Starvation Mode is Real, and ugly

DeeDeeLHF

Marla and Banks, thanks for the answers!!

Marla, there have been so many times I have thought, "I should go to the doctor for this." only to turn around and never go. Why? Because they just don't always listen. I really like me doctor but she is too busy.

My brother was diagnosed with MS and for 4 years prior to his diagnosis he went from doctor to doctor and also a couple of chiropractors trying to figure out what was wrong. He even asked them point blank if they thought he might have MS and they all told him he was too young, etc. Well, finally one listened enough to run the test and bingo...it is what he has. What is so sad about it is that for 4 years he so rapidly declined and that could have been prevented with earlier treatment. We live in Western New York and this is a huge area for MS. You would think they would have picked up on it.

I can't believe the doctor treated you like that!

I do understand the financial constraints. Aldi's is my favorite store but so much of their food is processed. It is a chore to find ways of eating pure on a tight budget.

I also want to assure you that in none of my stuff did I ever mean any offense. I am just so confused at times and it seems like I should be able to eat more.

Banks, I would love a bodybugg or mediafit!!! You can rent them...maybe I should try one of their two week deals. At least then I would have an idea. Another member on here had one and she said she can vary in her calorie burn (without exercise) by 200 in any given day. We really do not know what we actually burn. Even HRM are not always accurate.

There was a time in my life when I was younger that I ate really well (primal and raw). I ate as much as I wanted and seemed to eat all day long. I weighed 102#! I really do think nutrition makes a difference.


What about adrenal fatigue? Could that be an issue? Unemployment has a way of sending stress levels through the roof! (I know!!)



Well, Marla, along with many children, homeschooling, enduring the trials of life with a great attitude, you are on my list of heroes!:flowerforyou:

Marla64

Heck, Donna-- you said nothing remotely offensive. No worries. I just wanted to make it clear that, holy Hannah, I have no idea about any of this.

Aldi's is beginning to carry a bit better stuff in their Fit and Active line, but still very processed. Their produce department is growing, too, which is nice. Between there and Sam's Club, I'm able to stock up on payday with better food.

This doctor wasn't as bad as some I've had during this long year. Some just flat out blew me off. I called one back after getting a satisfactory TSH test back. She sent me a letter saying, "Your test results came back fine. I hope you continue to feel well."

Yo-- dope-- I came to you BECAUSE I'm not feeling well. Don't give me your stupid standard form letters. So I called her and requested a Free t4 test as well, after learning she didn't perform one the first time. TSH tests can be wrong, I'd learned, blah, blah, blah-- she flat out refused. Told me I should have asked for one in the first appointment. I told her I wasn't aware that it was my job to make sure she did her job.

She ended up politely hanging up on me-- if there is such a thing.

Next doctor just gave me the "Well, you're getting older, Mrs. Brown" bullcrap. Smack. Yeah, I know, I'm getting older. And suddenly, with no change in diet or exercise my body is converting everything to fat, and putting on weight? 30 pounds in 9 months? Helloooooooo??????

After 4 doctors, I found one who took me seriously. She really, actually, allowed me to tell her to do her job. Okay, now look for this. Great, now look for that. Super, now look for the other thing.

Long road--

I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Doctors don't all suck. Just far too many of them.

need to hit the hay-- wayyy tired--

Banks, thanks again--

Body's feeling and looking tighter tonight-- charting the facial muscles, too-- bloating isn't as bad on my cheekbones, it seems. Slow and steady will win the race, I hope.

Later.

ladyhawk00

Heck, Donna-- you said nothing remotely offensive. No worries. I just wanted to make it clear that, holy Hannah, I have no idea about any of this.

Aldi's is beginning to carry a bit better stuff in their Fit and Active line, but still very processed. Their produce department is growing, too, which is nice. Between there and Sam's Club, I'm able to stock up on payday with better food.

This doctor wasn't as bad as some I've had during this long year. Some just flat out blew me off. I called one back after getting a satisfactory TSH test back. She sent me a letter saying, "Your test results came back fine. I hope you continue to feel well."

Yo-- dope-- I came to you BECAUSE I'm not feeling well. Don't give me your stupid standard form letters. So I called her and requested a Free t4 test as well, after learning she didn't perform one the first time. TSH tests can be wrong, I'd learned, blah, blah, blah-- she flat out refused. Told me I should have asked for one in the first appointment. I told her I wasn't aware that it was my job to make sure she did her job.

She ended up politely hanging up on me-- if there is such a thing.

Next doctor just gave me the "Well, you're getting older, Mrs. Brown" bullcrap. Smack. Yeah, I know, I'm getting older. And suddenly, with no change in diet or exercise my body is converting everything to fat, and putting on weight? 30 pounds in 9 months? Helloooooooo??????

After 4 doctors, I found one who took me seriously. She really, actually, allowed me to tell her to do her job. Okay, now look for this. Great, now look for that. Super, now look for the other thing.

Long road--

I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Doctors don't all suck. Just far too many of them.

need to hit the hay-- wayyy tired--

Banks, thanks again--

Body's feeling and looking tighter tonight-- charting the facial muscles, too-- bloating isn't as bad on my cheekbones, it seems. Slow and steady will win the race, I hope.

Later.

Thanks for the updates, as always, Marla. Cheering you on! :flowerforyou:

123nikki123

BUMP! Thank you and I'm so sorry that you are going through this, it sadens me :frown: I hope everyone reads this!

Marla64

Thanks, everyone-- I've been reading and researching online and am actually very encouraged to see that "metabolic damage" can be reversed.

I'm sure the words "starvation mode" are what get such an emotional response from people.

That's what we use in diet circles. They're bandied about here and there in the threads when folks are in a plateau, and the words receive much contempt from a lot of people.

The bottom line is metabolic damage, I'm reading. And it's not something that occurs quickly. It's over time. Mine took two years of insufficient calories with tons of cardio.

However, while the words may be controversial, the concept is indeed real.

I read last night that weight training is essential in telling your body to keep whatever muscle that hasn't already been erroneously burned, and in beginning to build new muscle tissue-- that lean body mass is the engine that drives the metabolism. Further, that women generally don't want to do that because we don't want to bulk up. And reluctance to do that will make a slow process even slower.

Thankfully, with the P90x, there is weight training. I'm hoping it's enough. I'm working through the lean program.

Banks, if you're familiar with the program, what do you think of the lean routine versus classic in lieu of what I posted above?

In any event-- again, this is real. I saw one idiot post a rather hostile thread yesterday "starvation mode is a myth." I didn't even bother to jump in and share the link to this thread. You know, yeah, okay, whatever-- if one is going into it with such an emotional position, it would be moot to enter into the fray. And again, I'm not interested in being a poster child.

But, if by sharing this, it helps to get the message out to people willing to hear it and learn from it, great-- I won't say it will all have been worth it, but at least not in vain.

Later--

DeeDeeLHF

Marla, it is a really emotional issue!! That is what my original post sort of meant. I hate seeing the high emotion with this issue.

In "defense' of those who say it is a myth...there are tons of sites that support that idea. When people are going to their doctors and the first thing the doctor does is put them on a low carb, low fat, really low calorie diet, what are they to think??

I think this is why your story is sooooo important. People need to see a face (sorry for the poster board image ) to go with the information. When they see that one of their own (mfp) has suffered from this, then they will see and believe.

For us 40+ woman it is so very confusing. We have so many factors to deal with that it is hard to find the right key. (hormones, adrenals and stress, age, slower metabolism, a go-go-go- lifestyle...).

For myself, I have raised calories, lowered calories, worked out hard, worked out moderate, zig-zagged, high protein, eating clean...I have done it all. I thought I had done it all before joining MFP because I had done, WW, SlimFast, Cabbage Soup, Atkins, etc, but then you learn even more!!!

The only things I know for sure that work for me, and I mean "me", is eating whole foods, avoiding processed, avoiding refined sugars, and moderate exercise, 5-6 times per week. That I can do. But whether my net calories should be 1100 or 1600 I am still confused!!:laugh: :laugh:

Here is to all of us, who never quit!:drinker:

Marla64

Here is to all of us, who never quit!:drinker:

Saaaa-lute!

myofibril

I read last night that weight training is essential in telling your body to keep whatever muscle that hasn't already been erroneously burned, and in beginning to build new muscle tissue-- that lean body mass is the engine that drives the metabolism. Further, that women generally don't want to do that because we don't want to bulk up. And reluctance to do that will make a slow process even slower.

Thankfully, with the P90x, there is weight training. I'm hoping it's enough. I'm working through the lean program.

Banks, if you're familiar with the program, what do you think of the lean routine versus classic in lieu of what I posted above?

I'm sure your friend Banks will be able to assist you in this matter and he seems to know his stuff in this regard.

However, I have an interest in training myself so thought I would share my views. I think a program like P90x will be of assistance as long as it is done properly and you work with the right degree of intensity.

I haven't looked into P90x in great detail but it is suspiciously like any other metabolic conditioning training routines out there. It does seem to be quite well put together and comparable to a leading programme such as Turbulence Training. These are morphed versions of good old fashioned circuit training.

Circuits mix up strength work with cardio work, anaerobic with aerobic. What this means is you will see an improvement in muscle efficiency and growth to some degree if you put enough effort and intensity into it to ensure your muscles are overloaded. If you slack off it will simply become another long low intensity cardio workout and you won't get the benefits you want out of it.

I'm not a huge fan of this type of programme but that's mostly because I find it more efficient to train in the way I do and I am used to it.

I have to ask this though: in the last two years or so of this diet rollercoaster have you ever given yourself a full break from dieting / exercising at ANY point? By this I mean you have eating at maintenance and reduced exercising to a bare minimum (maybe once or twice a week) for 2-4 weeks or so? If not, I think that would be beneficial for you. It will allow your body to "reset" itself, hormone levels to restore to normal etc. Yes, you total weight may spike a bit but in the long term it will be beneficial as it puts you in a stronger position to lose more fat and keep it off.

SHBoss1673

Hi Marla,

Unfortunately I haven't done the lean version of P90X, but I did do 2 rounds of the classic. It's a decent, moderate exercise program. By that I mean it's probably slightly to advanced for the beginning exerciser, but probably not good enough for someone who's in very good shape. anyway, it does plenty in the way of lean tissue work and anaerobic work, and it's decent at the cardio side (not great, but not bad). As far as workout programs go, it compromises somewhat to hit all the major areas, which is fine with me if you want a canned program. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What I don't recommend is their nutrition, it's brutally bad IMHO, I won't get any further into that unless you want me to.
Oh and the Plyometrics day, yeah, that's my specialty in Personal Training (I'm something of a plyo guru), it's not REALLY plyometric, or not very much at least. Plyo is designed to overtax muscles quickly and force them to work to 100% of maximum power, the P90X version really doesn't do that very well, although it's not bad as a semi-HIIT routine. I've heard insanity does the plyo thing very well though. I don't really feel like spending the money for another canned program when I can absolutely kill myself without any outside help at all (see Tabata protocol)

Hope this helps Marla

AKHerring

Thank you for sharing your story, I am so sorry you have to go through this. =[

Marla64

I read last night that weight training is essential in telling your body to keep whatever muscle that hasn't already been erroneously burned, and in beginning to build new muscle tissue-- that lean body mass is the engine that drives the metabolism. Further, that women generally don't want to do that because we don't want to bulk up. And reluctance to do that will make a slow process even slower.

Thankfully, with the P90x, there is weight training. I'm hoping it's enough. I'm working through the lean program.

Banks, if you're familiar with the program, what do you think of the lean routine versus classic in lieu of what I posted above?

I'm sure your friend Banks will be able to assist you in this matter and he seems to know his stuff in this regard.

However, I have an interest in training myself so thought I would share my views. I think a program like P90x will be of assistance as long as it is done properly and you work with the right degree of intensity.

I haven't looked into P90x in great detail but it is suspiciously like any other metabolic conditioning training routines out there. It does seem to be quite well put together and comparable to a leading programme such as Turbulence Training. These are morphed versions of good old fashioned circuit training.

Circuits mix up strength work with cardio work, anaerobic with aerobic. What this means is you will see an improvement in muscle efficiency and growth to some degree if you put enough effort and intensity into it to ensure your muscles are overloaded. If you slack off it will simply become another long low intensity cardio workout and you won't get the benefits you want out of it.

I'm not a huge fan of this type of programme but that's mostly because I find it more efficient to train in the way I do and I am used to it.

I have to ask this though: in the last two years or so of this diet rollercoaster have you ever given yourself a full break from dieting / exercising at ANY point? By this I mean you have eating at maintenance and reduced exercising to a bare minimum (maybe once or twice a week) for 2-4 weeks or so? If not, I think that would be beneficial for you. It will allow your body to "reset" itself, hormone levels to restore to normal etc. Yes, you total weight may spike a bit but in the long term it will be beneficial as it puts you in a stronger position to lose more fat and keep it off.

Thank you for replying-- actually you were the "other smart dude that posted the links" that I referred to yesterday-- thanks for your time.

As for a break from all of this-- if there's such a thing as "depression" I would say I hit one beginning of this year battling all this nonsense, and getting no answers from doctors, et cetera. Feeling a bit defeated, my exercise had tapered off to maybe 1-2 days a week as a result. I haven't stopped counting calories since June of '08, so, no, I haven't taken a break from that.

Like Donna mentioned, I'd try zig-zagging daily, lowering it for a couple weeks to 1200, then up to 1600 for a couple of weeks-- hell, I even tried a 4 day veggie juice fast last summer and still didn't drop an ounce. That's when I knew something was really wrong. Who drinks nothing but V8 for a week, doing Insanity, and doesn't lose?

Banks-- I have Insanity, too, and the plyometrics are, well, insane. A bit too insane. Even as fit as I was in the summer, it totally kicked me in the *kitten*. The lean version, though, doesn't bring the plyo into play-- at least not the calendar I've found. I'll have to do more research today as I have time. As a busy mom, and not terribly creative, while I can and do push myself, I enjoy and rather benefit from someone in front of me telling me what to do next. So, the canned programs help me.

I enjoy running, too, because it forces me to push myself and truly see what I'm made of. I'm not just responding to somebody in front of me telling me "Come on, one more!" I'm heeding my inner self saying, "One more," and fighting with her when she says, "I can't." Oh, yes, I can!

Mr. 74, I have learned to push myself and to enjoy pushing myself, and that "I can't or I don't want to" is not an option. So, for me P90x has been good. Horton pushes, too. He gives the caveat of "do your best, forget the rest," which of course lends the freedom to lay back a bit, but I try not to.

I'm going to research a bit later and see the differences between classic and lean, and find out what's better for me. Briefly I came to believe that the lean helps weight loss more so it's what I concentrated on. But, hubs and I have been talking, and that's rather what got me into the mess I'm in-- worrying about weight.

So I'll have to keep thinking on it--

For right now, I'm starving so need to go eat!!!!!!!

thanks again, sooooooo much!!!

smilebhappy

Wow......Thank you for sharing!
I am so sorry that you have to go thru this & pray that things will turn around for you soon :flowerforyou:

Marla64

Okay-- when you tire of this, just drop off-- but, I'm going to keep documenting, for better or worse.

Pictures on the left were my first ones posted here, one week after beginning this new portion of my health journey.

Ones on the right are from this morning.



Bit of change, I think-- a bit tighter. Two plus weeks of good nutrition. Hopeful.

spaniel

Marla,
Thank you for your very informative post. I spent the entire year of 2010 logging every bit of food and exercising religiously...I gained 5 pounds!!! My BMR measured 1027, but I am not so sure that measurement was accurate for as active as I am. My hubby has been telling me for years that I don't eat enough. And, I (like you) have had the same response from the endocrinologist, dietician, etc. This month, I am investing in a bodybugg mediafit to determine my 24 hour calorie burn on a normal day. Here's hoping
Good luck in your weight loss journey!!

Marla64

Spaniel -- thanks for the kind words.

Three weeks, and the weight is unchanged. Still not sweating it. I've been bouncing down 2, up two-- which isn't unusual to begin with. After freaking for over a year, afraid to raise out of 1400 calories because I was gaining ON 1400 calories, I am beyond giggly that the weight is unchanged on 2200 calories.

Differences and changes continue, for the better. I got out of my husband's car yesterday at the store with ease. I had gotten so weak, that getting up out of his car was a killer. I assumed that it was just because of the extra weight I was carrying, and totally looked and felt like the helpless fat lady that can't get out of her own way.

Going up the stairs into my home was a chore-- every step was like my legs were in jello. And again, mind you, my exercise hadn't stopped, so there was no reason why I should have been weak-- in my mind. Duhhhhhh--

My body composition right now is much different. The bags and bags of floppy, loose fat that have been accumulating all over are tightening up. Muscles being refed? Sounds reasonable.

I'm still marveling at what I did to my body-- eating 1200-1400 calories, training for a half marathon, weight training-- and never, ever refeeding, refueling. It's just insane. No wonder my body simply went on strike.

Still a long way to go, but way enthused about what's happened so far. Having my strength back is wonderful.

Eat, my friends-- eat!

Marla64

Updated facial report-- again, drop off when you wish. This is important for me to document this. I've noted that the wrinkles around my mouth are better, too-- better muscle tone, again, I guess? Eyes seem a bit better.

Husband has also commented on my, uh, girlie parts, that they are packing more of a punch these days-- less floppy sackish, if ya know what I'm saying. Not smart enough to describe and define what's going on in my body, except to theorize that muscle is being refed?

again, gentlemen, I welcome any thoughts and insights.

This is at the peak of feeling like crap, as I was still trying to find answers from the doctor--

And these are my lovely body shots at the height of the trouble--

Up from this, at my peak of fitness--



Again-- no change in activity, no change in diet to get me from point A to point Z. No medical issues outside of Hashimoto's, but I'm on synthroid.

Eat, my friends-- eat those freakin' calories.

Until next week!!!!!

Lisa__Michelle

I try to keep my net at the very least 1200 calories even if it means I have to eat 1700 calories that day to eat my exercise calories back. I usually aim for a net of 1300-1450 but 1200 is definitely my minimum because it is common sense that you can starve yourself doing something like this long term. Starvation mode only DOESN'T apply to people who eat at maintenance level consistently and then decide to barely eat one day (you won't starve). Everyone on MFP needs to realize that starvation mode IS real for us since we are consistenly eating below maintenance level day after day.

Marla64

I try to keep my net at the very least 1200 calories even if it means I have to eat 1700 calories that day to eat my exercise calories back. I usually aim for a net of 1300-1450 but 1200 is definitely my minimum because it is common sense that you can starve yourself doing something like this long term. Starvation mode only DOESN'T apply to people who eat at maintenance level consistently and then decide to barely eat one day (you won't starve). Everyone on MFP needs to realize that starvation mode IS real for us since we are consistenly eating below maintenance level day after day.

Yes, right-- this happened to me over an 18 month period of time.

DeeDeeLHF

Marla! Happy Monday! In the midst of school today we would all love an update!! This is fascinating and I am so very proud of you!!

I have increased my calories (1400 net) now for two weeks with no weight gain that I can really see. I do feel better and what I keep noticing is how loose my skinny clothes are.

D

Becca_007

Thanks Marla for opening up and sharing your life & struggles with us regarding this, so we can learn from it!:flowerforyou: Coming back later to read a few of the other links shared by msf74 & others

Becca