How much protein do you really need?

joejccva71

Honestly I think we're off the topic now. The discussion is more fun now.

SirBen81

Let's find some vegan forums and rile them up

bcattoes

C'mon, no need for this....you guys aren't even all that far off on your disagreement. I think all three of you understand the benefits of supplementing your resistance training with MORE protein than mainstream science typically recommends.

As for some of the BCATTO-Science... now that's another story.. LOL

I have no science. As I've stated several times, I follow the advice of others. Just not others on public web site which is not much more than Facebook with a fitness theme.

liftingbro

Nitrogen balance techniques suggest that the protein requirements to attain zero nitrogen balance in those that engage in resistance training range from 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight [1-6]. FYI: 1.2 grams per kg = 0.54 grams per pound and 2.2 grams per kg = 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.



Read the NIH studies I posted above.

People unqualified to properly interpret scientific studies are better off reading the recommendations of organizations such as the NIH, rather than picking individual studies to read.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002467.htm

How about reading the summary of 15 studies that I posted that was written by a highly qualified individual.

I glanced at it but didn't have time for it all right now. I will try to read it all later, but the key word for me here is still "individual". An individual study of other studies is still just one study. So, unless the leading health organizations change their recommendations based on this individual study then I won't think it has overwhelming medical significance when looked at in combination with other available evidence. As I said, I trust health organizations.

Do you do this just to piss me off? Seriously, I said it was a summary of 15 STUDIES. It's not an indivual study for the love of Pete.

Who summarized?

Thomas L. Halton, he has a Ph.D in science nutrition from Harvard and masters in both Exercise Science and Human Nutrition. He is a ceertifed Nutrition Specialist and Certified trainer.

Frank Hu (Ph.D, M.P.H,was a Co-Author here and I thin he is the direct of Harvard's Nutrtion Director.

joejccva71

Let's find some vegan forums and rile them up

I'm game.=)

bcattoes

Nitrogen balance techniques suggest that the protein requirements to attain zero nitrogen balance in those that engage in resistance training range from 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight [1-6]. FYI: 1.2 grams per kg = 0.54 grams per pound and 2.2 grams per kg = 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.



Read the NIH studies I posted above.

People unqualified to properly interpret scientific studies are better off reading the recommendations of organizations such as the NIH, rather than picking individual studies to read.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002467.htm

How about reading the summary of 15 studies that I posted that was written by a highly qualified individual.

I glanced at it but didn't have time for it all right now. I will try to read it all later, but the key word for me here is still "individual". An individual study of other studies is still just one study. So, unless the leading health organizations change their recommendations based on this individual study then I won't think it has overwhelming medical significance when looked at in combination with other available evidence. As I said, I trust health organizations.

Do you do this just to piss me off? Seriously, I said it was a summary of 15 STUDIES. It's not an indivual study for the love of Pete.

Who summarized?

Thomas L. Halton, he has a Ph.D in science nutrition from Harvard and masters in both Exercise Science and Human Nutrition. He is a ceertifed Nutrition Specialist and Certified trainer.

Frank Hu (Ph.D, M.P.H,was a Co-Author here and I thin he is the direct of Harvard's Nutrtion Director.

Then I will do my best to read it as Harvard is my favorite source for medical science (LOVE to read Walter Willet!). I will also check the Harvard School of Public Health for their recommendations on protein consumption, but the last time I checked they went with the Institue of Medicine recommendations of .8 g per kg of weight. Which is what MFP recommends as a default.

particleastro

So from what Ive read on here weve got someone whos shouting that they know it all, and someone else whos shouting that they know it all AND has gotten results AND can cite references AND has personal experience, as do I, of the sort of protein levels that BBers are accustomed to.

Just for the record I also have a degree, a masters and a PhD, but in Physics. Theres no opinions in Physics....just facts and people in denial. It appears we have a similar case here.

liftingbro

Nitrogen balance techniques suggest that the protein requirements to attain zero nitrogen balance in those that engage in resistance training range from 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight [1-6]. FYI: 1.2 grams per kg = 0.54 grams per pound and 2.2 grams per kg = 1 gram per pound of bodyweight.



Read the NIH studies I posted above.

People unqualified to properly interpret scientific studies are better off reading the recommendations of organizations such as the NIH, rather than picking individual studies to read.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002467.htm

How about reading the summary of 15 studies that I posted that was written by a highly qualified individual.

I glanced at it but didn't have time for it all right now. I will try to read it all later, but the key word for me here is still "individual". An individual study of other studies is still just one study. So, unless the leading health organizations change their recommendations based on this individual study then I won't think it has overwhelming medical significance when looked at in combination with other available evidence. As I said, I trust health organizations.

Do you do this just to piss me off? Seriously, I said it was a summary of 15 STUDIES. It's not an indivual study for the love of Pete.

Who summarized?

Thomas L. Halton, he has a Ph.D in science nutrition from Harvard and masters in both Exercise Science and Human Nutrition. He is a ceertifed Nutrition Specialist and Certified trainer.

Frank Hu (Ph.D, M.P.H,was a Co-Author here and I thin he is the direct of Harvard's Nutrtion Director.

Then I will do my best to read it as Harvard is my favorite source for medical science (LOVE to read Walter Willet!). I will also check the Harvard School of Public Health for their recommendations on protein consumption, but the last time I checked they went with the Institue of Medicine recommendations of .8 g per kg of weight. Which is what MFP recommends as a default.

OK, I'm trying to be helpful here. I think when discussion nutrtion on here you need to drop the whole RDA thing. RDA is just what they recommend for general health. We are discussing buidling muscle and weight loss, neither of which have the Intitute of Medicine even looked at when it comes to most nutritents.

If you are trying to lose weight or build muscle and using the RDA arguement you do not realize that the government does not test their recommendations for these two dietary needs. They give their info out on what will keep you healthy. Heck, they don't even say if more or less is unhealthy, just that the number they give is healthy.

ninerbuff

I go by the national standards. I don't read one study and think it's just proved something because it's findings contradict the national standards. There are thousands of people doing research, studying and comparing others research, analysing past and present results to detemine what it all means. They spend their lives doing it and stake their reputations on their advice. So, I choose to follow thier advice here in my own little world.

Well, regardless of the all the information you've received on "muscle building" while on calorie deficit and believing it happened when you did cardio, I really doubt you take any information as "gospel" if it contradicted your belief.

joejccva71

So from what Ive read on here weve got someone whos shouting that they know it all, and someone else whos shouting that they know it all AND has gotten results AND can cite references AND has personal experience, as do I, of the sort of protein levels that BBers are accustomed to.

Just for the record I also have a degree, a masters and a PhD, but in Physics. Theres no opinions in Physics....just facts and people in denial. It appears we have a similar case here.

I never claimed to "know it all". I am knowledgeable but I don't know anywhere near as much as guys like Alan, Lyle, Martin, etc.

I normally quote studies from NIH because they basically run the Federal Health Department here in Washington DC. All they do 24 hours a day is research and studies. NIH and Harvard are really the only places left that I trust.

For someone (like Song) that is working toward her PhD that calls out broscience on the fact that higher protein intake than normal is required by athletes and bodybuilder's is just plain ignorant. Obviously someone that is just trying to lose weight doesn't need 2g of protein per lb of LBM, but someone that is trying to compete or someone that is in a Strongman competition would need that much. Anything extra that is consumed would be pissed out anyway.

NeuroticVirgo

If I comment on the misguidedbutwellmeant comments (you translate that) by the anti-protein folks here I will be banned.

Ha! To funny!

SirBen81

This is because rather than ending world hunger, most people would rather that abundant food supply be fed to the cows who are living miserable lives in their own excrement so that they can enjoy a "tasty" burger. I would rather live off of nothing but lentils and rice for the rest of my life than have to know what I'm doing not only to animals and the environment, but to people all over the world.

You realize if we all stopped eating beef then cows would go extinct. They have no purposes other then being eaten, producing dairy, and leather. They cannot survive alone in the wild. They need us to eat them. You're not doing cows, as a species, any favors by boycotting the only product they have to offer.

liftingbro

I go by the national standards. I don't read one study and think it's just proved something because it's findings contradict the national standards. There are thousands of people doing research, studying and comparing others research, analysing past and present results to detemine what it all means. They spend their lives doing it and stake their reputations on their advice. So, I choose to follow thier advice here in my own little world.

Well, regardless of the all the information you've received on "muscle building" while on calorie deficit and believing it happened when you did cardio, I really doubt you take any information as "gospel" if it contradicted your belief.

TK421NotAtPost

So from what Ive read on here weve got someone whos shouting that they know it all, and someone else whos shouting that they know it all AND has gotten results AND can cite references AND has personal experience, as do I, of the sort of protein levels that BBers are accustomed to.

Just for the record I also have a degree, a masters and a PhD, but in Physics. Theres no opinions in Physics....just facts and people in denial. It appears we have a similar case here.

I spun my wheels in the weight room for quite some time till I decided to increase my protein. What does this prove? It proves that eating lots and lots of protein works for ME. Of course, according to some RDA Bible followers here, I should be super-fat because of all the excess protein I'm eating.

torie079

Carbs is the biggest culprit...I lift weights and have a very active lifestyle...protein is what helps me keep my muscle tone and strength. Just because your a vegan doesn't mean it is THE WAY to be. Mankind has survived through the ages and meat had a very BIG part in our survival. People tell you to eat a bowl of special K or toast instead of eating eggs and bacon...but toast and whole wheat bread are high on the glycemic index. We eat far too many carbs compared to protein.

liftingbro

Carbs is the biggest culprit...I lift weights and have a very active lifestyle...protein is what helps me keep my muscle tone and strength. Just because your a vegan doesn't mean it is THE WAY to be. Mankind has survived through the ages and meat had a very BIG part in our survival. People tell you to eat a bowl of special K or toast instead of eating eggs and bacon...but toast and whole wheat bread are high on the glycemic index. We eat far too many carbs compared to protein.

None of the macros are the culprit. You need good balance for best performance and you need carbs to build muscle as well as protein. I think protein is overall more important to certain goals than carbs andf fats but you need both of those to have balanced nutrition.

joejccva71

I would love to have someone tell Dorian Yates that he should only be consuming .5g-1g of protein per lb of his LBM or Bodyweight. He would quickly tell you to go <being MFP compliant> yourself.

Ms_Natalie

Hi guys,

Can I just ask you all to please respect each other and continue to discuss this topic in a civil way? If you attack each other..then the thread will be locked and deleted and this thread, I believe holds key information for many MFP users out there. It's not hard to fight your corner in a civil manner and get your point across...so please, stick to the rules.

Many thanks,

Natalie

MyFitnessPal Forum Moderator :flowerforyou:

torie079

Yes...you do need both... But people eat MORE carbs then they need and it gets stored as fat if not used...that's all I was saying.

torie079

That would be awesome... Lol it's unfortunate that I never find a lean choice for a burger