People judge - that's just "reality" - BULL****!

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  • candistyx
    candistyx Posts: 547 Member
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    In response to this thread I've created a seperate thread because I think the issues being discussed could easily be seperated out into several different things and I am interested in one specific thing.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/297857-do-you-think-fat-people-ought-to-lose-weight

    I AM losing weight... but I really find disturbing the idea that if other people don't that on some level that is wrong (even if just in the "I dont care what they do but they're too disgusting for me to associate with, personally" kind of level).
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Thank you MFP for screwing up my links on the message boards.

    LOL, that's ok. But the remains they find don't have fat on them. It's just bones. Usually with teeth marks. So maybe cavemen were lovely and plump...good eats! :laugh:
  • jjhanlon
    jjhanlon Posts: 74 Member
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    Yeah but... 1/3rd of women at any given time are on a diet apparently...
    ..it's really not for lack of trying for some people.

    Right. Which is why Atkins works great for a lot of people. It eliminates there insulin sensitivity and unlocks them from growth mode allowing them to lose weight. Which is fabulous, but then what. They stop paying attention again, stop doing something about it and they gain it all back, then they claim that they have a physiological problem that means they can never lose weight. That is total self delusional BS. No matter what physiological problem people have there is nothing that dooms them to a life of obesity. People may have problems that make it hard as heII but not impossible. And to me insulin sensitivity an excuse for either not trying or an excuse for failing.


    YES YES YES. THANK YOU. AMEN. One of my coworkers is 300+ and a very petite person. This person was a premie 35 years ago. They overfed them then, to "catch up" to their normal weight. Science has now shown that overfeeding premature babies is linked to obesity later in life. Yet, this person still eats 3,000+ calories every day, and does NOTHING about their weight. There lies the problem. Complacency. It takes hard f****ing work to get yourself healthy and to a normal BMI. Most people try for 5 minutes and when that doesn't work, they give up. YOU CAN'T GIVE UP!!! There isn't a quick fix for years and years and years of "conditioned hypereating" (to use a term from The end of overeating by Dr. David Kessler, MD). <---- If you want a book that will shed some light on a large part of why America is fat, read that one. The guy did lots of research and talked to lots of biggies in the food/restaurant industry.

    Our bodies are geared to work for the food we put in it. Now that food is everywhere, we don't have to. Please tell me I don't have to put 2 and 2 together for you here :wink:

    Ok. Off my soapbox now.
  • Ajontheguitar
    Ajontheguitar Posts: 695
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    That's my point though. I don't like the comparison to cavemen when they were structurally a lot different. We don't know if they were fat, thin, or made of synthetic alloy.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    That's my point though. I don't like the comparison to cavemen when they were structurally a lot different. We don't know if they were fat, thin, or made of synthetic alloy.

    Well I'd probably guess against synthetic alloy, otherwise I feel like there'd be more left behind. :bigsmile: And I agree it's a silly comparison. Most people think neanderthal = caveman = us, but homo sapiens sapiens actually was a different evolutionary branch and evidence suggests that neanderthals died off because they couldn't compete with homo sapiens sapiens.
  • zoodalia
    zoodalia Posts: 294
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.
  • FearAnLoathing
    FearAnLoathing Posts: 4,852 Member
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    So easy even a caveman could do it........................

    474536562_bb40d80c89.jpg
  • Ajontheguitar
    Ajontheguitar Posts: 695
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    My flat :) you UK are adorable and I mean that genuinely.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame genetics, my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    I'm not offended. But I do claim to be a professional in metabolism. :laugh: I'm just saying the issue of weight gain is more complex than over-eating. And we are animals, but we are domesticated. If you want to see an undomesticated population, go to forests of Papua New Guinea. Those guys are lean.
  • zoodalia
    zoodalia Posts: 294
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame genetics, my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    I'm not offended. But I do claim to be a professional in metabolism. :laugh: I'm just saying the issue of weight gain is more complex than over-eating. And we are animals, but we are domesticated. If you want to see an undomesticated population, go to forests of Papua New Guinea. Those guys are lean.

    Thanks for your response, unfortunately my expertise lies elsewhere so am always interested to hear a more educated perspective. I also agree we are domesticated, I'm looking for someone to explain how that justifies obesity?
  • zoodalia
    zoodalia Posts: 294
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    My flat :) you UK are adorable and I mean that genuinely.

    Ha, is 'flat' a strange choice of words?
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame genetics, my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    I'm not offended. But I do claim to be a professional in metabolism. :laugh: I'm just saying the issue of weight gain is more complex than over-eating. And we are animals, but we are domesticated. If you want to see an undomesticated population, go to forests of Papua New Guinea. Those guys are lean.

    Thanks for your response, unfortunately my expertise lies elsewhere so am always interested to hear a more educated perspective. I also agree we are domesticated, I'm looking for someone to explain why that explains how that justifies obesity?

    Does obesity need to be justified? I didn't think it was a moral issue. :huh: I can explain why people maintain their obesity and why they are predisposed to it, but I can't justify obesity any more than I can justify having brown hair. I can change my hair color artificially, but genetically, it's still brown. It just...is.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Personally, I feel the question of "WHY" we are fat or we are genetically predisposed to putting on weight is a redundant one outside of academia. I don't really care what caveman did or did not eat, how they hunted and so on. It's just the intellectual equivalent of guys comparing the sizes of their wangs.

    It maybe interesting but it is now way as important as "HOW"

    How can I lose weight safely and effectively. How can I structure my eating to minimise hunger? How can I preserve lean mass whilst in a calorie deficit?

    How questions are goal orientated. They put you in a more positive place than why questions. Why is it so difficult for me to lose weight? Why can some people lose weight so much quicker than I can? Why does it have to be so hard?
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Personally, I feel the question of "WHY" we are fat or we are genetically predisposed to putting on weight is a redundant one outside of academia.

    Hey, I resemble that remark! :laugh: I think if we (academia) can come up with some solutions, the WHY will have paid off. But when people are looking for a justification...well that's purely subjective. No one can give a straight, reasonable answer on that one. When someone asks me why, I want to explain metabolic endotoxemia! But that doesn't really help them, because they were looking for a motivation, not a signaling cascade. :tongue:
  • Kalrez
    Kalrez Posts: 655 Member
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    Sounds like you should probably stop trying to blame anything other than yourself for your weight gain. Take responsibility for your past actions so that you can make the changes today for the body you want tomorrow. You can't make any headway on this journey by continuing to blame others for your decisions and your actions.

    You did it. Own it, and move on.
  • zoodalia
    zoodalia Posts: 294
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame genetics, my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    I'm not offended. But I do claim to be a professional in metabolism. :laugh: I'm just saying the issue of weight gain is more complex than over-eating. And we are animals, but we are domesticated. If you want to see an undomesticated population, go to forests of Papua New Guinea. Those guys are lean.

    Thanks for your response, unfortunately my expertise lies elsewhere so am always interested to hear a more educated perspective. I also agree we are domesticated, I'm looking for someone to explain why that explains how that justifies obesity?

    Does obesity need to be justified? I didn't think it was a moral issue. :huh: I can explain why people maintain their obesity and why they are predisposed to it, but I can't justify obesity any more than I can justify having brown hair. I can change my hair color artificially, but genetically, it's still brown. It just...is.

    Well, that appears to be where I lack the relevant education then. I am naturally a brunette, I was born with black hair and hazel eyes. I wasn't born fat. My sister has very little interest in food and our mother reports that she always did and contrastively reports that I was always a big eater, so I accept that people are predisposed to eat more. However, I struggle to accept (clinical conditions excluded) why some people claim to be overweight naturally. I am not criticising people for getting fat, I don't make any judgements when I see an overweight person in the street, I myself, am in that category. I'm simply questioning the reasoning behind it, and also seeking clarity in the arguments that 'some people are naturally fat'.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    Gosh, what a debate I have started. I'm sorry my viewpoint appears to have offended so many people. However, I stand by my opinions. I am not claiming to be an expert in human development... but I do believe that we live in an excuses culture in which people will do anything to avoid facing reality. I also think that is a great shame.

    Some people are predisposed to gain more weight than others, I have a friend who eats takeaways constantly, yet I eat more than one a week and I gain two stone in a year (reality). I am on this website to lose weight, and therefore consider myself someone who puts on weight easily. I don't blame genetics, my parents, my flat, my cats or the socks I put in the wash last week. I am psychological sound enough to assess the food I was eating and the link it had to my weight gain.

    I also stand by my comments about wild animals - - - last time I checked humans are animals, just ones that don't chase or get chased often enough! Some people have clinical conditions that cause weight gain, I am not including those in my post, I am including the other millions who try desperately to apply reasons other than over-eating to the causes of their weight gain.

    I'm not offended. But I do claim to be a professional in metabolism. :laugh: I'm just saying the issue of weight gain is more complex than over-eating. And we are animals, but we are domesticated. If you want to see an undomesticated population, go to forests of Papua New Guinea. Those guys are lean.

    Thanks for your response, unfortunately my expertise lies elsewhere so am always interested to hear a more educated perspective. I also agree we are domesticated, I'm looking for someone to explain why that explains how that justifies obesity?

    Does obesity need to be justified? I didn't think it was a moral issue. :huh: I can explain why people maintain their obesity and why they are predisposed to it, but I can't justify obesity any more than I can justify having brown hair. I can change my hair color artificially, but genetically, it's still brown. It just...is.

    Well, that appears to be where I lack the relevant education then. I am naturally a brunette, I was born with black hair and hazel eyes. I wasn't born fat. My sister has very little interest in food and our mother reports that she always did and contrastively reports that I was always a big eater, so I accept that people are predisposed to eat more. However, I struggle to accept (clinical conditions excluded) why some people claim to be overweight naturally. I am not criticising people for getting fat, I don't make any judgements when I see an overweight person in the street, I myself, am in that category. I'm simply questioning the reasoning behind it, and also clarity in the arguments that 'some people are naturally fat'.

    Well it's hard to be born fat considering you only begin to gain body fat in about the last 4 weeks. You might find epigenetics interesting. It is the study of how a mother's habits during pregnancy (nutritional as well, not just unhealthy things) will influence her fetus's DNA through phosphorylation of histidine residues, mostly. It really starts before you are even fully formed.
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    That's my point though. I don't like the comparison to cavemen when they were structurally a lot different. We don't know if they were fat, thin, or made of synthetic alloy.

    Depends what you mean by cavemen. Homo Sapiens neanderthalensis may have been slightly different in structure to modern humans, but homo sapiens sapiens, who left Africa around 100-70000 years ago were the same subspecies as the humans on Earth today, and there is plenty of evidence in their skeletal remains to show us their build and diets. You wouldn't believe how much research has been done on the micronutrients in bones and hair of early humans. We know exactly what they ate in different areas, and exactly how fat/muscled etc they were.
  • teshaerwin
    teshaerwin Posts: 42
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    I am laughing at this post! People gain weight because of what they eat and how much they eat! I hate Excuses and this post is an EXCUSE and easy way out! Eat healthy and exercise and you will loose weight!!!!!!!!! I gained a 30 pounds because I was lazy and I ate like crap, I own that! Take responsibility for your actions :)
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    Hey, I resemble that remark! :laugh: I think if we (academia) can come up with some solutions, the WHY will have paid off.

    Lol - oh for sure. I will thank people like you immensely for putting in the hard work so I can merrily ride along on your coat tails.

    Until you guys come up with some definite answers like a magic pill to cure obesity I will, as an individual, care more about being strong and healthy than being right. Those goals can be achieved by someone like me without the first clue about what cavemen did or did not do. It makes more sense to focus energy on the practical than the esoteric.

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