Starvation Mode is Real, and ugly

myofibril

Read this:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/permanent-metabolic-damage-followup-qa.html

Fingers crossed....

:smooched: Thank you, so much!!!!!!

If you are in a mind expanding mood read this as well:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/set-points-settling-points-and-bodyweight-regulation-part-1.html

Our bodies are amazing self regulating mechanisms. Lyle McDonald goes into greater depth on this subject in his book "A Flexible Guide To Dieting." Our bodies have a natural "settling" point where it likes being. To coax it from that happy place it is much better to approach it gently rather than try and beat it into submission. After all, our bodies have thousands of years of survival evolution on its side....

TBirdGirl

Thank you for sharing!

Marla64

Read this:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/permanent-metabolic-damage-followup-qa.html

Fingers crossed....

:smooched: Thank you, so much!!!!!!

If you are in a mind expanding mood read this as well:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/set-points-settling-points-and-bodyweight-regulation-part-1.html

Our bodies are amazing self regulating mechanisms. Lyle McDonald goes into greater depth on this subject in his book "A Flexible Guide To Dieting." Our bodies have a natural "settling" point where it likes being. To coax it from that happy place it is much better to approach it gently rather than try and beat it into submission. After all, our bodies have thousands of years of survival evolution on its side....

You don't know how much I appreciate this-- thank you SO much-- !!!!!!!!

firmbug

sounds like insulin resistance and/or hormone imbalance, especially in light of your thyroid issues.

Marla64

sounds like insulin resistance and/or hormone imbalance, especially in light of your thyroid issues.

So far, all they've found is Hashimoto's-- I've been in their faces for almost a year, basically telling them what to look for. "Look for this. Okay, now look for that." They're getting tired of me, no doubt. I had three doctors blow me off as soon as the TSH came back fine with the "Well, you know, you are getting older," crap. Totally pissed me off.

I finally found a doctor who took me seriously and kept checking-- at my urging she checked for ovarian issues since I have a history of cysts, and while I do have small ones, they tell me they're not pertinent to my weight gain. I'm not so sure, but nobody will do anything about it.

They just did a full blood panel, and nothing is out of order in the sugar realm-- it's been maddening, to say the least.

Also, I have to add-- since being on a measly 25 mcg of Synthroid, my TSH and free t4 levels are now "within normal" range, so they won't even increase the dosage.

JillyCornwall

Bump because its so important

robin52077

Read this:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/permanent-metabolic-damage-followup-qa.html

Fingers crossed....

That is a great website. I have read the hell out of it and learned so much. Explore the whole site, those of you who haven't. If you like learning and reading, you'll love it.

I had to say that but mostly just wanted to give this thread a much deserved bump.

Marla64

thanks, Robin and Jilly-- I really want to get this message out. I know a lot of people will ignore it. I did for over a year. My friend on here warned me almost a year ago that based on what she was learning from Tom Venuto in his Burn Fat, Feed Muscle program-- or whatever it's called-- that I needed more calories. I didn't want to listen.

I was training for a half marathon, running 15-20 miles a week, then moved on to Insanity-- and kept my caloric base at 1400. Since I was not only in a plateau, but beginning to gain, it'd freak me out and I'd cut to 1200 for a week, then bounce up to 1600 or 1800-- but, my needs still weren't being met.

At the time, my basal metabolic rate was, yes, 1471. But that's what my body needs never getting out of bed.

With all the exercise I was getting, my caloric needs at the time were actually 2300-2500--

Yes, I was eating my exercise calories back in, but still not nearly enough nutrition-- and I'm paying the price.

I want to share this, but am deciding where and with whom. There is so much misinformation on this site, and I know in a lot of cases I'll be talking to walls.

myofibril

thanks, Robin and Jilly-- I really want to get this message out. I know a lot of people will ignore it. I did for over a year. My friend on here warned me almost a year ago that based on what she was learning from Tom Venuto in his Burn Fat, Feed Muscle program-- or whatever it's called-- that I needed more calories. I didn't want to listen.

I was training for a half marathon, running 15-20 miles a week, then moved on to Insanity-- and kept my caloric base at 1400. Since I was not only in a plateau, but beginning to gain, it'd freak me out and I'd cut to 1200 for a week, then bounce up to 1600 or 1800-- but, my needs still weren't being met.

At the time, my basal metabolic rate was, yes, 1471. But that's what my body needs never getting out of bed.

With all the exercise I was getting, my caloric needs at the time were actually 2300-2500--

Yes, I was eating my exercise calories back in, but still not nearly enough nutrition-- and I'm paying the price.

I want to share this, but am deciding where and with whom. There is so much misinformation on this site, and I know in a lot of cases I'll be talking to walls.

Let me get this straight. Are you seriously telling me you survived on that level of calories coupled with a high exercise volume for well over a year? Please tell me that you had at least 3 or so breaks from your diet at that time where you ate at maintenance and cut back the exercise. Please tell me that you allowed yourself a free meal once a week or so and maybe a refeed day as well?

If you didn't....damn. I am sure that would be considered as torture under Article 3 of the ECHR. Sorry to be sexist but what is it with women? Do they see it as a badge of honour to see who can be the most miserable for the longest amount of time? If you told me I had to follow the plan that you did I honestly think I would cry...and the last time I cried was when I watched Bambi as a kid.

I would wholeheartedly endorse "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" by Tom Venuto. I have consulted it many, many times over the years. This is what he has to say about starvation mode:

http://www.burnthefat.com/starvation_mode.html

Anyone who says starvation mode doesn't exist needs to take a hike. Yes, the concept is poorly applied sometimes ("if you miss one meal or breakfast you are in starvation mode" etc) but it is very real.

Marla64

thanks, Robin and Jilly-- I really want to get this message out. I know a lot of people will ignore it. I did for over a year. My friend on here warned me almost a year ago that based on what she was learning from Tom Venuto in his Burn Fat, Feed Muscle program-- or whatever it's called-- that I needed more calories. I didn't want to listen.

I was training for a half marathon, running 15-20 miles a week, then moved on to Insanity-- and kept my caloric base at 1400. Since I was not only in a plateau, but beginning to gain, it'd freak me out and I'd cut to 1200 for a week, then bounce up to 1600 or 1800-- but, my needs still weren't being met.

At the time, my basal metabolic rate was, yes, 1471. But that's what my body needs never getting out of bed.

With all the exercise I was getting, my caloric needs at the time were actually 2300-2500--

Yes, I was eating my exercise calories back in, but still not nearly enough nutrition-- and I'm paying the price.

I want to share this, but am deciding where and with whom. There is so much misinformation on this site, and I know in a lot of cases I'll be talking to walls.

Let me get this straight. Are you seriously telling me you survived on that level of calories coupled with a high exercise volume for well over a year? Please tell me that you had at least 3 or so breaks from your diet at that time where you ate at maintenance and cut back the exercise. Please tell me that you allowed yourself a free meal once a week or so and maybe a refeed day as well?

If you didn't....damn. I am sure that would be considered as torture under Article 3 of the ECHR. Sorry to be sexist but what is it with women? Do they see it as a badge of honour to see who can be the most miserable for the longest amount of time? If you told me I had to follow the plan that you did I honestly think I would cry...and the last time I cried was when I watched Bambi as a kid.

I would wholeheartedly endorse "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" by Tom Venuto. I have consulted it many, many times over the years. This is what he has to say about starvation mode:

http://www.burnthefat.com/starvation_mode.html

Anyone who says starvation mode doesn't exist needs to take a hike. Yes, the concept is poorly applied sometimes ("if you miss one meal or breakfast you are in starvation mode" etc) but it is very real.

I'm loving the stuff you're posting-- thanks again for a great link. I'll have to make time to devour it later.

You know, yes, I did survive at that. I didn't eat rabbit food. I have 9 kids, and operated on a very tight budget. So, I lost 47 pounds eating 1400 calories of "real" food-- peanut butter and jelly, spaghetti-- whatever I fixed for the family, I had to eat. Tons of boxed crap-- and then right towards the end of my down streak, just as I was 3 pounds from goal, I'd just gotten out of a "rice cake, and yogurt" kick-- plain yogurt, berries, a tablespoon of granola--

And yes, we women are idiots-- go ahead and be sexist. Let me share with you what my husband wrote to me today from work--

"Hey,

Just wanted to tell you how bad I feel for you about killing your metabolism. Hope it comes back.

I am reminded of (the apostle) Paul who used the phrase…”a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge”. You had a zeal for weight loss, but not according to knowledge….LOL. In both cases, zeal without knowledge is DANGEROUS!

Love you. "

Dangerous, also, to generalize and speak on behalf of all women, but personally-- I'd become so driven to reach goal, so proud of my loss, so happy to be thin and fit, that I threw all caution to the wind. I took at face value this site in particular, and what it said I needed to eat if I wanted to lose X amount of weight. I exercised, and then would ramp it up as the weight loss slowed down-- but never refed my body.

Along the way, yes, I'd have higher caloric days, but not many. And even when I did, I'd log them to be accountable. I never, ever wanted to go back to being the fat chick-- and now freakin' look at me....grumble.

Barring any medical reason (doctor called today that all ovarian cysts have dissolved, so they're not the problem, either) my TSH is back in normal limits, I don't have cancer, blah, blah, blah-- seems this is it. I blew my metabolism to hell.

Really, really appreciate your links-- thanks so much.

virginiagomes

tfs

janesmith1

My gawd this is what is going on with me. I was doing great, had a binge in January. then last week, was down lower, had a binge, I believe my metabolism got screwed up from eating over 3k cals. So I went back down on my cal counts, and my weight's been going up up up!

I just had a snack after reading this, a slice of cheddar and a cracker. I was thinking that I might possibly be going into starvation mode.....

I'm not binging, I was feeling hungry but would normally just not eat this late. However, after reading this article...wow. I just went, bingo this is what's wrong with me, I need to have something to eat. Plus I exercised today.

loupammac

Thank you for sharing your story. This needs to be read by every new MFP member when they join. Best wishes for your recovery. :flowerforyou:

wenders123

So glad you have shared your experience with us, and I hope people heed this information.

I also hope that your body gets back to normal and you can continue trying to acheive your goals :flowerforyou:

myofibril

I think in the interests of balance it should be pointed out that, as I said above, the concept of starvation mode is usually poorly applied. It's not like a light switch where if you eat under 1,200 calories your body suddenly decides to go into starvation mode, or if you miss a meal that happens or even if you have plateaued it is caused by this.

It is much more likely whne it comes to plateaus that people have forgotten that as you lose weight the number of calories you need to maintain weight is reduced accordingly, under reporting of true calorie intake and / or over estimating of calories burned through exercise, water / glycogen issues masking fat loss on the scale. There is a misconception that fat loss stalls altogether in "starvation mode" when in reality it doesn't. It simply becomes a lot harder and requires proportionally much more effort to do so in comparison to a "lifestyle diet."

That is not to say that people who chronically underfeed their bodies or restrict energy intake for many months don't suffer the effects of starvation mode. I think that it certainly does happen but just not as commonly as people may think.

A starvation type diet will work to reduce weight in the short term. It is undeniable that people will and do experience this. However that isn't saying much. ALL diets which somehow make you operate at a calorie deficit will cause weight loss.

In my view the success of a diet isn't actually about what happens whilst you are undertaking it or even about the amount of weight you lose (I know I'm sounding a bit crazy here but bear with me....) The success of a diet is about what happens when you come OFF it. The real prize is maintenance. A good diet provides the building blocks for a long term ability to maintain weight at a stable level for years to come, not just a few weeks (unless you are puposefully dieting down for a specific event and do not care about putting on weight after that eg an athlete making a weight class, looking good on your wedding day etc)

The problem with the excessively low calorie approach (especially if it is coupled with a high exercise volume) is the remarkably poor finishing position it leaves you in. Your metabolic rate has a much sharper adaptive reduction to BMR in comparison in comparison to a slow and steady diet. In addition your body becomes much more efficient at fat storage due to changes in hormone levels. The end result is that the vast majority of crash dieters will end up regaining all the fat they lost prior to their diet and then some. You can circumvent this by being sticking to very low calories for the rest of your life and maintaining high levels of exercise if you wish. That doesn't sound like much fun to me or even realistic in the long term.

If you love and respect your body it will love and respect you back. If you treat it poorly and try to beat it into submission then expect a fight. You will probably lose...

JillyCornwall

Bump

anna_b1

Thanks for sharing. I'm so sorry you had to go through this.

This is a very timely message. Just this week, I lost a MFP friend because a few of her mutual friends and I tried to convince this friend not to minimize his/her caloric intake any further than 800-900 calories. For the record, this friend has asked for advice, but I don't think he/she was truly ready to hear it.

Your story is so relevant to so many of us. Please take care.

Marla64

I think in the interests of balance it should be pointed out that, as I said above, the concept of starvation mode is usually poorly applied. It's not like a light switch where if you eat under 1,200 calories your body suddenly decides to go into starvation mode, or if you miss a meal that happens or even if you have plateaued it is caused by this.

It is much more likely whne it comes to plateaus that people have forgotten that as you lose weight the number of calories you need to maintain weight is reduced accordingly, under reporting of true calorie intake and / or over estimating of calories burned through exercise, water / glycogen issues masking fat loss on the scale. There is a misconception that fat loss stalls altogether in "starvation mode" when in reality it doesn't. It simply becomes a lot harder and requires proportionally much more effort to do so in comparison to a "lifestyle diet."

That is not to say that people who chronically underfeed their bodies or restrict energy intake for many months don't suffer the effects of starvation mode. I think that it certainly does happen but just not as commonly as people may think.

A starvation type diet will work to reduce weight in the short term. It is undeniable that people will and do experience this. However that isn't saying much. ALL diets which somehow make you operate at a calorie deficit will cause weight loss.

In my view the success of a diet isn't actually about what happens whilst you are undertaking it or even about the amount of weight you lose (I know I'm sounding a bit crazy here but bear with me....) The success of a diet is about what happens when you come OFF it. The real prize is maintenance. A good diet provides the building blocks for a long term ability to maintain weight at a stable level for years to come, not just a few weeks (unless you are puposefully dieting down for a specific event and do not care about putting on weight after that eg an athlete making a weight class, looking good on your wedding day etc)

The problem with the excessively low calorie approach (especially if it is coupled with a high exercise volume) is the remarkably poor finishing position it leaves you in. Your metabolic rate has a much sharper adaptive reduction to BMR in comparison in comparison to a slow and steady diet. In addition your body becomes much more efficient at fat storage due to changes in hormone levels. The end result is that the vast majority of crash dieters will end up regaining all the fat they lost prior to their diet and then some. You can circumvent this by being sticking to very low calories for the rest of your life and maintaining high levels of exercise if you wish. That doesn't sound like much fun to me or even realistic in the long term.

If you love and respect your body it will love and respect you back. If you treat it poorly and try to beat it into submission then expect a fight. You will probably lose...

Absolutely-- I know the words are thrown about willy-nilly, and because they're so often used, people tend to disregard it. As my endocrinologist explained, layman's terms, my genes finally took over. I'd burned enough body fat, still exercising 5 days a week, living on rice cakes and plain yogurt at the time (following a year of solid loss on 1400 calories) and it finally just pulled a Robot from Lost in Space...."Danger, Danger!!"

I just didn't understand the message at first, and when a friend here explained it to me, I couldn't bring myself to eat 2000+ calories for fear I'd gain more. If I'm gaining on 1400, why would I want to raise my calories?

Anyway-- early report so far, and I mean early-- I'm only just entering day 4 of the raised calories-- I'm down 2.5 pounds from Sunday morning. I know a lot of it's water, blah, blah, blah-- and I don't expect to keep up that rate of loss.

However, what has me encouraged is I nearly doubled my caloric intake the past 3 days, and I lost weight. I'm doing the P90x program, and make sure I drink a protein shake immediately after, and did the same after a run Sunday night-- need to let my body know that there is nothing to fear.

I am reminded of the scripture verse-- "I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made." Our bodies are amazing. And yes, as you said, when we learn to love and respect them, it will be returned. amazing stuff.

Have a great day-- thanks to all for your kind words.

catherine1979

Thank you so much for sharing this story. I hope you can find the right balance for your body.

pyro13g

THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY!!! And I'd be willing to bet your metabolism recovers.

mikeyrp

Can I echo everyone thanks for posting this... Being (fairly) new to MFP and keen to loose weight quickly, along with enjoying using the gym, there was a very good chance I might fall into the same trap.

Now it will not happen - Target Cals is now just that, not a Max or Min!

kwardklinck

God love you sweetie. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I hope it turns around for you.

JillyCornwall

Oh Maria that is such good news to hear, it may be early days but it shows that your amazing body CAN recover.......

mmtiernan

First off, I want to say how incredibly brave I think you are for posting this and that I admire not only your original dedication, but also your continued dedication to growth in knowledge needed to get yourself back on the right track. That all takes tremendous courage and I absolutely applaud all of your efforts, including the courage that it took just to share all of this with everyone here.

I am so glad that you kept going to doctors and finally found someone (your endocrinologist) who could point you back in the right direction. I am hoping that you have also sought some guidance for your current and future caloric intake? I noticed that you are using P90X, which has a nutrition guide that contains that Harris-Benedict equation for figuring out how many calories you should be consuming. If you don't have the nutrition guide, here is a web page that walks through the calculation in layman's terms: http://wellnessword.com/blog/fitness-nutrition/how-to-calculate-bmr/ Note that you will need to recalculate again when your weight and/or exercise levels change significantly - which is possibly the adjustment that you missed initially. I hope you find this helpful.

I know you are going to make it. You are determined, smart and nothing if not tenacious! And now you are gaining more knowledge - a definite recipe for success.

Thanks again for sharing your story - all my best wishes to you!

SweetTeaBlossom

Thank you so much for your honesty. You're very brave.

It's easy for all of us to get caught up in trying to "fix" the damage we done of becoming overweight by cutting too many calories/undereating. Your story showed us why we shouldn't do that. Good luck.

snockers3112

When I joined MFP and completed all the information, I chose sedentary as my lifestyle as I only walk to work and back each day and at work I sit all day...MFP calculated I should keep to 1200 calories a day...is that calculation wrong?

lauriedav

Wow! So sad... I appreciate you sharing this with us. What will you do now? I hope there is a solution for you.
Hugs, Laurie

pyro13g

When I joined MFP and completed all the information, I chose sedentary as my lifestyle as I only walk to work and back each day and at work I sit all day...MFP calculated I should keep to 1200 calories a day...is that calculation wrong?

How far is the walk and how brisk? Double check what MFP says with another calculator.

snockers3112

When I joined MFP and completed all the information, I chose sedentary as my lifestyle as I only walk to work and back each day and at work I sit all day...MFP calculated I should keep to 1200 calories a day...is that calculation wrong?

How far is the walk and how brisk? Double check what MFP says with another calculator.

About 25 mins each way, so I just log 40 mins a day as I always think this site over calculates walking

biellas

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I genuinely hope it turns around for you since you've worked so hard. Your story will spare many people the pain of going through the same thing. I wish you all the best.