Any atheists/pagans/wiccans out there? :)

Bentley2718

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Not to mention the whole "separation of church and state" thing.

That idea got shot to hell a long time ago. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints single-handedly overturned gay marriage in California. WITH THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

Ugh. I'm gonna start going off if I get into this stuff.

Which is why while I love my mormon relatives, I hate the mormon church. (Although I wouldn't say they did it single-handledly, there was a lot more than that involved in the voting, and an interesting argument to be made that Obama actually drew out first-time voters, who were more socially conservative than typical California voters.)

Have you watched the documentary - 8: The Mormon Proposition? Very good.

I haven't, my husband won't let me because he doesn't want to deal with me on the war path for a long period of time. I have however, been involved (e.g. volunteering) in the political movement for same-sex marriage, so I'm reasonably aware of the amount of money certain religious organizations have pumped into the issue on the opposing side.

krystonite

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

nitka653

Agnostic, although I lean more towards a combination of Christianity and Wiccan combined (sounds weird, I know). I also believe in science, and the evolution theory as well.

I don't think it's weird at all. I was raised very strictly christian. My mom still is, but i believe in more. Because of my upbringing, any religious acts always have an element of Christianity in them. I often "pray" but am actually meditating and maybe reciting a self-written spell. I sing christian christmas carols and grin at the irony because almost every song could be pagan based if we thought about it.

I consider myself much like the original poster that I'm kinda a mix. I don't hold anything against other religions except when their beliefs become hateful or controlling. To each there own is my motto!

krystonite

Also if you like to debate about religion (there's 10 pages here, clearly some of you do) there's a group for you!

Debatable Debating! Argue with strangers about whatever you want! Join today!

I love giving plugs.

I want to be in it. What's the group?

Elizabeth_C34

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Ughhhh that's a topic it always frustrates me because of how narrow minded they are and they're the ones running our country. Like Gingrich statement "It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization."

Really?

What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.

While homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece, it was very socially taboo in Rome especially male-male homosexuality. It was considered "weak" for a man to be "entered" (for lack of a better politically correct term to use). If a man was raped or in any way "entered" either voluntarily or not, he was often ostricized from society, stripped of his wealth, and considered an outcast for life along with his children. Lesbianism was more of a sexual kink than a form of legitimate relationship in Rome also.

15in8

Atheist looking forward to (and witnessing) the increasing spread of a rationalist meme and more probability based thinking.

brittanyjeanxo

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

Probably :laugh: NC is gorgeous, but unfortunately, the south, in general, is just not a tolerant place. I know, I grew up in it.

krystonite

I think it's interesting a study recently conducted that showed that more atheists in America understand the bible than do devout christians.

I know more about the bible and the Qu'ran than most of my Christian and Muslim friends do respectively. I enjoy reading religious texts and understanding them in their historical contexts.

<-- WEE bit of a history buff.

Ditto.

I'm currently reading: Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality by John Boswell

That's a good one.

Have you read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond yet? It's not really a religious history book per se, but touches on a lot of the historical context surrounding the times when certain faiths came about and when and how they propagated.

Yes!!!!!! I absolutely love that book.

You should also check out Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. Great book on the history of science (also includes remarks on science and religion and how most of our understanding came about).

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

lyssamichelle

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Elizabeth_C34

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

YES book club!

Bentley2718

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

I gave up years ago, trying to discuss research with people who don't want to hear about it doesn't do anything but waste time and frustrate you (maybe a bad attitude on my part, but it really is my experience).

brittanyjeanxo

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

I can understand that to a certain degree. It must be really hard.

Elizabeth_C34

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Have you checked out any Unitarian churches? They are very open-minded folks, and very friendly in my experience.

brittanyjeanxo

Please do feel free to continue this thread in a CIVIL way like we all have been. I really am very glad that everyone here has been so thoughtful and great If someone comes in trolling, PLEASE don't reply! Just report them and be on your merry way. I am going to hit the hay, but I am looking forward to seeing more replies tomorrow. Keep 'em coming! :drinker: Good night, all!

krystonite

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

Okay, you finally got me. I haven't read that one. But I will officially add it to my list

krystonite

Please do feel free to continue this thread in a CIVIL way like we all have been. I really am very glad that everyone here has been so thoughtful and great If someone comes in trolling, PLEASE don't reply! Just report them and be on your merry way. I am going to hit the hay, but I am looking forward to seeing more replies tomorrow. Keep 'em coming! :drinker: Good night, all!

Night night.

I'm gonna head to bed as well. Night all.

Elizabeth_C34

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

Okay, you finally got me. I haven't read that one. But I will officially add it to my list

All the Dalai Lama's books are very well written. It's like sitting down chatting with an old friend. He's a wonderful writer.

I would also suggest The Ethics of the New Millenium. Slightly outdated, but still very good. (by the Dalai Lama also).

Bentley2718

What I'm about to say has absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs at all. This is just a simple point I'm stating based on the "unless there is evidence, scientific or not, that there is/are God(s), Goddess(es) or any type of deity, someone will not believe they exist", it is kind of what people used to say when it was first said the Earth was round, our planet wasn't the center of the Universe and the Sun would spin round our planet, when people didn't know about gravity, etc.

I respect and support anyone who believes in anything just as much as those who don't believe in anything at all. But when it comes about proof, not even science can deny the existence of things just because they can't explain it.

If you want a better example of what God is, God is everything. Not a guy sitting up there in the sky (heaven) watching everything we do. God is everything and all of us. Interpretation has a lot to do when it comes about manipulation of religions. Even when the statement "we are made in the image of God" has been interpreted as "we" humans, but the truth is, "we" is just everything that exist, whether is living and non-living. God is energy, just a conscious energy that keeps everything in balance.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You believe god is everything, that's great for you, but what's the bigger point?

There's no bigger point, my point is that in a certain way someone saying they don't believe in God because there is no evidence or it hasn't been proved, it makes me think of all the times people didn't and still don't believe in events or facts just because science doesn't have the tools to "prove" the origins and its existence. In that sense I like more Quantum physics.

Science doesn't prove anything, proof is not the purpose or project of science. What science can do is demonstrate that certain testable hypotheses are likely to be false. I think that the agnostic point about the untestability of the existence of god is well-made. We can't test the existence of god, so god is a matter of faith. It follows that ANY choice of belief is equally valid and should be respected (I would add so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to make their own choices about belief, but that is just me).

MarCarCas

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Ughhhh that's a topic it always frustrates me because of how narrow minded they are and they're the ones running our country. Like Gingrich statement "It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization."

Really?

What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.

While homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece, it was very socially taboo in Rome especially male-male homosexuality. It was considered "weak" for a man to be "entered" (for lack of a better politically correct term to use). If a man was raped or in any way "entered" either voluntarily or not, he was often ostricized from society, stripped of his wealth, and considered an outcast for life along with his children. Lesbianism was more of a sexual kink than a form of legitimate relationship in Rome also.

That's true, it was not as accepted as in Greece. I was just thinking of Hadrian and Antinous, but I forgot about the stern 'virtuous' Roman culture of masculinity.

lyssamichelle

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Have you checked out any Unitarian churches? They are very open-minded folks, and very friendly in my experience.

I haven't, the only church I've gone to is a church of christ. The preacher acts like I live close, every time he sees me he tells me how I need to come more often. I live a good 45 mins away. Those people turned me off from the whole church going experience.
I'll have to look in to that though, thanks.