MFP has changed
Replies
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No, no one is missing the point. But the point I've made several times already is that not everyone is able to take control for themselves. They rely on outsiders to help and to support them. He wasn't being stupid or uncooperative. He just needed support and education. No one would be on this site if everyone were perfect and had always had control over their diets and their weight.
The thing is that they are able to. If they choose to is a completely different issue.
Yes. Just like every depressed person should just be able to suck it up and get over what is bothering them.
Get real.
Sometimes people can't just decide to do better on their own. Would it kill people to try to offer them some assistance?
Nobody making a post on an internet forum can change another person. That person has to take action and make that change. Tips, advice, guidance, prodding, or all out directing online are useless until the person on the other end takes action. For the depressed person, nothing changes until they take action. For the overeater, nothing changes until they take action. For the inactive, nothing changes until they take action. For the person with an ED, nothing changes until they take action.
Quite often assistance requires telling a person what they don't want to hear in a way that doesn't fit their world view. Every day there are new threads here started by people deluding themselves into a world where their actions are safe, healthy, and effective in the long term when the fact is they are risking their health, frequently with foolish choices. Some people play word games and dance around issues, others make direct statements that address the behaviors and choices.
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The Law school thread I think is... a terrible example of meanness on this site. At least, up to the OP's second post to the thread where he used humor to categorize all the responses and thank everyone alike. I don't know what happened to the thread after that. He was asked some excellent questions. If you're gonna blame law school for weight gain, how about working 100 hours per week as a first year? How will you be successful then? Owning up to our actions has often been the first step in many of our weight loss journeys. What is wrong with helping the OP get there? Weight loss isn't easy? Of course it's hard!! And sometimes that means having to be butt sore a little bit when you look at your own actions in the mirror and evaluate how you got here. How can you do things differently and avoid the same mistakes in the future.
I have someone on my friend list, I know exactly what she's doing wrong and the changes she can make to lose weight. However I don't want to jeopardize a long term relationship we have and therefore have not said anything. Maybe she'll figure it out on her own in 3 or 10 years. Some of you complained about folks that go into hCG, I want to lose 50 lbs of weight in two months threads, etc and post bluntly. Know what I do when I see most of those? Roll my eyes and move onto the next thread. Think HARD about who the mean posters really are. And yes those of you with few [advice] post counts who know how it's done but have not shown it by your own compassionate helpful posts, you fall in the same bucket, too.
Agree with some of the posters about kid gloves. You're really going to say we should be somebody's therapy on this site?? I mean come on, it's free but you get what you pay for, right? :bigsmile:
Finally, I don't think [many of] the veterans are tired of the same posts over and over again. In fact, it seems they go in there repeatedly to answer questions
I think mainly everybody needs to judge the sole person, and not the whole group. Do not make broad assumptions based on stereotypes. As a newbie, I have seen newbies act.... "less than smart." When the OP started this thread, we cannot assume she is one of these newbies unless you go through each and every post of hers. I for one know I am a newbie, but will accept reasonable advice. I'm not going to debate someone who has had weight loss success and has been here long enough.
On the flip side, as a newbie, I will not judge veteran mfpers by one single "mean" person. As stated, I have an active thread where I am currently getting advice from veteran mfpers. All the awards go to you! Now I have also been talked down to by a veteran mfper, but I will not categorize the entire group this way. That is wrong.
Also I think people missed the part when I said "lead with a heavy hand." Trust me, there are no kid gloves. I have worked with 5 yr olds, but currently work with teenagers in high school. Trust me, even at 15, they are eloquently spoken like a grown adult. I definitely do not handle them with kid gloves. Actually I don't even handle 5 yr olds with kid gloves. To clarify, I don't think it's wrong to say "You ate an entire pizza in one sitting. That isn't good. You have to try and restrict yourself, because if you continue like this you will not lose weight. Try eating healthier foods with less sodium," That isn't rude, although that's up to interpretation. But if you say, "Wow, that was STOOPID!," I think that is considered mean. You didn't even provide any help in your post.
I understand tough love, but you can't be tough, and only tough. You need to have some wisdom to back that ish up. Otherwise, leave your comments at the door.
Boy am I glad to see you on here and know that you will be helping out in the future with the newbies. There are potentially dangerous ones that give very bad advice as gospel (there was one on here yesterday about vegans---you don't need to worry about your protien, can eat 3000cal and will be skinny etc., etc.). Now, I'd like to see you defuse a person like that---nicely---everyday. As I said we need you, and I will be waiting to read your future posts. Welcome.
If I can speak on the subject, I will gladly give advice. I honestly don't know squat about vegans etc., so I would not comment on a post like that. I'm pretty sure most newbs can't give advice for this very reason. I'm trying to lose weight and have not yet been successful, so really I can only comment on my journey so far, can't give no solid advice with facts.
So again, thanks to the veterans that have been there and can offer advice.
I understand that it must be frustrating seeing bad info. But mfp clearly states
"Posts by members, moderators and admins should not be considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy."
So if I believe said vegan, or even a seasoned educated mfper, that is my choice. I think debate is good, it weeds out bad info. But honestly, if your content is good, but your delivery sucks, I'll probably have less respect for you. The medium is the message (in some cases.)
Well see the vegans post was bad info and wrong. He also got very rude with people, and the others that usually would get called mean were doing what they do, told the right info, posted links and were very matter of fact to the point. So it's dangerous for someone to listen to the vegan telling people they don't need protein. I'm vegetarian and I lift heavy things, I need protein!!!
And you said you haven't been successful with weight loss yet, may I ask what you are doing? Are you restricting too much? On the 1200 calorie only diet? How much do you have to lose? How much are you trying to lose a week?
Here are the links I always post in newbie threads. Maybe they will help you.
Read these:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1235566-so-you-re-new-here?hl=so+you're+new+here
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/974888-in-place-of-a-road-map-2k13
TL:DR the link right above this one then ->http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/975025-in-place-of-a-road-map-short-n-sweet
Excuses??? http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/06/02/the-no-excuses-play-like-a-champion-challenge/
If you have 75+ lbs to lose 2 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 40-75 lbs to lose 1.5 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 25-40 lbs to lose 1 lbs/week is ideal
If you have 15 -25 lbs to lose 0.5 to 1.0 lbs/week is ideal
If you have less than 15 lbs to lose 0.5 lbs/week is ideal
Want to lift heavy things?
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
Stronglifts Summary
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary
Stronglifts Womens Group
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
Maybe that was my fault. I guess I am losing. My mistake is thinking that weight would be falling off of me because I have so much to lose. But I guess 7 pounds in less than a month isn't bad. And that's 7 pounds with me not eating at my best, so that's my fault.
But thank you kindly for the links, I will look through all of them!0 -
I agree with the OP. You do need thick skin around here sometimes.
An ignore feature would be nice. Anyone who's on your ignore list wont have the posts visible to ther person who ignored them.
There are ways around the nastiness, though, for the most part. For starters, make friends who are kind and supportive then ignore most of the rest of the community.
There is an ignore feature. By anyone's username there's a square with a triangle in it. Click on that - you can send them a PM, go to their profile or ignore user.0 -
I agree with the OP. You do need thick skin around here sometimes.
An ignore feature would be nice. Anyone who's on your ignore list wont have the posts visible to ther person who ignored them.
There are ways around the nastiness, though, for the most part. For starters, make friends who are kind and supportive then ignore most of the rest of the community.
There is an ignore feature. By anyone's username there's a square with a triangle in it. Click on that - you can send them a PM, go to their profile or ignore user.
Think it was said in sarcasm.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.0 -
My take on the infamous Law School thread:
It got rough in there. I thought the OP was joking in his OP but the first response answered him seriously (but truthfully) and then 95% of the thread after that was posters going back and forth at each other about blame and responsibility. It was more infighting than outright putting the OP down IMO. Still wouldn't have been any fun to be the OP tho.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there are hundreds upon hundreds of posts on this site every single day where that doesn't happen. I guess I just don't understand this mindset of, "Well, that one time, something happened and I didn't like it, SO THIS WHOLE ENTIRE SITE IS BROKEN." Law School thread is what, two weeks old? How many years have been created in the meantime? How many people helped figure out a way to achieve their goals?
If you're going to be read 800 threads and then be soooooo upset about the 1 thread that you didn't like, you're going to have a bad time.
What's funny, is the guy who was all upset about that thread - also went to create a "meanies" thread...
The thing I thought was interesting was when he said he did it to get more people on his friends list. We hardly ever see him on here giving advice, so I'm curious as to why he wants more "nice" or "butthurt" people on his list.
I can't help it--I'm curious.
Maybe because being active in the forums and being active on one's own FL are two completely separate things.0 -
Maybe that was my fault. I guess I am losing. My mistake is thinking that weight would be falling off of me because I have so much to lose. But I guess 7 pounds in less than a month isn't bad. And that's 7 pounds with me not eating at my best, so that's my fault.
But thank you kindly for the links, I will look through all of them!
FIFY - I changed your paragraph a bit. Read this and let me know now how you feel about your weight loss.
I am losing. I understand weight loss isn't linear, some weeks I'll lose 2 lbs, some 1, and some none. That's okay. I'll stick with it because I am losing and that's awesome. Losing 7 pounds in less than a month is awesome progress. And that's 7 pounds with me not eating at my best, so that's also pretty awesome.
Losing any amount is better than not losing. Maintaining should also be celebrated because you are not gaining any weight.
Remember weight loss (that's lasting and for your life) is about moderation not deprivation. You have to be able to live your life while losing weight. So that's why so many say it's about lifestyle changes. I won't say you not eating your best is a mistake, I'd say maybe it was a little detour. I took a 4 month detour that I was very mad at myself about (I had lost 50 lbs...I gained 21 back in those 4 months), I was down on myself until I said enough, that's not getting me anywhere. I got back on the wagon, but doing it differently and stronger than before.
I started lifting heavy things (if you haven't started strength training, please look into it. You want to try to save some lean muscle while losing weight). I started 7 weeks ago, I've lost inches everywhere. 2" in my leg!
Read those links, see what makes sense. If you have any questions let me know. I'll do my best to try to help.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
^this...and high level stuff too.
I'm not even mad. That's amazing.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
I am now convinced I still don't care what you think.
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Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
^this...and high level stuff too.
I'm not even mad. That's amazing.
It's a legitimate observation--we are known by the company we keep and by the people we admire. How is that trolling?0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.
They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.
I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.
And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.
I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.
If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.0 -
It just bad manners.
If you can't be nice or helpful, don't write anything.
But honestly... some people are just so dumb.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
I am now convinced I still don't care what you think.
Thankfully my sense of self isn't impacted by how people treat me on the internets, so I think I'll be okay.
Good thing too or else I'd actually consider being nicer when people accuse me of being mean0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
^this...and high level stuff too.
I'm not even mad. That's amazing.
Troof. I almost feel like I could learn a thing or two in next level trolling here.0 -
Yet you took the time to write a reply..........sounds like you care
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
I am now convinced I still don't care what you think.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I am now convinced you're trolling in the deep
^this...and high level stuff too.
I'm not even mad. That's amazing.
It's a legitimate observation--we are known by the company we keep and by the people we admire. How is that trolling?
Do you know if I admire them? No. You don't know anything about me. I might have just found a gif of 2 guys drinking tea or coffee saying Bravo! Well Done! So you know nothing about me. Do I find them funny, yes, they are comedians who have TV shows on a...wait for it...wait for it...COMEDY network. That usually mean that things will be funny. I like to laugh. Laughing is better than always being so upset/offended at every time I feel slighted in life. Life is to short to always focus on the negative, as many people love to do. I've done this in the past and am working hard on changing that. Some thrive off negative and want to only focus on that, and perpetuate it. That's life.
I admire people like Major D!ck Winters, Wild Bill Guarnere, Babe Heffron, my grandfather, father and brother. I admire my niece. She's 4.5 - would that then make me immature and a child since I admire a child?0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
Well, this certainly sheds light on the problem. :laugh:0 -
Well said.All this talk about how "supportive" we all should be just begs for clarification:
One person's idea of support may be "Everybody slips up once in a while. Don't beat yourself up. Just log the whole pizza and call it a day".
Another person's idea of support "Do you have any idea how much sodium is in that pizza? When you wake up tomorrow and the scale says you have gained 5 pounds--it's not because you gained 5 pounds of fat--it's water retention. So log that pizza, drink some more water, learn from it and move on".
Don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather have the 2nd person giving me advice personally.
Kid gloves have been mentioned by others in this thread and I guess "no sugarcoating" could be used to describe the second option, too. That's how I prefer it and that's how most of the contents is delivered in this forum.
If you want to hear that longer response in an accusatory tone, of course it's possible, but hey you know what? You can also picture the poster delivering it with a huge smile and a flower in their hand. Your choice. Most, who whine in these threads, don't seem to go for the smile version, though.0 -
Yet you pick the one yammering post of the day to cough up your confession in...It's why I don't post anymore. When I was really motivated, I was getting tons of praise. A lot happened in my life in 2012, 2013 was a transition year, and I'm finally starting to get my head turned around. I gained 10lbs, but then I've maintained. I don't talk about my struggles because when I did, I got blasted.
I don't even read the forum (that much) anymore. A place that used to be great for motivation, inspiration and tips is now a place for haters and for some who only want to make others feel bad.
I think there are people who use this who have been through enough of that.
Are you scared of posting in a factual way, fessing up to your bad choices, perhaps with the first steps moving in a healthier direction, and asking for more help, whilst expecting an array of different responses? People will reply however they please, but I'm fairly certain at least a few of the posts might contain something useful for you. Here's a tip: close your eyes if the comments contain something you don't feel like using, it's really just that easy.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.
They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.
I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.
And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.
I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.
If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.
I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.
I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.
However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.
Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.0 -
I take it you realise you not only criticized the mods here, but basically also told them you'd do their job better. Nice.Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.
They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.
I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.
And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.
I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.
If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.
I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.
I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.
However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.
Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.
How does your history of dealing with depression and/or current path of study enable you to make a clinical diagnosis based on a simple internet forum post? The same applies to determining a person's locus.
The simple fact is that a person will not see different outcomes until THEY change things in their life. If that change comes through counseling, medication, or will power differs from person to person ... but all require the individual to make the change.
Your judgmental attitude is showing more in each post. It's what you would tolerate or like to see, not what the TOS state ... post what you want to see in phrasing and ways you approve of or face the boot ... got it. Luckily for the rest of us, you're not in charge of anything more than we are.
Now back to more of your spurious linkages between gifs and admiration.0 -
Is this still going on? It seems like many, many pages of spinning wheels and not getting anywhere.
There are a statistical minority of people on here who are sarcastic pricks. There's a majority who are helpful and supportive. And there's some who start off as the second and become the first because of hardheaded posters who ask for help and then refuse to accept any. Not saying that's right, by any means, but it happens.
Unless you're going to increase monitoring on the forum for "tone" and such, then it's going to continue exactly the same way.0 -
Seems appropriate that you'd choose a gif of two of the most hateful people on television.
I think people are not understanding "external locus of control." Maybe you need to look it up. Beating up such a person or a person with chronic depression (situational depression can be different) just isn't the way to go. And certainly celebrating the fact s/he has deactivated an account and stating "our work is done here" is just heinous in my opinion. It was the joy at driving a person away that really shocked me, as if it were that person's mission to make a person so miserable that s/he gave up in despair. Admit what you will, but to me that fits the definition of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated here.
They are most definitely NOT the most hateful people on television.
I deal with depression EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. No one can help me with that but myself. I had to want to get help in order to change. Just like with weight loss. The person has to want the change. My roommate is a perfect example, I love her, it kills me to see her so depressed every day. I did help to get her to go to counseling and I know it'll take time, but it's still hard to see her suffer every single day. I talk to her about it, about maybe she should get out of the house, go for a walk, not sleep so much. She doesn't want to. She's not there yet. She's not ready to make the change. Someone has to want help in order to be willing to receive it.
And where in ANY of my posts did I bring up anything about the people deactivating, saying that it was a good thing or even bring up that situation? I didn't. So not sure why you're bringing that up when I posted a gif in response to someone else posting something and you decided you should delete all of what was said and just come at me. I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however, that word gets tossed around like it means nothing. It's going to start turning into the boy who cried wolf because it's used so much that soon, real bullying will be hard to identify because of that.
I don't know of the thread you speak of. If I see someone has posted they are depressed, I always advise them to seek counseling. I will speak of my own experience about depression and weight loss. No one but them can make the changes.
If someone is depressed they have to want help, they have to want to change. Nothing anyone says on a message board can make that happen. They have to want to. I know, because that was me. Every. Single. Day. I lost weight before, but never got my depression under control. I gained it back. I lost weight in the last 2 years, and got help for my depression because I was finally ready for it and I wanted to change.
I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.
I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.
However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.
Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.
I would liken the point you're making to stating that MFP advice is bad because it would be largely inappropriate for someone with an eating disorder. There is indeed an assumption that most or all people reading the forum are somewhat mentally and emotionally balanced. It seems a stretch to have to assume they may not be. Perhaps something should be written in the guidelines taking one stance or not0 -
I really love the MFP community
The majority of posters in this thread share the same goal...you are volunteering to help people who want to become fit. I'm thankful for all of you 
It's only the approaches that differ. Some of you are nurturers, low on criticism and high on praise. Some of you are boot camp style in your face, cold hard truth types. Personally, I like both styles. When I'm down and I get positive comments/forum posts, sometimes it helps. When I decide I want to try fasting 4 days out of 7 and only eat herbalife the other 3 days and exercise burn 2,600 cal per day and create a -1700 cal net...having friends that let me know that's crazy...also helps.
Cheers to MFPers :drinker:0 -
So, after 15 pages of the same arguments over and over, has anything changed? No. In a few days, another thread with similar intent, will be posted and it will all start again. Because we can only change ourselves.
0 -
And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.
You mean gifs like a pig slamming her head repeatedly on a table laden with pastries?
This little helpful ditty was the eighth reply left on the Rasperry ketone!! thread started by a mother from the UK who was a newer poster with a bunch of kids who felt confused and unattractive.
Of course some "helpful" links and quotes from New Age speaker Wayne Dyer were also left. After the *pig* GIF. Real nice. Push her down in front of everybody, skin her knee, then offer her a hand up and a Band Aid. Thanks a lot MFP!
For what it's worth, you had the following advice in that same thread:I don't know what they are but they sound rather tasty.
*shrug*0 -
I never said they were the two most hateful people. Neither did I say that you expressed joy at the people deactivating their accounts. That was said in response to the lawyer thread, which was under discussion when this thread was about the real topic and not just a place to justify bad behavior. Please check your outrage at the door, since it's based on an inaccurate statement and internalizing what's been said here.
I had chronic depression for years, so I know whereof I speak. I couldn't afford treatment, since the free clinic here doesn't handle that and no one local handles charging on a sliding scale. That's one of the reasons I want to finish my counseling psych degree (with a Christian focus) and help an underserved community. There are too many people being told they need to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get over it" when they don't have the resources to do it. It is possibly true that nothing said on a forum can make a person seek help, but cruelty from people on a forum has, in the past, been proven to drive people to kill themselves. What people say to others can and does make a difference in their lives.
However, depression is *very* different from locus of control, although loc can be a part of depression and changing a person's loc can help in the treatment of depression. AGAIN, it it not helpful to berate a person with an external locus of control. They honestly don't see how they can make their own changes--the world is conspiring against them and they are adrift at sea. It's not mental illness--it's just a defeatist way of perceiving reality, for lack of a better term. It is impossible to make a person with an eloc better by telling them how stupid they are and that only they are responsible for their lives. That just reinforces the idea that the world is against them. Keep in mind I have no love for the touchy-feely humanistic therapies--I'm primarily a believer in cognitive-behavioral therapy, which does use bluntness and a direct approach. HOWEVER, there is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior and many times when people say they are being blunt here they are just bordering on being cruel. The point someone made about chickens and corn is a good one, especially in the case of someone who can't see how s/he can affect the things controlling his or her own life.
Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.
Are you currently providing direct service to people dealing with mental health issues?0 -
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the only thing this thread has been useful for is deciding which people to add to my block list.
I take it you realise you not only criticized the mods here, but basically also told them you'd do their job better. Nice.Anyway, to wrap it up, back when I was moderating forums a lot of the people here would have gotten warnings and then gotten the boot. There's no need to have nasty people in the community, since all they ultimately do is tear it apart. And no, gifs aren't cute, funny, or leaventing to the person who ted the thread being derailed, especially if they're chosen to humiliate that person. Most of the time they're just, yes, mean.
Never said that, either. I like how you like to put words in people's mouths. I moderated forums for a game company and we were pretty strict about it.0
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