Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?

jofjltncb6

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

What's unhealthy about regular cheesecake (as part of a calorie-controlled, nutritionally appropriate diet)?

:huh:

(And yes, your use of "healthy" in this context implies that regular cheesecake is "unhealthy", so we're once again back to the labels of "good" and "bad" food.)

establishingaplace

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

I once googled "paleo cornbread" and found a muffin recipe that was nothing like cornbread but was really freaking delicious. Used coconut flour and coconut oil; it was like a macaroon.

I bet a paleo cheesecake would use a lot of cashews and be insanely high in calories.

VoodooSyxx

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

Ok.. just sounds really low.. I'm often "full" before I hit 1600. but I want to be healthy, and a lot of that is eating right, not just eating less. I have TDEE of 2300 on a fairly non-active day and my active days will push it to 3500-4000. I try my best to eat more on those days. With varied success.

Is 1600 your net calories?? Or just your goal before exercise?

Disclaimer: I am not promoting my deficit for anyone else, just answering questions. It works for me, and that's all.

1600 is my goal, period. I don't go over and I don't eat back exercise calories. I generally get around 100g of carbs and 140g or more of protein off of that. Do lots of cardio and lift several times a week. I'm averaging around 3-4 pounds lost per week.

parkscs

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

jmv7117

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

What's unhealthy about regular cheesecake (as part of a calorie-controlled, nutritionally appropriate diet)?

:huh:

(And yes, your use of "healthy" in this context implies that regular cheesecake is "unhealthy", so we're once again back to the labels of "good" and "bad" food.)

No, it implies the Paleo cheesecake is healthy :drinker:

VoodooSyxx

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

Thank you. This is all pretty much my view on things as well. You just laid it all out really nicely.

jmv7117

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

I once googled "paleo cornbread" and found a muffin recipe that was nothing like cornbread but was really freaking delicious. Used coconut flour and coconut oil; it was like a macaroon.

I bet a paleo cheesecake would use a lot of cashews and be insanely high in calories.

I would think the ingredients would put it right up there with the best of cheesecakes!

Strokingdiction

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

But he doesn't eat back exercise calories so he's netting less than 1600. I'd consider that an aggressive deficit. It might be medically beneficial for him to lose the weight fast and forgo maintaining LBM. That seems like what he's doing because I suspect that the percentage of muscle to body fat lost is fairly high.

RGv2

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

JoRocka

Rant away it's ok but sorry I will take the title of terrible person because Papa Johns pizza is not in the same ballpark as pizza from the little Italian pizza shop

I love papajohn's pizza- it's almost the ONLY pizza I will order- every other single "mom and pop little italian place"- makes *kitten* pizza the way I like it- with green peppers and pepperoni.

I will eat "supreme" or meat lovers or whatever- actually- I've grown rather fond of "everything" pizza's but the reality is mom and pop stores- the green peppers come out looking like canned anchovies. They are so gross- even my die hard brooklyn old fashioned italian pizza place boyfriend finally ponied up and admitted the papa johns was a decent pizza- and it's CONSISTENT. He has a few places he prefers more- but he will eat papa johns with no wailing and gnashing of teeth. -

I gave up on trying to order from small chain's; their pizza blows- they only thing they are good at making are plain ole cheese pizza's and that's it- that's the ONLY thing that comes out consistent. And yes- I've had pizza in NYC. it's mediocre at best. Making it with anything 'extra' on it- is a recipe for disaster.

That sounds very okay, sensible and doable.

And I'm sure you don't feel like you're dying.

it's not sensible at all. 1600 is low for a man as it is- plus NOT eating back workout calories?

I'm eating around 1400-1500 a day- and I DO eat back my calories- and I'm a girl- and I workout between 10-15 hrs a week.

That being said- I am at the bottom bottom end of healthy for weight loss numbers- and I'm willing to accept that I'm not "happy" (I'm hungry ALL the time- I'm tired- recover is suffering) but I'm trying to meet a hard dead line- so I can absolutely understand the drive to push harder- esp if you are getting results- but you have to be careful.

jofjltncb6

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

What's unhealthy about regular cheesecake (as part of a calorie-controlled, nutritionally appropriate diet)?

:huh:

(And yes, your use of "healthy" in this context implies that regular cheesecake is "unhealthy", so we're once again back to the labels of "good" and "bad" food.)

No, it implies the Paleo cheesecake is healthy :drinker:

False dichotomy is false...

...but I accept that you won't understand this.



(I replied only for the benefit of those who still might.)

Confuzzled4ever

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

Ok.. just sounds really low.. I'm often "full" before I hit 1600. but I want to be healthy, and a lot of that is eating right, not just eating less. I have TDEE of 2300 on a fairly non-active day and my active days will push it to 3500-4000. I try my best to eat more on those days. With varied success.

Is 1600 your net calories?? Or just your goal before exercise?

Disclaimer: I am not promoting my deficit for anyone else, just answering questions. It works for me, and that's all.

1600 is my goal, period. I don't go over and I don't eat back exercise calories. I generally get around 100g of carbs and 140g or more of protein off of that. Do lots of cardio and lift several times a week. I'm averaging around 3-4 pounds lost per week.

Ok.. I was just asking. I'm not trying to pick apart your diet or your choices. just seems so low. I eat over 200g of protein most days and just over 100g carbs right now. Not losing that much per week, but I only have 20 lbs left to go, so that's to be expected. I just find it interesting that your calories are set to the same as mine. Of course.. I started out wayyy under eating. So I've increased calories and still lost the weight.

jofjltncb6

it's not sensible at all. 1600 is low for a man as it is- plus NOT eating back workout calories?

He'll be okay Jo. He'll be okay. Don't worry.

Thanks, doc.

Please keep us apprised of his health throughout this process...and please pay close attention to his transition from a deficit to maintenance, as I suspect that will be quite a challenge for your patient.

_John_

it's not sensible at all. 1600 is low for a man as it is- plus NOT eating back workout calories?

I can only speak for myself, but I lost 50 pounds in about 8 months eating roughly 2500 calories per day and lifting 3-4 days per week with little cardio...

I am a "big" guy even lean though (I hit 10% body fat at about 5'10" 200 lbs).

JoRocka

LOL- 2500- while lifting for a man- that's almost low- but it's sensible (Actually my friend has a show coming up- he's cutting at 2600 too) 1600 is just obscene LOL- hell I'm on 1400-1600 and I DO eat back and I still am like- gosh- this just is NOT much food at all!!!

it's not sensible at all. 1600 is low for a man as it is- plus NOT eating back workout calories?

He'll be okay Jo. He'll be okay. Don't worry.

I don't lose a lot of sleep at night over people I pretty much don't know and that I pretty much know haven't done their homework. It's just not an effcient use of my time- but thank you for easing my conscious- please let me know how his life goes and how his stat's go.

I could eat 1000 calories a day and 'function' I have the absolute will power to make it so. I'm cutting now and my average net is to low- I have a healthy relationship with food- I've never been obese- or truly suffered from any sort of eating disorder and I still have a hard time mentally meeting my goal- I'm more driven to cut weight and I'm absolutely willing to make myself miserable to get there- but I also KNOW for a fact- I cannot do it by tanking my metabolism.

Now maybe he's a big guy- and he's got a lot of energy reserves and it's going to work- for a while- but at some point- ti's just a bad idea.

There is absolutely, unequivocally no way it's "sensible"

VoodooSyxx

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

Ok.. just sounds really low.. I'm often "full" before I hit 1600. but I want to be healthy, and a lot of that is eating right, not just eating less. I have TDEE of 2300 on a fairly non-active day and my active days will push it to 3500-4000. I try my best to eat more on those days. With varied success.

Is 1600 your net calories?? Or just your goal before exercise?

Disclaimer: I am not promoting my deficit for anyone else, just answering questions. It works for me, and that's all.

1600 is my goal, period. I don't go over and I don't eat back exercise calories. I generally get around 100g of carbs and 140g or more of protein off of that. Do lots of cardio and lift several times a week. I'm averaging around 3-4 pounds lost per week.

Ok.. I was just asking. I'm not trying to pick apart your diet or your choices. just seems so low. I eat over 200g of protein most days and just over 100g carbs right now. Not losing that much per week, but I only have 20 lbs left to go, so that's to be expected. I just find it interesting that your calories are set to the same as mine. Of course.. I started out wayyy under eating. So I've increased calories and still lost the weight.

It's cool. I'm not upset or anything, and certainly don't much care if anyone does decide to pick it apart. I have a full time doc and my girlfriend live who lives with me was a USAF Medic for 7 years. They both know full well how I'm doing things, and keep a good eye on me. As long as I'm doing fine, I'm not sweatin anybody else.

toolzz

I use refried beans and salsa mixed as a base for my pizza - and feta or gaot cheese sprinkled on as a topping (with whatever else). it's awesome. Pizza is deathrow food.

dunnodunno

In to eat healthy...not.

parkscs

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

The "not eating exercise calories back" part came out after I typed my post, and yeah that does change things a bit. As others said, it will work for a while (provided he's not miserable/starving) but may well present a problem as he gets leaner. I'll defend aggressive cuts but that's a bit too aggressive for my tastes. Either way, best of luck to you voodoo, and just keep in mind you can always reevaluate your plan in the future as your body and goals change.

VoodooSyxx

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

The "not eating exercise calories back" part came out after I typed my post, and yeah that does change things a bit. As others said, it will work for a while (provided he's not miserable/starving) but may well present a problem as he gets leaner. I'll defend aggressive cuts but that's a bit too aggressive for my tastes. Either way, best of luck to you voodoo, and just keep in mind you can always reevaluate your plan in the future as your body and goals change.

Well, of course I'm going to have to when I get leaner. I expect that. While I have the weight to lose though, I see no reason to play around and stretch this out for longer than necessary. My doc tends to agree with me on this point.