How to tell vegan friends to back off?!
Replies
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""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."
You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.
By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.
Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.
If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.
OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.
Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.
But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.0 -
I have to say though, the whole "we're meant to eat meat" thing is annoying. "Meant to" by who? God? Will we die without it? Am I a zombie at this point?
Physiologically, it's hard to argue that human beings are "meant to be" omnivores. Most herbivores have eyes set on the sides of their heads, to see predators coming. They generally have vision up to about 270 degrees or so. Human beings have eyes set on the front of their heads, like predatory species, not prey species.
Human beings primarily have teeth that cut and tear. Our grinding teeth are limited and set at the back of our mouths. Other omnivorous or carnivorous animals have such teeth. Herbivorous mammals have tearing teeth at the font of their mouths and grinding teeth all along their jaws.
Human beings have two breasts on the front of their bodies. In terms of mammals, we're pikers: dogs, for example, have up to ten "breasts" on their bellies (I think they actually have 8 breasts and 10 nipples, but I might be mistaken). Regardless. Most herbivores nurse their young from udders between their hind legs. I'm pretty sure Al Bundy didn't read "Udder 'Uns."
Herbivores digest cellulose. Human beings do not. Some herbivores have several stomachs that allow them to break down cellulose efficiently. When was the last time anyone here saw a human being chew his/her cud?
Human beings have guts of moderate length. Herbivores tend to have very long or complex guts, including those multiple stomachs at times, to aid in the digestion of cellulose. Our guts are neither as long as herbivores or as short as carnivores. That in itself would suggest an omnivorous diet.
Herbivores are born capable of walking and running within minutes of their birth. Human beings, like other omnivores, are born with poor vision and essentially undeveloped. We are slightly more developed than carnivorous animals or to omnivores closer to carnivorous. Feline and canine species, after all, are born with sealed ears and eyes, whereas human beings have limited vision and can hear.
So, whether you argue the existence of God or not--and I believe that God exists and is the Creator--it would seem logical that we were physiologically "meant" to eat meat. We might not die without it, but most vegans take a boatload of supplements. In my opinion, most vegans don't look healthy, especially those who have been at it for a while or those who claim to have active lifestyles. To me, that would speak to them having a less than adequate diet *for the species* even if they can sustain themselves quiet adequately on what they eat.
This was very informative and well written! Thanks!0 -
Wow I can so relate to this. My wife has this one friend who always tries to make us feel bad about eating meat whenever we go out together. She'll say stuff like, "Eating dead animal flesh is really bad for your energy, you two should really try..." blah blah blah. I don't tell anybody else how to eat, so when I'm out with friends, I prefer to eat what I like without being hassled about it.0
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""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."
You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.
By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.
Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.
If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.
OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.
Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.
But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.
Don't feed the troll.0 -
""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."
You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.
By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.
Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.
If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.
OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.
Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.
But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.
So you think that all the anti-animal agriculture bills in various states and new laws that are making animal production of any kind difficult are written by omnivores and animal welfare proponents? Are you admitting that "ethical" veganism is a religion? If you're not, then the first part of your statement is a non sequitur.0 -
Don't feed the troll.
Interesting definition of troll: don't discuss things with someone who disagrees with you. It's a valid perspective and one that can be mentioned because of the pressure being put upon the OP to conform to the alternate lifestyle.0 -
I like the idea of carrying bacon around. When your friends/family start their vegan rant, reach into your pocket and grab a piece. Take a big bite and say, "Yuuuummmmm, Bacon. That's why" But I'm passive aggressive.0
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Ugh. Thankfully, my vegan friends don't push it on others, but I have friends doing MLM businesses who are just as bad. I have a feeling the trick to getting people to back off on both is the same, but I can't figure out what it is ...0
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I have the same problem but kind of opposite when people try to offer me wheat products. I, in no way try to tell them to give up wheat, but when we are out at dinner they constantly say well just try a bite, it won't really hurt you, you'll be fine. I think at some point you just have to get the courage to say please stop asking me, you eat how you want to and I will eat how I want to.
Don't be afraid to stand up for your self.0 -
I was vegan for about 3 years and I have to say that aggressive vegan people always annoyed me. I'm not sure how they think they are going to convert anyone by being acting that way. I don't think you have to explain yourself at all, just tell them you would prefer that they keep thier opinions to themselves. They should lead by example. Besides, you DID give it a try and it didn't work for you. When I changed my mindset to an all whole foods diet I started eating everything again. It just didn't make sense to me to eat some artificial stuff to take the place of something else when I could get organic, humanely raised animal products from a number of local and reputable family farms. I'm healthier for making those changes. I respect those who choose to follow a vegan lifestyle and would never tell someone they should not be vegan if that's what works for them. You certainly can be healthy by following that lifestyle. They should show others the same respect.0
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I've always wondered what the family of these people have to put up with. I would agree with the shotgun comment.
my family deals really well with my being vegan - mostly because they are not psychopathic morons who think killing someone with different morals than you is a good idea :happy: thank universe for me
other people however are incredibly rude and disgusting towards me about it & yet I do not threaten their lives with violence
weird0 -
""Ethical" vegans, if they are also animal right activists/animal liberationists have certainly been linked to violence."
You also noted that you "can't co-exist" with ethical vegans, be they animal rights activists/animal liberationists or not. Just seems like a lot of people here assume that they can make blanket statements about ethical vegans is all. A lot of us are peace-loving people.
By its very nature, "ethical" veganism labels my way of life cruel and wants to eliminate it. So no, I can't co-exist with that.
Actually, "ethical veganism" has nothing to do with elimination. Being an ethical vegan means that I choose not to eat meat because *I* believe it is unethical. While ethical vegans might hope that people would stop consuming/exploiting animals, at its core, it has only to do with the reason that particular person chooses not to eat meat. Vegans who do so for health reasons do it for their own health - not yours. Ethical veganism is similar in this regard.
If you believe it is unethical, then you are labeling the majority of the population as unethical. The rest of your post is just whitewash. I've seen too much from animal rights/animal liberation types and other types of humaniacs to believe otherwise.
OP, just dump those so-called friends. They're trying to save your soul and eating is not a moral act. It's something we do because we need to survive and also because we enjoy it. Someone giving you the label of "unethical" is not an act of friendship and the attempt to convert you against your will is pretty much an act of violence.
Some people think it's unethical or inappropriate for women to show their hair in public. Someone who follows a certain religion very closely might be instructed by their holy texts to shun others who don't have the same beliefs. Just because we think differently doesn't mean we can't co-exist - a society doesn't evolve as a whole if they allow semantic labels to divide them and cause animosity.
But, I'm glad you're not throwing blanket statements out because you've "heard enough from animal rights people". This ethical vegan thinks and speaks otherwise.
So you think that all the anti-animal agriculture bills in various states and new laws that are making animal production of any kind difficult are written by omnivores and animal welfare proponents? Are you admitting that "ethical" veganism is a religion? If you're not, then the first part of your statement is a non sequitur.
1) So you think that all the anti-animal agriculture bills in various states and new laws that are making animal production of any kind difficult are written by omnivores and animal welfare proponents?
I'm sure that a good bunch of the people who put these laws into effect are ethical vegans. I'm sure some of them are just people who wish to eradicate suffering too, in the recent case of the banning of gestation crates for pigs. I'd certainly rather people make the change they wish to see through laws rather than violence - to me, laws change as society changes. Things that promote suffering - be they related to humans or animals - are becoming outdated.
Also, I don't really have a qualm with the production of animal products becoming more regulated. I'm happy to see legislature pass banning gestation crates or the sale of "downed" animals because I think that everyone should be against needless suffering, vegans and omnivores alike. However, if you'd like to discuss legislature that I haven't mentioned, I'm happy to talk about that too.
2) Are you admitting that "ethical" veganism is a religion?
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?0 -
The OP described my cousin. One day she was "preaching" her views etc and I finally decided to add to the conversation which went something like this.
Me: So your Vegan, right?
Her: Yes
Me: So what spells can you cast?
Her: What?
Me: You know, Vegan, you're like a druid right? And druids can cast spells.
Her: *silence*.. end of conversation
and before I get chastised, we have a very good relationship and will continue to do so. I was just pointing out that her opinion and mine weren't the same and we should agree to silently disagree.0 -
Seriously? The same way I tell my omnivore friends to back off. Commenting on someone else's food choices is rude, no matter what philosophy you are pushing. Repeat after me:
"I won't comment on your food choices, and I need you not to comment on mine."
Of course, that means that you can't criticize them for being vegan, either. Given that you started a thread just to complain about them, that may be difficult.0 -
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.0 -
I get it family and friends who are vegan have their views but they always try to push it on me or others, it's like solicitors that come door to door trying to get you to take their pamphlets or switch to their internet provider. I respect their choice and so make sure to include meals they can eat during a get together. But I don't push them to eat animal products.
And I've already heard "well if you tried it you'll like it or feel better". Yeah I was vegan for over a year before but it wasn't for me. At the time I was rowing and competing in regattas which meant I was training in the gym 5 days and on the water 4 days of the week. Perhaps it was the timing but I could never get enough calories or protein from alternative sources. I felt weaker and was always tired.
I already don't eat most dairy products and during the week include vegan meals but I just like meat.
Simply saying "no thank you" or even explaining what I just did here doesn't seem to work. Anyone else experience this? What do you do?
Hell, just tll them a meal isnt a meal if there is no meat involved. I dont know many, but those I do are pretty pushy. Make fun of them enough that they stop bothering you about it.0 -
Can't we all just get along!!!!!!!
*sigh* this hurts my delicate sensibilities.
Some people period are pushy, if you can't properly deal with pushy people, and believe me, I've had my fair share of meat loving pushy people try to be jerks to me, then maybe you should distance yourself? Problem solved.
It really isn't that hard.0 -
Seriously? The same way I tell my omnivore friends to back off. Commenting on someone else's food choices is rude, no matter what philosophy you are pushing. Repeat after me:
"I won't comment on your food choices, and I need you not to comment on mine."
Of course, that means that you can't criticize them for being vegan, either. Given that you started a thread just to complain about them, that may be difficult.
This basically. I mean you deal with such a situation the same way you deal with any situation in which people around you are doing things you don't like. Doesn't really matter what they are doing, matters a bit who they are in how you approach it but in any situation it just requires being assertive unless the people you are dealing with are in some way sociopathic.
I don't "get" veganism but I still wouldn't think it appropriate to nag a vegan about being vegan. I might ask them to explain it to me once just to get another persons viewpoint but I wouldn't harp on it.0 -
A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
Happens all the time.0 -
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
There are vegans who do so for health reasons, such as limiting saturated fat, addressing cholesterol problems, etc.
I, on the other hand, like coconut oil too much to cut down on saturated fats.
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"No other animal drinks milk into adulthood!"
"That's because no other animal is smart enough to figure out how to milk a cow."
My cats do...out of our glasses *friggen cats* actually stick their paws in a glass of milk and lick it off their paws...
To the OP...back off.....or more political...I accept you have your thoughts on food and I have mine and how would you like it if I tried to shove my beliefs down your throat everytime we got together???? Wouldn't like it very much.
I don't have vegan friends...I have a vegetarian friend and we discuss her lifestyle...I give her info on things I have read etc she is greatful as she isn't a vegetarian for any other reason than she doesn't like meat...go figure...so doesn't do research on it.0 -
This isn't to do with them being vegan it's about being stubborn and disrespectful.
If being polite isn't working then it's time to evaluate who you have in your life. If it's family you can't get away from then a firm "leave me alone!" may suffice.
They're not respecting your choices, so don't accept their actions and very strongly tell them to stop.
^^this0 -
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
There are vegans who do so for health reasons, such as limiting saturated fat, addressing cholesterol problems, etc.
I, on the other hand, like coconut oil too much to cut down on saturated fats.
Okay adopting full on veganism just to avoid saturated fat seems a bit overkill to me but in a situation where they have friends who are vegan and they want to hop on that bandwagon for support with the reasons behind it being their health then okay.
I don't think being vegan makes you healthy though by default so I think its an odd approach to health. Ethical veganism I at least see where that is coming from...you have an ethical problem with societies use of animals and as a result you choose to avoid animal products, that is logic I can follow. You want to avoid saturated fats so you adopt a policy of avoiding ALL animal products? Yeah, less logic there.0 -
A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
Happens all the time.
Okay well I guess I should rephrase that I can respect the logic of someone who is vegan for ethical reasons but someone who is vegan for "health" reasons strikes me as someone who hasn't done their homework or is jumping on a nearby bandwagon because yeah I don't think being vegan = being healthier.0 -
I totally agree with you. I was simply answering your question. :-)
A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
Happens all the time.
Okay well I guess I should rephrase that I can respect the logic of someone who is vegan for ethical reasons but someone who is vegan for "health" reasons strikes me as someone who hasn't done their homework or is jumping on a nearby bandwagon because yeah I don't think being vegan = being healthier.0 -
A lot of people think a vegan diet is healthier than eating meat or think it's a good way to lose weight.
Ethical veganism is a way of eating, but also a moral code - it's about right vs. wrong. And really, what is religion other than a moral code that designates what is right and wrong?
I would personally think that all vegans are "ethical vegan" in that it is hard for me to understand why anyone would adopt veganism for reasons other than they believe that use of animals is unethical. I mean other than "ethical vegans" what other types of vegans are there? No one becomes vegan for health reasons right because that would be hard to justify in my opinion.
Happens all the time.
Okay well I guess I should rephrase that I can respect the logic of someone who is vegan for ethical reasons but someone who is vegan for "health" reasons strikes me as someone who hasn't done their homework or is jumping on a nearby bandwagon because yeah I don't think being vegan = being healthier.
"Health reasons" could also be as simple as "I feel better when I eat vegan" - doesn't necessarily need to be to address a certain issue.0 -
Find a vehement Paleo diet follower. Introduce to the vegans. Get popcorn.
Seriously, though, just be blunt. If they bring it up, tell them you aren't discussing it. If they won't stop, then find new friends. The same advice would apply to anyone in your life who's being pushy about anything.0 -
This reminds me of a great joke:
How do you know someone's a vegan?
Don't worry they'll tell you!0 -
I believe the F word is where you start! lol just kidding0
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Find a vehement Paleo diet follower. Introduce to the vegans. Get popcorn.
:laugh:0
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