Why Aspartame Isn't Scary
Replies
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I was wondering!!!singingflutelady wrote: »OMG I meant diet sodas are not UNhealthy. Major typo!
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JimKeegan555 wrote: »What about other effects of Aspartame? Are there any proven studies WRT metabolism or insulin response etc?
There are over 30 million diabetics in America. For those testing daily, they would know immediately if diet sodas incite an insulin response. They don’t.
How do we know? If an insulin dependent diabetic miscounts his carbs, he goes in to a coma. If artificial sweeteners incited an insulin response we’d have people fainting all over the place, both diabetic and non diabetic.
We don’t need rat studies. People are living this daily.9 -
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GaleHawkins wrote: »JimKeegan555 wrote: »Here's my opinion:
You can either drink diet sodas and risk some illness that isn't proven, or you can drink sugary drinks and get obesity related illnesses that are proven.
Choose wisely.
I would rather maybe die of cancer than definitely die of obesity.
There is a third no cost healthy option.
I presume you mean water.
Thing is, it isn't actually pick one only.
People can drink all 3, or neither, or whatever.
I drink plenty of water almost every single day.
And equivalent of 2 or 3 cans per week of diet soda
And on rare occasion a regular soda
And sometimes milk, cider, wine, juice
You know, we can have variety - not pick one option only.
5 -
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paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »JimKeegan555 wrote: »Here's my opinion:
You can either drink diet sodas and risk some illness that isn't proven, or you can drink sugary drinks and get obesity related illnesses that are proven.
Choose wisely.
I would rather maybe die of cancer than definitely die of obesity.
There is a third no cost healthy option.
I presume you mean water.
Thing is, it isn't actually pick one only.
People can drink all 3, or neither, or whatever.
I drink plenty of water almost every single day.
And equivalent of 2 or 3 cans per week of diet soda
And on rare occasion a regular soda
And sometimes milk, cider, wine, juice
You know, we can have variety - not pick one option only.
Yes variety is an option we have thanks to free will. Clean water however is not debated by health care professionals as be healthy or not in moderation.
health-headlines.org/drop-the-diet-sodacan-and-live-longer/12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »JimKeegan555 wrote: »Here's my opinion:
You can either drink diet sodas and risk some illness that isn't proven, or you can drink sugary drinks and get obesity related illnesses that are proven.
Choose wisely.
I would rather maybe die of cancer than definitely die of obesity.
There is a third no cost healthy option.
I presume you mean water.
Thing is, it isn't actually pick one only.
People can drink all 3, or neither, or whatever.
I drink plenty of water almost every single day.
And equivalent of 2 or 3 cans per week of diet soda
And on rare occasion a regular soda
And sometimes milk, cider, wine, juice
You know, we can have variety - not pick one option only.
Yes variety is an option we have thanks to free will. Clean water however is not debated by health care professionals as be healthy or not in moderation.
health-headlines.org/drop-the-diet-sodacan-and-live-longer/
"There are some limitations to the study, in that they followed women over time, asking about habits that had long been in place, they couldn’t prove that they were actually the cause of the heart problems.
The findings still have to be scrutinized by outside experts and published in a medial journal before they can be considered legitimate."
Media reporting on actual science is weak enough.
Media reports on unpublished studies are beyond worthless.11 -
johnslater461 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »JimKeegan555 wrote: »Here's my opinion:
You can either drink diet sodas and risk some illness that isn't proven, or you can drink sugary drinks and get obesity related illnesses that are proven.
Choose wisely.
I would rather maybe die of cancer than definitely die of obesity.
There is a third no cost healthy option.
I presume you mean water.
Thing is, it isn't actually pick one only.
People can drink all 3, or neither, or whatever.
I drink plenty of water almost every single day.
And equivalent of 2 or 3 cans per week of diet soda
And on rare occasion a regular soda
And sometimes milk, cider, wine, juice
You know, we can have variety - not pick one option only.
Yes variety is an option we have thanks to free will. Clean water however is not debated by health care professionals as be healthy or not in moderation.
health-headlines.org/drop-the-diet-sodacan-and-live-longer/
"There are some limitations to the study, in that they followed women over time, asking about habits that had long been in place, they couldn’t prove that they were actually the cause of the heart problems.
The findings still have to be scrutinized by outside experts and published in a medial journal before they can be considered legitimate."
Media reporting on actual science is weak enough.
Media reports on unpublished studies are beyond worthless.
In other words, more loose correlation and no causation.
*Yawn*2 -
Yes variety is an option we have thanks to free will. Clean water however is not debated by health care professionals as be healthy or not in moderation.
Not just thanks to free will - thanks to fact that diets do not have to consist of one thing only (ie only drink water) to be healthy3 -
Possibly true. It just tastes horrific to me, so I will leave it out of any food plan I will ever consider following.1
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Well, of course.
Just like I leave watermelon out of any food plan I follow, it just tastes like wet straw to me.
But I don't claim it is unhealthy or everyone else should avoid it ( which I know you weren't either)3 -
Aspartmane does have bad affects but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's dangerous. Everything is fine in moderation.
I previously tried going aspartame free and I found a slight Inprovment in a few health issues of mine. I also find if I have a lot of aspartame my health gets temporarily worst.
I struggle without Aspartmane in my diet and it means I don't have things I like because I won't have sugar due to the high cal content so I do still have it but in moderation.
Instead of 3 pepsi max a day I'll have 3 a week etc.
Obviously everyone is different just because it affects one person it doesn't mean it will affect another.13 -
What bad affects?4
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proudmymmysj wrote: »Aspartmane does have bad affects but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's dangerous. Everything is fine in moderation.
I previously tried going aspartame free and I found a slight Inprovment in a few health issues of mine. I also find if I have a lot of aspartame my health gets temporarily worst.
I struggle without Aspartmane in my diet and it means I don't have things I like because I won't have sugar due to the high cal content so I do still have it but in moderation.
Instead of 3 pepsi max a day I'll have 3 a week etc.
Obviously everyone is different just because it affects one person it doesn't mean it will affect another.
Is there a reason you think it is causal and not correlative?5 -
For me, aspartamane isn't scary... it just has a taste that lingers... and lingers... and lingers. I am twice as thirsty after consuming an aspartmane drink as I was before. Might as well go to the water instead, and spare myself the gustatory disgust.6
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I like to have a packet (or less) in a 12 oz iced or hot tea. That's only 37mg of aspartame-- a very small amount.
The main criticism of aspartame is that it is broken down into some scary chemicals, including methanol and formaldehyde. But the levels are incredibly low, similar to what you get from many natural sources.
But the advantage (for me) is that it helps me to eat less sugar, which seems worth it. Each can make their own choice concerning aspartame, I hope.2 -
yep, that's the same for me. I use splenda in my coffee of a morning because I can't stand coffee black, but realized that using creamer and sugar, I was consuming an uncomfortably large amount of calories which cut into my allotment of healthy, sustaining foods. So I switched to using either 1/2 cup of lowfat milk or unsweetened almond milk and 3 packets of splenda with fiber, along with 3 packets of either regular splenda or 1 packet of truvia or something like that. This way, I'm reducing the calorie intake way, way down but still getting the sweetness satisfaction - and the splenda with fiber is helping with my fiber intake! lol
When it comes to aspartame, it really depends on the product as to whether or not I can stand it. I can drink diet Dr. Pepper or diet Pepsi and not have any issues, but there is something in classic diet Coke that doesn't agree with me. I'm not sure what it is. I used to blame it on the aspertame and refused all artificial sweeteners, but after realizing that I could tolerate some things like sugar free gum or diet Dr. Pepper, I've come around to being more rational in my approach to aspartame, and can admit that it's probably something else in the formulation that doesn't agree with me, or its completely psychosomatic in that I just don't like the taste and I've mentally trained myself to have a physical reaction to a taste that I don't like......2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.0 -
gailjankovski wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.
What makes you think that what you are allergic to in chickpeas is the protein? That's an honest question. I'm not a doctor so I don't know.
From the OP, I get the impression that the two substances aspartame breaks down into are in all proteins:Aaron_K123 wrote: »<snip>...
What is aspartame?
For my fellow biochemists just simply saying its a methylester of phenylalanine and aspartate is enough to answer that question but figure I should take the time to explain what that means. Phenylalanine and aspartate are 2 of the 20 naturally occuring amino acids found in all protein. <snip>...
How much of those metabolites are in other foods?
As mentioned phenylalanine and aspartate are naturally occuring amino acids found in all proteins. Protein is about 5.46% aspartate and about 3.6% phenylalanine on average. So let us say you have a 4oz piece of chicken breast. A small 4oz chicken breast has about 24g of protein. That means that in that chicken breast there is .036*24*1000 = 864mg of phenylalanine and .055*24*1000 = 1320mg aspartate. That means to get the same amount of aspartate and phenylalanine from diet coke as you do from one 4oz chicken breast you would have to drink 18 diet cokes. <snip>...
I'm sure Aaron will be back to weigh in at some point, but figured I'd get you started 1 -
gailjankovski wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.
What makes you think that what you are allergic to in chickpeas is the protein? That's an honest question. I'm not a doctor so I don't know.
From the OP, I get the impression that the two substances aspartame breaks down into are in all proteins:Aaron_K123 wrote: »<snip>...
What is aspartame?
For my fellow biochemists just simply saying its a methylester of phenylalanine and aspartate is enough to answer that question but figure I should take the time to explain what that means. Phenylalanine and aspartate are 2 of the 20 naturally occuring amino acids found in all protein. <snip>...
How much of those metabolites are in other foods?
As mentioned phenylalanine and aspartate are naturally occuring amino acids found in all proteins. Protein is about 5.46% aspartate and about 3.6% phenylalanine on average. So let us say you have a 4oz piece of chicken breast. A small 4oz chicken breast has about 24g of protein. That means that in that chicken breast there is .036*24*1000 = 864mg of phenylalanine and .055*24*1000 = 1320mg aspartate. That means to get the same amount of aspartate and phenylalanine from diet coke as you do from one 4oz chicken breast you would have to drink 18 diet cokes. <snip>...
I'm sure Aaron will be back to weigh in at some point, but figured I'd get you started
To the best of my knowledge all food allergies are to proteins.2 -
gailjankovski wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.
What makes you think that what you are allergic to in chickpeas is the protein? That's an honest question. I'm not a doctor so I don't know.
From the OP, I get the impression that the two substances aspartame breaks down into are in all proteins:Aaron_K123 wrote: »<snip>...
What is aspartame?
For my fellow biochemists just simply saying its a methylester of phenylalanine and aspartate is enough to answer that question but figure I should take the time to explain what that means. Phenylalanine and aspartate are 2 of the 20 naturally occuring amino acids found in all protein. <snip>...
How much of those metabolites are in other foods?
As mentioned phenylalanine and aspartate are naturally occuring amino acids found in all proteins. Protein is about 5.46% aspartate and about 3.6% phenylalanine on average. So let us say you have a 4oz piece of chicken breast. A small 4oz chicken breast has about 24g of protein. That means that in that chicken breast there is .036*24*1000 = 864mg of phenylalanine and .055*24*1000 = 1320mg aspartate. That means to get the same amount of aspartate and phenylalanine from diet coke as you do from one 4oz chicken breast you would have to drink 18 diet cokes. <snip>...
I'm sure Aaron will be back to weigh in at some point, but figured I'd get you started
To the best of my knowledge all food allergies are to proteins.
Ok, thanks!0 -
gailjankovski wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.
I think you are confusing the terms a bit which I don't blame you for by the way the way they get used in science versus laypublic can be confusing.
Proteins are made up of long chains of individual subunits called amino acids, kind of like how DNA is made of a long chain of subunits called nucleotides. While DNA has 4 nucleotides, proteins have 20 different types of amino acids.
A protein is a long chain of interconnected amino acids that folds into a 3-dimensional functional shape. Many proteins interact with other proteins to form larger multidomain structures. Your typical protein is going to be somewhere between 80 and 400 amino acids long.
The proteins properties come from not so much the individual amino acids as their connection and arrangement in three dimensional space. So the 20 amino acids can form an infinite variety of proteins. Allergic reactions to proteins are antibody recognition of this unique three dimensional surface of the globular protein. There are an essentially infinite number of unique combinations of amino acids forming unique surfaces any of which could be potentially allergenic.
So there are a huge variety of different proteins out there, some of which can be allergenic...but they are derived from the same 20 basic amino acids. The same way that there are a huge variety of different life-forms based on a particular sequence of DNA, even though all of them have the same 4 nucelotides in their DNA. So when they become digested they end up becoming basically the same thing.
When we talk about protein nutritionally, we are just referring to what it breaks down into which is the 20 constituent amino acids.
Aspartame is just two amino acids linked together, phenylalanine and aspartate that has been methylated. So when I say aspartame is broken down into "protein" I mean it in the nutritional sense, it is broken down into amino acids...the same amino acids you would have from any protein source. What I do not mean is that aspartame is broken down into protein in the sense of it being somehow broken down into an entire three dimensionally folded protein comprised of 100s of amino acids. I think that is the confusion. Aspartame is tiny relative to a protein and small molecules are unlikely to be antigenic.
So long story short. When you digest any protein from any source it is broken down into its constituent amino acids which will be part of the total 20 different amino acids that make up protein. Aspartame is made up of two of those amino acids. If you were to eat any protein, it too would be digested into amino acids and among those amino acids would be the same amino acids that can be found in aspartame. Hope that makes more sense.6 -
To give you a sense of scale...this is aspartame:
and this is a small protein
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »gailjankovski wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »ImpreciseSeamstress wrote: »
Any time anyone asks if it's safe to feed foods with peanuts to babies for the first time, they say it's probably fine, but to be very careful because there are some people who have dangerous reactions, so watch carefully for symptoms of a reaction until you know it's safe, especially if there's a family history of peanut allergies. Seems like the same thing I say about aspartame. It's fine for most people, but I have a strong reaction.Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Would you object to someone saying peanuts are safe?
I know I'm not going to convince any of you that aspartame causes my symptoms, but it was more than just those two times and I wasn't Google diagnosing myself. (I didn't have a computer then.) After the bad episode, my friend told me she thought it was the diet soda and I thought she was just being a hippy and I kept drinking it in moderation and every single time I got a brain fog and excessive sleepiness. When I stopped, it didn't happen anymore. Since then there have been times where I didn't realize I had aspartame and I felt mentally foggy and tired. I back tracked and found that it was in something I wasn't expecting.
Science isn't perfect. Just because you don't understand how it could cause that, doesn't mean it doesn't cause it. If it's such a small percentage of people who react like I do, it's possible they didn't make it into the testing groups.
I'm not trying to cause fear. I'm stating my experience with the topic. I'm not disagreeing about it being safe for most people.
I think it’s amusing that you are arguing with a PhD biochemist who has studied this compound extensively that he just may not understand it... but your anecdotal testimonial about mental fogginess - which incidentally I often experience but I just attribute to being a busy adult who doesn’t get enough sleep - should trump the actual documented science of how this substance behaves in the body.
Eh I wouldn't say I have "studied this compound extensively", my job isn't related to aspartame at all. I've probably spent like 50 hours on it tops and just reading the literature pertaining to the DMPK studies because it is one of those things that really grabbed public attention. Most of my understanding of it just comes from my training as a biochemist and the fact that it is a methylated dipeptide and what that means mechanistically. My main point is that it breaks down immediately upon injestion into products that are found in all protein sources and all fruits. So if it causes medical issues then you would expect so would injesting protein and fruit. If injesting protein and fruit doesn't cause those issues then I think it is reasonable to ask how one explains that discrepency especially if ones evidence of the cause of symptoms is just correlative in nature.
But aren't some people allergic/sensitive to certain proteins and not others? So are you saying that the protein that aspartame breaks down into is present in EVERY protein source and fruit? And in the same quantities/concentrations?
I am not arguing with you I am genuinely curious. I am allergic to chick peas but not peanuts and I feel like common wisdom states that I should be allergic to both. So is it the concentration and/or combination of proteins that cause my allergy to one and not the other? I just wonder if it could be the same for aspartame.
I think you are confusing the terms a bit which I don't blame you for by the way the way they get used in science versus laypublic can be confusing.
Proteins are made up of long chains of individual subunits called amino acids, kind of like how DNA is made of a long chain of subunits called nucleotides. While DNA has 4 nucleotides, proteins have 20 different types of amino acids.
A protein is a long chain of interconnected amino acids that folds into a 3-dimensional functional shape. Many proteins interact with other proteins to form larger multidomain structures. Your typical protein is going to be somewhere between 80 and 400 amino acids long.
The proteins properties come from not so much the individual amino acids as their connection and arrangement in three dimensional space. So the 20 amino acids can form an infinite variety of proteins. Allergic reactions to proteins are antibody recognition of this unique three dimensional surface of the globular protein. There are an essentially infinite number of unique combinations of amino acids forming unique surfaces any of which could be potentially allergenic.
So there are a huge variety of different proteins out there, some of which can be allergenic...but they are derived from the same 20 basic amino acids. The same way that there are a huge variety of different life-forms based on a particular sequence of DNA, even though all of them have the same 4 nucelotides in their DNA. So when they become digested they end up becoming basically the same thing.
When we talk about protein nutritionally, we are just referring to what it breaks down into which is the 20 constituent amino acids.
Aspartame is just two amino acids linked together, phenylalanine and aspartate that has been methylated. So when I say aspartame is broken down into "protein" I mean it in the nutritional sense, it is broken down into amino acids...the same amino acids you would have from any protein source. What I do not mean is that aspartame is broken down into protein in the sense of it being somehow broken down into an entire three dimensionally folded protein comprised of 100s of amino acids. I think that is the confusion. Aspartame is tiny relative to a protein and small molecules are unlikely to be antigenic.
So long story short. When you digest any protein from any source it is broken down into its constituent amino acids which will be part of the total 20 different amino acids that make up protein. Aspartame is made up of two of those amino acids. If you were to eat any protein, it too would be digested into amino acids and among those amino acids would be the same amino acids that can be found in aspartame. Hope that makes more sense.
Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain that to me - I really appreciate it.5 -
Read the whole thread, very thankful for the scientific explanations.3
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I love aspartame, it keeps my sugar cravings at bay and let's me get on with losing weight without those energy peaks and troughs that lead me to binging.
I was brought up to think it was scary and to be avoided but then I was also taught to feel that way about vaccines and conventional medicene so.......
Good thing adults can form their own opinions huh?3 -
The early MSDS for it were not convincing, however. (The exact warning I believe was, "Safe if no more than a mouthful is consumed".) However, for some of us, it tastes like pure bitterness.3
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...and there you have it. Conclusive proof.
I can possibly get cancer by going on a long run if I forget to put on sunscreen or accidentally inhale too many diesel fumes. Guess it's best to just sit on my couch all day.
What I'd like to know is what about it/how it is possibly carcinogenic. You know...scientifically speaking.
Right! This is my problem with the “clean eater” “food snobs” I mean I think we all know we shouldn’t down 20 diet Coke’s a day and eat more unprocessed foods. That’s a given- however Hard core vegans get cancer too, should we be somewhat responsible eaters. Sure. I’ll enjoy my diet soda on occasion and even eat my lower calorie tortilla that YES is processed and full of crap, who cares.
I can’t stand food snobs. Huge pet peeve.
3 -
useyourthorns wrote: »The early MSDS for it were not convincing, however. (The exact warning I believe was, "Safe if no more than a mouthful is consumed".) However, for some of us, it tastes like pure bitterness.
I am assuming that this refers to the aspartame itself... and given that aspartame is 200+ times sweeter than sugar, I think your head would literally explode from the sweet overload if you tried to eat a mouthful of aspartame. If it refers to whatever the aspartame is in, I think that 50+ years of common usage across the entire planet has disproved that statement.7 -
For those of us who suffer from migraine, it is well known that aspartame (and other artificial sweetners such as saccharin, acesulfame potassium, sucralose, and neotame) can trigger skull-splitting headaches.2
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