Holy sexism, batman!
Replies
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They get harassed in different ways. Instead of being sexual, it's more about intimidation. I don't think anyone has real numbers on how often either group is harassed, so you can't really say it happens to on more than the other. But yeah, I understand women being more wary of it, but some women take it too far. Having a drunk guy look at you is harassment now? Please...
I think the drunk guys looking at her occurred after the cat calling and therefore she already was in "fight or flight" mode. I presume, although I don't know, she wouldn't have really made an issue about it if that's all there was.
I don't know about where you are but IIRC the crime stats clearly show a much, much greater incidence of sexual assault against women by men then vice versa. It's true men might not be reporting the same but I doubt it. As such women are bound to be more sensitive to this type of issue and I feel they have every right to be.
Harassment on the other hand I think you're right. No reliable stats on that to my knowledge.
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.0 -
I think it's about self-ownership. The cat-calling, escalating behavior, demanding attention, and intentional intimidation are all part and parcel of the rape culture, which reflect the cultural expectation that a woman's body is not her own, it exists for the gratification of men. It aggresses against womens' right to self-ownership. And it *is* a form of sexism, just because it doesn't have anything to do with hiring practices or school admissions.
Yes, women should empower themselves either by taking unarmed self-defense training or, if possible, becoming trained and licensed to carry weapons (both less-lethal and lethal), but we don't just stop there and call it a day.
It's a lot like what I see happening on college campuses. A lot of rape-prevention stuff focusing on how to lower your risk of being a victim (good), but where's the training for everyone about what explicit, affirmative consent is and *is not* (IOW, teaching them not to rape)?! The best would be to have all of it.
I realize all this is very "raging feminist" *and* libertarian, which is two strikes against me from most people. But that doesn't stop it from being true.0 -
I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.0
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I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
What in the actual #$*%?!0 -
I think it's about self-ownership. The cat-calling, escalating behavior, demanding attention, and intentional intimidation are all part and parcel of the rape culture, which reflect the cultural expectation that a woman's body is not her own, it exists for the gratification of men. It aggresses against womens' right to self-ownership. And it *is* a form of sexism, just because it doesn't have anything to do with hiring practices or school admissions.
Yes, women should empower themselves either by taking unarmed self-defense training or, if possible, becoming trained and licensed to carry weapons (both less-lethal and lethal), but we don't just stop there and call it a day.
It's a lot like what I see happening on college campuses. A lot of rape-prevention stuff focusing on how to lower your risk of being a victim (good), but where's the training for everyone about what explicit, affirmative consent is and *is not* (IOW, teaching them not to rape)?! The best would be to have all of it.
I realize all this is very "raging feminist" *and* libertarian, which is two strikes against me from most people. But that doesn't stop it from being true.
I don't think anyone needs to be taught not to rape lol do you think someone would be raping people for years, then hear someone say "no dude rape is bad you shouldn't do that" and they'd be like "really? guess I'll stop". And this whole thought that there is a culture that promotes rape completely blows my mind. Rapists are criminals. That's it.0 -
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.0 -
I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.0 -
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.0 -
So, it couldn't possibly be the case that some dudes are ignorant about what constitutes explicit, affirmative consent and would not benefit from being educated that consent is never implied, or that consent cannot be given by someone who is impaired by alcohol or drugs? OK. Carry on then.I don't think anyone needs to be taught not to rape lol do you think someone would be raping people for years, then hear someone say "no dude rape is bad you shouldn't do that" and they'd be like "really? guess I'll stop". And this whole thought that there is a culture that promotes rape completely blows my mind. Rapists are criminals. That's it.0 -
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
Eh?
Under English Law a man can be raped by a woman but cannot be called a rapist - the wording of the statute does not allow for it.
A man can rape another man and be called a rapist.
That is the point being made.0 -
Let's be honest; you don't have to be at your goal weight to get attention. You don't need to have a Baywatch bod to turn heads. You don't even need to be looking for attention to get it.
Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine. I head to the liquor store 10 mins away at 9:00 pm, alone, but made sure my mum and boyfriend knew what was up just in case. Everything's great until I get home, and on the walkway to the building is some guy. No big deal. Across the way on the grass is another guy. Now it's kindof a deal. But still, head down, keep marching, and don't look like you're asking for trouble, right? Wrong. Catcalling. Not flattering. I never pull the door closed on anyone, but tonight I made an exception, both for the outer and inner (key access only) doors. Once I'm in, two inebriated guys come out of the elevator. No catcalls, just uncomfortable looks. You know the kind when you're coveting a fancy dress or plate of food? Not the look anyone is supposed to give a stranger. I walk in a wide arc around, then get in the elevator and lay on the "close doors" button, just in case. My heart doesn't stop pounding until I'm behind the locked door of my apartment, and even then, I keep an ear out just in case anyone saw my floor from the lobby.
Say what you want. Say sexism is a myth, and feminism is redundant because women have no reason to feel marginalized. If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.
Not looking for pity or attention, just a little positive support.
Since when are catcalls sexism? Some random guy thinks you're hot and that's sexism?
Drunk guys eye you up and that's sexism?
Yes maybe it is unwanted attention, but thinking someone is attractive isn't a crime!0 -
They get harassed in different ways. Instead of being sexual, it's more about intimidation. I don't think anyone has real numbers on how often either group is harassed, so you can't really say it happens to on more than the other. But yeah, I understand women being more wary of it, but some women take it too far. Having a drunk guy look at you is harassment now? Please...
I think the drunk guys looking at her occurred after the cat calling and therefore she already was in "fight or flight" mode. I presume, although I don't know, she wouldn't have really made an issue about it if that's all there was.
I don't know about where you are but IIRC the crime stats clearly show a much, much greater incidence of sexual assault against women by men then vice versa. It's true men might not be reporting the same but I doubt it. As such women are bound to be more sensitive to this type of issue and I feel they have every right to be.
Harassment on the other hand I think you're right. No reliable stats on that to my knowledge.
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
Men can be raped by other men though surely?0 -
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
If a man is passed out drunk at a party and a woman comes into the room and has sex with him and he has no recollection of it under the law it is not considered rape.
If the genders are reversed it is considered rape.
If both parties are drunk, it is considered rape.
The double standards are sickening.
Edit: refer to this post
So, it couldn't possibly be the case that some dudes are ignorant about what constitutes explicit, affirmative consent and would not benefit from being educated that consent is never implied, or that consent cannot be given by someone who is impaired by alcohol or drugs? OK. Carry on then.I don't think anyone needs to be taught not to rape lol do you think someone would be raping people for years, then hear someone say "no dude rape is bad you shouldn't do that" and they'd be like "really? guess I'll stop". And this whole thought that there is a culture that promotes rape completely blows my mind. Rapists are criminals. That's it.
[/quote]0 -
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I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.
What the op is talking about is not sexism...0 -
Let's be honest; you don't have to be at your goal weight to get attention. You don't need to have a Baywatch bod to turn heads. You don't even need to be looking for attention to get it.
Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine. I head to the liquor store 10 mins away at 9:00 pm, alone, but made sure my mum and boyfriend knew what was up just in case. Everything's great until I get home, and on the walkway to the building is some guy. No big deal. Across the way on the grass is another guy. Now it's kindof a deal. But still, head down, keep marching, and don't look like you're asking for trouble, right? Wrong. Catcalling. Not flattering. I never pull the door closed on anyone, but tonight I made an exception, both for the outer and inner (key access only) doors. Once I'm in, two inebriated guys come out of the elevator. No catcalls, just uncomfortable looks. You know the kind when you're coveting a fancy dress or plate of food? Not the look anyone is supposed to give a stranger. I walk in a wide arc around, then get in the elevator and lay on the "close doors" button, just in case. My heart doesn't stop pounding until I'm behind the locked door of my apartment, and even then, I keep an ear out just in case anyone saw my floor from the lobby.
Say what you want. Say sexism is a myth, and feminism is redundant because women have no reason to feel marginalized. If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.
Not looking for pity or attention, just a little positive support.
Since when are catcalls sexism? Some random guy thinks you're hot and that's sexism?
Drunk guys eye you up and that's sexism?
Yes maybe it is unwanted attention, but thinking someone is attractive isn't a crime!
Sums it up nicely!0 -
Yes, that is my point that I was making. There is no way "under the law a man cannot be raped". Perhaps you have some crazy laws that prevent women from being convicted of "rape", but that is semantics. Where I live, there is no such crime "rape". There is "sexual assault" and men and women both can be victims and perpetrators. Rape is a culturally-loaded term anyway, so it's probably for the best that we do not have it codified in laws.
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
Eh?
Under English Law a man can be raped by a woman but cannot be called a rapist - the wording of the statute does not allow for it.
A man can rape another man and be called a rapist.
That is the point being made.0 -
[/quote]Jesus, I'm glad I don't live in the UK if that is what your laws say.
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
If a man is passed out drunk at a party and a woman comes into the room and has sex with him and he has no recollection of it under the law it is not considered rape.
If the genders are reversed it is considered rape.
If both parties are drunk, it is considered rape.
The double standards are sickening.
Edit: refer to this post
So, it couldn't possibly be the case that some dudes are ignorant about what constitutes explicit, affirmative consent and would not benefit from being educated that consent is never implied, or that consent cannot be given by someone who is impaired by alcohol or drugs? OK. Carry on then.I don't think anyone needs to be taught not to rape lol do you think someone would be raping people for years, then hear someone say "no dude rape is bad you shouldn't do that" and they'd be like "really? guess I'll stop". And this whole thought that there is a culture that promotes rape completely blows my mind. Rapists are criminals. That's it.0 -
But you don't get to define that for her.
I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.
What the op is talking about is not sexism...0 -
Yes, that is my point that I was making. There is no way "under the law a man cannot be raped". Perhaps you have some crazy laws that prevent women from being convicted of "rape", but that is semantics. Where I live, there is no such crime "rape". There is "sexual assault" and men and women both can be victims and perpetrators. Rape is a culturally-loaded term anyway, so it's probably for the best that we do not have it codified in laws.
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
Eh?
Under English Law a man can be raped by a woman but cannot be called a rapist - the wording of the statute does not allow for it.
A man can rape another man and be called a rapist.
That is the point being made.
I wasn't saying a man can't be raped, I was saying under the law it is impossible for a man to be "raped'. Only a woman can be "raped"0 -
I have never heard of the crime of "sexism", but I *have* heard of douchey behavior. Some random guy thinks you're hot is not. Some random guy expresses that opinion in a threatening way is.Let's be honest; you don't have to be at your goal weight to get attention. You don't need to have a Baywatch bod to turn heads. You don't even need to be looking for attention to get it.
Earlier tonight: I've had a few glasses of wine. I head to the liquor store 10 mins away at 9:00 pm, alone, but made sure my mum and boyfriend knew what was up just in case. Everything's great until I get home, and on the walkway to the building is some guy. No big deal. Across the way on the grass is another guy. Now it's kindof a deal. But still, head down, keep marching, and don't look like you're asking for trouble, right? Wrong. Catcalling. Not flattering. I never pull the door closed on anyone, but tonight I made an exception, both for the outer and inner (key access only) doors. Once I'm in, two inebriated guys come out of the elevator. No catcalls, just uncomfortable looks. You know the kind when you're coveting a fancy dress or plate of food? Not the look anyone is supposed to give a stranger. I walk in a wide arc around, then get in the elevator and lay on the "close doors" button, just in case. My heart doesn't stop pounding until I'm behind the locked door of my apartment, and even then, I keep an ear out just in case anyone saw my floor from the lobby.
Say what you want. Say sexism is a myth, and feminism is redundant because women have no reason to feel marginalized. If you can't feel safe walking around your own home, there's a problem.
Not looking for pity or attention, just a little positive support.
Since when are catcalls sexism? Some random guy thinks you're hot and that's sexism?
Drunk guys eye you up and that's sexism?
Yes maybe it is unwanted attention, but thinking someone is attractive isn't a crime!
Sums it up nicely!0 -
But you don't get to define that for her.
I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.
What the op is talking about is not sexism...
Does an individual get to define what every word means for themselves? From this point forward the word "tree" refers to the clear liquid that is necessary for life.0 -
I’m guessing the odds are high that the OP hasn’t checked back on this thread since she posted it.0
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Jesus, I'm glad I don't live in the UK if that is what your laws say.
Errr, it isn't. You're talking to two separate people here.
I know me and the other dude look alike and all but still...0 -
Then I'm super confused. So if a man sexually assaults another man, the victim of that assault, under the law, cannot be said to have been raped?
Yes, that is my point that I was making. There is no way "under the law a man cannot be raped". Perhaps you have some crazy laws that prevent women from being convicted of "rape", but that is semantics. Where I live, there is no such crime "rape". There is "sexual assault" and men and women both can be victims and perpetrators. Rape is a culturally-loaded term anyway, so it's probably for the best that we do not have it codified in laws.
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
Eh?
Under English Law a man can be raped by a woman but cannot be called a rapist - the wording of the statute does not allow for it.
A man can rape another man and be called a rapist.
That is the point being made.
I wasn't saying a man can't be raped, I was saying under the law it is impossible for a man to be "raped'. Only a woman can be "raped"0 -
I feel like we are getting very off topic.
On topic, what those men did was not sexism.
/thread0 -
But you don't get to define that for her.
I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.
What the op is talking about is not sexism...
Sexism has a definition and what the op is talking about ain't it...0 -
Then I'm super confused. So if a man sexually assaults another man, the victim of that assault, under the law, cannot be said to have been raped?
Yes, that is my point that I was making. There is no way "under the law a man cannot be raped". Perhaps you have some crazy laws that prevent women from being convicted of "rape", but that is semantics. Where I live, there is no such crime "rape". There is "sexual assault" and men and women both can be victims and perpetrators. Rape is a culturally-loaded term anyway, so it's probably for the best that we do not have it codified in laws.
Are you just going to ignore all of the male victims of rape, seriously?! I can't even...
I think it would be a little difficult to get the real numbers for men seeing as under the law a man cannot be raped, so reporting it wouldn't really do anything. I'll be honest I don't know about sexual harassment numbers, but society as a whole pretty much says guys want it so it can't happen.
True enough.
A woman can commit the offence of assault by penetration however. I obviously support the rights of both men and women who have been victims in this regard. It is simply unacceptable.
Eh?
Under English Law a man can be raped by a woman but cannot be called a rapist - the wording of the statute does not allow for it.
A man can rape another man and be called a rapist.
That is the point being made.
I wasn't saying a man can't be raped, I was saying under the law it is impossible for a man to be "raped'. Only a woman can be "raped"
I forget the exact wording, but it's something like "rape is the act of a man penetrating a woman against her will."
I'll try to find the exact quote0 -
I knew that; but I thought you both live in the UK. I stand corrected if that is not the case.Jesus, I'm glad I don't live in the UK if that is what your laws say.
Errr, it isn't. You're talking to two separate people here.
I know me and the other dude look alike and all but still...0 -
But you don't get to define that for her.
I don't think back-biting and minimizing another person's experience is going to help us unite and fight against sexism in all its forms.I work in a male dominated field and have had to deal with real sexism... what the op is talking about is not sexism.
What the op is talking about is not sexism...
Does an individual get to define what every word means for themselves? From this point forward the word "tree" refers to the clear liquid that is necessary for life.
Exactly, otherwise everything spirals out of control! There has to be a clear definition of sexism for it to apply, or it becomes meaningless surely?
How do you prove it took place, e.g. in the workplace, if you can't even define what it is?0
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