Why Aspartame Isn't Scary
Replies
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Totally cribbing this from an overview of a study comparing methanol metabolism in mice vs. primates (linked below) that I have not read in depth. But, I thought it may help clear up the questions on methanol buildup:
"The mouse model for human developmental toxicity of methanol is contentious because of the differences in formate oxidation. However, human exposures to environmental methanol are unlikely to produce blood levels saturating this pathway, so formate buildup would be unlikely; indeed, monkeys exposed to 2000 ppm showed no formate accumulation. Thus, methanol rather than formate may be the proximate toxicant in humans, and in the mouse higher exposures of methanol can be studied without formate accumulation. Oxidation of methanol by catalase in mice vs. ADH in humans may also be important."
https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=153763&CFID=81868876&CFTOKEN=70698412
There is often differences between mice and rats in terms of small molecule metabolism as well and the study in question was done in rats. I know mice have considerably different cyp P450s so their metabolic profile for small molecules can be quite different than rats or humans. Although cyp P450s I don't think are involved in methanol metabolism.
Methanol metabolism is very similar for mice and rats as far as using catalase vs. ADH in humans. Obviously, there can always be differences in the kinetics given the enzymes are likely orthologous and not identical in amino acid sequence.
Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Totally cribbing this from an overview of a study comparing methanol metabolism in mice vs. primates (linked below) that I have not read in depth. But, I thought it may help clear up the questions on methanol buildup:
"The mouse model for human developmental toxicity of methanol is contentious because of the differences in formate oxidation. However, human exposures to environmental methanol are unlikely to produce blood levels saturating this pathway, so formate buildup would be unlikely; indeed, monkeys exposed to 2000 ppm showed no formate accumulation. Thus, methanol rather than formate may be the proximate toxicant in humans, and in the mouse higher exposures of methanol can be studied without formate accumulation. Oxidation of methanol by catalase in mice vs. ADH in humans may also be important."
https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=153763&CFID=81868876&CFTOKEN=70698412
There is often differences between mice and rats in terms of small molecule metabolism as well and the study in question was done in rats. I know mice have considerably different cyp P450s so their metabolic profile for small molecules can be quite different than rats or humans. Although cyp P450s I don't think are involved in methanol metabolism.
Methanol metabolism is very similar for mice and rats as far as using catalase vs. ADH in humans. Obviously, there can always be differences in the kinetics given the enzymes are likely orthologous and not identical in amino acid sequence.
Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)
Come on!!! Why not?3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)
Geez. And here I thought I had found my new hero....
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I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject
I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun! 3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.3 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!2 -
Did someone say mouse DNA?7
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nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese 1 -
queenliz99 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!
First you must prove you're not a mouse!singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese
I love that you are both willing to take one for the (science) team 2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!
First you must prove you're not a mouse!singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood sounds like fun!
So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese
I love that you are both willing to take one for the (science) team
NP always willing to do my part for furthering scientific knowledge1 -
stevencloser wrote: »Did someone say mouse DNA?
Did someone say drunk tonight?2 -
stevencloser wrote: »Did someone say mouse DNA?
Did someone say drunk tonight?
At least someone has his priorities straight! :laugh:0 -
I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure ethanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure methanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.
Some cures are better than others.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure methanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.
Some cures are better than others.
Oops ethanol not methanol! The recovery time from the treatment was interesting. The "poor" thing was super intoxicated0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown 3 -
grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
That study deserves funding!
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nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm
Well, I suppose that sounds like a reasonable excuse. Can I still get drunk?2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm
Well, I suppose that sounds like a reasonable excuse. Can I still get drunk?
I give you my blessing 1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm
Well, I suppose that sounds like a reasonable excuse. Can I still get drunk?
I give you my blessing
I hope whatever you are taking the Flagyl for is taken care of quickly. 0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm
Well, I suppose that sounds like a reasonable excuse. Can I still get drunk?
I give you my blessing I hope whatever you are taking the Flagyl for is taken care of quickly.
Thanks I'm immunosuppressed (on azathioprine and infliximab) so I get infections often. Flagyl is an add on because I am at high risk of getting c diff so just to be careful. 0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »grmckenzie wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure.
So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....
Time for more Crown
This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
Sorry guys, I just started taking flagyl today and I don't want to end up in the er so no more experiments for me atm
Well, I suppose that sounds like a reasonable excuse. Can I still get drunk?
I give you my blessing I hope whatever you are taking the Flagyl for is taken care of quickly.
Thanks I'm immunosuppressed (on azathioprine and infliximab) so I get infections often. Flagyl is an add on because I am at high risk of getting c diff so just to be careful.
No, don't get c-diff.
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Are you all still drunk from Thanksgiving celebrations?
It was so boring here yesterday, I'm glad everyone's back! 0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Are you all still drunk from Thanksgiving celebrations? It was so boring here yesterday, I'm glad everyone's back!
No, I had to go back to work this week. Funny how much that cuts into MFP time.
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I stopped all aspertame products and my swelling has gone away..My stomach issues have healed..Blood levels returned to normal..While this may look like it proves it to be safe I would still use in moderation....You just never know for sure..Like cigarettes use to be safe..YEH Quite the opposite..For me getting off the fake sweetners and switching to organic honey and agave nectar has been an over all health improvment for me..And my cancer is in remission......2
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I stopped all aspertame products and my swelling has gone away..My stomach issues have healed..Blood levels returned to normal..While this may look like it proves it to be safe I would still use in moderation....You just never know for sure..Like cigarettes use to be safe..YEH Quite the opposite..For me getting off the fake sweetners and switching to organic honey and agave nectar has been an over all health improvment for me..And my cancer is in remission......
Is it possible that you had issues with swelling, your stomach and aberrant blood levels because you had cancer? I mean what makes you think your health issues weren't just related to the cancer and were symptoms of the developing cancer? What made you think it was due to something like a sweetner?
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