Sorry I'm Not Sorry - I gotta rant!

ninerbuff · September 2014

Okay...someone is going to have to dumb this down for me, because I do not understand the backlash to the OP.

If someone asks me for suggestions because they are not losing weight...and I respond by saying "try to add more fruits and vegetables to your diet"...I would be wrong in telling them this?

You'd short on your answer. They could add fruit and vegetables, but if it's on top the current calories they are already eating (where they aren't losing weight), chances are they'll gain weight. "Clean eating" or not, it still comes down to CICO.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

likitisplit · September 2014

Define "healthy."

Oooo. I'll do it.

Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life

So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?

Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?

Mental and physical health are two different things.

Do you realise how tied the mind and body actually are?

That's true but getting down to my ideal weight isn't going to cure my bipolar disorder, depressive issorder, or asbergers. I'll look good but i'll still be nuttier than a fruitcake.

Getting down to your ideal weight also won't cure
- Skin Cancer
- Diabetes
- Dandruff
- Herpes
- Parkinson's
- Etc.

mz_getskinny · September 2014

Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.

if you burn more than you consume....you will.

If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.

so then you're not arguing against the fact that if one burns more than they consume, they will lose weight.
your issue is that you cant seem to keep your cals below your burn.

fair enough.

i thought you were saying that you were eating at a deficit and not losing weight.

I am arguing that I have eaten at a deficit before and not lost weight. I am also saying that eating processed foods doesn't fill me up like healthier options do. I am also saying that I have previously gone over my calorie limit due to still being hungry an hour after eating processed foods. I am also saying that I have damn near starved myself, and still not lost weight.

My question is, why are you disagreeing with how my body works? It seems that you know nothing about me or my ability to lose weight...and people like YOU make me dislike this site. Not people like the OP.

AglaeaC · September 2014

Define "healthy."

Oooo. I'll do it.

Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life

So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?

Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?

Mental and physical health are two different things.

But they go hand in hand in OVERALL health, no?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.

I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.

The WHO definition of health:
Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

Since you seem to have missed it the first time.

Would have respected your response, had it not been for the snark at the end.

It wasn't snark! I just added it as explanation for someone, who might have seen it already and wondered why I posted it again. I take health very seriously and wouldn't dream of being snarky in this context. Sorry about the confusion!

BusyRaeNOTBusty · September 2014

They can be tied in, but they are not entirely intertwined.
I have depression, and sometimes don't even want to get out of bed. But physically I am "healthy", by the standards outlined in this thread. By that logic, I am unhealthy because I am diagnosed with a mental illness that *sometimes* makes it difficult for me to function?

Right.

I would say, that you are not completely "healthy" no. But it's not black and white. And mental illness is certainly not your fault and if you are getting treatment then, sure, you could be classified as mostly healthy. I'm not trying to insult anyone.

I have generically borderline to high blood pressure. Yes, this keeps me from being completely "healthy" but I can still be mostly healthy. A lot of mostly healthy people get cancer, again not their fault, but I wouldn't call them healthy after that diagnoses.

rileysowner · September 2014

999tigger · September 2014

Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.

I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.

Mental and phsyical health are different you can be one without being the other. If you have a mental health issue you have it plain and simple. Nothing to do with about it seeming right.

If you have any or a number of the following, then a Dr and most people would consider that person to be unhealthy, although its relative to the person who has none of these problems.

Overweight and obesity
Malnutrition
Iron-deficiency anemia
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Dyslipidemia (poor lipid profiles)
Type 2 diabetes
Osteoporosis
Oral disease
Constipation
Diverticular disease
Some cancers

stevencloser · September 2014

Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.

if you burn more than you consume....you will.

If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.

so then you're not arguing against the fact that if one burns more than they consume, they will lose weight.
your issue is that you cant seem to keep your cals below your burn.

fair enough.

i thought you were saying that you were eating at a deficit and not losing weight.

I am arguing that I have eaten at a deficit before and not lost weight. I am also saying that eating processed foods doesn't fill me up like healthier options do. I am also saying that I have previously gone over my calorie limit due to still being hungry an hour after eating processed foods. I am also saying that I have damn near starved myself, and still not lost weight.

My question is, why are you disagreeing with how my body works? It seems that you know nothing about me or my ability to lose weight...and people like YOU make me dislike this site. Not people like the OP.

You haven't eaten at a deficit then. It is physically impossible for your body to take in less calories than it expends and not lose weight. I am being literal here. It is physically impossible.
You weren't at a deficit, simple as that.

devil_in_a_blue_dress · September 2014

Balanced diets with a calorie total less than you've burned. End. Of. Story.

AglaeaC · September 2014

Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.

I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.

Mental and phsyical health are different you can be one without being the other. If you have a mental health issue you have it plain and simple. Nothing to do with about it seeming right.

If you have any or a number of the following, then a Dr and most people would consider that person to be unhealthy, although its relative to the person who has none of these problems.

Overweight and obesity
Malnutrition
Iron-deficiency anemia
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Dyslipidemia (poor lipid profiles)
Type 2 diabetes
Osteoporosis
Oral disease
Constipation
Diverticular disease
Some cancers

I fail to see your point, tigger.

kimnsc · September 2014

Here is my 2 cents worth. I mostly eat well balanced meals. Stay with in my calories. I decided to buy a box of lucky charms cerial. I weighed and measured my portions throughout the week, never going over my limits. Come weight day I was up 2 lbs. Coincidence, maybe, but for what other reason did I gain?

More calories in than you're burning, water weight, improper measuring other foods......I eat lucky charms regularly and haven't gained an ounce.

s_pekz · September 2014

Personally I care just as much if not more about my mental health compared to my physical health. Physical health can come but mental health is harder for me to maintain.

There is no way in hell I can maintain decent mental health if my mind is so preoccupied with "dirty" and "clean" food. Plus, having a social life is super important for mental health.

SO honestly this clean food business drives me insane. Go on feeling morally superior to me. When I die before you (since im "dirty) but way happier we can compare notes then.

PikaKnight · September 2014

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

^All QFT. Have you lost your mind yet?

FitnFeistyLyness · September 2014

different strokes for different folks

bio individuality.. how i eat i cant expect others to eat that way.

i eat extremely healthy and clean because i have to i have come to love my way of eating and i agree i do feel better eating that way. my body doesn't tolerate processed foods, but i dont judge my friends who eat differently than me... we all make our choices and my way is not the only way that works. mfp is full of people that have had amazing progress following different styles of eating.i do agree people could eat more whole unprocessed foods, but that has to be their choice. some people count calories eat in moderation and fit it in their day.

i always say i found what works for me. but i respect others ways.. i dont offer advice on their foods unless they ask me and even than i try not to be judgmental i.make small suggestions,but dont expect them to do it my way.. they are not me. they have to find what works for them

chilly1470 · September 2014

I am a student in the healthcare field, You are very correct, it is about what you eat, much more than just calorie intake. If you eat fast food the amount of sodium alone you would intake will put water weight on you, destroy your kidneys, and not to mention cause hypertension, swelling in joints, and eventually flat out kill you, even if you're perfect weight # on scale to your height.

Totally explains why Asians in Asia live longer lives, and don't have the same weight issues as Americans, they eat less sodium.......................................................not really. I'm betting the average Asian takes in 4500 mg of sodium a day. You'd think that that much sodium would thin the population down. Nope.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

First off, define Asian. That could mean Mongolian, Japanese, Vietnamese, Pakistani, Filipino, Taiwanese etc. People need to think before they post uneducated crap just to prove a point. Take your average Chinese, they DO NOT eat a lot of sodium. They actually eat a lot of veggies and rice. I have numerous Chinese friends and know this to be a fact. The sodium you "may" be referring to is the garbage they slop together at buffets and call it Chinese or the packaged heart attacks like Ramen with so much sodium. And check your death rates, the average Japanese live no longer than in the US so they don't live longer lives. The reason most "Asians" don't have our weight problems is because a very high percentage live in abject poverty and most only have access to vegetables and rice. And not too many McDonald's in the hills of Szechuan.

_HeartsOnFire_ · September 2014

Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.

if you burn more than you consume....you will.

If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.

You...I like you...

_HeartsOnFire_ · September 2014

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.

^All QFT. Have you lost your mind yet?

You...I REALLLLLY like you.

GothyFaery · September 2014

Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.

if you burn more than you consume....you will.

If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.

so then you're not arguing against the fact that if one burns more than they consume, they will lose weight.
your issue is that you cant seem to keep your cals below your burn.

fair enough.

i thought you were saying that you were eating at a deficit and not losing weight.

I am arguing that I have eaten at a deficit before and not lost weight. I am also saying that eating processed foods doesn't fill me up like healthier options do. I am also saying that I have previously gone over my calorie limit due to still being hungry an hour after eating processed foods. I am also saying that I have damn near starved myself, and still not lost weight.

My question is, why are you disagreeing with how my body works? It seems that you know nothing about me or my ability to lose weight...and people like YOU make me dislike this site. Not people like the OP.

Why can't people understand that a calorie is a unit of messure? Saying calories in VS calories out doesn't work for you is like saying 2 inches in my house is not 2 inches in yours.

As far as what keeps you fuller, that's all preferance and I'm glad to hear you found what keeps you full and not miserable. Keep doing it but as soon as you eat over your TDEE, you will gain weight, no matter what the food consists of.

Nonzie78 · September 2014

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but the bottom line is; sugar and processed foods cause inflammation. PERIOD. Inflammation causes a whole host of other problems including weight gain.

Sorry I'm Not Sorry - I gotta rant!

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