8 Drinks! Are You Kidding Me???

beautifulwarrior18

Then you should visit my world in London and south of France! People spend their lives dabbling in and out of heavy drinking and function fine and live long lives. My grandparents lived til their late 80s, drank every day from midday and were fine upstanding citizens. There's so much fear around alcohol, rightly, but it's just human nature to enjoy it, it doesn't always mean there's a problem. When you meet a real alcoholic you can see/smell/sense a big difference.

Fascinating :huh:

May you please volunteer one single Saturday evening in any regular hospital in the emergency room.
Or may I personally introduce you to two people, one brain damaged and another one dead. Both victims independently to the so called "enjoyment" of somebody else to alcohol.
And may we please discuss this "there is so much fear around alcohol" statement again afterwards.

And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?

Your reply shows your utter ignorance about the cultures of Europe, and as someone who works in a hospital in a college town on Friday and Saturday nights, during pub crawls and graduation weekend, Thank you for making American's look dumb. The original point of the post was that a lot of Europeans would be considered heavy drinkers or binge drinkers or even alcoholics by volume by CDC guidelines; however, many cultures in Europe who grow up drinking doing it learn early how to do it responsibly (ie a beer or two with lunch and another two for dinner). And the tend to enjoy finer drinks and don't go for the schmirnoff iff the shelf because it will get them the drunkest on the least amount of money.

ANonAMouse3

I don't drink at all (maybe once a year or two???), but I would have never thought of 8 as being a heavy drinker either. The problem (I believe) is all of the "experts" giving everyone these "rules" and really, I just think they pull them out of the air. So, don't listen to those so-called "experts". Most people don't anyways. We do what WE feel is right. Don't let those "experts" tell you differently. Enjoy your life.

GothyFaery

That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol

A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.

Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.

there is absolutely no difference between a glass of wine and an OZ of hard liquor

This!

Why is it okay to drink a glass of wine every night but it's wrong to do a shot of liquor with the same alcohol content? Just because it's wine, doesn't make it any less of a drink.

_John_

damn, the CDC is WAY better than me at this game...well done.

Galatea_Stone

Don't confuse heavy drinker with alcoholic. Heavy drinker just means You drink frequently. I don't think there is really anything wrong with one drink a night and 2 on Sunday and I am sure you doctor will tell you the same thing.

But then again, I am from Green Bay. The land of beer and cheese.

I'm sorry but no doctor would advocate a patient drinking beer or hard liquor every night. Wine is a different story because it doesn't raise uric acid levels and is made of entirely different ingredients. You don't have to like it but it's as simple as that.

You mean my obstetrician was a quack? She was the top maternal-fetal specialist at a pretty recognizable university hospital. She totally recommended I drink a beer a night to help with lactation. It worked, but I should call her right away and tell her she's wrong.

BinaryPulsar

The guidelines do not mean alcoholic. They are just trying to set a limit on what is optimal in terms of optimal health and it's based on the average, some will fall above and below that. And there is a wide range between optimal health and health problems. And different people have different risk factors. I try to pay attention to the guidelines for myself, I find it helpful to me personally. I try to track my own responses to find what amount is good for me and what amount is not so great.

I also come from a family with severe alcoholism.

Springfield1970

Then you should visit my world in London and south of France! People spend their lives dabbling in and out of heavy drinking and function fine and live long lives. My grandparents lived til their late 80s, drank every day from midday and were fine upstanding citizens. There's so much fear around alcohol, rightly, but it's just human nature to enjoy it, it doesn't always mean there's a problem. When you meet a real alcoholic you can see/smell/sense a big difference.

Fascinating :huh:

May you please volunteer one single Saturday evening in any regular hospital in the emergency room.
Or may I personally introduce you to two people, one brain damaged and another one dead. Both victims independently to the so called "enjoyment" of somebody else to alcohol.
And may we please discuss this "there is so much fear around alcohol" statement again afterwards.

And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?

We were discussing what the definition of an alcoholic is and JoRocka rightly pointed out the metabolic dependancy that needs to be present for true alcoholism.

I have absolutely no illusions that alcohol isn't a terribly destructive thing. I've lost countless friends and relatives to it. I've been present to the alcoholic deaths of two people. My parents were both alcoholics, who couldn't function without it from morning to night. I am a binge drinker myself, who practises moderation. I've been a member of AA. Crack houses, jails and rehab clinics feel like home to me, as I've had a parent in rehab, and have volunteered in the other institutions.

So now I've stated my case, let's talk about 'fear around alcohol'. I refuse to pay penance for my parents, and have come out of a 21 year sobriety, which is incredibly risky given my circumstances, but I don't believe in inherited alcoholism. I am mature enough to tell the difference between a few glasses of wine with friends and horribly irresponsible behaviour like drink driving or out of control drunkeness. I've moved on from the black and white thinking of my Los Angeles AA days and am in a more civilized and sensible place.

As a child of two alcoholics I've experienced more fear about alcohol in one day than most people experience in a lifetime, yet I'm still mature enough to enjoy it.

Anyway, what did you have to add that was useful?

Galatea_Stone

That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol

A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.

Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.

You should at least discuss how much alcohol one would have to consume for elevated uric acid levels to have any adverse impact on health.

Even gout patients, who have high levels of uric acid, are permitted 3 beers a week.

Besides, there are lots of things that raise uric acid levels including eating too much fruit, getting too much B-3, not drinking enough water, eating too many trans fats, hypothyroidism, and taking diuretics.

MzFyreKitty

Funny how I hear so many people on here going on and on about things like aspartame, etc, screaming and yelling about what is and what is not healthy but those same people are on here ranting and raving that 8 drinks a week for a woman is NOT excessive?
Drinking excessively is not healthy. It will age your skin, if nothing else. I have seen the effects of drinking in my family. My Uncle (Mom's brother) started drinking excessively after his parents both died within a year of each other. He was very close to them and lived with them to help take care of them. He began drinking excessively and less than 10 years later he died from alcoholism. Ya, go ahead and say this is stupid. Some people can become excessive drinkers and not really seem to have a big effect but drinking is related to so many health concerns. It's not just opinion but fact. Isn't it better to just stop drinking?

Honestly, I don't drink, I don't smoke (both my parents did). I look much younger than my age (ya, part of that is genetic). People generally guess me to be in my 30's and I am in my mid 50's... no surgeries, no laser, no anything. And it wasn't from eating healthy, I only became a full time vegetarian (I use to try it in spurts) about 5-6 years ago. I don't miss drinking. I have a great time just going out and having friends and none of my friends care if I drink or not (some of them are pretty big drinkers...heck 8 drinks a night is more like it for them!).

Oh well, I know that many of you would rather go out drinking than worry about your health and the consequences of what you could be looking at a few years down the line... that's up to you. I know that when I was younger, I never thought that anything like that would happen to me! I honestly hope it won't happen to you, but the chances are it will. My Aunt was lucky enough to catch her breast cancer early... and she doesn't drink anymore now.

Here is the official Press Release from the CDC's site;
"One in 10 deaths among working-age adults due to excessive drinking
Excessive alcohol use accounts for one in 10 deaths among working-age adults ages 20-64 years in the United States, according to a report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published today in Preventing Chronic Disease.
Excessive alcohol use led to approximately 88,000 deaths per year from 2006 to 2010, and shortened the lives of those who died by about 30 years. These deaths were due to health effects from drinking too much over time, such as breast cancer, liver disease, and heart disease; and health effects from drinking too much in a short period of time, such as violence, alcohol poisoning, and motor vehicle crashes. In total, there were 2.5 million years of potential life lost each year due to excessive alcohol use.
Nearly 70 percent of deaths due to excessive drinking involved working-age adults, and about 70 percent of the deaths involved males. About 5 percent of the deaths involved people under age 21. The highest death rate due to excessive drinking was in New Mexico (51 deaths per 100,000 population), and the lowest was in New Jersey (19.1 per 100,000).
“Excessive alcohol use is a leading cause of preventable death that kills many Americans in the prime of their lives,” said Ursula E. Bauer, Ph.D., M.P.H., director of CDC’s National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion. “We need to redouble our efforts to implement scientifically proven public health approaches to reduce this tragic loss of life and the huge economic costs that result.”
Excessive drinking includes binge drinking (4 or more drinks on an occasion for women, 5 or more drinks on an occasion for men), heavy drinking (8 or more drinks a week for women, 15 or more drinks a week for men), and any alcohol use by pregnant women or those under the minimum legal drinking age of 21. Excessive drinking cost the United States about $224 billion, or $1.90 per drink, in 2006. Most of these costs were due to lost productivity, including reduced earnings among excessive drinkers as well as deaths due to excessive drinking among working age adults.
To estimate deaths due to excessive drinking, CDC scientists analyzed data from the Alcohol-Related Disease Impact (ARDI) application for 2006-2010. ARDI provides national and state-specific estimates of alcohol-attributable deaths and years of potential life lost. ARDI currently includes 54 causes of death for which estimates of alcohol involvement were either directly available or could be calculated based on existing scientific information.
“It’s shocking to see the public health impact of excessive drinking on working-age adults,” said Robert Brewer, M.D., M.S.P.H., head of CDC’s Alcohol Program and one of the report’s authors. “CDC is working with partners to support the implementation of strategies for preventing excessive alcohol use that are recommended by the Community Preventive Services Task Force, which can help reduce the health and social cost of this dangerous risk behavior.”
The independent HHS Community Preventive Services Task Force recommends several evidence-based strategies to reduce excessive drinking. These include increasing alcohol taxes, regulating alcohol outlet density, and avoiding further privatization of alcohol retail sales.
For more information about excessive drinking, including binge drinking, and how to prevent this dangerous behavior, visit the CDC’s Alcohol and Public Health website at http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/index.htm. Members of the public who are concerned about their own or someone else's drinking can call 1-800-662-HELP to receive assistance from the national Drug and Alcohol Treatment Referral Routing Service"

For state-specific estimates of deaths and years of potential life lost due to excessive drinking by condition, visit the ARDI online application at https://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/ardi/HomePage.aspx.

Springfield1970

I've got to say I'm enjoying this debate and it's making me think.

Rich is the person that can moderate their alcohol consumption. It's not easy, it takes hard work. I think abstinence is an easy answer, but there is a lot of pleasure to be had sharing food and wine with friends and lovers.

I was a bit shocked when my friend had a glass of wine with me one night, we don't usually drink, but I'd cooked a curry and had some knocking around, he's easily 200lb of muscle, 6'3" and it went to his head and couldn't finish it. I love that in a man! This is why I like to hang out with sportsmen. Particularly as most guys in the uk are heavy drinkers (and substance users).

tedrickp

I love that in a man! This is why I like to hang out with sportsmen. Particularly as most guys in the uk are heavy drinkers (and substance users).

Must be different in Canada than UK - sports seems to equal booze here. :laugh: The guys I grew up with are all jocks and they are noted boozehounds (in fact that is the name of both their softball and hockey teams lol)

afortunatedragon

MzFyreKitty: 1+

dakotababy

I have worked with countless addicts in my time. Today, Alcohol is so "normal" and "common" that I think those who do drink 8 or more drinks a week dont realize that that amount...is heavy, and to some...abnormal!

It is like society becomes "De-senitized" to alcohol and how much is normal/too much.

8 drinks a week...to me, is heavy/not normal.

nmai111

It's a ridiculous story implying that most Italian women who drink usually 1 to 2 glasses of wine per day are all heavy drinkers. They're actually far healthier than US women and live longer. 1-2 servings of alcohol per day is good for you according to many studies and especially wine. So this article seems totally at odds with reality in Europe and at odds with science itself.

TutuMom41

I have worked with countless addicts in my time. Today, Alcohol is so "normal" and "common" that I think those who do drink 8 or more drinks a week dont realize that that amount...is heavy, and to some...abnormal!

It is like society becomes "De-senitized" to alcohol and how much is normal/too much.

8 drinks a week...to me, is heavy/not normal.

well said. I think with media and society people are completely desensitized

Aero1dynamic

If I make it through my day burning more calories than I've consumed, I think I deserve a drink. Or 8. Unfortunately, no drink for me tonight =(

afortunatedragon

Then you should visit my world in London and south of France! People spend their lives dabbling in and out of heavy drinking and function fine and live long lives. My grandparents lived til their late 80s, drank every day from midday and were fine upstanding citizens. There's so much fear around alcohol, rightly, but it's just human nature to enjoy it, it doesn't always mean there's a problem. When you meet a real alcoholic you can see/smell/sense a big difference.

Fascinating :huh:

May you please volunteer one single Saturday evening in any regular hospital in the emergency room.
Or may I personally introduce you to two people, one brain damaged and another one dead. Both victims independently to the so called "enjoyment" of somebody else to alcohol.
And may we please discuss this "there is so much fear around alcohol" statement again afterwards.

And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?

Your reply shows your utter ignorance about the cultures of Europe, and as someone who works in a hospital in a college town on Friday and Saturday nights, during pub crawls and graduation weekend, Thank you for making American's look dumb. The original point of the post was that a lot of Europeans would be considered heavy drinkers or binge drinkers or even alcoholics by volume by CDC guidelines; however, many cultures in Europe who grow up drinking doing it learn early how to do it responsibly (ie a beer or two with lunch and another two for dinner). And the tend to enjoy finer drinks and don't go for the schmirnoff iff the shelf because it will get them the drunkest on the least amount of money.

Well, as a European (Austrian living in Ireland) it is a bit difficult for me to ignore the cultures of Europe.
I have no idea, why my comment makes American look stupid.
When did I refer to Americans?
Funny that all the "drinking responsibly education" Europeans have by your quote, doesn't help.
Europe has all the problems emerging from Alcohol possible.
.

AglaeaC

People are merrily mixing cultural bias with science. Made an entertaining read, cheers.

JoRocka

And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?

we already discussed this.

and clearly you don't read- she alreayd said she lost a parent to it.

I did not read the other eight pages.
But I read it now.

Doesn't make her comment any better.

perhaps you should workon reading MORE of the conversation before just jumping in- at least a page or two back to catch yourself up.

and no- her comments are STILL spot on.

as far as the MsFitzKitty's and you're +1.. it was definitely a TL;DR post.

wall-o-text..
cutting and pasting large blocks of posts off other sites doesn't make your point more credible or valid. It just makes you difficult to want to listen to.

BinaryPulsar

The main thing I have noticed is that online calculations from UK Sites say smaller amounts of alcohol form a unit, than when I switch it over to the U.S. The U.S. one is also slightly higher than the Canada one. The main tracking site I use online is drinkaware.co.uk