the myth, starvation mode, and dont eat before bed.
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I still don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this. So you don't agree with him; fine, you are a free willed adult, you don't have to! But come on people, he is allowed to have his opinion! If you don't want to do things his way, then don't, simple as that. The way I see it, he posted about what he believes and has tried to back it up by explaining where he got his information from. Why should that offend people? There are a lot of things that I don't agree with being posted in the forums everyday, but they don't upset me and get me all worked up! I just shake my head, maybe post my opinion if I feel strongly enough and then move on with my life. It would be nice if everyone else could do the same.
And about those people who are worried that others might take this 'dangerous/bad/irresponsible' advice... People have their own brains, and can make their own decisions. Sure, some people might read this and think that eating 800cals or skipping breakfast is a good idea for them, and then find that it makes them gain or feel dizzy, lethargic etc... But then they can stop. Crisis averted. You can't sensor people just because some other people might make bad decisions based on what others say. We're all capable of higher order thinking... We're all capable of making our own decisions. So you can agree or disagree with ascriminal, that's fine, but don't get all hot and bothered because you are worried about what others might do because of what he says. Just worry about yourselves. Find what works for you and run with it, maybe post about it if you'd like to try and help others like ascriminal. Or debate the topic without insinuating (or outright saying) that people who agree with the information are somehow bad people for voicing their opinions. And most importantly... (and I say this to my students multiple times a day; I would hope that by the time they are adults they would know better) Just. Worry. About. Yourself. :flowerforyou:
Great song in your signature =D.
And there's a little more to it than you've posted, I think. We fundamentally disagree regarding ascriminal...but not for the reasons I think you would expect. It would be different if he posted up one post, with a controversial topic you know? What he's doing is trying to undermine the premise of this forum, which is safe, healthy dieting habits. That's where the question of censorship comes in. If you go to an all women's gym...the rules state that you must be a female to enter, correct? Well...I'm a male!!...and maybe I want to work out there too...but it's not allowed. It flies in the face of the premise of the gym...what makes it different if you will. The difference is, here it's people's health at stake. Yes I understand that the majority of us are free thinking adults as you put it (you know there are overweight 16 and 17 year olds here...maybe even younger right??), but at the same time...people are TOTALLY irrational about losing weight sometimes. To the level where anything that will feed their misguided desire to eat less to lose weight will be taken as gospel, particularly when presented with false credentials and lots of official sounding studies (which very few people take the time to read).
I think that's more the point of the people that are standing up to this post. He posts up a post...then spends ten pages defending it and back pedaling to explain how what everyone read it as is not what he meant.
Then why say it in the first place?
Cris
My sister is also using this site, and she is 15. Although she isn't gullible, I can't say as much for her friends.0 -
to long want to read later0
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blah blah blah blah blah, state something worth reading and something with meaning.
Oh cats got your tongue because I called you out on your illegitimate credentials?
Another thing, NASM, barely talks about nutrition, they give you the "jist of it" more of a one size fits all approach. What I have learned about nutrition came from my own personal research. You also said stuff about my weight. I have lost a ton of weight in the past over 100lbs. Yes I did gain most of it back. It wasn't due to my diet or nutritional habits. I "believe" i am not sure, but I think it was due to my extremely high intense exercise regimen I had. I stated in my profile I was training to go in to the navy BUD/S( BASIC Underwater Demolition/SEALs training ) basically a navy SEAL. It was too stressful for my body, and it broke me down. It wasn't even really that, I feel that was part of it. I was just in mexico, and the habits down there are different here in america. Talking about friend's and peer pressure. Friends who I have known all my life, since I was young, of course I want to hang out with them and stuff. They where a bunch of alcoholics. I just started to drink heavly, and I also had emotional issues due to a bad relationship. When I came back here to the US. Dietary patterns are a lot worse, I had nothing when I came back, because I was planning to go in to the military as I stated. I had no job, no money, no nothing. The dietary habits with the people I lived with weren't very healthy. As you can imagine my state of mind coming back from mexico, I just didn't care anymore about my physical condition so I let loose.
I do agree that my "current" physical appearance can throw people off.
Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.0 -
Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.
I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.
I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha0 -
I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.
I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha
The problem is...they've been 'lied to and misled' IN YOUR OPINION. The things you're declaiming are proven dieting strategies for healthy, safe weight loss. They WORK. Are they the absolutely most efficient?? Not necessarily...but no one has been 'lied to or misled'. Certainly some people misunderstand 'starvation mode' and so it is passed about somewhat incorrectly...BUT!!...no one will EVER get sick, or hurt themselves eating more than1200cal/day.
I think that's the majority of our point here...and is most certainly mine.
It's cool that you realize you could have said it differently...that's also 90% of what the argument's been about for the past however many pages. Too bad that disclaimer couldn't be added to the intial post.
Cris0 -
I live by the rule of eating at LEAST 1200 net calories a day, and it's been working wonderfully for me.
conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.
point is: calorie restriction leads to weight loss. that is fact.
good thread overall...0 -
This thread went crazy quick, but here are the facts.
1. Starvation Mode is not a myth - I've experienced it numerous times, and it's been documented in even more studies.
2. You can eat late and lose weight, I eat about 60-75% of my daily calories after 5pm.
3. We all need to be more open minded, what the mainstream is teaching isn't working.
4.While I do believe the ultimate factor is "calories in versus calories out", there is without a doubt in my mind a tremendous amount of other variables like hormones and metabolism that can either make it easier or harder to burn fat.
5. IF or Intermittent Fasting is eye opening and I do believe it works in the short-term. These guys are not doing starvation diets like HCG, they just don't eat for short periods of 24 hours but then eat a lot for the next 24 hours. (it's not for everyone, including myself)
6. Growth hormone is extremely important for fat-loss, it is very helpful for weight-loss to try and spike it.
7. Insulin slows down fat-burning
8. If eating a large breakfast increases insulin and decreases growth hormone, maybe we shouldn't do that???
9. Most of the people here are awesome and I believe trying to help one another
10.There is more than one way to lose weight successfully.0 -
conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.
It's really NOT necessary. Why go through mental and physical unpleasantness? Why not be the best you can be both mentally and physically?0 -
bump0
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Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.
I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.
I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha
I get what you're saying, I also see some truths behind what your original opinion was. I know I have some controversial dietary habits and beliefs myself. I also do agree with you that we are much less healthy than the days on Neanderthals as a whole. I actually wrote a paper on that. Sodium was virtually inaccessible, saturated fats were few and far between, etc. So I do agree with you on that. Also with the whole pushing your limits, I agree too- but I don't know if you read an earlier post by me, my little sister and a few of her friends have signed up for this site, and young girls especially will do anything to lose weight quickly. My 'passion' that has come through in many of my posts were solely because I was concerned that the youngin's on this site might read posts like yours and think they can eat next to nothing and be healthy. I think we both agree that when someone is only a few pounds overweight and are still growing (their freshman in high school, so 14 and 15), it is really important for them to eat balanced and enough, especially since a 15 year old metabolism is certainly a lot faster than a full grown adult. Also, I feel as if most 15 year old minds are not capable of understanding anything more than what is a healthy food and what is an unhealthy food, and if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight. I doubt they have the capacity to understand the intricate workings of mirco- nutrients, the human metabolism, hormones, the breaking down of amino acids, etc.
And to everyone who says "people should be smart enough to do what works for them, etc."-there and young and impressionable people on this site. I used to be one of them, which is why I suffered an eating disorder for quite a while. There are overweight people at every age. Any ADULT should be intelligent enough to know what will work for them.0 -
We did talk about this in email. That was just between you and me. No one knows what we said. So I'll state it here.1. Starvation Mode is not a myth - I've experienced it numerous times, and it's been documented in even more studies.
I said yes I do believe that the starvation mode can kick in. I believe its due to a low caloric diet without exercise. Also macro nutrient ratios are critical in this situation.
This is why I posted this subject.3. We all need to be more open minded, what the mainstream is teaching isn't working.
I totally agree on growth hormone. That's the purpose I eat the way I eat. To trigger growth hormone production. There are also anabolic that really haven't been mentioned such as testosterone, increasing levels with diet. Not sure if it's possible, heard it is. It's something I want to look in to. This will help with muscle mass and of course improve your BMR.,4.While I do believe the ultimate factor is "calories in versus calories out", there is without a doubt in my mind a tremendous amount of other variables like hormones and metabolism that can either make it easier or harder to burn fat.
6. Growth hormone is extremely important for fat-loss, it is very helpful for weight-loss to try and spike it.
7. Insulin slows down fat-burning.
I personally don't' care what people do with their diet. If they're getting results, no reason to change it. I mentioned this before, what you said. People are against this. They just follow authority blindly without thinking of it.8. If eating a large breakfast increases insulin and decreases growth hormone, maybe we shouldn't do that???
I think people who eat 6 times a day or how many meals they choose. I believe it works due to the fact, they are "satisfied" through the day. If they did get hungry, they want to eat, the more hungry they get, the more likely they will opt for a quick fix. Like go buy fast food because cooking would take to long. I have done that myself before many times.9. Most of the people here are awesome and I believe trying to help one another
10.There is more than one way to lose weight successfully.
I think this is most important of it all. As you know(but people who are reading this don't know) I wrote you an email. I know you have been successful at your goals and you did great. I emailed you asking you a few questions, so I can learn, and get a better understanding of things. I know we can learn from each other, and we might be able to apply things we didn't think about or where aware of. So we can help each other out.
I think this is what it all boils down to for everyone. Learning from each other and growing.0 -
WHOA, i didn't mean pushing your limits like that. What I mean is... pushing the limits of human potential. In terms of bettering ourselves, so we can live to our maximum potential. This has nothing to do with being unhealthy.I am talking about about being "super healthy". If you're on a low calorie diet for a while, i think all of us know, it's miserable. Is being miserable healthy for your psychology, and your physiology? NO. It can make you stressed out. Also low calorie diets, can lead to severe health issues. Is this healthy? NO.Also with the whole pushing your limits, I agree too- but I don't know if you read an earlier post by me, my little sister and a few of her friends have signed up for this site, and young girls especially will do anything to lose weight quickly.
I know you're not stating the contrary. I just want to make it clear to the young people.My 'passion' that has come through in many of my posts were solely because I was concerned that the youngin's on this site might read posts like yours and think they can eat next to nothing and be healthy. I think we both agree that when someone is only a few pounds overweight and are still growing (their freshman in high school, so 14 and 15), it is really important for them to eat balanced and enough, especially since a 15 year old metabolism is certainly a lot faster than a full grown adult. Also, I feel as if most 15 year old minds are not capable of understanding anything more than what is a healthy food and what is an unhealthy food, and if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight. I doubt they have the capacity to understand the intricate workings of mirco- nutrients, the human metabolism, hormones, the breaking down of amino acids, etc.
And to everyone who says "people should be smart enough to do what works for them, etc."-there and young and impressionable people on this site. I used to be one of them, which is why I suffered an eating disorder for quite a while. There are overweight people at every age. Any ADULT should be intelligent enough to know what will work for them.
This is more to the young people what I am about to type. Low calorie diets, are not recommended. If you do do low calorie diets for a prolonged period of time. You can seriously injure your body. What I would recommend for a young person, is start to engage in a exercise program. Exercise doesn't consist of torturing yourself. It just consist of increasing your heart rate for a little while 15-60mins. You can do many things, play sports is a fun activity. Girls like to dance, you can do that too. Being active is what it boils down to, you can go for bike rides also. It's not about spending hours in the gym. Nutrition should be something you work your way in to. Most people on this site have had issues with their weight most of their lives. I wish someone gave me the advice I am about to give when I was younger. Maybe if they did, I probably still wouldn't have listened. The thing to do is, gradually change your eating habits, if you change them suddenly it can lead to a lot of stress on the body and make you relapse and gain back your weight and probably more. The thing is to make healthy eating a life long habit. This can not be rushed.
I know girls are all fussy about their hair, and usually try to make it all pretty. Guess what could happen if you get on a low calorie diet for a while. your hair can fall out. Your skin can look all funky.... pale, with chaps. Your teeth can also fall out too, you can get bloody noses out of the blue. Your menstrual cycle can be damaged, and you may not be able to have kids.
Same thing with guys. of course they don't have menstrual cycles. But their sperm count can be low preventing them from having kids. Their testosterone levels can go down also.
In worse case scenario it can lead to death.
My closing statement, adults can also be very........... naive and do things that will harm them, so what i stated doesn't only apply to young people.0 -
conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.
It's really NOT necessary. Why go through mental and physical unpleasantness? Why not be the best you can be both mentally and physically?
okay. i'm not assuming definitely, but i'm gonna infer that you probably regard me as "one of those stupid pro-anorexia girls" or something similar; and i know a lot of people think "not eating" is "the easy way out" (which is a ridiculous viewpoint aided by a misconception that people with EDs don't exercise...).
but it isn't so. have an unhealthy relationship with food and my self-image (not just physically) stemming from very private/personal past experience, and it's lead me to this point--at which i want to lose even more than is "healthy," which cannot be done via healthy methods. if i eat as much as a "normal" person, i won't keep losing weight. i know i'll gain; it only makes sense. i'm 5'7 and weigh ~109 lbs (the last five pounds are from emotional binging in the past couple of weeks, which is generally followed by cycles of heavy cardio + calorie restriction). to keep losing weight when i am already underweight, i have to keep working in a manner that is...abnormal/disordered, i suppose. but moreover, the behaviors in which i've so deeply/long-rooted myself maintain their grip on me because of fear of GAINING weight (i have a "safe range"--anything under 110--and i get caught up in ridiculous, addicting cycles such as now in order to maintain a weight within my own acceptable boundaries).
yeah...i joined MFP for the calorie counter and progress reports (i had the limited app on my phone before i even realized that an online community existed). so no, i'm not a typical member. but i hope my ramble above helped shed some light on why people find themselves in confusing, nonsensical and difficult-to-understand patterns or methods of weight-control. i would go more in depth, but i don't want this topic to stray too far from its original point >.<0 -
conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.
It's really NOT necessary. Why go through mental and physical unpleasantness? Why not be the best you can be both mentally and physically?
okay. i'm not assuming definitely, but i'm gonna infer that you probably regard me as "one of those stupid pro-anorexia girls" or something similar; and i know a lot of people think "not eating" is "the easy way out" (which is a ridiculous viewpoint aided by a misconception that people with EDs don't exercise...).
but it isn't so. have an unhealthy relationship with food and my self-image (not just physically) stemming from very private/personal past experience, and it's lead me to this point--at which i want to lose even more than is "healthy," which cannot be done via healthy methods. if i eat as much as a "normal" person, i won't keep losing weight. i know i'll gain; it only makes sense. i'm 5'7 and weigh ~109 lbs (the last five pounds are from emotional binging in the past couple of weeks, which is generally followed by cycles of heavy cardio + calorie restriction). to keep losing weight when i am already underweight, i have to keep working in a manner that is...abnormal/disordered, i suppose. but moreover, the behaviors in which i've so deeply/long-rooted myself maintain their grip on me because of fear of GAINING weight (i have a "safe range"--anything under 110--and i get caught up in ridiculous, addicting cycles such as now in order to maintain a weight within my own acceptable boundaries).
yeah...i joined MFP for the calorie counter and progress reports (i had the limited app on my phone before i even realized that an online community existed). so no, i'm not a typical member. but i hope my ramble above helped shed some light on why people find themselves in confusing, nonsensical and difficult-to-understand patterns or methods of weight-control. i would go more in depth, but i don't want this topic to stray too far from its original point >.<
have you ever tried professional help with your issue?0 -
Please note, and I'm very very serious on this. This website is designed for fully grown adults, and thus the very explicit rule that is right out there in the sign up page about a requirement of 18 years of age.
We take that rule seriously, posting things for people who are younger has no bearing here and shouldn't be done in my opinion first because very few of us have any experience with child and adolescent nutrition and health requirements, second because teen psychological factors can be daunting in even the most well adjusted child, never mind those who've battled weight issues, and third because it's against the forum rules to sign up and be under 18, and posting topics that cater to that demographic will encourage more adolescents to sign up for this site.
So if you're under 18 and on MFP, I STRONGLY urge you to leave this site, if you feel like you're having emotional problems that this site helps with, seek the help of a parent or a local school guidance councilor or trusted advisor. The topics being discussed on MFP do NOT affect the teenage body the same way it does with the body of someone in their 20's or 30's or older. And if you are replying about the need to take into account the emotions and/or eating habits of teens and adolescents, then that should be stopped, this isn't the site for that.
I know this sounds harsh, but there are very good medical and psychological reasons for it. The teen body is different, hormones are completely different which can really change how we store and process food. The teen mind is also quite different and in many ways, them reading some of these posts can result in emotional tail spins that could take years for them to recover from. Neither should you as adults, entertain teen posts, nor should you allow them to be on MFP, for their own sake, it's imperative that they seek the CORRECT help, not a peer (adult peer) website.
Please note I'm not speaking officially here as an MFP moderator, just a member that understands that there's a very good reason why MFP does not allow those under 18 on the site.0 -
Please note, and I'm very very serious on this. This website is designed for fully grown adults, and thus the very explicit rule that is right out there in the sign up page about a requirement of 18 years of age.
We take that rule seriously, posting things for people who are younger has no bearing here and shouldn't be done in my opinion first because very few of us have any experience with child and adolescent nutrition and health requirements, second because teen psychological factors can be daunting in even the most well adjusted child, never mind those who've battled weight issues, and third because it's against the forum rules to sign up and be under 18, and posting topics that cater to that demographic will encourage more adolescents to sign up for this site.
So if you're under 18 and on MFP, I STRONGLY urge you to leave this site, if you feel like you're having emotional problems that this site helps with, seek the help of a parent or a local school guidance councilor or trusted advisor. The topics being discussed on MFP do NOT affect the teenage body the same way it does with the body of someone in their 20's or 30's or older. And if you are replying about the need to take into account the emotions and/or eating habits of teens and adolescents, then that should be stopped, this isn't the site for that.
I know this sounds harsh, but there are very good medical and psychological reasons for it. The teen body is different, hormones are completely different which can really change how we store and process food. The teen mind is also quite different and in many ways, them reading some of these posts can result in emotional tail spins that could take years for them to recover from. Neither should you as adults, entertain teen posts, nor should you allow them to be on MFP, for their own sake, it's imperative that they seek the CORRECT help, not a peer (adult peer) website.
Please note I'm not speaking officially here as an MFP moderator, just a member that understands that there's a very good reason why MFP does not allow those under 18 on the site.
For the record, I was speaking of under age people in an emotional sense...meaning people underage might not be able to differentiate between right and wrong, or correct and incorrect, or even logical or illogical information...and that consideration for ANYONE'S emotional state/ability to reason (that is a driving factor for losing weight), underage or not...should be given when posting.
I don't personally know any teens on here...but I'm 150% sure there are.
Cris0 -
Please note, and I'm very very serious on this. This website is designed for fully grown adults, and thus the very explicit rule that is right out there in the sign up page about a requirement of 18 years of age.
We take that rule seriously, posting things for people who are younger has no bearing here and shouldn't be done in my opinion first because very few of us have any experience with child and adolescent nutrition and health requirements, second because teen psychological factors can be daunting in even the most well adjusted child, never mind those who've battled weight issues, and third because it's against the forum rules to sign up and be under 18, and posting topics that cater to that demographic will encourage more adolescents to sign up for this site.
So if you're under 18 and on MFP, I STRONGLY urge you to leave this site, if you feel like you're having emotional problems that this site helps with, seek the help of a parent or a local school guidance councilor or trusted advisor. The topics being discussed on MFP do NOT affect the teenage body the same way it does with the body of someone in their 20's or 30's or older. And if you are replying about the need to take into account the emotions and/or eating habits of teens and adolescents, then that should be stopped, this isn't the site for that.
I know this sounds harsh, but there are very good medical and psychological reasons for it. The teen body is different, hormones are completely different which can really change how we store and process food. The teen mind is also quite different and in many ways, them reading some of these posts can result in emotional tail spins that could take years for them to recover from. Neither should you as adults, entertain teen posts, nor should you allow them to be on MFP, for their own sake, it's imperative that they seek the CORRECT help, not a peer (adult peer) website.
Please note I'm not speaking officially here as an MFP moderator, just a member that understands that there's a very good reason why MFP does not allow those under 18 on the site.
Yeah of course, but you have to be realistic. All you have to do is change your birthday. Its not like you need to input a social security number to sign up. People under 18 will join.
And whoever determined an 18 year old was an adult was nuts anyways, your brain isn't fully developed until you are 24 and I was definitely still a child at 18.0 -
I thought i stated no one under 22 should use any advanced diet methods, but I guess not. So here is my statement.0
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I love your argument! To the people who disagree... think about anorexia. If you don't eat, you're going to lose weight. And the first time you eat after not eating for 2 weeks, you aren't going to suddenly gain weight.0
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Yeah of course, but you have to be realistic. All you have to do is change your birthday. Its not like you need to input a social security number to sign up. People under 18 will join.
And whoever determined an 18 year old was an adult was nuts anyways, your brain isn't fully developed until you are 24 and I was definitely still a child at 18.
regardless of whether there are actually people under age on here, accounting for it is an unreasonable thing to ask for.0 -
I love your argument! To the people who disagree... think about anorexia. If you don't eat, you're going to lose weight. And the first time you eat after not eating for 2 weeks, you aren't going to suddenly gain weight.
that would, of course, depend on how much you eat. But I would say in a general sense that you actually WOULD gain weight after 2 weeks of starvation rather easily. Plus you'd become pretty sick if you tried to eat to much. There's a reason why they put people who've been POW's and malnourished on very strict low calorie "re-feeding" diets to gradually introduce them to healthy amounts of food again, because the body takes time to recognize again that it's not starving, if you go from no food to a (relatively) high amount of food that person WILL gain weight in the form of fat very fast, far faster than if their metabolism was healthy.0 -
I have heard this before but I completely forgot about it.
Thanks.0 -
Why is this site rated "pg-13" if it's also for "adults?"0
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I agree, everyone is made up differently, and different things work for different people. Everyone is not built the same, therefore all of us loose/gain weight uniquely. If people want to be healthy, there is work to be done to do so. Wether it be loose weight or excercise, or change eating habits. Just saying.... 0
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I just wanted to share this because fat can't be used only to fuel the body, glucose must still be present.
"At this point, most of the cells are depending on fatty acids to continue providing their fuel. But, as mentioned earlier red blood cells and the cells of the nervous system need glucose. Glucose is their primary energy fuel, and even when other energy fuels are available, glucose must be present to permit the energy-metabolism machinary of the nervous system to work........The need for glucose poses a problem for the fasting body. The body can use its stores of fat, which may be quite generous, to furnish most of its cells with energy, but the red blood cells are completely dependant on glucose, and the brain and nerves prefer energy in the form of glucose. Amino acids that yield pyruvate can be used to make glucose. To obtain the amino acids, body proteins must be broken down. For this reason, body protein tissues such as muscle and liver always break down to some extent during fasting....In an effort to conserve body tissues for as long as possible, the hormones of fasting slow metabolism.As the body adapts to the use of ketone bodies, it simultaneously reduces its energy output and conserves both its fat and its lean tissue. Still the lean (protein-containing) tissues shrink and performm less metabolic work, reducing energy expenditures. As the muscles waste, they can do less work and so demand less energy, reducing expenditures further. Although fasting may produce dramatic weight loss, a low-kcalorie diet and physical activity better support fat loss while retaining lean tissue." (Whitney, DeBruyne, Pinna, Rolfes)
This is why catabolism occurs...or starvation mode to some, even though I don't prefer the term. I do agree that humans don't need to consume multiple small meals daily. This may work for some to keep them on track in maintaining their calorie deficit or maintenance but it doesn't work for me; I prefer a big dinner.0 -
I just wanted to share this because fat can't be used only to fuel the body, glucose must still be present.
"At this point, most of the cells are depending on fatty acids to continue providing their fuel. But, as mentioned earlier red blood cells and the cells of the nervous system need glucose. Glucose is their primary energy fuel, and even when other energy fuels are available, glucose must be present to permit the energy-metabolism machinary of the nervous system to work........The need for glucose poses a problem for the fasting body. The body can use its stores of fat, which may be quite generous, to furnish most of its cells with energy, but the red blood cells are completely dependant on glucose, and the brain and nerves prefer energy in the form of glucose. Amino acids that yield pyruvate can be used to make glucose. To obtain the amino acids, body proteins must be broken down. For this reason, body protein tissues such as muscle and liver always break down to some extent during fasting....In an effort to conserve body tissues for as long as possible, the hormones of fasting slow metabolism.As the body adapts to the use of ketone bodies, it simultaneously reduces its energy output and conserves both its fat and its lean tissue. Still the lean (protein-containing) tissues shrink and performm less metabolic work, reducing energy expenditures. As the muscles waste, they can do less work and so demand less energy, reducing expenditures further. Although fasting may produce dramatic weight loss, a low-kcalorie diet and physical activity better support fat loss while retaining lean tissue." (Whitney, DeBruyne, Pinna, Rolfes)
This is why catabolism occurs...or starvation mode to some, even though I don't prefer the term. I do agree that humans don't need to consume multiple small meals daily. This may work for some to keep them on track in maintaining their calorie deficit or maintenance but it doesn't work for me; I prefer a big dinner.
That's a nice quote, I think with adequte protein intake, that wouldn't be a problem. About the 1 meal a day thing... It's more of a discpline issue I believe. Some people just can't do it, honestly... I can't do exactly 1 meal a day sometimes. I started out with drinking a protein shake in the afternoon to curve my appetite till later.0 -
Oh, I eat more than once a day but I don't eat 6 small meals because I never feel satisfied. I also look forward to sitting down with my family and having a traditional, but healthy dinner.0
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Was doing some research this morning on "starvation mode" and found this health science article very informative. Not sure if it has been posted already or not.
http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267
and this lady did an excellent job of explaining the above article
http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html0 -
Was doing some research this morning on "starvation mode" and found this health science article very informative. Not sure if it has been posted already or not.
http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267
and this lady did an excellent job of explaining the above article
http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html
Here's what's frustrating for me.
1. Yes you can lose weight in "starvation mode" but some people literally do stall completely. I've been there, and I've seen it dozens of times working with people at my gym.
2. What's the point of trying to eat as little as possible? If we are overweight to begin with, doesn't that kind mean we enjoy eating food. Sorry, but a life of anorexia is not one I want to live.
3.I've said this many, many times, a deficit of calories leads to a slow down of metabolism. Whether it's a 500 calorie deficit or a 2,000 calorie deficit. The difference is how extreme the slowdown happens.
4. What breaks this trend? A SURPLUS of calories. Think about it, if your body has enough calories to STORE some energy like glycogen, how can it be in "starvation mode"
5. What do I know? Maybe something because it's been 7 years since I lost over 100lbs and I am in the best physical shape of my entire life right now and I eat like a King on my spike day.
6. Losing as much weight as I did should have destroyed my metabolism and I should be stuck eating less and exercising daily to keep it off, but I don't. I eat somewhere around 20,000 calories a week and I workout between an hour and 2 hours a week.
If you want to lose weight and keep your metabolism strong, 6 days deficit, 1 day surplus, it really is as simple as that.
We can all agree the term "starvation mode" is the wrong term, but I don't see how anyone can argue that it doesn't happen. The "experts" who disregard it probably have never been fat their entire life. They don't have a clue of what it is really like. To me it's like a politician talking about Irag without ever being in a war.
Is this a problem for people who need to lose 10lbs? No, but for those who are trying to lose 50+ pounds, it absolutely is. Counting hands, how many of us have been through 2-3+ week plateau?
My hand is raised.
Sorry for the rant, but this is personal to me. IMO, there is nothing worse than this while dieting. We eat perfect, we exercise, and we don't lose weight. It's a huge slap in the face.0 -
Was doing some research this morning on "starvation mode" and found this health science article very informative. Not sure if it has been posted already or not.
http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267
and this lady did an excellent job of explaining the above article
http://fattyfightsback.blogspot.com/2009/03/mtyhbusters-starvation-mode.html
Here's what's frustrating for me.
1. Yes you can lose weight in "starvation mode" but some people literally do stall completely. I've been there, and I've seen it dozens of times working with people at my gym.
2. What's the point of trying to eat as little as possible? If we are overweight to begin with, doesn't that kind mean we enjoy eating food. Sorry, but a life of anorexia is not one I want to live.
3.I've said this many, many times, a deficit of calories leads to a slow down of metabolism. Whether it's a 500 calorie deficit or a 2,000 calorie deficit. The difference is how extreme the slowdown happens.
4. What breaks this trend? A SURPLUS of calories. Think about it, if your body has enough calories to STORE some energy like glycogen, how can it be in "starvation mode"
5. What do I know? Maybe something because it's been 7 years since I lost over 100lbs and I am in the best physical shape of my entire life right now and I eat like a King on my spike day.
6. Losing as much weight as I did should have destroyed my metabolism and I should be stuck eating less and exercising daily to keep it off, but I don't. I eat somewhere around 20,000 calories a week and I workout between an hour and 2 hours a week.
If you want to lose weight and keep your metabolism strong, 6 days deficit, 1 day surplus, it really is as simple as that.
We can all agree the term "starvation mode" is the wrong term, but I don't see how anyone can argue that it doesn't happen. The "experts" who disregard it probably have never been fat their entire life. They don't have a clue of what it is really like. To me it's like a politician talking about Irag without ever being in a war.
Is this a problem for people who need to lose 10lbs? No, but for those who are trying to lose 50+ pounds, it absolutely is. Counting hands, how many of us have been through 2-3+ week plateau?
My hand is raised.
Sorry for the rant, but this is personal to me. IMO, there is nothing worse than this while dieting. We eat perfect, we exercise, and we don't lose weight. It's a huge slap in the face.
I agree with a lot of what you said Russell. I also really believe everyone's body responds differently and they have to do what is best for them. Where I get annoyed is every single time someone complains "I'm not losing, what is wrong" 30 people will log in to tell them oh you don't eat enough, your body is in starvation mode. I can almost guarantee that isn't true for most of those people.
I think everyone hits a plateau because their body has their own internal schedule where it needs to stop and readjust itself. Does eating more calories help jump start it along? Maybe? Or maybe for that person it wouldn't have mattered what their calories were, higher or lower. After x amount of time it starts moving again.
Again my opinion only based on my readings of science and nutrition articles. I just think we need to stop telling every single person who hits a plateau, "Oh you are starving, eat more."0
This discussion has been closed.
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