Why do people seem to bash "healthy"eating?

JoRocka

LOL- 2500- while lifting for a man- that's almost low- but it's sensible (Actually my friend has a show coming up- he's cutting at 2600 too) 1600 is just obscene LOL- hell I'm on 1400-1600 and I DO eat back and I still am like- gosh- this just is NOT much food at all!!!

it's not sensible at all. 1600 is low for a man as it is- plus NOT eating back workout calories?

He'll be okay Jo. He'll be okay. Don't worry.

I don't lose a lot of sleep at night over people I pretty much don't know and that I pretty much know haven't done their homework. It's just not an effcient use of my time- but thank you for easing my conscious- please let me know how his life goes and how his stat's go.

I could eat 1000 calories a day and 'function' I have the absolute will power to make it so. I'm cutting now and my average net is to low- I have a healthy relationship with food- I've never been obese- or truly suffered from any sort of eating disorder and I still have a hard time mentally meeting my goal- I'm more driven to cut weight and I'm absolutely willing to make myself miserable to get there- but I also KNOW for a fact- I cannot do it by tanking my metabolism.

Now maybe he's a big guy- and he's got a lot of energy reserves and it's going to work- for a while- but at some point- ti's just a bad idea.

There is absolutely, unequivocally no way it's "sensible"

VoodooSyxx

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

Ok.. just sounds really low.. I'm often "full" before I hit 1600. but I want to be healthy, and a lot of that is eating right, not just eating less. I have TDEE of 2300 on a fairly non-active day and my active days will push it to 3500-4000. I try my best to eat more on those days. With varied success.

Is 1600 your net calories?? Or just your goal before exercise?

Disclaimer: I am not promoting my deficit for anyone else, just answering questions. It works for me, and that's all.

1600 is my goal, period. I don't go over and I don't eat back exercise calories. I generally get around 100g of carbs and 140g or more of protein off of that. Do lots of cardio and lift several times a week. I'm averaging around 3-4 pounds lost per week.

Ok.. I was just asking. I'm not trying to pick apart your diet or your choices. just seems so low. I eat over 200g of protein most days and just over 100g carbs right now. Not losing that much per week, but I only have 20 lbs left to go, so that's to be expected. I just find it interesting that your calories are set to the same as mine. Of course.. I started out wayyy under eating. So I've increased calories and still lost the weight.

It's cool. I'm not upset or anything, and certainly don't much care if anyone does decide to pick it apart. I have a full time doc and my girlfriend live who lives with me was a USAF Medic for 7 years. They both know full well how I'm doing things, and keep a good eye on me. As long as I'm doing fine, I'm not sweatin anybody else.

toolzz

I use refried beans and salsa mixed as a base for my pizza - and feta or gaot cheese sprinkled on as a topping (with whatever else). it's awesome. Pizza is deathrow food.

dunnodunno

In to eat healthy...not.

parkscs

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

The "not eating exercise calories back" part came out after I typed my post, and yeah that does change things a bit. As others said, it will work for a while (provided he's not miserable/starving) but may well present a problem as he gets leaner. I'll defend aggressive cuts but that's a bit too aggressive for my tastes. Either way, best of luck to you voodoo, and just keep in mind you can always reevaluate your plan in the future as your body and goals change.

VoodooSyxx

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

The "not eating exercise calories back" part came out after I typed my post, and yeah that does change things a bit. As others said, it will work for a while (provided he's not miserable/starving) but may well present a problem as he gets leaner. I'll defend aggressive cuts but that's a bit too aggressive for my tastes. Either way, best of luck to you voodoo, and just keep in mind you can always reevaluate your plan in the future as your body and goals change.

Well, of course I'm going to have to when I get leaner. I expect that. While I have the weight to lose though, I see no reason to play around and stretch this out for longer than necessary. My doc tends to agree with me on this point.

RGv2

One key in here....It's not 1600 net, it's 1600 gross. I would venture net is closer to 1000-1200?

The "not eating exercise calories back" part came out after I typed my post, and yeah that does change things a bit. As others said, it will work for a while (provided he's not miserable/starving) but may well present a problem as he gets leaner. I'll defend aggressive cuts but that's a bit too aggressive for my tastes. Either way, best of luck to you voodoo, and just keep in mind you can always reevaluate your plan in the future as your body and goals change.

Well, of course I'm going to have to when I get leaner. I expect that. While I have the weight to lose though, I see no reason to play around and stretch this out for longer than necessary. My doc tends to agree with me on this point.

When you get leaner and your metabolism is hosed up?

I've been here done that on this one, I'm just trying to give you a little advice from someone who severely underrate while cutting a bunch of weight. Slow and steady wins the race on this one, but it's your body. I'm only speaking from experience.

Good luck with it, I guess I'd just prefer to see a little less speaking down about food choices of others when you have taken such an extreme road.

And as the poster below has pointed out....now may be a good time to recalculate....

WinoGelato

I cannot even fathom how much "meat and green leafy things" you must be eating in order to fill you up more than a large pizza.

Everyone is different you know..

if you can eat an entire pizza and it fills you for hours, then that is great for you. Eating a large pizza will *empty* me, rather quickly, if you catch my drift and i'll be hungry soon thereafter. I am capable of eating an entire pizza in one sitting too.

Or I can make my HUGE dinner of "meat and green leafy things" and be full for a long time. More protein in my dinner versus the pizza, less fat, less carbs less calories and less grease in my dinner and full longer. That's so winning it almost needs a new category.


ETA: i'm assuming pizza you buy, not homemade pizza. Which can be very healthy and filling depending on how it's made. I've experienced both sides when eating homemade pizza.

Yep, fully aware that people are different. Some people have been saying for a couple of days that pizza and burrito bowls are unhealthy. When pressed to further define "unhealthy" it was then changed to "because it doesn't fill me up". I'm just honestly confused, and maybe this is because I'm a petite female, how a burrito bowl or an entire pizza (and I wasn't distinguishing between homemade or delivery) can not fill you up. I don't eat an entire pizza, because I am honestly too full after 2-3 slices. I get that people can eat a lot more than I do, I'm just trying to understand, if satiety is what you are looking for - how much volume of meat and vegetables one would have to consume to surpass the full feeling that comes from pizza.

As others have pointed out there are plenty of ways to modify pizza recipes to make them "healthier" by whatever definition you subscribe to. Completely eliminating pizza forever for your diet because you deem it "unhealthy", sounds like a miserable existence.

No kidding. That's why I don't plan to do that. You see right now, with my current calorie deficit, a couple pieces of pizza is a meal or actually a bit more. If I ate those two pieces, I would then find myself in a really horrible position of being ridiculously hungry and out of calories. Besides, I don't know if this is the same for everyone but my local PaPaJohns doesn't deliver two pieces of pizza. You know what happens when you put a ravenously hungry fat man in a room with a large pizza? Bad Things happen.

Now one day when utopia has arrived, I will be at maintenance, and I will fully enjoy those two pieces of pizza and then I will fill up on foods that don't just taste good and wave goodbye a few minutes later.

WTF is your calorie goal set at for 2 pieces of pizza to screw it up?

1600. I suppose if I had a lot less to lose or wanted to still be jackin around with the same cut years from now, I could set it up somewhere around where yours is.

Voodoo If your ticker is right, you are over halfway to your goal and have less than 30lbs left to lose. Might be time to recalculate those numbers and give yourself some extra calories to work with...

Wait, I just saw your later post. You eat 1600 tops, and don't eat back exercise calories? I am 5'2 and my goal is set at ~1700 and I eat closer to 2000. I really cannot fathom how you are not chewing your arm off every single day.

Confuzzled - clearly pizza has some undesirable effects on your that make it not your food of choice. I get that - anything that has both grease and dairy in it has always done a number on me (cheese fries, greasy pizza, etc). The comments earlier in the thread was that pizza was "unhealthy" and all I've been trying to do is differentiate between "unhealthy because it is going to do bodily harm to the average person" and "it just doesn't fill me up". Individual reactions to certain foods is certainly something that needs to be taken into consideration when a person is choosing their food for the day. Totally agree.

VoodooSyxx

Voodoo If your ticker is right, you are over halfway to your goal and have less than 30lbs left to lose. Might be time to recalculate those numbers and give yourself some extra calories to work with...

My ticker is right...to my first goal. When I get there I'll be 5'10" 240 lbs. I'm at 261 now. I have plenty to lose.

Edit: I'm just going to add for all the people feeling the need to second guess me and the medical professionals I get my info from, I no longer have the knees I was born with. I have a crapload of plates, pins, and rods in there. I have a family history of bad hearts, diabetes, cancer, and ever other nasty thing you can imagine. The past three gens of men that I came from all died before they got to 55 years old. I have bigger issues to deal with than loose skin or looking good in a bikini.

WendyTerry420

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

I know that my brother has bad loose skin, and I have none yet. That's what I am saying. There are a lot of reasons to avoid being aggressive with weight loss.

WendyTerry420

Let me get down into bunker before I utter the words cauliflower crust. I know it's a horrible crime against pizza-humanity (pizzamanity? pizzanity?) but I personally find it delicious and enough to satisfy that pizza desire when I'm looking to save calories.

Maybe just call it a cauliflower recipe rather than a pizza recipe.

But you actually eat that and admit to it? And say you think it's tasty?

Courageous girl you are

You could survive a famine using grass recipes. And call it green salad

This thread is going in soooo many different directions - pizza recipes, borscht gifs, who's a Southerner? and now....

Cauliflower hating!

Personally, I love cauliflower, roasted with a little olive oil and topped with a little parm cheese. I haven't tried the cauliflower pizza crust. Sounds yummy if you like cauliflower.

Here's a new twist, Paleo cheesecake. Healthy and Paleo!

I once googled "paleo cornbread" and found a muffin recipe that was nothing like cornbread but was really freaking delicious. Used coconut flour and coconut oil; it was like a macaroon.

I bet a paleo cheesecake would use a lot of cashews and be insanely high in calories.

I have found that most "paleo" desserts are insanely high in calories.

WendyTerry420

That is my BMR.. are you sure you have your calories set right? i'm a 5'10" woman and I weight 191.

Yeah, it's low but it's set right. As long as I stick to my plan I'm plenty full on that, and have more than enough fuel to exercize on.

But what about LBM loss and loose skin?

Provided he lifts and eats ample protein, he won't lose more LBM unless he eats at such an aggressive deficit that his body can't pull enough energy from his fat stores - at 1600 net calories, he'd likely have to be in the single digits for body fat to even be at risk of that happening. If he can cut faster and then look to recomp/bulk, he'll probably come out with more LBM over the next few years by cutting more quickly, versus if he cut at 0.5-1.0lb/week unnecessarily. The only good reason (IMO) to cut at a very slow rate when you have a good amount of weight to lose is if you cannot suppress your appetite in any other way and you just have to eat those extra calories to stick with your cut - but that's almost never the case.

As for loose skin, there's really nothing to suggest that cutting very slowly is any better than cutting quickly, other than in the "slow" cut your body has more time for your skin to adjust. People typically compare someone who cuts over 2 years with someone who cut within 1 year, but that's not apples to apples, since you're comparing a time period of 2 years with a time period of 1 year (as an example). For instance, if you compare a male who cuts quickly to single digit BF %'age in one year and maintains single digit BF %'age for another year, to another male who cuts slowly over the course of 2 years, I suspect you'd see very little difference in loose skin.

You also have to consider that it's much better from a health perspective to drop the weight sooner rather than later. In short, all signs point to an aggressive cut, provided you can see it through.

But he doesn't eat back exercise calories so he's netting less than 1600. I'd consider that an aggressive deficit. It might be medically beneficial for him to lose the weight fast and forgo maintaining LBM. That seems like what he's doing because I suspect that the percentage of muscle to body fat lost is fairly high.

Yeah, even with lifting and a good protein intake, you can only be aggressive through the "morbidly obese" stage. After that, there is no advantage to aggressive weight loss.

JoRocka

I have found that most "paleo" desserts are insanely high in calories.

but they are clean- and whole- so you can have as many of them as you want!!!

WendyTerry420

I use refried beans and salsa mixed as a base for my pizza - and feta or gaot cheese sprinkled on as a topping (with whatever else). it's awesome. Pizza is deathrow food.

That sounds more like a tostado than a pizza. Love me some refried beans though. And if I were on death row, I certainly wouldn't pick pizza as my last meal. It'd be king crab for the main course, for sure.

WendyTerry420

I have found that most "paleo" desserts are insanely high in calories.

but they are clean- and whole- so you can have as many of them as you want!!!

:laugh:

Yep, if it says "paleo," then it has no calories. I forgot!

parkscs

I know that my brother has bad loose skin, and I have none yet. That's what I am saying. There are a lot of reasons to avoid being aggressive with weight loss.

While I'm not questioning your n=2 example, you have to realize that's entirely anecdotal evidence and adds little to the discussion of will someone else have loose skin. Simply put, whether or not you have loose skin doesn't mean that everyone who cuts slowly can avoid loose skin, nor does your brother's experience suggest that everyone who cuts quickly will have bad loose skin and require surgery. It entirely depends on your skin and its ability to recover. For that matter, I have a hard time rationalizing why your skin's ability to recover its elasticity would be impaired because you have less fat on your body (let's say 6 months into a fast cut) relative to when you have more fat on your body (again 6 months but now into a slow cut). Sure, when you first hit your goal weight you may have more lose skin than the guy who cuts weight slowly. But the real question is how does your body respond if if you then hold your goal weight (particularly if you get very lean and hold single digit BF or close to it) for a substantial period of time, perhaps doing a recomp along the way.

jmv7117

I have found that most "paleo" desserts are insanely high in calories.

but they are clean- and whole- so you can have as many of them as you want!!!

No, but a lot of folks eating Paleo also do crossfit so I'm sure they can eat fairly high calories. A few of our friends are into crossfit and also eat Paleo. It's amazing how much they can eat!

WendyTerry420

I know that my brother has bad loose skin, and I have none yet. That's what I am saying. There are a lot of reasons to avoid being aggressive with weight loss.

While I'm not questioning your n=2 example, you have to realize that's entirely anecdotal evidence and adds little to the discussion of will someone else have loose skin. Simply put, whether or not you have loose skin doesn't mean that everyone who cuts slowly can avoid loose skin, nor does your brother's experience suggest that everyone who cuts quickly will have bad loose skin and require surgery. It entirely depends on your skin and its ability to recover. For that matter, I have a hard time rationalizing why your skin's ability to recover its elasticity would be impaired because you have less fat on your body (let's say 6 months into a fast cut) relative to when you have more fat on your body (again 6 months but now into a slow cut). Sure, when you first hit your goal weight you may have more lose skin than the guy who cuts weight slowly. But the real question is how does your body respond if if you then hold your goal weight (particularly if you get very lean and hold single digit BF or close to it) for a substantial period of time, perhaps doing a recomp along the way.

Yeah, I haven't done any hard core research. My brother started losing weight about 6 months before me. When I saw his loose skin, I tightened up my deficit real quick. I can't imagine anyone wanting to lose that quickly once they are out of the "obese" category.

ETA< and I'm a female, so I will NOT be going into a "single digit BF% Hell to the no!


Also, I have been maintaining for about 6 months now without logging, so I'm doing something right.

parkscs

ETA< and I'm a female, so I will NOT be going into a "single digit BF% Hell to the no!

Nor would I suggest it. That example was directed at men, if that wasn't clear from the post/context/#'s.

husseycd

These discussions crack me up. I have yet to figure out why anyone cares what I, or anyone else, eats. I suppose if you are a person that has ethical issues with food, I'll give you a pass to express your opinion. But to tell me white bread is killing me, or express disdain over my love of banana "pancakes"? Don't get it at all.

That being said, I have my own opinions on food and do choose to eat a certain way to reach my goals. When I first came to MFP, I was thin and ate a lot of "crap"--processed foods (the kind that come in a box), fast food, tons of bread/bagels/pasta, etc. And I had no problem maintaining a healthy weight. Granted, I tended to be hungry a lot, but my weight was fine. I'm still thin 1 year later (though about 10 lbs lighter), but prefer the sheer amount of food I can eat since I started eating more simply: egg and sweet potato for breakfast, chicken and broccoli for lunch, etc... "Clean" to some people. :shrugs:

So if someone asks, I'll share my experience. I do better when I avoid the junk food, but it doesn't mean you will. And I definitely don't think it's killing you. We seem to be living longer and longer with less and less healthy food in our diet.

I also still eat "dirty" on occasion. And I drink. A lot. :drinker: