Shakeology?!?

Acg67

$3 to $4 a shake is a pretty good indication of markup.

Have you attempted to go out and buy all of the individual ingredients in Shakeology and put them together on your own and see how well you do? Even buy pills and stuff to take the place of what you get in it? I bet you can't do it for under $4.
Looking strictly at price tells you nothing.

actually i could probably create a similar formula with much better ingredients for less then $4

prob something along the lines of aor orthro core/source naturals life force + green vibrance + trutein would do the trick

Ok, go do that, let us all know how it turns out and compares and then sell us YOUR shake.

if you look at the ingredient profile of those products and compare them to shakeology, you'd notice that there are no prop blends and they use superior forms of vitamins. quality counts, right?

tinkphoenix

Proper analogy would be a markup of snakeology to another meal replacement shake or to a protein shake.

Not something totally unrelated.

You going to compare your markups to Debeer diamonds now? :laugh:

Sure. Whats the difference? i don't feel any better about 1000% markup on diamonds as I do about it on my food or furniture...

Apparently you are okay with it for your shakeology

1) I accept markups as a natural part of life. They are what provide jobs, put people to work, create businesses. 2) I don't care about the markup (no one really should) - I care about the VALUE to ME. For me, Shakeology has worked miracles. I still eat healthy and educate myself on good nutrition, but I love the shake and that's it. 3) I also don't care if Sony and Samsung mark up their electronics 1000%. If I need it and want it and find value in it, I buy it. Same thing with diamonds. It is life. I accept it. 4) I don't believe there's 1000% markup anyway - but, once again, that is irrelevant to the fact that I find value in it and it works for what I need

Jeff92se

You might not care but the rest of us care about value for $ spent. We don't have to accept it. To alot of us, there are alternatives that are cheaper.

I just don't get the fact that you keep stating "it works for me" all the time. If it works for you and you're the only one you need to convince, why post in defense of this product all the time? Whey protein works for me but I don't get upset when somene thinks it's not a valid method. As long as they present some good points about why.

tinkphoenix

You might not care but the rest of us care about value for $ spent. We don't have to accept it. To alot of us, there are alternatives that are cheaper.

I just don't get the fact that you keep stating "it works for me" all the time. If it works for you and you're the only one you need to convince, why post in defense of this product all the time? Whey protein works for me but I don't get upset when somene thinks it's not a valid method. As long as they present some good points about why.

Ok, first that was the first time I even said "it works for me." Second, I don't believe anyone has posted any valid points. Only those that haven't tried it aren't convinced of its value...to me, that's not a good why. And "markup" is not a valid why.

Here, if it helps, I will give you my friend's success stories (I never did share my own, but I assume you don't care):
After two months of using Shakeology, my friend Andrew went from hypertensive blood pressure (168/117) to normal (110/73) without changing anything else in his life. He was already working out and trying to eat healthier.

My friend, AJ, got taken off of 75% of his diabetes medication and no long has to take insulin shots.

My friend, Stephanie, cured her lifelong digestive issues and no longer has to take a $60/month medication that she hated.

Ask those people if they see the VALUE?

There are countless other stories, but I'm done with this conversation. You're right. Let people be happy with the way they do things. Don't knock a product based on your perceptions of its markup or value if you can't speak first hand. Have a great day!

tchrnmommy

And GNC guarantees all products for 30 days. Even if you used it all up.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Totally off the topic of Shakeology. Don't use it myself. I use a 100% Whey protein shake with 1g Sugar and 24g Protein....

But I'm asking/addressing THIS statement quoted.....that's not what MY receipt says. It says NO refunds if opened. My husband bought a supplement for energy/thermo...something (not a educated supplement person) when he took it the appetite suppressant was too powerful (he has no need to be on a weight loss program....if anything he's trying to bulk up a bit) and the reciept says "No Refunds" if opened. And I'm pissed because we spent $75 on the ****!

Jeff92se

The guy on the twinkie diet lost weight, his choloresteral levels went down etc......Was it the shake or the fact that they went on a calorie deficit? Did they use the shakes and made up the calories somewhere else so the only diff was the shakes?

UsedToBeHusky

I am NOT a sales rep - as I said - I ONLY signed up for the discount.

And in exchange for the discount, you promote the product. That makes you a sales rep.

Jeff92se

I am NOT a sales rep - as I said - I ONLY signed up for the discount.

And in exchange for the discount, you promote the product. That makes you a sales rep.

I suppose this is why the shakeology group is gathering tumbleweeds. Why promote to people that already use it?

ninerbuff

Are you kidding me? You don't think sales clerks get paid commissions?

Being a former manager at Circuit City and knowing how Best Buy works, I can assure you they don't get paid commission.

Or the guy that loads it into your truck doesn't get paid to do it? Or maybe get some benefits, like health insurance, workman's comp, etc? Why the hatred of MLMs?

They guy that loads the tv gets paid on the clock and NOT by how many tvs he loads into a vehicle. People who work to get benefits PAY for them. MLM's are scams straight up. The "sales" people's purchases are what's paying upline and corporate millions, but they receive little compensation in return. Sounds like a business model, however the sales people are independent contractors and very, very, very few make any real money doing it. Ratio is 1 out of every 75 people make decent money on an MLM.

How about we compare an unemployed person making zero money for their time sitting at home. Then they decide to go out and get a personal training cert and charge somebody $60 an hour for their time. That's an infinite markup. Is that so bad? If you hate MLMs, you really just hate anyone that doesn't work a standard job and put in 40 hours a week "working for the man." There's really no difference when you get down to it.

If you read my post above, to "prey" on people with the promises of "getting rich" and "being their own boss" by investing a good amount of money (whether in a lump sum or monthly) with products that aren't really any better than what's on the market for a fraction of the price, and having them keep doing it with minimal chance of return is SCAMMING people out of hard earned money.
Read the success rates of people who start at an MLM. You'll find that very very very few actually make it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

So is a $2000 tv a pretty good indication of a markup? Or how about a $2000 mattress versus a $500 - more markup? Or is it worth it for the better quality?

Have you attempted to go out and buy all of the individual ingredients in Shakeology and put them together on your own and see how well you do? Even buy pills and stuff to take the place of what you get in it? I bet you can't do it for under $4.
Looking strictly at price tells you nothing.

The sad truth is what most companies do is start with a quality product and then remove crap until it becomes consumer "price acceptable" - at which point, it is essentially crap.

If you're going to make an argument, at least make a better one than that. Maybe find some comparable products and post a spreadsheet or something. Straight price means nothing.

Everything sold has a mark up, but if the mark up is because it's being paid to people who have had NO HAND in a sale then it's bogus. EX: the upline of you upline makes money on a sale you made. That upline had NOTHING to do with manufacturing, sponsoring, meeting or supplying a lead, creating information on how to sell, etc. YET MAKES MONEY.
It's getting profit from people who just happen to be in the downline of people that were introduced by that person.
Should I make money from another trainers clients (who I've never spoke with or met) because I may have educated that trainer? And if you think so, then should that client pay more so that I can be compensated?

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Totally off the topic of Shakeology. Don't use it myself. I use a 100% Whey protein shake with 1g Sugar and 24g Protein....

But I'm asking/addressing THIS statement quoted.....that's not what MY receipt says. It says NO refunds if opened. My husband bought a supplement for energy/thermo...something (not a educated supplement person) when he took it the appetite suppressant was too powerful (he has no need to be on a weight loss program....if anything he's trying to bulk up a bit) and the reciept says "No Refunds" if opened. And I'm pissed because we spent $75 on the ****!

Here's their return policy. And in it it says "unused and used" product.

http://www.gnc.com/helpdesk/index.jsp?display=returns&subdisplay=mbg


A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

tchrnmommy

THanks Niner... but I just realized we went to Supplement Superstore....not GNC...crap!

tinkphoenix

So is a $2000 tv a pretty good indication of a markup? Or how about a $2000 mattress versus a $500 - more markup? Or is it worth it for the better quality?

Have you attempted to go out and buy all of the individual ingredients in Shakeology and put them together on your own and see how well you do? Even buy pills and stuff to take the place of what you get in it? I bet you can't do it for under $4.
Looking strictly at price tells you nothing.

The sad truth is what most companies do is start with a quality product and then remove crap until it becomes consumer "price acceptable" - at which point, it is essentially crap.

If you're going to make an argument, at least make a better one than that. Maybe find some comparable products and post a spreadsheet or something. Straight price means nothing.

Everything sold has a mark up, but if the mark up is because it's being paid to people who have had NO HAND in a sale then it's bogus. EX: the upline of you upline makes money on a sale you made. That upline had NOTHING to do with manufacturing, sponsoring, meeting or supplying a lead, creating information on how to sell, etc. YET MAKES MONEY.

That's not even true. In most MLMs, commissions will only get paid through 3 levels and usually at least one of those other levels has a hand in sale beside the one doing the selling. I have had many a 3-way phone call, webinar, meetings, etc. with 3 levels or more. MLM is not about recruiting and abandoning. You have to help and mentor and educate your team - if you want to be successful that is.

It's getting profit from people who just happen to be in the downline of people that were introduced by that person.
Should I make money from another trainers clients (who I've never spoke with or met) because I may have educated that trainer? And if you think so, then should that client pay more so that I can be compensated?

I understand what you are essentially saying...but think about it like this: in an MLM, bonuses are paid from the tiny little peon to the top dog. In other words, bonuses are paid MORE FAIRLY than they are in corporate America. Do you think the CEO of Bank of America has anything to do with me opening a checking account? No. Does he get paid a big fat bonus when the bank takes my money and lends it out to someone else at a huge profit? Yes (hell, they get bonused when their companies lose money!). Same thing in the rest of corporate America. Executives get the big fat bonuses, while the worker bees get their hourly rate and some benefits if they're lucky.

tinkphoenix

Are you kidding me? You don't think sales clerks get paid commissions?

Being a former manager at Circuit City and knowing how Best Buy works, I can assure you they don't get paid commission.

So you assume that because Best Buy and the now non-existent Circuit don't pay sales commissions, that's the way all sales operate? That's outright silly and you know it.

Or the guy that loads it into your truck doesn't get paid to do it? Or maybe get some benefits, like health insurance, workman's comp, etc? Why the hatred of MLMs?

They guy that loads the tv gets paid on the clock and NOT by how many tvs he loads into a vehicle. People who work to get benefits PAY for them. MLM's are scams straight up. The "sales" people's purchases are what's paying upline and corporate millions, but they receive little compensation in return. Sounds like a business model, however the sales people are independent contractors and very, very, very few make any real money doing it. Ratio is 1 out of every 75 people make decent money on an MLM.

Actually, the sad fact is that it has NOTHING to do with the business model. It is the statistic of America. Look of the stats on how quickly most new businesses fail and how many of them do. MLM stats reveal the same thing as you see in any other business...only MLMs don't require a huge investment up front (how about a million dollar franchise fee for McD's) in order to try and start the business.

ninerbuff

That's not even true. In most MLMs, commissions will only get paid through 3 levels and usually at least one of those other levels has a hand in sale beside the one doing the selling. I have had many a 3-way phone call, webinar, meetings, etc. with 3 levels or more. MLM is not about recruiting and abandoning. You have to help and mentor and educate your team - if you want to be successful that is.

When a "new" recruit is signed and pays upfront (say $500) as a "business fee" where does the majority of that money go? To the seller or the upline RVP? I can guarantee the upline. And what of the ones that you don't have 3 way calls with, but a sale is rendered? Should you be paid for not having a hand in it? Simple question.

I understand what you are essentially saying...but think about it like this: in an MLM, bonuses are paid from the tiny little peon to the top dog. In other words, bonuses are paid MORE FAIRLY than they are in corporate America. Do you think the CEO of Bank of America has anything to do with me opening a checking account? No. Does he get paid a big fat bonus when the bank takes my money and lends it out to someone else at a huge profit? Yes (hell, they get bonused when their companies lose money!). Same thing in the rest of corporate America. Executives get the big fat bonuses, while the worker bees get their hourly rate and some benefits if they're lucky.

While that's true, the point I'm making it that the expense of the sales people (by their own purchases) is what is supporting the upline. It's not from an individual selling the product. The whole point of an MLM is not to sell the product, but to get others to JOIN and continue BUYING and USING the product and continuing the cycle. If and individual sold a couple of people a month, their commision is a few dollars. But if they get someone to join, then that person gets someone to join, and so on, the compounding sales is how the money accumulates. You know what I'm saying is true.
My dad did Amway for years while still working a full time job. I watched as my dad got some people to join while he gave up weekends to do demos or sits. After 9 years of doing it, he quit, but still buys the washing detergent because my mom likes it.
So I'm very familiar with MLM's (ACN, Melaluca, Shakeology, etc.) and know the model. While it sounds promising to many who want to become their own bosses, the success rate is very low for the average starter.



A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

So you assume that because Best Buy and the now non-existent Circuit don't pay sales commissions, that's the way all sales operate? That's outright silly and you know it.

Of course not. Car salesman, realtors, and most DIRECT sales people make commission. I was speaking in terms of buying a product off the shelves. The clerk at Safeway who rings you out, the clerk at Costco, the clerk at McDonald's, etc. They don't make extra money for doing this.

Actually, the sad fact is that it has NOTHING to do with the business model. It is the statistic of America. Look of the stats on how quickly most new businesses fail and how many of them do. MLM stats reveal the same thing as you see in any other business...only MLMs don't require a huge investment up front (how about a million dollar franchise fee for McD's) in order to try and start the business.

80% of practically all new businesses fail in the first 8 months. I know the statistics. And while the investment may be small (although for many starters it's not small to them) to not INVEST monthly in usage of product would mean immediate failure. How can someone legitamately sell something that they themselves don't use? So essentially your kinda FORCED into it.
My aunt tried ACN. It was $500 up front. Then she HAD to buy a video phone so she could demonstrate and that wasn't cheap. There was no COLD sales involved so it basically was pitched to friends a relatives. There were a few that came aboard, but it was because the wanted to help my aunt out, not necessarily because they needed a video phone. When it was all said and done, she made $11 the whole year she did it. She tried the best she could and while she wasn't a natural sales person, she did put in a lot of time and effort. I may be biased against them, but I still honestly believe that it's the way MLM's operate that is such a turn off. If some one quits, then there isn't an consolidation from upline. Rather it's the attitude that "there's other fish in the sea" mentality.


A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

honeysprinkles

Right, but the percentage markup on MLM products tends to be much higher to support that particular business model.

And you know this because you are an expert in how much stores markup their products versus MLMs? have you research, a paper, a model, an article? Or is this just based on your ASSUMPTION of how the model works?

yay someone who is a certified trainer and nutritionist, i've been trying to get these questions answered, maybe you can?

I'm possibly interested in trying out shakeology, but before i do, I'd like the following questions answered. So no PMs or anything like that until these questions are answered in the thread. Thanks!

1. Is shakeology manufactured in a facility meeting the following complience standards?
NSF Certification Guideline 306
NSF GMP Registration Policies
GMP requirements in NSF/ANSI Standard 173 Section 8
NNfA GMP Certified

2. Can you provide any 3rd party COAs for shakeolgy?

3. Since shakeology is a MRP, why does it not use slower digesting proteins such as micellar casein or a blend of proteins?

4. Shakeolgy is touted as low GI certified, what relavance does that have to the avg person and why are their shakeology recipes on the site which would then change the GI of the shake?

5. Why does it use cyanocobalmin instead of methylcobalin?

6. why does it use only the alpha from of tocophenyl instead of a full spectrum of tocerpherols and tocotrienols (alpha, beta, delta, gamma)?

7. why does it use plain niacin instead of inositol hexanicotinate?

8. why does it use just beta catrotene instead of both alpha and beta carotenes?

9. according to the marketing material shakeolgy "Shakeology was specially formulated for the collection of ingredients to work together like a symphony" can you provide any peer reviewed researching showing that all the compounds esp in the prop blends work synergistically and are in the proper amounts? Just off the top of my head i know that zinc depends on copper for optimum utilization, optimally in a 10 to 1 ratio (shakeology has a 7.5:1 ratio, which may lead to the suppression of copper-based antioxidant enzymes)

10. since there is an abundant use of prop blends, how can i tell if all the extra ingredients are in their optimal dosages that have shown benefits to humans or just label filler?

these are just a few i have off the top of my head after looking label and website

I just saw this thread, and I'm glad I read through it. I am admittedly one of those people who knows next-to-nothing about any of this and I found myself buying into the shakeology hype as well. But it seems like you've asked some really good questions, and I'm assuming that if shakeology was as good as everyone says it is someone would've answered them by now. Unless I missed it?

ninerbuff

I just saw this thread, and I'm glad I read through it. I am admittedly one of those people who knows next-to-nothing about any of this and I found myself buying into the shakeology hype as well. But it seems like you've asked some really good questions, and I'm assuming that if shakeology was as good as everyone says it is someone would've answered them by now. Unless I missed it?

This has been going on for a few months. Many "coaches" get defensive when questioned about manufacturing, actual ingredients, their actual knowledge of it, etc. It's sad when me and Acg know more about it than the sellers do.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

tinkphoenix

Right, but the percentage markup on MLM products tends to be much higher to support that particular business model.

And you know this because you are an expert in how much stores markup their products versus MLMs? have you research, a paper, a model, an article? Or is this just based on your ASSUMPTION of how the model works?

yay someone who is a certified trainer and nutritionist, i've been trying to get these questions answered, maybe you can?

I'm possibly interested in trying out shakeology, but before i do, I'd like the following questions answered. So no PMs or anything like that until these questions are answered in the thread. Thanks!

1. Is shakeology manufactured in a facility meeting the following complience standards?
NSF Certification Guideline 306
NSF GMP Registration Policies
GMP requirements in NSF/ANSI Standard 173 Section 8
NNfA GMP Certified

2. Can you provide any 3rd party COAs for shakeolgy?

3. Since shakeology is a MRP, why does it not use slower digesting proteins such as micellar casein or a blend of proteins?

4. Shakeolgy is touted as low GI certified, what relavance does that have to the avg person and why are their shakeology recipes on the site which would then change the GI of the shake?

5. Why does it use cyanocobalmin instead of methylcobalin?

6. why does it use only the alpha from of tocophenyl instead of a full spectrum of tocerpherols and tocotrienols (alpha, beta, delta, gamma)?

7. why does it use plain niacin instead of inositol hexanicotinate?

8. why does it use just beta catrotene instead of both alpha and beta carotenes?

9. according to the marketing material shakeolgy "Shakeology was specially formulated for the collection of ingredients to work together like a symphony" can you provide any peer reviewed researching showing that all the compounds esp in the prop blends work synergistically and are in the proper amounts? Just off the top of my head i know that zinc depends on copper for optimum utilization, optimally in a 10 to 1 ratio (shakeology has a 7.5:1 ratio, which may lead to the suppression of copper-based antioxidant enzymes)

10. since there is an abundant use of prop blends, how can i tell if all the extra ingredients are in their optimal dosages that have shown benefits to humans or just label filler?

these are just a few i have off the top of my head after looking label and website

I just saw this thread, and I'm glad I read through it. I am admittedly one of those people who knows next-to-nothing about any of this and I found myself buying into the shakeology hype as well. But it seems like you've asked some really good questions, and I'm assuming that if shakeology was as good as everyone says it is someone would've answered them by now. Unless I missed it?

Actually I could respond to most of those questions, but it's obvious it was just thrown up there to make someone sound really smart and cool and like the people that take the product don't know what they're taking. Most of it bears no relevance on the "normal" consumer. And where does half of it even come from? Are you a scientist? A manufacturing expert? Or do you just spend an awful lot of time on google and really enjoy harassing people that use and believe in the product?

Somebody asked for an opinion on Shakeology at the beginning of this thread and people have given them. Everyone who has actually used the product or is using it gives great reviews. Only those that don't use it or think "it's too expensive" keep dogging it. It's just not a worthwhile discussion any more. Running in circles.

And, by the way, you can't accuse most (or any?) of the people on here that have given it great reviews as only saying so because they can make a buck. So far as I have seen, nobody had been posting links to their websites to earn a commission - therefore, they have had nothing to gain.

Jeff92se

IMHO when you tout your ingredients as coming from healthy/natural sources, the burden of proof falls on you to know exactly where they come from and why