StrongLifts 5x5

JNick77

Dude, Matt Kroczaleski is a friggin' BEAST!!! Ever see the video of him doing one-arm DB rows with 200lbs on the DB? He did a set of 20 reps I believe, so much for not doing volume, eh? I believe he trains at EFS to right? Even the EFS guys, professional powerlifters, do some isolation work. Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 manual specifically advocates doing assistance work. I haven't read it in a few months but I believe he advocated 5 sets of 10 reps or something like that.

EuroDriver

not sure with who or where he trains.. in the magazine where they interviewed him he was saying he trains trains at home, his brother is a welder so when they get scrap metal they weld on custom barbell weights, dumbells etc... his deadlift bar is long metal bar with 2 truck tires welded on weighing in at 605lbs and he pumps out 10 reps in 95 degree humid weather... i tried to find a picture of him doing lunges INSANE!!! goes out in the winter with a with a 200lb light post cut log.. does 50 lunges 25 each, if his rear knee doesnt touch the ground he doesnt count it followed by 20 *kitten* to ground squats. (i thought you guys said he should just do 5... should ask him.. :S ) to fuel a beast that size you need 500g of protein and 500g of carbs a day!!

Would love to upload the magazine or show you guys

Here is a rep to his 40-rep squat.. you start heavy and drop set until you vomit... check out his youtube video.. (again high rep damn i wonder why he did the high rep instead of 5 reps all the time..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KkvrVq_0CM Copy and paste the link watch the whole thing.. he just dropps n then sits with a bucket...

just for fun, Derek Poundstones workout... i think im counting wrong but hes going way over 5 reps..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms8jcc8npZY
this guy blends chicken breast, eggs, water, protein and makes that his shakes for work <--grossss

Ill be taking advice from these guys for now until i see you deadlift the back of my car for 16reps :P

JNick77

Curling doesn't build bicep mass and strength?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF_rWAYJS6M&amp;feature=related

Here's the rowing video I'm referring to,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7jAIdoORxI

Recent article from Lee Boyce on arm training:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/7_surprising_tips_for_bigger_arms&cr=

EuroDriver

I think we wont get a reply...

N seen the rows its awsome!!!

JNick77

I think we wont get a reply...

N seen the rows its awsome!!!

Did you realize he was shifting gears to bodybuilding? Wow! I saw picture of him at sub-10% bodyfat and he is ripped as hell.

thkelly

poundstone does some awesome lifts. that guy is crazy strong.

BR1986FB

Deadlifts are valuable but if your goal is bigger biceps Deadlifts alone will not get you there.

Tell me WHERE someone said "deadlifts ALONE will get you there?" My point was that deadlifts are a better MASS builder because doing the compound movements will build OVERALL mass faster than an isolation movement. I don't get a pump from doing deadlifts in my biceps or my forearms. Sure, combined with the bent rows it will add bicep size.

My point was that you are going to build a bigger, more solid foundation than just doing isolation moves. StrongLifts are a MASS building program NOT a BODYBUILDING program. I'll still take deads over curls for the girls any day.

myofibril

I think it needs to be clarified that 5x5 is a methodology which can be incorporated into different programs (such as the Stronglifts version of it.) It can therefore be applied in various contexts.

Stronglifts is a good foundational programme which focuses on strength for a beginner. It is not the same as Bill Starr's original version in that it is not periodised into heavy, medium and light days which is more suitable for intermediate trainees.

My point is specificity. Your training should match your goals and your current level. SL 5x5 starts (quite correctly in my opinion) on the basis that for a beginner at least STRENGTH is the base which everything builds upon, be it in day to day life or sports conditioning. A BB routine where the trainee has never worked for strength is more limited to looks without as much of the additional benefits that true strength training brings. Fair enough looking good is all some people care about but that's certainly not the case for me and many others. I'll leave simply looking good to women...

The difference is where you start and where it takes you. You will get more overall benefits in starting on a strength programme and then switching to a BB routine than vice versa simply due to the functionality that strength brings.

Curls are great in the correct context. So are deads.

There's nothing to see here folks Move along please..

End6ame

Quote: all of the pro-curl posts.

No-one said that deads or anything else will build “bigger” arms than curls, we said that it is a better “mass” builder. And as I continue to state time and time again, mass and size are not the same thing; denser muscles are stronger than fluid inflated (pumped) muscles, period. If we are going to continue this one-sided debate (because no one is debating curls will not build more size) then please at least read what I write, instead of just glancing it over and continuing to make counter points to things that were never stated.

If you want to be a bodybuilder than by all means hit every muscle once a week by every conceivable angle and be satisfied with your nice easy Abercrombie training style. However if you want to build mass, power, and strength, then get under a heavy bar and make it happen.

EDIT:
My apologies for my tone. I personally think that bodybuilding is stupid but if you enjoy it, then more power to you.

BR1986FB

No-one said that deads or anything else will build “bigger” arms than curls, we said that it is a better “mass” builder.

And that was the WHOLE point of my comment. If I'm training someone who is just starting out who wants to put on MASS quickly, I tell them to do heavy, compound movements, not curls. You build your mass with the compound movements, then you can refine that mass with isolation exercises like curls to make the muscle more aesthetically pleasing if that's what you're going for. I personally have no use for curls but that's not to say they don't work for others.

End6ame

A chime-in from Mark Ripptoe:

"If you want to look like a bodybuilder, that's fine with me. That is a matter for you to discuss with your God and your psychologist. But even a bodybuilder is a novice strength trainee until he's an intermediate. The fastest way to gain muscular bodyweight -- the supposed goal of a bodybuilder -- is with a linear progression on the basic barbell exercises"

freerange

Here is some links to pictures of strongmen and bodybuilders and tell me which one looks better to you and which physic would you prefer! oh and who has "bigger,more mass and nicer" arms

LOL, I guess some people want to "LOOK" good, while others want to "BE" good. I'll take function over fancy ANYDAY.

hroush

Here is some links to pictures of strongmen and bodybuilders and tell me which one looks better to you and which physic would you prefer! oh and who has "bigger,more mass and nicer" arms

LOL, I guess some people want to "LOOK" good, while others want to "BE" good. I'll take function over fancy ANYDAY.

I concur. I have never been one for form over function.

End6ame

Here is some links to pictures of strongmen and bodybuilders and tell me which one looks better to you and which physic would you prefer! oh and who has "bigger,more mass and nicer" arms

LOL, I guess some people want to "LOOK" good, while others want to "BE" good. I'll take function over fancy ANYDAY.

I concur. I have never been one for form over function.

Agreed.

And here is a picture of Mariusz Pudzianowski, someone that trains for function (MMA and Strongman) and has won multiple World Strongest Man titles.

http://www.athlete.com/athlete_media_1/16448.jpg

freerange

And here is a picture of Mariusz Pudzianowski, someone that trains for function (MMA and Strongman) and has won multiple World Strongest Man titles.

http://www.athlete.com/athlete_media_1/16448.jpg

I didn't know Mariusz does MMA, I wouldn't want him to get ahold on me, that beast would break your neck in a rear naked.

freerange

A famous strongmen Matt Kroczaleski even wrote a article in the March 2011 Muscle & Fitness magazine about him not only training as a strongman but also as a bodybuilder because he does not want to end up looking like other strongmen as they are not symmetrical and don't look as "fit"

And here is one of the most famous strongmen of all times, man you're right he doesn't look fit at all LOL

http://strongestman.billhenderson.org/bios/jonpall.html

freerange

and more

http://strongestman.billhenderson.org/photos/jpkaz.jpg

freerange

And my fav, love the look in a kilt.

http://strongestman.billhenderson.org/pics2/jp1.jpg

End6ame

Dude, Matt Kroczaleski is a friggin' BEAST!!! Ever see the video of him doing one-arm DB rows with 200lbs on the DB? He did a set of 20 reps I believe, so much for not doing volume, eh? I believe he trains at EFS to right? Even the EFS guys, professional powerlifters, do some isolation work. Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 manual specifically advocates doing assistance work. I haven't read it in a few months but I believe he advocated 5 sets of 10 reps or something like that.

And to quote Wendler on assistance work:
“The biggest problem I’ve seen with this is people doing way too much. They do too many sets, or too many exercises. These lifts should compliment the training, not detract from it. People choose exercises for every body part, train them excessively, then wonder why they’re overtrained and not making any progress. When you’re choosing your assistance exercises, do yourself a favor and justify why you’re doing them. Don’t bull**** yourself. You must have a very strong reason for doing an exercise. If you don’t, scrap it and move on. Sometimes, instead of what you do in the weight room, it’s what you don’t do that will lead to success.”

On his program using no assistance work:
“I do this fairly often, and I’m sure it seems odd. I recently went to a commercial gym, warmed up, did my working sets and set a huge PR. I sat there for a little while, then decided to leave. As I was walking out, I looked around at the other people training, and I wondered whether anyone else had set a personal record that day. For my part, I know I walked out of there better than I did when I walked in.”

In all cases the primary focus is the core lift and he recommends a max of two to three assistance exercises (none of which out of his entire e-book are bicep curls by the way) that compliment the core lift. They are called assistance exercise because they're less effective and less important than the core lifts.

And let’s not forget the fact that 5/3/1 is an intermediate to advanced program, and advanced trainees need to train differently using more assistance work, periodization, longer progression schedules, etc… If you are not squatting and deadlifting above your bodyweight at an absolute minimum (ideally 1.5 to 2x BW, because you would be stupid to settle for monthly increases when you could still make daily or weekly increases), then you should not be doing 5/3/1 and if you do, then it proves you have no clue about training programming and progression.

JNick77

Dude, Matt Kroczaleski is a friggin' BEAST!!! Ever see the video of him doing one-arm DB rows with 200lbs on the DB? He did a set of 20 reps I believe, so much for not doing volume, eh? I believe he trains at EFS to right? Even the EFS guys, professional powerlifters, do some isolation work. Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 manual specifically advocates doing assistance work. I haven't read it in a few months but I believe he advocated 5 sets of 10 reps or something like that.

And to quote Wendler on assistance work:
“The biggest problem I’ve seen with this is people doing way too much. They do too many sets, or too many exercises. These lifts should compliment the training, not detract from it. People choose exercises for every body part, train them excessively, then wonder why they’re overtrained and not making any progress. When you’re choosing your assistance exercises, do yourself a favor and justify why you’re doing them. Don’t bull**** yourself. You must have a very strong reason for doing an exercise. If you don’t, scrap it and move on. Sometimes, instead of what you do in the weight room, it’s what you don’t do that will lead to success.”

On his program using no assistance work:
“I do this fairly often, and I’m sure it seems odd. I recently went to a commercial gym, warmed up, did my working sets and set a huge PR. I sat there for a little while, then decided to leave. As I was walking out, I looked around at the other people training, and I wondered whether anyone else had set a personal record that day. For my part, I know I walked out of there better than I did when I walked in.”

In all cases the primary focus is the core lift and he recommends a max of two to three assistance exercises (none of which out of his entire e-book are bicep curls by the way) that compliment the core lift. They are called assistance exercise because they're less effective and less important than the core lifts.

And let’s not forget the fact that 5/3/1 is an intermediate to advanced program, and advanced trainees need to train differently using more assistance work, periodization, longer progression schedules, etc… If you are not squatting and deadlifting above your bodyweight at an absolute minimum (ideally 1.5 to 2x BW, because you would be stupid to settle for monthly increases when you could still make daily or weekly increases), then you should not be doing 5/3/1 and if you do, then it proves you have no clue about training programming and progression.

Again, you're only focusing on the powerlifting aspect. Not everybody is into powerlifting. I have the book and he doesn't really address biceps and that's fine because that's not the goal of his book. He does say not to overdo Assistance work but he definitely doesn't say not to do it and he definitely does not indicate go heavy on the assistance work.

The point of our statement was addressing biceps and that deadlifts alone will not stimulate appreciable bicep growth. If you're following a straight powerlifting routine and you don't want to do bicep work that's fine, not a problem but DON'T kid yourself into thinking that deadlifts alone will do it. Now, Jim does advocate pull-ups / chin-ups and if you combine that with various back exercises that involves biceps then you might gain some bicep mass. If you want biceps in addition to the powerlifting then you need to take one of the days you're not doing 5/3/1 and do biceps. Don't need to do a ton, but some.

I did 5/3/1 for three months and it's a fine program but I found that it's not challenging enough for me. Based on this discussion I doubt you could match my work capacity in the gym.

You say I don't have a clue... All I see you do is regurgitate crap that's on the front page of the Stronglifts. I've spent 10 years reading books by Charles Poliquin, Eric Cressy, Chad Waterbury, Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Christian Thibideau. I promise you I have a clue and I think it's you that are tunnel-visioned yourself into one aspect of training and refuse to look past what you know and learn more.