Dairy Alarmism

mumblemagic

My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!

Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.

And honey is food intended for bees. Should we avoid it then?

^^^^ this

And fruit is an elaborate ruse by plants to make animals disperse their seeds for them.



Plants and animals don't live for the purpose of being eaten. They just want to survive and breed just like all other life on this planet. Animals become adapted to different diets through eating what's available to them and then natural selection causing the ones who thrive best on the available diet to leave their genes in future generations while the others don't thrive and so don't leave their genes in the next generation.. As a result of this, pecies evolve to suit the diet available to them. Regarding dairy, humans have only very recently evolved to be able to thrive on dairy products, and this new trait has only arisen in populations who are traditionally dairy farmers (because evolution takes time, although not as much time as some people think). So, if you're from one of those populations and have inherited that genetic trait, then dairy products are just as suitable for you as any other food humans eat. Because evolution didn't stop when we got vertical foreheads and pointy chins.

BTW if anyone objects to the idea of eating organisms that don't want to be eaten, please stop at veganism (i.e. a well balanced vegan diet) and don't become a fruitarian (because it's impossible for a human to get all their required nutrition on a fruitarian diet). But like it or not, this is how it is for the entire animal kingdom... eat other organisms or parts of other organisms or die. Sorry about that.

You're forgetting the breatharians! Because eating ANYTHING is cruel. If you try hard enough you'll spontaneously generate chloroplasts and be able to produce your own food! Of course, you'll be converting light energy in to chemical energy thus leading to the furthering of entropy in the universe, which is of course selfish. Because, science.

That's just horrible!

Carbon dioxide molecules are people, too!

Please don't tell the Breatharians this because I don't want to mop up after their heads explode, but everytime a person breathes in, bacteria, mold, all kinds of living crap is sucked in. If the immune system is working the way it should, our white blood cells then kills the unwitting little invaders. :huh:

Ew but lol

As a slight deviation, I would like to point out that chickens are arguably the most successful (since they are the most numerous) species of bird on the planet, due to their tasty-ness. Tasty-ness is a quality that, while not always good for the individual, is good for species propagation as a whole. Plants take advantage of this in the form of evolving yummy fruit. Chickens have benefitted from this as people have bred more and more for eating. Cows have also benefited from this; does anyone honestly think they would have been as successful as a species if humans hadn't bred them for food and meat?

tigersword

Cows were a very successful species. Although modern cows are a human invention, as are modern chickens and modern dogs.

To answer your question technically, no, modern day cows would not be a successful species without humans, because they never would've existed. Aurochs survived as a species for several million years before humans came along and hunted/bred them out of existence, turning them into the modern cow.

The same with chickens. Have you ever seen a wild chicken? Completely different bird compared to farm chickens. For one thing, wild chickens can fly.

SezxyStef

The fruititarian also ignores when people provide proof to destroy his outlandish claims.

But what exactly did I expect from someone like that? I should know better by now that those people are too brainwashed to acknowledge when they are wrong.

Tell me about it. I certainly know what it's like to read comments from someone so brainwashed they can't acknowledge the truth.

I bet he is one of those lobbyist you believe lurks on the MFP forums to "lobby" for big food corps...he must work for the dairy lobby group.../sarcasm

*hands everyone a tin foil hat*

In seriousness tho there is nothing wrong with dairy and it has proven esp in women to help combat issues later in life....I want strong bones and find that dairy is the best way for me to get enough calcium and great for protien.

As well I have seen adult animals drink milk...out of my cereal bowl so trust me it's not just humans who drink milk...given the chance animals will drink most things if they like the taste...

neandermagnon

re the above 2 posts

yep humans + farm animals = symbosis. Their evolutionary niche is being domesticated by humans. Agriculturalist humans are in a symbiotic relationship with them. Pretty much the whole species is as it would be impossible to support 7 billion + humans as hunter-gatherers. Modern hunter-gatherers live in places where agriculture is either impossible or extremely impractical. Humans are highly adaptable and our evolutionary niche is using technology to exploit whatever food sources are available to us, including domesticating animals.

And :laugh: @ carbon atoms are people too!!! Down with photosynthesis!!!!

LOL @ crafty witch... do you think they'll do something drastic to shut down their immune system completely so it stops killing all the poor little viruses and bacterias? :sad:

PaleoPath4Lyfe

My only question about dairy (and I am a huge ice cream lover) is that, at its foremost, it is food intended for a baby cow. Humans, as should come as no surprise, have nutrition requirements that are MILES away from a cow. Take a look at the constituents of bovine milk vs. human milk. It is pretty interesting. Is it the best thing to use dairy products formulated for a species so vastly different from our own? That is what makes me wonder. Of course, not when I eat my appropriate serving of Ben & Jerry's ice cream!

Edited to add: be wary when using the UDSA to evaluate meat and milk. The USDA's mission (at least one of them) is to promote our over-consumption of meat and dairy. That is why our food pyramids, for so long, has pushed meat, dairy, and cheese as particularly healthy. They are all loaded with saturated fats! There is a really good study out there about dairy, but I don't have my notes in front of me. I think it was the Nurses Heart research study or something like that. Try googling it. It is a real an eye opener about dairy.

That's just downright logical. How dare you bring logic into a MFP forum. Be prepared, the dairy industry plants are about to try and discredit you......

Maybe logical to you, but not to the rest of us.

Saturated fat is not unhealthy and there is nothing unhealthy about meat or dairy provided that it comes from sustainable sources - aka local farm with grass fed cows.

I work in the IT field and I am no where near being a plant for the dairy industry.

I don't buy dairy products from grocery stores nor does my meat and eggs come from grocery stores either. We seek out raw diary, grass fed meats and farm fresh chicken and eggs where they have scratched, hunted and pecked for their food.

UsedToBeHusky

Why not try a month without dairy, and decide for yourself?

Dude, do you seriously cruise the forums waiting for posts that you can jump immediately in on so you can be the first responder?

Do you think being the first responder gives you more credibility?

Because it doesn't...

FredDoyle

The fruititarian also ignores when people provide proof to destroy his outlandish claims.

But what exactly did I expect from someone like that? I should know better by now that those people are too brainwashed to acknowledge when they are wrong.

Tell me about it. I certainly know what it's like to read comments from someone so brainwashed they can't acknowledge the truth.

Irony so heavy, even Sidesteel couldn't lift it.

UsedToBeHusky

Maybe this has been around for a very long time, but I am starting to notice that many people regard milk and dairy as unhealthy. Considering that I do consume quite a bit of dairy, I spent a little time digging for information on why dairy is so bad for me.

With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.

Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?

No.

SideSteel

I'm not aware of any evidence that dairy is arbitrarily bad for people who can tolerate it.

I'm aware of multiple sources of evidence that it may be beneficial, some of which has been posted earlier in this thread.

However as with pretty much any individual food source, you can freely select foods that fit your preferences and/or ethics as long as you can find a way to meet your nutrient needs.

Just be careful not to make stuff up about that food item just because it doesn't fit your code of ethics.

As to the common argument that we are the only species that consume milk from other species, there's also some evidence to refute that as well: http://www.mastozoologiamexicana.org/doi/10.12933/therya-10-14/therya-10-14

rml_16

Maybe this has been around for a very long time, but I am starting to notice that many people regard milk and dairy as unhealthy. Considering that I do consume quite a bit of dairy, I spent a little time digging for information on why dairy is so bad for me.

With a quick web search, one can find numerous supposed reasons that dairy is terrible for you. However, after looking into many of the reasons, I feel that there is little to no scientific reason for me to avoid dairy. Everything seemed to either be a complete joke or at best lacking good support.

Help a man out. Are there any legitimate dairy concerns, backed by a consensus of good research?

If you feel sick after consuming it, you may be lactose intolerant and pobably shouldn't consume it. Or if you simply don't enjoy the taste.

Otherwise, I can think of no other reason to avoid it. Especially cheese. Anyone who won't eat cheese (for other than legitimate health reasons) is someone not to be trusted.

neandermagnon

As to the common argument that we are the only species that consume milk from other species, there's also some evidence to refute that as well: http://www.mastozoologiamexicana.org/doi/10.12933/therya-10-14/therya-10-14

That is fascinating. I've not heard of that before. Thanks for posting.

_John_

Besides lactose intolerances and allergies (which is a legit nutritional reason to avoid dairy) this recent paper dispels the other myth that has tried to be fabricated to support stances against milk.

Again, science...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22081694/

PRMinx

Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).

Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.

Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.

I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products

:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene






tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it

In to say thank you for sharing this. How fascinating! I'm a big 'ol Eastern and Western European mutt. I'm sure my ancestors from Ireland, Scotland and probably Poland were farmers. No one in my family has ever had a problem with dairy.

Also, if ice cream is wrong I don't ever want to be right.

ctkimmie

There are limits on how much pus, blood and fecal bacteria is allowed in milk. Beneficial bacteria exists in milk, as well. Bacteria exists in so many foods...sour dough bread, cheese, alcohol, kimchi, ham, yogurt, etc. Chug a glass of milk, fresh from the cow, or pass, to each his/her own.

MiloBloom83

This whole post makes me want a 1/3 lb bacon cheeseburger that gets washed down with a giant glass of ice cold cow's milk, preferable stolen from a hungry calf. Because I'm at the top of the food chain.

Oddly, i have no desire to eat fruit...

QuietBloom

Besides lactose intolerances and allergies (which is a legit nutritional reason to avoid dairy) this recent paper dispels the other myth that has tried to be fabricated to support stances against milk.

Again, science...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22081694/

Bookmarked! I science SO much...

QuietBloom

I'm not aware of any evidence that dairy is arbitrarily bad for people who can tolerate it.

I'm aware of multiple sources of evidence that it may be beneficial, some of which has been posted earlier in this thread.

However as with pretty much any individual food source, you can freely select foods that fit your preferences and/or ethics as long as you can find a way to meet your nutrient needs.

Just be careful not to make stuff up about that food item just because it doesn't fit your code of ethics.

As to the common argument that we are the only species that consume milk from other species, there's also some evidence to refute that as well: http://www.mastozoologiamexicana.org/doi/10.12933/therya-10-14/therya-10-14

Although it is not dairy the ants are receiving, some have a very similar relationship to aphids that humans and dairy cattle have.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071009212548.htm

cchew686

Note: Soy milk was supposed to be good for you until it was supposed to be bad for you but now it's supposed to be good for you again unless maybe you're a female in which case it might still be bad for you. Unless it's not.

Lol...I swear every other day on Yahoo health or whatever they call it, they have this kind of contradicting information. One day eggs will kill you, the next day they make you live forever. I just don't care anymore. I'll do what I want, see how it affects me, and go from there.

EreborsPrincess

[/quote]

HIgh five for the Tim Curry gif. I needed that this morning.

hasta_la_vista_belly

I eat cheese every day and incorporate heavy cream into a lot of my recipes. I also use real butter (is that considered dairy?). Hasn't posed a problem yet unless I go way overboard on the dairy for the day which is very rare.