How much protein do you really need?

ninerbuff

I would love to have someone tell Dorian Yates that he should only be consuming .5g-1g of protein per lb of his LBM or Bodyweight. He would quickly tell you to go <being MFP compliant> yourself.

Lol, Dorian is a shadow of his former self now, but look at someone like Kai Greene or Jay Cutler (Mr. Olympia now) and tipping the scales off season at over 300lbs on 5'9" frames...............

TK421NotAtPost

Yes...you do need both... But people eat MORE carbs then they need and it gets stored as fat if not used...that's all I was saying.

Agree. Too much protein is hardly the problem when it comes to the American diet. When I worked out my macros for the first time, I realized I was eating a staggeringly high amount of carbs. Sugar and refined carbs are everywhere.... downing 1,000+ calories on a carb-heavy meal can be done without blinking.

ninerbuff

That would be awesome... Lol it's unfortunate that I never find a lean choice for a burger

Bison?

odusgolp

This makes my head hurt.

I think the only thing I've gleaned from this discussion is that someone thinks we should all live off what is grown and we are overfeeding miserable cows... so we should all go vegan and starve all the cows to death.

I learn so much from message boards...

torie079

Same here!

torie079

I mean in restaurants... I make them at home with lean ground beef...have yet to try bison though!

VickiMitkins

Best laugh I've had all day.

VickiMitkins

I mean in restaurants... I make them at home with lean ground beef...have yet to try bison though!

I've had it, not as a burger though. I liked it. Of course, I grew up eating Bambi's mom.

bcattoes

If you are trying to lose weight or build muscle and using the RDA arguement you do not realize that the government does not test their recommendations for these two dietary needs. They give their info out on what will keep you healthy. Heck, they don't even say if more or less is unhealthy, just that the number they give is healthy.

??? All major medical organizations have guidelines for losing weight and most suggest that include weight training. At least those that I read do.

lmarshel

A single burger and a milkshake is 2-3x more protein than the daily requirement.

I'll be generous and spot them a Whopper which contains about 30g of protein. A milkshake might (read: MIGHT) contain a whopping 20g of protein.

So 50g of protein is 2-3x more than most people need? Meaning the daily requirement is 15-25g of protein daily. Yeah, I'm going to call bs on this article.

The article specifically says it's a 1/2 pound cheeseburger, so I don't think they're talking about a Whopper there.

The average person in this country is not a body-builder, and they are probably eating more protein than they need every day. We (Americans) tend to overdo everything, it seems.

TK421NotAtPost

The article specifically says it's a 1/2 pound cheeseburger, so I don't think they're talking about a Whopper there.

The average person in this country is not a body-builder, and they are probably eating more protein than they need every day. We (Americans) tend to overdo everything, it seems.

Of course we do. But we also eat more carbs than we need and more fat than we need....but the calories have to come from somewhere, right?

If you apply that reasoning to carbs and fats as well, we would hardly eat anything at all. This is why the whole argument on how much protein or any macronutrient we "need" is misguided and a blanket statement that most of us eat more protein than we need is missing the forest for the trees.

123456654321

The article specifically says it's a 1/2 pound cheeseburger, so I don't think they're talking about a Whopper there.

The average person in this country is not a body-builder, and they are probably eating more protein than they need every day. We (Americans) tend to overdo everything, it seems.

Of course we do. But we also eat more carbs than we need and more fat than we need....but the calories have to come from somewhere, right?

If you apply that reasoning to carbs and fats as well, we would hardly eat anything at all. This is why the whole argument on how much protein or any macronutrient we "need" is misguided and a blanket statement that most of us eat more protein than we need is missing the forest for the trees.

Oh you. Get out of here with your calm and grounded logic. xD

CraftyGirl4

This is so true. Nobody ever wants to listen to me because I'm vegan but people really don't need as much protein as they think they do. Plus its naturally found in a lot more foods than people realize. I'm up to 51 grams of protein so far today without even trying, and without any animal products.

No the article is full of crap. Protein minimums are required, not optional not only for muscle building but to lose weight (burning fat instead of muscle). It's all part of hitting your macronutrient requirements.

Protein minumums are required regardless of what kind of diet you choose to follow. However, the average woman needs about 50-60 grams of protein per day. If you get that from peanut butter or chicken, it doesn't make that much of a difference. And, carbs are needed for muscle growth also.

Nobody (including the article) said there weren't minimum amounts of protein needed, just that the average person consumes way more than they need.

And actually the average person consumes way LESS protein than they need, and consume way MORE carbs than they need.

greej

In case anyone's still wondering, here's a website full of vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

liftingbro

In case anyone's still wondering, here's a website full of vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

While those guys are are in great shape and could compete in the fitness model divisions they are all significantly smaller than their non-vegan natural counterparts.

Silverkittycat

Curious as to why people seem to be so concerned about what bodybuilders are doing? It seems like these conversations always end up in an argument about what bodybuilders need/don't need.

Good question! Are the majority of MFP members bodybuilders?
I'm new, curious, and possibly on the wrong site as I'm a middle-aged female that isn't an athlete or a bodybuilder. :laugh:


I was wondering that myself when I saw the article was from Shine - isn't that a young women's fashion/celebrity/beauty/dating type site? The article's target audience might not have been serious bodybuilders. Wouldn't the nutritional needs of a young female differ from the needs of a competitive bodybuilder?

ninerbuff

In case anyone's still wondering, here's a website full of vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

Lol, comparing these competitors to top amateurs and pros would be like comparing my amateur skills in poker to a pro poker player. I'm not relevant when it comes to REAL competitions.

liftingbro

Curious as to why people seem to be so concerned about what bodybuilders are doing? It seems like these conversations always end up in an argument about what bodybuilders need/don't need.

Good question! Are the majority of MFP members bodybuilders?
I'm new, curious, and possibly on the wrong site as I'm a middle-aged female that isn't an athlete or a bodybuilder. :laugh:


I was wondering that myself when I saw the article was from Shine - isn't that a young women's fashion/celebrity/beauty/dating type site? The article's target audience might not have been serious bodybuilders. Wouldn't the nutritional needs of a young female differ from a competitive bodybuilder's?

The correct diet for building muscle is the same regadless of size or sex, it's just scaled to your size. Not that I'm upset with you or upset at all but it does get old when people say "why do people care what body builders do".

Well, many body builders know a lot about nutrition for one thing. They have to have perfect nutrition to achieve what they achieve. It may not be practical to takeit to the extremes that they do, but the basic prinicples are the same.

#1- Get enough protein. 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass is the best number science has been able to identify for optimal muscle building potential.

#2- Fats and carbs are important. Most bodybuilders do take in large amounts of carbs, except during contest prep.

#3- Lift heavy

#4- set calorie intake to mean your goals, deficit to lose weight, surplus to gain weight.

These basic principles will work for anyone looking to build muscle. If you don't care how much muscle you have or lose then eat however little protein you like.

Silverkittycat

Thanks for your response, mcrow. I have one more question, if you wouldn't mind.
You give a protein goal of 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass, but I often see 1 per kilogram. Is it per pound or per kilogram?


* skip the question, I just realized the answer!

NiciS72

what if u don't eat meat? I need protein too! I am tired of eating nuts all day long. lol

I can't find where anyone answered your question amongst all the trolls and bickering! Check out this thread for some more ideas. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/312795-need-ideas-to-increate-protein

Off the top of my head I can think of the following non meat/nut ideas:
Lentils (Black Beluga from Trader Joe's are REALLY HIGH)
Greek Yogurt
Eggs
Quinoa
Beans
Peas
Tofu

ninerbuff

The correct diet for building muscle is the same regadless of size or sex, it's just scaled to your size. Not that I'm upset with you or upset at all but it does get old when people say "why do people care what body builders do".

Well, many body builders know a lot about nutrition for one thing. They have to have perfect nutrition to achieve what they achieve. It may not be practical to takeit to the extremes that they do, but the basic prinicples are the same.

#1- Get enough protein. 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass is the best number science has been able to identify for optimal muscle building potential.

#2- Fats and carbs are important. Most bodybuilders do take in large amounts of carbs, except during contest prep.

#3- Lift heavy

#4- set calorie intake to mean your goals, deficit to lose weight, surplus to gain weight.

These basic principles will work for anyone looking to build muscle. If you don't care how much muscle you have or lose then eat however little protein you like.

Not to mention that bodybuilders KNOW how to retain the most lean mass possible while dieting down to 4% bodyfat for a contest. I've competed and haven't ever gotten down to 4%! Closest I've gotten is 7% and I was pretty tight! It took 12 weeks of hard dieting and bland food. And this was in the mid eighties where the options for nutritional supplements were limited to a few companies and the protein powders tasted like chalk. Practically everything had to be mixed in a blender and we didn't have "magic bullet" or hand mixers to do it with. So it wasn't uncommon to have a cooler to keep your mixed drinks on ice to drink right after a workout.
Though today's bodybuilders are too freaky to take seriously, they still have the knowledge of what it takes to put on mass and keep it.

tigersword

Thanks for your response, mcrow. I have one more question, if you wouldn't mind.
You give a protein goal of 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass, but I often see 1 per kilogram. Is it per pound or per kilogram?


* skip the question, I just realized the answer!

For a NON-bodybuilder, the actual formula for calculating the daily protein requirement is 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight. For someone building muscle, it varies, it goes from 1 gram per pound of lean body mass, to to 1 gram per pound of total bodyweight. Of course, for most bodybuilders, lean body mass and total body weight are so close that the numbers are pretty much interchangeable. So it depends on your goal.

songbyrdsweet

In case anyone's still wondering, here's a website full of vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

Lol, comparing these competitors to top amateurs and pros would be like comparing my amateur skills in poker to a pro poker player. I'm not relevant when it comes to REAL competitions.

Looks legit to me.

liftingbro

Thanks for your response, mcrow. I have one more question, if you wouldn't mind.
You give a protein goal of 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass, but I often see 1 per kilogram. Is it per pound or per kilogram?


* skip the question, I just realized the answer!

1 per pound or ~2.7g per kg.

liftingbro

In case anyone's still wondering, here's a website full of vegan bodybuilders: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

Lol, comparing these competitors to top amateurs and pros would be like comparing my amateur skills in poker to a pro poker player. I'm not relevant when it comes to REAL competitions.

Looks legit to me.

Nobody said that you can't build muscle on a vegan diet. There are proteins that are vegan friendly. However, if you look at these guys compared to their non-vegan counterparts they are pretty small. They are very lean, but not very big.

liftingbro

The correct diet for building muscle is the same regadless of size or sex, it's just scaled to your size. Not that I'm upset with you or upset at all but it does get old when people say "why do people care what body builders do".

Well, many body builders know a lot about nutrition for one thing. They have to have perfect nutrition to achieve what they achieve. It may not be practical to takeit to the extremes that they do, but the basic prinicples are the same.

#1- Get enough protein. 1-1.5g per pound of lean mass is the best number science has been able to identify for optimal muscle building potential.

#2- Fats and carbs are important. Most bodybuilders do take in large amounts of carbs, except during contest prep.

#3- Lift heavy

#4- set calorie intake to mean your goals, deficit to lose weight, surplus to gain weight.

These basic principles will work for anyone looking to build muscle. If you don't care how much muscle you have or lose then eat however little protein you like.

Not to mention that bodybuilders KNOW how to retain the most lean mass possible while dieting down to 4% bodyfat for a contest. I've competed and haven't ever gotten down to 4%! Closest I've gotten is 7% and I was pretty tight! It took 12 weeks of hard dieting and bland food. And this was in the mid eighties where the options for nutritional supplements were limited to a few companies and the protein powders tasted like chalk. Practically everything had to be mixed in a blender and we didn't have "magic bullet" or hand mixers to do it with. So it wasn't uncommon to have a cooler to keep your mixed drinks on ice to drink right after a workout.
Though today's bodybuilders are too freaky to take seriously, they still have the knowledge of what it takes to put on mass and keep it.

There are still some very good natural bodybuilders that show you what good training, nutrition and genetics can do.

For me, the lowest I ever got was round 9-10% BF my senior season of wrestling. I don't have aspirations to be a bodybuilder but I would like to be in great shape with some decent muscle mass. So, for my goals the bodybuilder diet is the best way to go.

ninerbuff

Looks legit to me.

But in competition with other amateur and pro bodybuilders, these guys are "skinny". Now mind you I'd rather have their physiques for everyday life, but to put these guys in the same category Cutler, Heath and Greene......................nah.

liftingbro

Looks legit to me.

But in competition with other amateur and pro bodybuilders, these guys are "skinny". Now mind you I'd rather have their physiques for everyday life, but to put these guys in the same category Cutler, Heath and Greene......................nah.

They don't even compare to most of the all Natural guys either. I've seen pictures from natural Pro Qualifiers and a lot of those guys look like they have 20+ pounds on these guys.

songbyrdsweet

Looks legit to me.

But in competition with other amateur and pro bodybuilders, these guys are "skinny". Now mind you I'd rather have their physiques for everyday life, but to put these guys in the same category Cutler, Heath and Greene......................nah.

You do know that Cutler and the rest of the pros use, right? You're not comparing vegan to non-vegan...you're comparing vegan to steroids. The pro WOMEN are bigger than amateur guys.

liftingbro

Looks legit to me.

But in competition with other amateur and pro bodybuilders, these guys are "skinny". Now mind you I'd rather have their physiques for everyday life, but to put these guys in the same category Cutler, Heath and Greene......................nah.

You do know that Cutler and the rest of the pros use, right? You're not comparing vegan to non-vegan...you're comparing vegan to steroids. The pro WOMEN are bigger than amateur guys.

Yeah, you can't compare the vegans BBers to the Open Pros who are roided up. However, as I said, the natural pros and many ams are significantly larger than the vegans I've seen. Not to diminish their achievement, it's outstanding what they can achieve while on such a restrictive selection of food sources. I would kill to look like the vegan BBers, they are impressive, just not compared to non-vegans.