How to tell vegan friends to back off?!
Replies
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Yup. Vegan pushers. I'm a vegetarian myself, and I experience the same type of idiocy from insistent meat-eaters who simply don't "get" why I wouldn't eat meat (I was raised vegetarian, I've never had it unless it was by accident). Even when you tell them politely why your eating habits are the way they are, I've had people (fast food workers, "friends", etc.) attempt to trick me into eating meat by not providing other options, or deliberately lying about what is in their meals. And then, of course, there is the other opposite side of the spectrum of militant vegans who are appalled that I would even consider drinking milk (I don't have many other sources of protein, which I kind of need), or anything that isn't grown from the soil of my gardens.
Eventually, I just stopped talking to these people. The silent treatment works wonders. Food is an important part of my life. I want to enjoy what I eat and how I eat it, whatever that may be, because it sustains me. I don't find it very kind of others to judge me on this front, because you should enjoy what you eat and you don't need other people to drag that down for you. And quite honestly, there are a great many other things that folks could have convictions about other than what food other people choose to put in their bodies.0 -
Maybe you can just explain how much harder (and a lot of times expensive) it is to get vitamin D, iron, vitamin b-12 and lots of other vitamins and minerals through a vegan diet. I'm all for cruelty-free and my boyfriend has been vegan 2 years but he tries pretty hard to hit all the bases with vitamins/food and even he has deficiencies. I want to eat healthy but not have to over think it. He bugs me about it sometimes but it's a pretty valid argument.0
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I disagree....I don't find it hard to get any of my nutrients, or expensive.
Beer for everyone!!!!!0 -
No probBut what about B12? We need B12, and the general population gets it from meat sources without a problem. Vegans need B12 supplements because they don't get it in their diet. If we didn't need meat, then why is it (basically, with the exception of dairy and eggs) the only source of B12?
ETA: My knowledge on the whole B12 thing is relatively small, so if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. But from my general understanding, someone on a vegan diet would struggle greatly without supplementation. I doubt man kind would be here today if our ancestors partook in a vegan diet. Although, given our access to B12 supplements I suppose you could say that nowadays, meat isn't necessary?
B12 is a bacteria. People get B12 from cows for example, because cows eat it off grass. Yes vegans need to supplement for it, just as people supplement for vitamin D- ever notice how milk has vitamin D listed on it? Yup, because it's supplemented. Many things we eat are supplemented with vitamins/minerals/etc. A vegan can easily drink plant milk that has B12 in it, just as someone living in the northern hemisphere can drink cow milk with vitamin D supplemented in it. Vegetarians can get B12 from eggs and dairy as well. Some people like to get into semantics of "if you can't get it naturally it's not natural", but I could easily say it's not "natural" for me to live in the northestern part of the US, which means "we aren't meant to live here". Yet it really doesn't matter and no one would take that seriously. So that's my view- super easy to supplement, not an issue. 0 -
Yes, that's why I said chimpanzees are mostly vegetarian, because they are not fully. They eat mostly greens and fruits, with some insects/small animals on the side. When you say "we're omnivores, face it", I'm a little confused- I never said we weren't designed to be able to digest meat. I said we're not obligate omnivores... meaning, we don't *have* to, we're just able to. Difference.Point taken with the koala bear--however, it is an entirely different type of herbivore--not a hoofed herbivore, lives in trees, etc. They are not representative of herbivores and neither are pandas.
On the contrary, chimpanzees are omnivores. The large incisors on most carnivores are not used for tearing. They are used for gripping. We're omnivores, face it. That's what "eat(ing) whatever is convenient" is all about. Human beings did not start developing the brains of modern humans until they began eating an omnivorous diet--so, yes, it was necessary for us to eat meat to become us. We also thrive when we eat meat and receive sufficient nutrition without supplements. Don't preach at me about plant proteins. They are not sufficient. If they were, then there would not be so many vegans on supplements.
Now, I'm a bit concerned why you would state your view on meat proteins, but then tell me I'd be "preaching" if I said anything about plant proteins. It sounds like you are prejudging anything I could say by calling it just preaching. I could tell you that you're inaccurate, and that you can 100% get all your protein needs met by plant proteins. But I doubt you will listen. Perhaps look up on any website that uses scientific basis/research studies and you will find I am correct. Or, the fact that I'm not having muscle atrophy issues despite being a vegetarian for 11 years?0 -
I love how arguments against veganism always resort to humor and making-fun. A sure sign that you have nothing of value to say?0
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Yes, that's why I said chimpanzees are mostly vegetarian, because they are not fully. They eat mostly greens and fruits, with some insects/small animals on the side. When you say "we're omnivores, face it", I'm a little confused- I never said we weren't designed to be able to digest meat. I said we're not obligate omnivores... meaning, we don't *have* to, we're just able to. Difference.Point taken with the koala bear--however, it is an entirely different type of herbivore--not a hoofed herbivore, lives in trees, etc. They are not representative of herbivores and neither are pandas.
On the contrary, chimpanzees are omnivores. The large incisors on most carnivores are not used for tearing. They are used for gripping. We're omnivores, face it. That's what "eat(ing) whatever is convenient" is all about. Human beings did not start developing the brains of modern humans until they began eating an omnivorous diet--so, yes, it was necessary for us to eat meat to become us. We also thrive when we eat meat and receive sufficient nutrition without supplements. Don't preach at me about plant proteins. They are not sufficient. If they were, then there would not be so many vegans on supplements.
Now, I'm a bit concerned why you would state your view on meat proteins, but then tell me I'd be "preaching" if I said anything about plant proteins. It sounds like you are prejudging anything I could say by calling it just preaching. I could tell you that you're inaccurate, and that you can 100% get all your protein needs met by plant proteins. But I doubt you will listen. Perhaps look up on any website that uses scientific basis/research studies and you will find I am correct. Or, the fact that I'm not having muscle atrophy issues despite being a vegetarian for 11 years?
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.
So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.
So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.
He was also meant to die from simple diseases and injuries. He wouldn't have eaten pineapples if he lived in Massachusetts. Luckily, we live in 2014 where we have access to cool new foods and gadgets and hippity-hop music.0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.
So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.
He was also meant to die from simple diseases and injuries. He wouldn't have eaten pineapples if he lived in Massachusetts. Luckily, we live in 2014 where we have access to cool new foods and gadgets and hippity-hop music.
I'm not disagreeing, simply stating a fact.0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.
So modern man CAN survive on a vegan diet, with suppliments/planning/access to certain foods. But historically, humans weren't made to survive off a vegan diet. If they were, there wouldn't be the B12 issue.
He was also meant to die from simple diseases and injuries. He wouldn't have eaten pineapples if he lived in Massachusetts. Luckily, we live in 2014 where we have access to cool new foods and gadgets and hippity-hop music.
I'm not disagreeing, simply stating a fact.
As am I. 0 -
Fine. Become a vegan, then go ahead and eat your plant proteins and don't supplement. [Let me know how that works for you. Virtually everyone else says that a vegan needs to supplement to get his/her B12, but obviously you know much better.
A chimpanzee is an omnivore. If it's "mostly a vegetarian," but it eats meat, it's an omnivore--chimpanzees have never heard of flexitarian eating.
I have nothing to say, really, to vegans, particularly "ethical" vegans who would like to end all animal agriculture. Nothing any of them can say will change my mind about my way of life and *no one* who has a disordered manner of thinking about the human/animal relationship should even think s/he has the right to take away *my* rights. If a vegan wants to go ahead and eat nothing but plant matter and processed food and then suffer from a B12 deficiency, that's fine. But it won't be because of anything I said or did; rather it would be because they fooled themselves into believing that their physiology was special.
Just as a general FYI, it's certainly more difficult to get B12 from "natural" sources as a vegan, but not impossible - like a lot of things, it just requires some planning.
Reliable Non-Pill Sources of B12:
- nutritional yeast (two rounded tablespoons of Red Star nutritional yeast supplies the daily requirement for an adult - and it tastes like parmesan cheese! It's a win/win.)
- fortified soy milks
Foods with Smaller Amounts of B12 (but they add up!):
- tempeh
- miso
- certain types of sea vegetables
So, easier to supplement with a simple B12 capsule, but certainly not impossible with the proper planning.
So, basically, if you spend even more time eating your special diet and obsessing about the food that goes in your mouth, you can avoid putting a capsule in your mouth--but you have to know what you're doing and be dedicated to it? Do vegans ever stop worrying about eating? Thanks, but no. You can stop trying to justify your diet to me now. I'm really not all that invested in your dietary choices and remain convinced that there are some things about it that saying would probably get me banned from the forums.0 -
Just saying, not all of us are like that.
At least you tried the "diet", that's all you could do.
I am it for ethical reasons, rather than health, and find it pretty easy being Vegan,
But what works for one usually won't work for the other.
So yea, atleast you tried.0 -
So, basically, if you spend even more time eating your special diet and obsessing about the food that goes in your mouth, you can avoid putting a capsule in your mouth--but you have to know what you're doing and be dedicated to it? Do vegans ever stop worrying about eating? Thanks, but no. You can stop trying to justify your diet to me now. I'm really not all that invested in your dietary choices and remain convinced that there are some things about it that saying would probably get me banned from the forums.
You say you're not invested, and yet you keep responding and knocking people who eat a vegan diet. Seems inconsistent.
I wouldn't say adding two tablespoons of nutritional yeast to my dinner is "obsessing". Even so, what's so wrong about being dedicated to something you care about? There are people who spend hours and hours in the gym, prepping food for the week, researching recipes - and they don't have to be vegans. It doesn't even have to be about food. People spend time and energy on things that are important to them.
Just because you don't like it or don't want to do it doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. You may view it as obsessing, but I find a lot of joy in staying healthy while eating a diet that's in line with my morals.0 -
So, basically, if you spend even more time eating your special diet and obsessing about the food that goes in your mouth, you can avoid putting a capsule in your mouth--but you have to know what you're doing and be dedicated to it? Do vegans ever stop worrying about eating? Thanks, but no. You can stop trying to justify your diet to me now. I'm really not all that invested in your dietary choices and remain convinced that there are some things about it that saying would probably get me banned from the forums.
You say you're not invested, and yet you keep responding and knocking people who eat a vegan diet. Seems inconsistent.
I wouldn't say adding two tablespoons of nutritional yeast to my dinner is "obsessing". Even so, what's so wrong about being dedicated to something you care about? There are people who spend hours and hours in the gym, prepping food for the week, researching recipes - and they don't have to be vegans. It doesn't even have to be about food. People spend time and energy on things that are important to them.
Just because you don't like it or don't want to do it doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. You may view it as obsessing, but I find a lot of joy in staying healthy while eating a diet that's in line with my morals.
This. You don't have to be vegan to be obsessed or even just plain old dedicated to planning.0 -
hate to break it to ya, but they're literally stating facts. animal proteins are linked to all sorts of diseases. and animal agriculture is cruel. if you feel bad then that's on you.0
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There are actually a lot of people that go vegan for health. http://funeralformyfat.tumblr.com lost 100+ lbs by going vegan and she does not give a **** about the ethical aspects of it. Animal proteins are bad for you. Plant based diet is good for you Watch the documentary Forks Over Knives and then tell me how unhealthy being vegan is. And before you say the word protein again, there is literally no such thing as a protein deficiency. In order to be lacking protein you would have to not be eating period and by that point you'll have a lot of bigger problems than protein. Maybe do some actual research before you say things that you literally just made up and thought sounded good.0
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For all the people saying the OPs friend needs to respect their choice. Eating meet is not a personal choice when it ends the life of another living being. You are imposing your desires on someone else. Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.0
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Amandalynne, your'e not giving vegans a good rap with your posts -in fact you are coming across as exactly the sort of aggressive zealot who people wish to avoid.
OP doesn't want to research vegan ism, she is happy with what she is doing.
I eat meat. I am perfectly happy for other people to be vegetarian or vegan or avoid other food for moral/ethical/ religious reasons- as long as they respect my choice to do otherwise, and I will respect theirs.
I have a work colleague who is Muslim ( not quite the same, I know) sometimes we order pizzas or subway for lunch, we just order some without ham, he eats the ones he is ok eating, we eat the rest, nobody has to comment or badger anyone else who makes different choices.0 -
Vegan diets move a lot of nutritious and enjoyable food onto an imagined naughty list. It's not a superior way to eat if you consider health, convenience, and the pleasure of eating juicy beef and chicken flesh. Veganism is simply an overly restrictive diet. However, I could see adopting a vegan diet on ethical grounds, especially considering the cruel way most of our tasty, nutritious animal products are produced.0
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For all the people saying the OPs friend needs to respect their choice. Eating meet is not a personal choice when it ends the life of another living being. You are imposing your desires on someone else. Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.
Your thinking is seriously damaged if you actually equate a woman, man or child being raped to an omnivore pursuing eating patterns that have developed over millions of years. You actually made me feel physically ill that someone is capable of this sort of disordered thinking.0 -
For all the people saying the OPs friend needs to respect their choice. Eating meet is not a personal choice when it ends the life of another living being. You are imposing your desires on someone else. Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.
Your thinking is seriously damaged if you actually equate a woman, man or child being raped to an omnivore pursuing eating patterns that have developed over millions of years. You actually made me feel physically ill that someone is capable of this sort of disordered thinking.0 -
Exactly this, Im vegan and I don't push on others like suggested. :grumble:This isn't to do with them being vegan it's about being stubborn and disrespectful.
If being polite isn't working then it's time to evaluate who you have in your life. If it's family you can't get away from then a firm "leave me alone!" may suffice.
They're not respecting your choices, so don't accept their actions and very strongly tell them to stop.0 -
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Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.
No, not ok. This statement does nothing to support your arguments.
You expect everyone else to respect your superior morals and eating habits, but you don't have to behave respectfully toward others, simply BECAUSE you think your views are superior.
You are exactly like a religious zealot shoving your belief system down other people's throats. Is it ok when someone does that to you? No? Ok.0 -
It has been my experience that vegans are all-or-nothing people. I know their intentions are good, especially if they've seen a big change in the way they feel after going vegan. What I have done with a couple of vegan friends is just sit down and talk to them about it. I let them know that I'm thrilled that they've found something that works for them, but everybody is different. I told them that I enjoy meat and dairy and that I would like for them to respect my choices in the same way I accept theirs. If they're really you're friends, they will understand and back off.0
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hate to break it to ya, but they're literally stating facts. animal proteins are linked to all sorts of diseases. and animal agriculture is cruel. if you feel bad then that's on you.There are actually a lot of people that go vegan for health. http://funeralformyfat.tumblr.com lost 100+ lbs by going vegan and she does not give a **** about the ethical aspects of it. Animal proteins are bad for you. Plant based diet is good for you Watch the documentary Forks Over Knives and then tell me how unhealthy being vegan is. And before you say the word protein again, there is literally no such thing as a protein deficiency. In order to be lacking protein you would have to not be eating period and by that point you'll have a lot of bigger problems than protein. Maybe do some actual research before you say things that you literally just made up and thought sounded good.For all the people saying the OPs friend needs to respect their choice. Eating meet is not a personal choice when it ends the life of another living being. You are imposing your desires on someone else. Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.
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Vegan diets move a lot of nutritious and enjoyable food onto an imagined naughty list. It's not a superior way to eat if you consider health, convenience, and the pleasure of eating juicy beef and chicken flesh. Veganism is simply an overly restrictive diet. However, I could see adopting a vegan diet on ethical grounds, especially considering the cruel way most of our tasty, nutritious animal products are produced.
When was the last time you were actually on a farm to see how animals were treated, instead of merely reading and watching the heavily edited anti-animal agriculture propaganda put out by animal liberationists?Would you tell someone to respect a rapist's decision? No? Ok.
No, not ok. This statement does nothing to support your arguments.
You expect everyone else to respect your superior morals and eating habits, but you don't have to behave respectfully toward others, simply BECAUSE you think your views are superior.
You are exactly like a religious zealot shoving your belief system down other people's throats. Is it ok when someone does that to you? No? Ok.
I breed dogs for conformation shows and work (ratting). I also work on a goat farm. That kind of seriously damaged "ethical" vegan is the kind I typically encounter. Thus, my views on veganism. You'd be surprised how many of *that* type are out there.0
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