Is butter the devil?

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Replies

  • CattOfTheGarage
    CattOfTheGarage Posts: 2,745 Member
    I love how the ppl who nay-say butter use man-made oils like margarine and canola and........

    Canola (rapeseed) is not a man made oil. It comes from a plant, related to mustard. Pretty yellow flowers.
    Yes it's a plant but without human intervention canola oil would never exist considering it's origins and then bred ot reduce the erucic acid content. Unfortunately refined canola contains trans fats from the deodorizing process....I opt out of most refined oil, including this one.

    Do you have a source for that?

    I didn't want to get into this, as I usually try to stay out of arguments related to canola oil as there is so much misinformation flying about, but please have a look at this: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp

    Canola oil was discredited by a sourceless chain email sent out years ago, which still circulates, and worse, the nonsense from it is widely circulated as de-sourced rumour, and for some unfathomable reason, widely believed.

    I'm not saying there are never any problems with rapeseed cultivation. It's a monoculture crop, there are various issues which can apply; seed-dressing with pesticides is a big issue, for instance, especially with respect to its effect on bees. Also the usual problems of soil degradation and overuse of fertilisers. But these are problems with industrial agriculture which need tackled at a systemic level, not problems with a specific crop.

    I live in the UK. Rapeseed oil is grown here, and hot-pressed purified rapeseed is to us what corn oil is to most of the USA, or sunflower to most of Europe. It's our standard cooking oil. It is not fake, man-made, poisonous, or loaded with trans fats. It is just oil. From a plant. Cold-pressed rapeseed is in fact a damn good salad oil, well worth trying.

    I understand concerns about food quality and the effects of industrialisation, but propagating baseless rumours is not the way to address these issues. It can in fact make them worse, by confusing the real issues.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    I love how the ppl who nay-say butter use man-made oils like margarine and canola and........

    Canola (rapeseed) is not a man made oil. It comes from a plant, related to mustard. Pretty yellow flowers.
    Yes it's a plant but without human intervention canola oil would never exist considering it's origins and then bred ot reduce the erucic acid content. Unfortunately refined canola contains trans fats from the deodorizing process....I opt out of most refined oil, including this one.

    Do you have a source for that?

    I didn't want to get into this, as I usually try to stay out of arguments related to canola oil as there is so much misinformation flying about, but please have a look at this: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp

    Canola oil was discredited by a sourceless chain email sent out years ago, which still circulates, and worse, the nonsense from it is widely circulated as de-sourced rumour, and for some unfathomable reason, widely believed.

    I'm not saying there are never any problems with rapeseed cultivation. It's a monoculture crop, there are various issues which can apply; seed-dressing with pesticides is a big issue, for instance, especially with respect to its effect on bees. Also the usual problems of soil degradation and overuse of fertilisers. But these are problems with industrial agriculture which need tackled at a systemic level, not problems with a specific crop.

    I live in the UK. Rapeseed oil is grown here, and hot-pressed purified rapeseed is to us what corn oil is to most of the USA, or sunflower to most of Europe. It's our standard cooking oil. It is not fake, man-made, poisonous, or loaded with trans fats. It is just oil. From a plant. Cold-pressed rapeseed is in fact a damn good salad oil, well worth trying.

    I understand concerns about food quality and the effects of industrialisation, but propagating baseless rumours is not the way to address these issues. It can in fact make them worse, by confusing the real issues.
    I'm not referring to a email rumor or it's safety, I'm referring to the name Canola. Rapeseed was bred to reduce it's eurcic acid content to less than 2% to receive a LEAR status which is an acronym for Low Eurcic Acid Rapeseed and the name Canola was coined by the Rapeseed Association of Canada from the contraction of Canadian and oil, where it was originally conceived from the University Of Manitoba. Now most Canola in North American is also Genetically Modified to resist disease because of it's increased use and importance monetarily. In Europe it's still called rapeseed but referred to as double zero rapeseed which is the same plant as the LEAR. Any rapeseed that doesn't conform to LEAR is not used for human consumption,so I can see why your confused.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    I think the only word that tells us all we need to know about canola is - Monsanto!

    Agreed the cold pressed Scottish Rapeseed oil is less processed than the Monsanto Canola, but it is still high in Omega 6 and there are healthier alternatives available. IMHO
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    I think the only word that tells us all we need to know about canola is - Monsanto!

    Agreed the cold pressed Scottish Rapeseed oil is less processed than the Monsanto Canola, but it is still high in Omega 6 and there are healthier alternatives available. IMHO
    The ratio of n:3's to n:6's in Canola is 2:1 which is pretty damn good, so I wouldn't consider that a negative. Personally I just don't consume refined oils and especially any that produce trans fats from the refining process. Cold pressed Canola wouldn't have any trans fats but trying to find colds pressed Canola is pretty much impossible in Canada or the USA. The EU doesn't allow GMO's to be imported so your rapeseed is different and cold pressed is probably the norm, but not here.
  • novembersuse
    novembersuse Posts: 77 Member
    I gave up on butter and switched to margarine BUT I heard that when they make that stuff, it comes out grey and the have to dye it yellow. Don't know if it's true, but it makes me want to go back to butter. Fat seems better than chemicals....
  • justal313
    justal313 Posts: 1,375 Member
    If i do go out to eat I get a salad with no dressing or specifically check that no animal products are used in preparing it.

    Study: No-fat, low-fat dressings don't get most nutrients out of salads
    June 19, 2012




    WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - The vegetables in salads are chock-full of important vitamins and nutrients, but you won't get much benefit without the right type and amount of salad dressing, a Purdue University study shows.

    In a human trial, researchers fed subjects salads topped off with saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat-based dressings and tested their blood for absorption of fat-soluble carotenoids – compounds such as lutein, lycopene, beta-carotene and zeaxanthin. Those carotenoids are associated with reduced risk of several chronic and degenerative diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease and macular degeneration.

    The study, published early online in the journal Molecular Nutrition & Food Research, found that monounsaturated fat-rich dressings required the least amount of fat to get the most carotenoid absorption, while saturated fat and polyunsaturated fat dressings required higher amounts of fat to get the same benefit.

    "If you want to utilize more from your fruits and vegetables, you have to pair them correctly with fat-based dressings," said Mario Ferruzzi, the study's lead author and a Purdue associate professor of food science. "If you have a salad with a fat-free dressing, there is a reduction in calories, but you lose some of the benefits of the vegetables."

    In the test, 29 people were fed salads dressed with butter as a saturated fat, canola oil as a monounsaturated fat and corn oil as a polyunsaturated fat. Each salad was served with 3 grams, 8 grams or 20 grams of fat from dressing.

    The soybean oil rich in polyunsaturated fat was the most dependent on dose. The more fat on the salad, the more carotenoids the subjects absorbed. The saturated fat butter was also dose-dependent, but to a lesser extent.

    Monounsaturated fat-rich dressings, such as canola and olive oil-based dressings, promoted the equivalent carotenoid absorption at 3 grams of fat as it did 20 grams, suggesting that this lipid source may be a good choice for those craving lower fat options but still wanting to optimize absorption of health-promoting carotenoids from fresh vegetables.

    "Even at the lower fat level, you can absorb a significant amount of carotenoids with monounsaturated fat-rich canola oil," Ferruzzi said. "Overall, pairing with fat matters. You can absorb significant amounts of carotenoids with saturated or polyunsaturated fats at low levels, but you would see more carotenoid absorption as you increase the amounts of those fats on a salad."

    The findings build on a 2004 Iowa State University study that determined carotenoids were more bioavailable – absorbed by the intestines – when paired with full-fat dressing as opposed to low-fat or fat-free versions. Ferruzzi; Wayne Campbell, a Purdue professor of nutrition science; Shellen Goltz, a Purdue graduate student in food science; and their collaborators, Chureeporn Chitchumroonchokchai and Mark L. Failla at Ohio State University, are the first to study different types of fats in differing amounts in human subjects.

    Ferruzzi and colleagues will next work on understanding how meal patterning affects nutrient absorption. He is trying to determine whether people absorb more nutrients if they eat vegetables at one time or if consumption is spread throughout the day.

    The U.S. Department of Agriculture funded the research.

    Writer: Brian Wallheimer, 765-496-2050, bwallhei@purdue.edu

    Source: Mario Ferruzzi, 765-494-0625, mferruzz@purdue.edu
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    I gave up on butter and switched to margarine BUT I heard that when they make that stuff, it comes out grey and the have to dye it yellow. Don't know if it's true, but it makes me want to go back to butter. Fat seems better than chemicals....
    All refined vegetable oils which is what's used in most margarine will go off color and mostly black/grey and why bleaching is part of that refining process along with deodorizing and for good reason, which makes the oil clear, like water. Color is added depending on the source to make it more presentable and marketable.
  • justal313
    justal313 Posts: 1,375 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.
    Don't forget to steep the pot of pot overnight to get all those essential nutrients.:bigsmile:
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.
    Which diets where you comparing the med and vegetarian diets to? And which of the 21 Countries that surround the Med where you referring to....why don't we start there.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.
    Don't forget to steep the pot of pot overnight to get all those essential nutrients.:bigsmile:

    You've got to get it right though, nothing worse than making a hash of it!
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,201 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.
    Don't forget to steep the pot of pot overnight to get all those essential nutrients.:bigsmile:

    You've got to get it right though, nothing worse than making a hash of it!
    Reheat and strain my friend.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.

    Here's one study showing the positive results of LCHF on HDL's and Triglyceride levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690
    (courtesy of Neanderthin).
  • JoyeII
    JoyeII Posts: 240 Member
    Your Dr is an idiot and should know that high cholesterol, especially the hereditary version. Eating things with cholesterol or saturated fat doesn't increase your cholesterol levels, in MOST cases it will actually decrease cholesterol levels.

    My advice is to seek a second opinion.

    Here is some reading about fat and cholesterol from well respected Dr's.

    http://coconutoil.com/mary_enig/

    http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

    ^^^^^^^^
    Yep!
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.

    Here's one study showing the positive results of LCHF on HDL's and Triglyceride levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690
    (courtesy of Neanderthin).

    But these were obese people who lost weight. That alone is known to improve lipids. That is hardly proof that HFLC diet has a positive health effect.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.

    Here's one study showing the positive results of LCHF on HDL's and Triglyceride levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690
    (courtesy of Neanderthin).

    But these were obese people who lost weight. That alone is known to improve lipids. That is hardly proof that HFLC diet has a positive health effect.

    Well I've shown you mine, your turn to show me yours.

    A study showing that a LC/HF diet doesn't improve health would be nice. :smile:

    Plus I certainly wouldn't dispute the health benefits of Mediterranean style diets. Lots of veg, olive oil, fish - sounds very healthy.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.

    Meh! Lazy pot-heads and their mixes. I make mine with butter, from scratch! (just like grandma taught me :laugh:)
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    You need a brownie mix/recipe that calls for oil. You sautee, lightly, the grass in the oil to help extract all the ummmm... vitamins.
    Don't forget to steep the pot of pot overnight to get all those essential nutrients.:bigsmile:

    You've got to get it right though, nothing worse than making a hash of it!
    Reheat and strain my friend.

    I'm not real fond of hash, honestly. I like my edibles though.
  • cstringfellow2013
    cstringfellow2013 Posts: 172 Member


    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    I bet you eat it straight out of the 'pot' as well. lol

    No way, Dude, it's a whole process. Check YouTube. :devil:

    Will this recipe be posted soon??
  • cchew686
    cchew686 Posts: 108
    Yes

    Butter is the devil, and after you die, it'll be poking you with a pitch fork as you burn in the depths of hell.

    Wouldn't the butter devil melt in the fiery depths of hell? How would it hold it's pitchfork?
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
    Considering that I eat less than a tablespoon per day of butter, if that, it can't possibly be the devil. :wink:

    Cake. Now, cake seems to be the devil...I can't quit eating it!!! (Hey, wait. Butter is in many cakes. Butter! You sly little devil!) :devil:

    Then again, I replace butter/oil with nonfat Greek yogurt and/or applesauce in my cakes to lower the calorie content. I STILL eat cake like crazy! :tongue:

    Common denominator? Sugar. So SUGAR is the devil. :bigsmile:

    ...Or could it be the wheat? :ohwell:

    I want cake, now. :tongue:

    What were we talking about, again?
  • Rays_Wife
    Rays_Wife Posts: 1,173 Member
    You and me and the devil makes three....

    opp6s3.jpg
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    High fat low carb diets are really coming into light at the moment, there have been so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal.

    Can you provide links to these studies that prove the health effects of a HFLC diet? Studies I've seen all point to Mediterranean and vegetarian being the most healthy diets, neither of which are low carb.

    Here's one study showing the positive results of LCHF on HDL's and Triglyceride levels.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14601690
    (courtesy of Neanderthin).
    Here are some showing negative effects of a high fat low carb diet.

    Low-carbohydrate diet scores and risk of type 2 diabetes in men. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21310828
    Conclusion: A score representing a low-carbohydrate diet high in animal protein and fat was positively associated with the risk of T2D in men.

    Negative effect of a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet on small peripheral artery reactivity in patients with increased cardiovascular risk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317
    Conclusion: These findings suggest that a dietary pattern characterised by a low amount of carbohydrate, but high amounts of protein and fat, is associated with a poorer small artery vascular reactivity in patients with increased CV risk.

    High saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet decreases lifespan independent of body weight in mice. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24472284
    Conclusion: A high-saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet decreased the survival of mice independent of bodyweight.

    I would really like to see the "so many studies proving its effectiveness on weightloss and a healthy overall goal".
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
    You and me and the devil makes three....

    opp6s3.jpg

    haha! I love that song!
  • Charlottesometimes23
    Charlottesometimes23 Posts: 687 Member
    Considering that I eat less than a tablespoon per day of butter, if that, it can't possibly be the devil. :wink:

    Cake. Now, cake seems to be the devil...I can't quit eating it!!! (Hey, wait. Butter is in many cakes. Butter! You sly little devil!) :devil:

    Then again, I replace butter/oil with nonfat Greek yogurt and/or applesauce in my cakes to lower the calorie content. I STILL eat cake like crazy! :tongue:

    Common denominator? Sugar. So SUGAR is the devil. :bigsmile:

    ...Or could it be the wheat? :ohwell:

    I want cake, now. :tongue:

    What were we talking about, again?

    What about cake with butter cream frosting......butter + sugar, whipped until light and fluffy, piped onto soft sweet cake......mmmmmmm :love:
  • WhiteRabbit1313
    WhiteRabbit1313 Posts: 1,091 Member
    Considering that I eat less than a tablespoon per day of butter, if that, it can't possibly be the devil. :wink:

    Cake. Now, cake seems to be the devil...I can't quit eating it!!! (Hey, wait. Butter is in many cakes. Butter! You sly little devil!) :devil:

    Then again, I replace butter/oil with nonfat Greek yogurt and/or applesauce in my cakes to lower the calorie content. I STILL eat cake like crazy! :tongue:

    Common denominator? Sugar. So SUGAR is the devil. :bigsmile:

    ...Or could it be the wheat? :ohwell:

    I want cake, now. :tongue:

    What were we talking about, again?

    What about cake with butter cream frosting......butter + sugar, whipped until light and fluffy, piped onto soft sweet cake......mmmmmmm :love:

    Sweet Jesus, yes! It really IS about the frosting, isn't it?

    Butter. D@mn you! Lol!
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member


    I prefer my butter to be made from cream rather than grass, but then, sometimes, I soak my grass in the butter to make "grown-up" brownies. :laugh: :smokin: (Just keep the heat low so you don't burn the grass!)

    I bet you eat it straight out of the 'pot' as well. lol

    No way, Dude, it's a whole process. Check YouTube. :devil:

    Will this recipe be posted soon??

    I think that would violate the ToS. But, there are several on YouTube, even channels devoted to it.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Considering that I eat less than a tablespoon per day of butter, if that, it can't possibly be the devil. :wink:

    Cake. Now, cake seems to be the devil...I can't quit eating it!!! (Hey, wait. Butter is in many cakes. Butter! You sly little devil!) :devil:

    Then again, I replace butter/oil with nonfat Greek yogurt and/or applesauce in my cakes to lower the calorie content. I STILL eat cake like crazy! :tongue:

    Common denominator? Sugar. So SUGAR is the devil. :bigsmile:

    ...Or could it be the wheat? :ohwell:

    I want cake, now. :tongue:

    What were we talking about, again?

    What about cake with butter cream frosting......butter + sugar, whipped until light and fluffy, piped onto soft sweet cake......mmmmmmm :love:

    Sweet Jesus, yes! It really IS about the frosting, isn't it?

    Butter. D@mn you! Lol!

    Without butter, it's not a proper frosting.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Considering that I eat less than a tablespoon per day of butter, if that, it can't possibly be the devil. :wink:

    Cake. Now, cake seems to be the devil...I can't quit eating it!!! (Hey, wait. Butter is in many cakes. Butter! You sly little devil!) :devil:

    Then again, I replace butter/oil with nonfat Greek yogurt and/or applesauce in my cakes to lower the calorie content. I STILL eat cake like crazy! :tongue:

    Common denominator? Sugar. So SUGAR is the devil. :bigsmile:

    ...Or could it be the wheat? :ohwell:

    I want cake, now. :tongue:

    What were we talking about, again?

    What about cake with butter cream frosting......butter + sugar, whipped until light and fluffy, piped onto soft sweet cake......mmmmmmm :love:

    Sweet Jesus, yes! It really IS about the frosting, isn't it?

    Butter. D@mn you! Lol!

    Sorry I've double checked and butter is definitely evil.

    Cannibal_cc50e2_1565602.jpg

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