Holy sexism, batman!

Heather4nne

Let's be honest; you don't have to be at your goal weight to get attention. You don't need to have a Baywatch bod to turn heads. You don't even need to be looking for attention to get it.

Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine. I head to the liquor store 10 mins away at 9:00 pm, alone, but made sure my mum and boyfriend knew what was up just in case. Everything's great until I get home, and on the walkway to the building is some guy. No big deal. Across the way on the grass is another guy. Now it's kindof a deal. But still, head down, keep marching, and don't look like you're asking for trouble, right? Wrong. Catcalling. Not flattering. I never pull the door closed on anyone, but tonight I made an exception, both for the outer and inner (key access only) doors. Once I'm in, two inebriated guys come out of the elevator. No catcalls, just uncomfortable looks. You know the kind when you're coveting a fancy dress or plate of food? Not the look anyone is supposed to give a stranger. I walk in a wide arc around, then get in the elevator and lay on the "close doors" button, just in case. My heart doesn't stop pounding until I'm behind the locked door of my apartment, and even then, I keep an ear out just in case anyone saw my floor from the lobby.

Say what you want. Say sexism is a myth, and feminism is redundant because women have no reason to feel marginalized. If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.

Not looking for pity or attention, just a little positive support.

wheird

I don't think it is sexism so much as just plain, unwanted harassment. Though it is indeed heavily skewed towards women.

I'm sorry that you were put in an uncomfortable and fearful situation.

MysteriousMerlin

I...never have this problem. :laugh: No one cares about me or to look at me until they get to know me, then it's only because of my sparkling personality. :blushing:

Instead of hunched shoulders and keeping your eyes averted, I would walk straight ahead, shoulders back, and give them a sharp look. Your body language can sometimes encourage various reactions, depending on how you pull it off.

usmcmp

That wasn't sexism, just a few guys being pigs.

Next time walk with your head up and confident. If you feel threatened look them in the face. Guys won't attack or try to touch you if there's a chance you could describe them to the police. Keeping your head down is more likely to lead to an attack because you look unsure, weak and timid.

MysteriousMerlin

I...never have this problem. :laugh: No one cares about me or to look at me until they get to know me, then it's only because of my sparkling personality. :blushing:

Instead of hunched shoulders and keeping your eyes averted, I would walk straight ahead, shoulders back, and give them a sharp look. Your body language can sometimes encourage various reactions, depending on how you pull it off.

Ah, I don't mean that the way it sounds. If you carry yourself with a 'don't mess with me' attitude, you'll likely feel less intimidated.

DamePiglet

I don't think it is sexism so much as just plain, unwanted harassment. Though it is indeed heavily skewed towards women.

I'm sorry that you were put in an uncomfortable and fearful situation.

^^ this.

vjohn04

I don't think it is sexism so much as just plain, unwanted harassment. Though it is indeed heavily skewed towards women.

I'm sorry that you were put in an uncomfortable and fearful situation.

^this.
Definition: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

meshashesha2012

yeah i wouldnt call that sexism. it's not someone looking at you inhibits your ability to go about your business. what's inhibiting you is your discomfort around those looks and that attention, but it's YOUR discomfort.

as someone who developped boob and booty early and had to deal with similar situations since i was a teen, i can understand feeling uncomfortable around certain situations, especially if you've ever been groped, touched or had people try to drag you into a dark alley (all of which have happened to me).

i personally REFUSE to live in a damn bubble against potential threats and took it upon myself to take self-defense classes. i'm also not above shaming the guys who make rude comments especially since i'm fairly free with my potty mouth. i'm really glad i decided to take the classes because i was really close to having those experiences color my world view toward the negative (although one of the results was me gaining 90+ pounds so i could feel "safe"). at least after the classes i feel more in control of my personal safety

maybe look into a self-defense class? there are places that offer free initial classes.

good luck!

salladeve

If you live in a unsafe neighborhood why didn't someone go with you? That aside, I agree with carrying yourself with confidence, however that really will not work if there is more then one and they are intent on causing you harm. The catcalling and rude comments I never really understood. I've never met a women that was the target of a catcall and responded with "come and get it big guy", lol. It just makes the guy look stupid imo.

Derf_Smeggle

Okay. I get that the catcalling was a bit much, and it freaked you out. It was perhaps over the top and it obviously made you uncomfortable. I'm with you on that not being cool.

Attention bordering on sexist/sexism. Okay, I'm still with you.

But the guys looking at you as they came off the elevator, with no knowledge of what just happened. That's it. They looked at you. They didn't approach you. They didn't communicate with you. They looked at you.

That ain't sexism. You are an attractive woman; they appreciated a pretty woman.

*edited for phone autocorrect help...* :ohwell:

Myhaloslipped

This happens to me constantly in Detroit, which is one of the many reasons I can't wait to move. Just ignore it.

tjthegreatone

The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

Mr_Bad_Example

Sounds like those guys were a bunch of horny, uncouth *kitten* without an once of intelligence, dignity, or respect.

moya_rargh

This is why I don't look at women.

The guys catcalling were just idiots. Tell them to f*** off next time.

wheird

The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

Well, because this thread is not about ways to change how some men treat some women in society. She asked for sympathy and got it. Some also suggested ways to protect herself in the future, since no conversation will be enough to change society in a weekend.

Derf_Smeggle

The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

I appreciate what you are saying, and I won't argue that people need to behave better toward one another. A little devil's advocate though. How exactly do we determine to an exacting detail what makes someone afraid? What is the threshold or measure that we use considering individuals have a high degree of variability?

It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

Even were we all perfect angels this action might still be considered reasonable. How much more likely is it a person would be in some sort of accident making a simple trip to the grocery store?

How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

A couple of people have mentioned there was probably some inappropriate behavior on the part of the men. The catcallers were probably out of line. We cannot really assess the actions of these men or the men in the elevator, outside of what is being reported. There are more sides of the story here. More dimensions. This does not invalidate the OP's feelings, and it is not cool that she feels this way

There are however other perspectives here. Did these men realize their mistake? We cannot know. What other things do we not know here.

For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

Okay. Absolutely.

DamePiglet

The fact that a woman can't go about her business in the evening without feeling threatened is a sign that sexism is alive and well. Why would she feel threatened by guys 'just looking' or 'admiring' if there weren't too many men with a habit of harassing and assaulting women? Look up the figures for the proportion of women who have been assaulted anywhere in the world. Of course if we were being entirely logical, the fear should be directed more towards acquaintances, but that's not the way fear and intimidation work.

How come everyone is suggesting self-defence classes/body-language cues for the woman or trying to downplay the guys' demeanour without addressing how to make men socialise with women appropriately without making them fearful for their safety?

It infuriates me that this woman had to tell her mother and boyfriend where she was going just to leave her house. You may claim that she is being oversensitive or fearful but we all know that her reactions are entirely reasonable.

How come no one seems to be saying of the men above: if you'admire' a woman, don't choose one trying to get into her house in the evening in a quiet stairwell, don't cat call, and don't stand there gawking/drooling openly as how is she supposed to work out what your next move may be?

For what it is worth, I am rarely the subject of this kind of behaviour and the few times it has happened I have rarely felt worried about my safety because I am more than capable of looking after myself and handling idiots. Nevertheless, it is still nauseating, degrading and disturbing. There is no sense of self-esteem to be gained from being viewed/treated like a piece of meat.

How come you're generalizing so much? Not everyone suggested that she change her behavior, demeanor, etc.

Would you have been so terribly upset that she felt the need to tell her family where she was going if she had been nearly run over by a woman driving a car? OP had been drinking. It's a good idea to let people know where you're going anytime you've been drinking.

And yeah, I also agree with RIH... No one is curing the ills of society in one thread.

kgeyser

Feeling threatened is subjective. Was it not sexist of her to assume the worst about two guys who were standing outside of a building, simply because they were male? She admitted that she changed her demeanor before they ever engaged her in any way. Now, do I necessarily blame her for doing that or think it is ok that they made rude comments? Absolutely not. But she made a choice and changed her actions based on gender, which is sexist. She probably wouldn't have done that if it were two women.

The guys coming out of the elevator were drunk, and didn't do anything but walk by and look at her. They didn't engage her in any way. Did they look at her inappropriately, or did she just feel that way because of the previous encounter? If she could see they were drunk, who knows what they were thinking. They could have been trying to figure out if they knew her. Not sexism.

I'd also like to point out that she herself had been drinking, which could have affected her perception of the situations. Would the guys still have yelled something? Probably; some people are just jerks. I'm sorry that happened to the OP, I've been there myself. I've even crossed the street to avoid walking past a group of guys and had them yell at me for doing so, but hey, I made a choice based on my comfort level and my own sexist biases.

ItsCasey

1. Don't walk to a liquor store by yourself, especially at night and especially when you're already 3 rounds deep.

2. If it's Saturday night and you've been drinking, assume that random guys on the street have probably been drinking as well and that their behavior will reflect that.

We can talk all day about whether or not it's fair that a woman can't walk 10 minutes away from home without worrying about being harassed or even attacked. I'd rather acknowledge the fact that the world is what it is and conduct myself accordingly.

DMZ_1

I can understand the cat calls being annoying. The guys that catcalled didn't have the best execution. Catcalling doesn't work. Also, OP was not specific as to what the catcalls actually were. That's key information.

Also, two guys walked past her. Many times two guys have walked past me and I've felt weird. This is not a big deal.

I would not mind a night that involved some ladies in the immediate vicinity of my place leering at me, so long as they are good looking ladies.

sjohnny

That wasn't sexism, just a few guys being pigs.

Next time walk with your head up and confident. If you feel threatened look them in the face. Guys won't attack or try to touch you if there's a chance you could describe them to the police. Keeping your head down is more likely to lead to an attack because you look unsure, weak and timid.

Exactly! People who walk around staring at the ground look like victims. The less you look like a victim the less likely you are to be one. People who are confident and situationally aware are more likely to be left alone.