How do you get "I'm going to rape you and hurt you" from " hey pretty baby!" or a whistle? How do you make that leap in logic? You';re erroneously presuming these guy's motivations - you know nothing about men.
You don't want them to say something like "what a fine butt!" because I guess it makes you feel objectified (more asinine feminist theory).
Yes, they're not your "dogs," such an emotional profound statement so uncommon of feminist rhetoric! Ha! Equating catcalling to being disrespected like a dog the catcaller owns - so ingenious! Do i feel like a dog when a woman catcalls me on my muscular arms? No, but maybe if she placed her coat over a mud puddle so i could walk across unscathed would be a better gesture.
Like I said before the thread rolled over, the first time a man said something benign to me (you're pretty) and I didn't respond the way he felt I should and it escalated into a situation that made it necessary to call the police I was FOURTEEN.0 -
One organization, known as “Hollaback,” was formed five years ago to stand up to such harassment and “is now pushing the city to commission a study, a public awareness campaign, and perhaps even legislation creating ‘no-harassment zones’ around schools to protect young women."
http://aglr.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/does-the-cat-have-new-york-city’s-tongue-what-can-new-york-city-do-to-address-concerns-over-“catcalls”/Whistles, catcalls and lewd come-ons from strangers are all too familiar to New York City women, who say they are harassed multiple times a day as they walk down the street. Now lawmakers are examining whether to do something to discourage it.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2010/10/29/nyc-women-fight-back-against-cat-calls-whistles/0 -
Many women (myself included) have had men catcall us and then have it escalated into something more threatening. When a man hollers at us we have no idea if he's going to be one of the guys who just wants to holler and keeps moving on, or one of the guy who is going to get violent if we don't give him the attention he thinks he deserves. That's why some women perceive catcalling as threatening.Yes strange since gay men are not wont to do that in my area, but that may be different in other places in the world.
Cat calling isn't threatening. How do you get "I'm going to rape you and hurt you" from " hey pretty baby!" or a whistle? How do you make that leap in logic? You';re erroneously presuming these guy's motivations - you know nothing about men.
You don't want them to say something like "what a fine butt!" because I guess it makes you feel objectified (more asinine feminist theory).
Yes, they're not your "dogs," such an emotional profound statement so uncommon of feminist rhetoric! Ha! Equating catcalling to being disrespected like a dog the catcaller owns - so ingenious! Do i feel like a dog when a woman catcalls me on my muscular arms? No, but maybe if she placed her coat over a mud puddle so i could walk across unscathed would be a better gesture.
Like I said before the thread rolled over, the first time a man said something benign to me (you're pretty) and I didn't respond the way he felt I should and it escalated into a situation that made it necessary to call the police I was FOURTEEN.
You're equating catcalling to subsequent criminal behavior. Your anecdotes are not exactly a credible source considering your bias.0 -
Like I said before the thread rolled over, the first time a man said something benign to me (you're pretty) and I didn't respond the way he felt I should and it escalated into a situation that made it necessary to call the police I was FOURTEEN.
14...scary times. Seems many of us share similar stories.0 -
One organization, known as “Hollaback,” was formed five years ago to stand up to such harassment and “is now pushing the city to commission a study, a public awareness campaign, and perhaps even legislation creating ‘no-harassment zones’ around schools to protect young women."
http://aglr.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/does-the-cat-have-new-york-city’s-tongue-what-can-new-york-city-do-to-address-concerns-over-“catcalls”/Whistles, catcalls and lewd come-ons from strangers are all too familiar to New York City women, who say they are harassed multiple times a day as they walk down the street. Now lawmakers are examining whether to do something to discourage it.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2010/1
0/29/nyc-women-fight-back-against-cat-calls-whistles/
Two articles from 2010 about an advocacy group asking for something proves what? I asked for sentencing and conviction rates of men being charged with criminal acts for a whistle.
I can petition the government to ban your right to speak. It doesn't mean it will go through. Free speech gives me the right to ask, not the right to have it go through.
There are advocacy groups promoting sexual activity with children. Special interests groups asking for legislation means just about nothing.0 -
Yes strange since gay men are not wont to do that in my area, but that may be different in other places in the world.
Cat calling isn't threatening. How do you get "I'm going to rape you and hurt you" from " hey pretty baby!" or a whistle? How do you make that leap in logic?
You don't want them to say something like "what a fine butt!" because I guess it makes you feel objectified (more asinine feminist theory).
Yes, they're not your "dogs," such an emotional profound statement so uncommon of feminist rhetoric! Ha! Equating catcalling to being disrespected like a dog the catcaller owns - so ingenious! Do i feel like a dog when a woman catcalls me on my muscular arms? No, but maybe if she placed her coat over a mud puddle so i could walk across unscathed would be a better gesture.
Where did I say that being cat called makes me think that I'm going to be hurt and raped? Again-if you don't want to run the risk of being seen as a threat, don't yell at strangers. This is good advice, consider taking it.
You're right, I really don't want them to talk about my butt. And?
You see, I believe men and women alike deserve to be able to walk around without strangers yelling their evaluations of their bodies. If feminism is responsible for that, great.
Where are all those cases of men being imprisoned for catcalls, by the way? I'd like to see the conviction and sentencing statistics.
What does threatening mean to you?
You don't want them to compliment your perfect butt in yoga pants, especially by the unattractive males. If you don't like it, there should be a law.
I don't want to have harmless speech made illegal for complete asinine reasons. I deserve to walk around without being offended by things not inherently offensive? Gothcha. Feminism is pro-censorship and pro nanny state, and it is where your perspective comes from. Representing men too when you perfectly well know that it will be men who would be sanctioned the most for cat calling - how sincere!0 -
What does threatening mean to you?
You don't want them to compliment your perfect butt in yoga pants, especially by the unattractive males. If you don't like it, there should be a law.
I don't want to have harmless speech made illegal for complete asinine reasons. I deserve to walk around without being offended by things not inherently offensive? Gothcha. Feminism is pro-censorship and pro nanny state, and it is where your perspective comes from. Representing men too when you perfectly well know that it will be men who would be sanctioned the most for cat calling - how sincere!
There are many things I don't like that I don't believe should be legislated. I don't like your opinion or you. I support your right to speak and exist. I do believe people deserve to be able to walk about in peace. I don't believe the government needs to get involved unless it rises to the level of harassment (deliberately pursuing another, threatening statements; this standard doesn't just apply to catcalls and doesn't just protect women.)
Again, I haven't asked for men to be sanctioned. It's hilarious that you support a man's right to tell me about my butt but not mine to tell you that I think it's disrespectful without leaping to the conclusion that I want men legally sanctioned.
PS: Don't assume I don't know men who haven't felt uncomfortable from sexual commentary from strangers. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.0 -
Two articles from 2010 about an advocacy group asking for something proves what? I asked for sentencing and conviction rates of men being charged with criminal acts for a whistle.
I can petition the government to ban your right to speak. It doesn't mean it will go through. Free speech gives me the right to ask, not the right to have it go through.
There are advocacy groups promoting sexual activity with children. Special interests groups asking for legislation means just about nothing.
These advocacy groups seem to hold the same arguments as you. So you equate these advocacy groups (as some fringe group) with pro-pedophilia groups?
I would say these groups (based in feminist ideology) hold a little more sway than a pro-pedophilia group, and are cause for concern. LOL0 -
What does threatening mean to you?
You don't want them to compliment your perfect butt in yoga pants, especially by the unattractive males. If you don't like it, there should be a law.
I don't want to have harmless speech made illegal for complete asinine reasons. I deserve to walk around without being offended by things not inherently offensive? Gothcha. Feminism is pro-censorship and pro nanny state, and it is where your perspective comes from. Representing men too when you perfectly well know that it will be men who would be sanctioned the most for cat calling - how sincere!
There are many things I don't like that I don't believe should be legislated. I don't like your opinion or you. I support your right to speak and exist. I do believe people deserve to be able to walk about in peace. I don't believe the government needs to get involved unless it rises to the level of harassment (deliberately pursuing another, threatening statements; this standard doesn't just apply to catcalls and doesn't just protect women.)
Again, I haven't asked for men to be sanctioned. It's hilarious that you support a man's right to tell me about my butt but not mine to tell you that I think it's disrespectful without leaping to the conclusion that I want men legally sanctioned.
PS: Don't assume I don't know men who haven't felt uncomfortable from sexual commentary from strangers. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
If you don't like a man complimenting your butt, that is your right to not like it, but it is not justification for promoting a system where a man can arrested for making that statement. It is not an expression of oppression and privilege either, whatever horsepoop you feminists make up. lol
I'm sure some statements wouldn't make me feel very nice, but I don't feel like the person should be banished for it.0 -
These advocacy groups seem to hold the same arguments as you. So you equate these advocacy groups (as some fringe group) with pro-pedophilia groups?
I would say these groups (based in feminist ideology) hold a little more sway than a pro-pedophilia group, and are cause for concern. LOL
The advocacy groups may believe that people are negatively impacted by catcalls. What we want done about it is different. I'm not in support of legislation making it criminal to catcall. I support people voicing how it affects them to spread awareness. Not everything can be legislated. A group can make a request and another group can object based on free speech. Again, there are plenty of views I'm not wild about, and I'm not petitioning anyone to make them illegal.
I don't know anything about the group in question, so I can't tell you whether or not I consider their beliefs and methods similar to pro-pedophilia groups.
You also know very little about my beliefs. Contrary to popular opinion, not all who believe in feminism agree 100% on what it looks like in theory and practice. That's pretty typical for most belief systems.
I'm guessing you don't have any cases of men being imprisoned for a whistle, then?
The articles were from 2010. What ended up happening?0 -
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If you don't like a man complimenting your butt, that is your right to not like it, but it is not justification for promoting a system where a man can arrested for making that statement. It is not an expression of oppression and privilege either, whatever horsepoop you feminists make up. lol
I'm sure some statements wouldn't make me feel very nice, but I don't feel like the person should be banished for it.
Where have I promoted that system?
I won't swear that no one has in this thread, just because I'm not willing to go back and re-read it to say for sure, but I also don't recall anyone advocating for the arrest of a man who whistles.0 -
PS: I do think that people who feel entitled to talk to strangers about their butts are walking around in a state of privilege and entitlement, but again, not much to be done about that.
Poor catcallers. Someone thinks they have privileges. That's really offensive, someone please just talk about their butts now.0 -
These advocacy groups seem to hold the same arguments as you. So you equate these advocacy groups (as some fringe group) with pro-pedophilia groups?
I would say these groups (based in feminist ideology) hold a little more sway than a pro-pedophilia group, and are cause for concern. LOL
The advocacy groups may believe that people are negatively impacted by catcalls. What we want done about it is different. I'm not in support of legislation making it criminal to catcall. I support people voicing how it affects them to spread awareness. Not everything can be legislated. A group can make a request and another group can object based on free speech. Again, there are plenty of views I'm not wild about, and I'm not petitioning anyone to make them illegal.
I don't know anything about the group in question, so I can't tell you whether or not I consider their beliefs and methods similar to pro-pedophilia groups.
You also know very little about my beliefs. Contrary to popular opinion, not all who believe in feminism agree 100% on what it looks like in theory and practice. That's pretty typical for most belief systems.
I'm guessing you don't have any cases of men being imprisoned for a whistle, then?
The articles were from 2010. What ended up happening?
I think, some street harassment legislation (encompassing catcalls) has been passed in some cities in the US, but can't say I am entirely sure on that.
It is important to advocate against these groups (and people) pushing for legislation of this nature (or paves the way for this legislation with attitudes and beliefs), just as any sane person would advocate against pedophilia groups.
Not sure if men have been imprisoned for catcalling, and hopefully not one does.
That's good, we are on the same page, no legislation for catcalling. Yet I assume if these innocuous behaviors were made illegal (construed as harassment), you wouldn't have a problem.0 -
PS: I do think that people who feel entitled to talk to strangers about their butts are walking around in a state of privilege and entitlement, but again, not much to be done about that.
Poor catcallers. Someone thinks they have privileges. That's really offensive, someone please just talk about their butts now.
Most people I see catcall are black males, we know how they ooze privilege and entitlement (free speech to say things others may not like).0 -
Yet I assume if these innocuous behaviors were made illegal (construed as harassment), you wouldn't have a problem.
You know what they say about assuming.
I would have an issue, not because I respect the behavior but because of the importance of the balance of government and freedom.0 -
PS: I do think that people who feel entitled to talk to strangers about their butts are walking around in a state of privilege and entitlement, but again, not much to be done about that.
Poor catcallers. Someone thinks they have privileges. That's really offensive, someone please just talk about their butts now.
Most people I see catcall are black males, we know how they ooze privilege and entitlement (free speech to say things others may not like).
It's safe to say that a person catcalling another feels enough privilege to comment on a stranger's body. Race has nothing to do with it. Your limited personal experience is just one piece of the puzzle. I've actually experienced much more demeaning sexual commentary from white men than from black men, which is just as statistically meaningless as your belief that it's mostly black males. I have had both white men and black men approach me appropriately and respectfully.
I've also had a woman make eye contact and give me a flirtatious smile, which I found complimentary and non-offensive. I had another woman say something crude to me. The first woman was interested in making contact. The second woman felt entitled and safe enough to take it to the next level. It's not just white men who can have privilege. Context matters. There's someone at the bottom of every pile.0 -
Yes, like when someone creates a blog or article on a news site to criticize Obamacare, they feel entitled and have a privilege to express their first amendment rights that millions of people won't like.
Catcalling is universal and also done by traditionally underprivileged people (and as you say woman too), I would say there is something more to that than privilege and entitlement (the feminist patriarchal perspective).0 -
Yes, like when someone creates a blog or article on a news site to criticize Obamacare, they feel entitled and have a privilege to express their first amendment rights that millions of people won't like.
Catcalling is universal and also done by traditionally underprivileged people (and as you say woman too), I would say there is something more to that than privilege and entitlement (the feminist patriarchal perspective).
We agree to disagree here. Anyone can experience privilege, context matters. In most situations, I have more privilege than a child, regardless of race or gender.
Yes, when someone expresses an opinion, that person presumably feels entitled to do so. I feel entitled to express my opinion right now as you feel entitled to as well. I feel entitled to have a negative opinion of the stranger who feels entitled to comment on my butt.
Entitlement is a human trait. How it is expressed and by whom is influenced by culture and society. There are very few absolutes in culture and society. There are exceptions to every rule. The person commenting on your appearance may not be experiencing privilege-it's possible the person has a lack of control over his actions for one reason or another. It's possible the person is trying to provoke a situation. I don't think it's usually that complex; I do think it usually comes down to entitlement. Am I positive you can find exceptions to that? Yes.0 -
TL;DR
Cliffs0 -
I think sometimes it boils down to some women being very sensitive about their bodies and can be very uncomfortable when they are noticed in anyway, never had any issue with someone trying anything after they cat called me but I also come across as someone who can look after myself, so when they have whistled that was all they did.0
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