Do you believe in strictly Calories In - Calories Out?

Options
1…78101213…35

Replies

  • sabified
    sabified Posts: 1,051 Member
    Options
    bump to read later
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
    Options
    Quoting things multiple times and in multiple ways (via multiple links) does not make it more correct.
    [/quote

    I'm confused.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
    Options
    Quoting things multiple times and in multiple ways (via multiple links) does not make it more correct.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/post/new/1347263-do-you-believe-in-strictly-calories-in-calories-out?quote=20665909
  • athensguy
    athensguy Posts: 550
    Options
    Calories In vs. Calories Out works.

    If you miscalculate one or both of those things, then it might make things a little dicier.

    It's pretty close to impossible to correctly calculate your energy expenditure. You can start with a guess and figure out a reasonable average over time if you work at it, though. To do that, you keep close watch on your intake, try to keep your micro-nutrient intake consistent, and weigh yourself regularly. Keeping a spreadsheet for a few weeks can help you decide how you need to modify your intake to meet your goals.

    You can get reasonable numbers with caloric intake as long as you're weighing your food and actually recording what you eat.
  • csy108
    csy108 Posts: 58 Member
    Options
    Quotes from the NEJM paper (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1014296?query=TOC&#t=articleTop) that some blogger used as evidence that "quality" of calories trumps CICO:

    "weight stability requires a balance between calories consumed and calories expended" So CICO.

    "Some foods — vegetables, nuts, fruits, and whole grains — were associated with less weight gain when consumption was actually increased. Obviously, such foods provide calories and cannot violate thermodynamic laws. Their inverse associations with weight gain suggest that the increase in their consumption reduced the intake of other foods to a greater (caloric) extent, decreasing the overall amount of energy consumed." So it's still a matter of CICO, but changing eating habits or feeling more full after eating resulted in people unwittingly reducing their calories consumed.

    "Overall, our analysis showed divergent relationships between specific foods or beverages and long-term weight gain, suggesting that dietary quality (the types of foods and beverages consumed) influences dietary quantity (total calories)." So total CICO still was the direct scientific cause of weight gain or loss, but dietary quality influences CICO, i.e. people that eat unfilling foods or super calorie dense foods tend to eat a calorie surplus. Duh.

    "Our findings suggest that both individual and population-based strategies to help people consume fewer calories may be most effective when particular foods and beverages are targeted for decreased (or increased) consumption." So the researchers are asserting that eating "healthier" diets should help people reach the END GOAL of consuming fewer calories. Got it.
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    Options

    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

    Wrong my friend, not my opinion. Read and learn!

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    That's not helped your case. First line is "I think..." and it's unsupported. So your opinion is backed up by someone elses opinion and speculation.

    I have only skim read this study so forgive me......... however, no mention appears to be made of the participants actually tracking daily calorie intake? They filled out a questionnaire every 2 years to report on lifestyle changes..the study seems to report that weight gain is associated with the consumption of certain types of foods which in itself is reasonable.

    It does NOT appear to state that regardless of overall calorie intake, certain types of food lead directly weight gain.

    Based on my (admittedly very brief) look at this, it doesn't seem to support what you are saying.

    someone with more time on their hands could probably due a better job with the full text

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1014296?query=TOC&#t=articleMethods

    Ginal59...care to respond?
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    Options
    Quoting things multiple times and in multiple ways (via multiple links) does not make it more correct.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/post/new/1347263-do-you-believe-in-strictly-calories-in-calories-out?quote=20665909

    QFT
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Yes, because our body does not utilize every calorie the same. :)
    You seriously have got to be the worst poster I have seen on MFP in a long time. You always just throw out opinions with no substance. Ever. EVER.

    No you need to study my friend.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    It's not my opinion. I have done many years of research on the subject, and do not have the time or inclination to post every research document that I have read over the 35+ years. CICO is wrong. Quality of foods matter, because we metabolize them differently.

    You do not need to agree with me, but you need to stick to the subject matter without attacking me personally.

    Why are we supposed to stick to your 'facts' when you don't wish back them up? I suppose that all of your knowledge comes from peer reviewed scientific research articles? Or does it come from opinion blogs? These are important distinctions. The fact that you don't even know that CICO does NOT mean food quality doesn't matter is very telling to me.


    If you read my other posts on MFP you will see that I have posted many research data, so I do back up what I'm saying. CICO is wrong.
    There aren't any studies that prove it wrong, if so please present it..........we'll wait

    Why Calories Count
    The Science Behind Why Calories Matter - And Why Dismissing Them Is Naive
    http://ca.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/why-calories-count.html

    "Aragon told me that no such study exists that shows people being overfed and losing weight. What’s more, there is no study in existence that shows people being underfed and not losing weight. "


    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
    I think you need to do some research on the difference between a scientific study and an opinion. It may help you


    Wrong Harvard is not an opinion source.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    Yeah actually, that is an opinion source written by someone named Charlotte on a commercial website called thegreatfitness experiment. It is not a study. It mentions a "study" but when you click the link rather than take you to an actual study it takes you to another internet opinion piece by someone named Jane Brody in which a "Harvard study" is mentioned but not cited.

    Where is the actual study? Did you read the actual study?
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    CICO old dogma!



    http://davidgillespie.org/why-the-first-law-of-thermodynamics-has-no-place-in-human-nutrition/
    Please, for the next 30 days eat 5000 calories of all 'healthy', 'clean' approved foods and come back to this thread and tell us that you didn't gain any weight at all.


    Will do that when you eat 5000 calories from doughnut!
    This!
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    Quoting things multiple times and in multiple ways (via multiple links) does not make it more correct.


    LOLOLOLOLLLLLL
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Options
    ginal59 - why would he eat 5000 calories of doughnuts? You're the one trying to disprove the importance of calories, and stating quality of food is all that matters.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    CICO old dogma!



    http://davidgillespie.org/why-the-first-law-of-thermodynamics-has-no-place-in-human-nutrition/
    Please, for the next 30 days eat 5000 calories of all 'healthy', 'clean' approved foods and come back to this thread and tell us that you didn't gain any weight at all.


    Will do that when you eat 5000 calories from doughnut!
    This!

    I'd actually take you up on this but I'm not sure how we would be able hold each other accountable to it. Are you actually willing to eat 5000 calories per day or are you just having an "LOL" moment here?

    That said I thought the point you were trying to make was amount of calories didn't matter, food quality mattered. So why is it necessary to eat 5000 calories worth of donuts to be comparable to eating 5000 calories of "healthy" food then? According to your logic you should be able to eat 5000 calories of healthy food and be better off for weight loss or maintenance than if I ate 1800 calories of just donuts right?
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
    Options
    Curious what everyone thinks of this article from Harvard.

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/
    This article mimics what I have experienced in real life and what I base my eating on when I am being healthy and actively trying to lose weight. Thanks for the link!


    Thank you!

    But it is still just an article, not a scientific study, thus =/= evidence.

    Can I introduce you to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    Yes, because our body does not utilize every calorie the same. :)
    You seriously have got to be the worst poster I have seen on MFP in a long time. You always just throw out opinions with no substance. Ever. EVER.

    No you need to study my friend.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    It's not my opinion. I have done many years of research on the subject, and do not have the time or inclination to post every research document that I have read over the 35+ years. CICO is wrong. Quality of foods matter, because we metabolize them differently.

    You do not need to agree with me, but you need to stick to the subject matter without attacking me personally.

    Why are we supposed to stick to your 'facts' when you don't wish back them up? I suppose that all of your knowledge comes from peer reviewed scientific research articles? Or does it come from opinion blogs? These are important distinctions. The fact that you don't even know that CICO does NOT mean food quality doesn't matter is very telling to me.


    If you read my other posts on MFP you will see that I have posted many research data, so I do back up what I'm saying. CICO is wrong.
    There aren't any studies that prove it wrong, if so please present it..........we'll wait

    Why Calories Count
    The Science Behind Why Calories Matter - And Why Dismissing Them Is Naive
    http://ca.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/why-calories-count.html

    "Aragon told me that no such study exists that shows people being overfed and losing weight. What’s more, there is no study in existence that shows people being underfed and not losing weight. "


    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
    I think you need to do some research on the difference between a scientific study and an opinion. It may help you


    Wrong Harvard is not an opinion source.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    Yeah actually, that is an opinion source written by someone named Charlotte on a commercial website called thegreatfitness experiment. It is not a study. It mentions a "study" but when you click the link rather than take you to an actual study it takes you to another internet opinion piece by someone named Jane Brody in which a "Harvard study" is mentioned but not cited.

    Where is the actual study? Did you read the actual study?






    How is this my friend:

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    Options

    Where is the actual study? Did you read the actual study?

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1014296?query=TOC&#t=articleMethods


    It's clear she hasn't read it and I'm starting to think we are all being trolled
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options

    Where is the actual study? Did you read the actual study?

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1014296?query=TOC&#t=articleMethods

    Thanks. Has anyone actually read this or is it a case of just passing around a study link. I'd be willing to read it if others have read it but if I end up being the only one who has actually read it can't help but feel like I will be just wasting my time.
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    More data:


    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/calorie-calorie-harvard-study-compares-popular-weight-loss/story?id=16654506



    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/health/19brody.html?pagewanted=all


    http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20120626/all-calories-not-created-equal-study-suggests

    http://news.health.com/2013/02/07/why-calorie-counts-are-wrong-6-diet-myths-busted/
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Yes, because our body does not utilize every calorie the same. :)
    You seriously have got to be the worst poster I have seen on MFP in a long time. You always just throw out opinions with no substance. Ever. EVER.

    No you need to study my friend.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    It's not my opinion. I have done many years of research on the subject, and do not have the time or inclination to post every research document that I have read over the 35+ years. CICO is wrong. Quality of foods matter, because we metabolize them differently.

    You do not need to agree with me, but you need to stick to the subject matter without attacking me personally.

    Why are we supposed to stick to your 'facts' when you don't wish back them up? I suppose that all of your knowledge comes from peer reviewed scientific research articles? Or does it come from opinion blogs? These are important distinctions. The fact that you don't even know that CICO does NOT mean food quality doesn't matter is very telling to me.


    If you read my other posts on MFP you will see that I have posted many research data, so I do back up what I'm saying. CICO is wrong.
    There aren't any studies that prove it wrong, if so please present it..........we'll wait

    Why Calories Count
    The Science Behind Why Calories Matter - And Why Dismissing Them Is Naive
    http://ca.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/why-calories-count.html

    "Aragon told me that no such study exists that shows people being overfed and losing weight. What’s more, there is no study in existence that shows people being underfed and not losing weight. "


    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
    I think you need to do some research on the difference between a scientific study and an opinion. It may help you


    Wrong Harvard is not an opinion source.

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    Yeah actually, that is an opinion source written by someone named Charlotte on a commercial website called thegreatfitness experiment. It is not a study. It mentions a "study" but when you click the link rather than take you to an actual study it takes you to another internet opinion piece by someone named Jane Brody in which a "Harvard study" is mentioned but not cited.

    Where is the actual study? Did you read the actual study?






    How is this my friend:

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/

    I'm beginning to think you really don't know what a study is. That was published in a harvard news magazine called the Gazzette and is, AGAIN, an editorial opinion piece written by Andrea Moody at the communications department. It at least claims to link to the actual study (not conducted at Harvard by the way) but if you click it the link is broken. It is pretty clear you haven't read this study yourself since you have been completely unable to link to it.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    More data:


    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/calorie-calorie-harvard-study-compares-popular-weight-loss/story?id=16654506



    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/health/19brody.html?pagewanted=all


    Click here to learn more about the study or go to abcnews.go.com/Health/calorie-calorie-harvard-study-compares-popular-weight-loss/story?id=16654506 .

    Do you even know what a study is. ALL of your links are to opinion pieces in newspapers.

Categories