Any atheists/pagans/wiccans out there? :)

Bentley2718

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Not to mention the whole "separation of church and state" thing.

That idea got shot to hell a long time ago. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints single-handedly overturned gay marriage in California. WITH THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS.

Ugh. I'm gonna start going off if I get into this stuff.

Which is why while I love my mormon relatives, I hate the mormon church. (Although I wouldn't say they did it single-handledly, there was a lot more than that involved in the voting, and an interesting argument to be made that Obama actually drew out first-time voters, who were more socially conservative than typical California voters.)

Have you watched the documentary - 8: The Mormon Proposition? Very good.

I haven't, my husband won't let me because he doesn't want to deal with me on the war path for a long period of time. I have however, been involved (e.g. volunteering) in the political movement for same-sex marriage, so I'm reasonably aware of the amount of money certain religious organizations have pumped into the issue on the opposing side.

krystonite

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

nitka653

Agnostic, although I lean more towards a combination of Christianity and Wiccan combined (sounds weird, I know). I also believe in science, and the evolution theory as well.

I don't think it's weird at all. I was raised very strictly christian. My mom still is, but i believe in more. Because of my upbringing, any religious acts always have an element of Christianity in them. I often "pray" but am actually meditating and maybe reciting a self-written spell. I sing christian christmas carols and grin at the irony because almost every song could be pagan based if we thought about it.

I consider myself much like the original poster that I'm kinda a mix. I don't hold anything against other religions except when their beliefs become hateful or controlling. To each there own is my motto!

krystonite

Also if you like to debate about religion (there's 10 pages here, clearly some of you do) there's a group for you!

Debatable Debating! Argue with strangers about whatever you want! Join today!

I love giving plugs.

I want to be in it. What's the group?

Elizabeth_C34

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Ughhhh that's a topic it always frustrates me because of how narrow minded they are and they're the ones running our country. Like Gingrich statement "It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization."

Really?

What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.

While homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece, it was very socially taboo in Rome especially male-male homosexuality. It was considered "weak" for a man to be "entered" (for lack of a better politically correct term to use). If a man was raped or in any way "entered" either voluntarily or not, he was often ostricized from society, stripped of his wealth, and considered an outcast for life along with his children. Lesbianism was more of a sexual kink than a form of legitimate relationship in Rome also.

15in8

Atheist looking forward to (and witnessing) the increasing spread of a rationalist meme and more probability based thinking.

brittanyjeanxo

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

Probably :laugh: NC is gorgeous, but unfortunately, the south, in general, is just not a tolerant place. I know, I grew up in it.

krystonite

I think it's interesting a study recently conducted that showed that more atheists in America understand the bible than do devout christians.

I know more about the bible and the Qu'ran than most of my Christian and Muslim friends do respectively. I enjoy reading religious texts and understanding them in their historical contexts.

<-- WEE bit of a history buff.

Ditto.

I'm currently reading: Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality by John Boswell

That's a good one.

Have you read Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond yet? It's not really a religious history book per se, but touches on a lot of the historical context surrounding the times when certain faiths came about and when and how they propagated.

Yes!!!!!! I absolutely love that book.

You should also check out Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. Great book on the history of science (also includes remarks on science and religion and how most of our understanding came about).

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

lyssamichelle

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Elizabeth_C34

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

YES book club!

Bentley2718

I'm in the opposite situation. I was born and raised in New York - very gay friendly. Move to California by West Hollywood - very gay friendly. Now I reside in North Carolina in a town where people where camouflage out to breakfast. I want to kill myself.

Yeah, I basically grew up in the sticks. If you were black or gay, you were hated for sure. -sigh- It's a lot different here, and I like it.

It doesn't help that I'm an activist, antiracist and have a deep love for sociology. In the sticks, all of that stuff just seems to become emboldened. I have to bite my tongue like 10 times a day. And that's only because the other 10 times I'm spouting off at someone about studies and trends and facts for why they're wrong. I should probably move

I gave up years ago, trying to discuss research with people who don't want to hear about it doesn't do anything but waste time and frustrate you (maybe a bad attitude on my part, but it really is my experience).

brittanyjeanxo

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

I can understand that to a certain degree. It must be really hard.

Elizabeth_C34

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Have you checked out any Unitarian churches? They are very open-minded folks, and very friendly in my experience.

brittanyjeanxo

Please do feel free to continue this thread in a CIVIL way like we all have been. I really am very glad that everyone here has been so thoughtful and great If someone comes in trolling, PLEASE don't reply! Just report them and be on your merry way. I am going to hit the hay, but I am looking forward to seeing more replies tomorrow. Keep 'em coming! :drinker: Good night, all!

krystonite

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

Okay, you finally got me. I haven't read that one. But I will officially add it to my list

krystonite

Please do feel free to continue this thread in a CIVIL way like we all have been. I really am very glad that everyone here has been so thoughtful and great If someone comes in trolling, PLEASE don't reply! Just report them and be on your merry way. I am going to hit the hay, but I am looking forward to seeing more replies tomorrow. Keep 'em coming! :drinker: Good night, all!

Night night.

I'm gonna head to bed as well. Night all.

Elizabeth_C34

I actually just finished reading that about a month ago haha

We should start a book club.

One last suggestion. The Universe in a Single Atom by the Dalai Lama?

Okay, you finally got me. I haven't read that one. But I will officially add it to my list

All the Dalai Lama's books are very well written. It's like sitting down chatting with an old friend. He's a wonderful writer.

I would also suggest The Ethics of the New Millenium. Slightly outdated, but still very good. (by the Dalai Lama also).

Bentley2718

What I'm about to say has absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs at all. This is just a simple point I'm stating based on the "unless there is evidence, scientific or not, that there is/are God(s), Goddess(es) or any type of deity, someone will not believe they exist", it is kind of what people used to say when it was first said the Earth was round, our planet wasn't the center of the Universe and the Sun would spin round our planet, when people didn't know about gravity, etc.

I respect and support anyone who believes in anything just as much as those who don't believe in anything at all. But when it comes about proof, not even science can deny the existence of things just because they can't explain it.

If you want a better example of what God is, God is everything. Not a guy sitting up there in the sky (heaven) watching everything we do. God is everything and all of us. Interpretation has a lot to do when it comes about manipulation of religions. Even when the statement "we are made in the image of God" has been interpreted as "we" humans, but the truth is, "we" is just everything that exist, whether is living and non-living. God is energy, just a conscious energy that keeps everything in balance.

I don't understand what you're getting at here. You believe god is everything, that's great for you, but what's the bigger point?

There's no bigger point, my point is that in a certain way someone saying they don't believe in God because there is no evidence or it hasn't been proved, it makes me think of all the times people didn't and still don't believe in events or facts just because science doesn't have the tools to "prove" the origins and its existence. In that sense I like more Quantum physics.

Science doesn't prove anything, proof is not the purpose or project of science. What science can do is demonstrate that certain testable hypotheses are likely to be false. I think that the agnostic point about the untestability of the existence of god is well-made. We can't test the existence of god, so god is a matter of faith. It follows that ANY choice of belief is equally valid and should be respected (I would add so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to make their own choices about belief, but that is just me).

MarCarCas

I can respect that.

I have a problem when we have politicians - with their own limitations and agendas - attempting to interpret the bible to fit the narrative of their perspective in order to legislate discriminatory things - such as gay marriage. That's my big beef on religion.

Ughhhh that's a topic it always frustrates me because of how narrow minded they are and they're the ones running our country. Like Gingrich statement "It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, and it's a perfect example of what I mean by the rise of paganism. The effort to create alternatives to marriage between a man and a woman are perfectly natural pagan behaviors, but they are a fundamental violation of our civilization."

Really?

What's funny to me about that is that in the Old Pagan cultures, marriage was only between a man and a woman. :laugh: Homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece and Rome, but as far as I know only a man and woman could actually marry.

While homosexuality was openly practiced in Greece, it was very socially taboo in Rome especially male-male homosexuality. It was considered "weak" for a man to be "entered" (for lack of a better politically correct term to use). If a man was raped or in any way "entered" either voluntarily or not, he was often ostricized from society, stripped of his wealth, and considered an outcast for life along with his children. Lesbianism was more of a sexual kink than a form of legitimate relationship in Rome also.

That's true, it was not as accepted as in Greece. I was just thinking of Hadrian and Antinous, but I forgot about the stern 'virtuous' Roman culture of masculinity.

lyssamichelle

I believe in God, but I really don't like other Christians..
I'm just a lost little girl, wondering around.. lol
It's hard to connect to a group of people when they all tell you what is wrong & what is right.. while act like they know everything..
Hypocritical people, if you will. ( Not all of them, just every single one I've had the pleasure of meeting or being related too)
I have a very religious family, so it's not like I can share my opinion about anything.

Have you checked out any Unitarian churches? They are very open-minded folks, and very friendly in my experience.

I haven't, the only church I've gone to is a church of christ. The preacher acts like I live close, every time he sees me he tells me how I need to come more often. I live a good 45 mins away. Those people turned me off from the whole church going experience.
I'll have to look in to that though, thanks.

BrendaLee

Agnostic. I believe in nothing other than the possibility of everything.

Elizabeth_C34

That's true, it was not as accepted as in Greece. I was just thinking of Hadrian and Antinous, but I forgot about the stern 'virtuous' Roman culture of masculinity.

The Romans essentially adopted the Grecian gods and gave them new names. Kinda like slapping a new label on an old item. The Romans were not terribly creative in their religion though superbly superstitious nonetheless. Many of the homosexual traditions among the Gods were carried along originally but later abandoned after Caesar Augustus's reign.

Interesting stuff though. I love Roman history (probably fairly obvious now!)

If you are interested, there's a podcast called History of Rome by Mike Duncan available free on iTunes. It's fantastic and a nearly comprehensive and complete history of the Roman empire.

Elizabeth_C34

Have you checked out any Unitarian churches? They are very open-minded folks, and very friendly in my experience.

I haven't, the only church I've gone to is a church of christ. The preacher acts like I live close, every time he sees me he tells me how I need to come more often. I live a good 45 mins away. Those people turned me off from the whole church going experience.
I'll have to look in to that though, thanks.

I might also suggest Episcopalian and ELCA Lutheran churches if you're looking for something a little more orthodox than the Unitarians. Most ELCA Lutheran churches are fairly liberal politically and tend to be more open-minded though there is a confirmation process to become a full member.

Good luck to you!

savage22hp

If I chose to believe that jumping off a bridge will not harm me , please care enough about me as a fellow man to stop me , even if I have the right to jump .

Bentley2718

If I chose to believe that jumping off a bridge will not harm me , please care enough about me as a fellow man to stop me , even if I have the right to jump .

I should have been more clear, all choices with regard to the belief in the existence of god/etc.. Better?

tyroneadams

I hope you aren'tmad I am chiming in but I am a strong believer in the God of the bible. I (and most of the mature believers I know) really love all people and are not just talking the talk. I believe many people have never heard a person explain the gospel to them in a reasonable way, without judging them. I share my faith with atheists and all other world views and many after hearing God's word explained, want to receive Jesus into their heart and life. Again I hope my two cents adds and doesn't take away from the thoughts that have been shared.

YassSpartan

Science doesn't prove anything, proof is not the purpose or project of science. What science can do is demonstrate that certain testable hypotheses are likely to be false. I think that the agnostic point about the untestability of the existence of god is well-made. We can't test the existence of god, so god is a matter of faith. It follows that ANY choice of belief is equally valid and should be respected (I would add so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others to make their own choices about belief, but that is just me).

I can't argue that (about science) but like I said, science still hasn't demonstrated whether God is real or not and a lot of nonbelievers based their point of view based on that. Just as we the believers could be wrong based from a scientific point of view, the non-believers can also be wrong. So I agree with you, it is a matter of faith, being raised on a religion, life experiences, etc that makes a person believe in God, whatever God can be for that person.

Again, this is just my opinion, and like I said, I respect everybody in that sense. I used to not believe in anything, and I thought religion was a joke, but I found myself asking questions, and years after, here I am, being a Wiccan and loving everyone the same :bigsmile:

resolu

I think this is the best post I've read in... maybe forever! I'm a northern born and raised episcopalian and now I live in the south and have religion shoved down my throat at every turn and not even sure I can spell episcopalian anymore. So no offense if I misspelled it. As I grew up I classified myself as agnostic, but now I'm atheist. I've dabbled in Wiccan and think, if I were to find a reason to believe, that would be the way I'd go, but I need to learn a lot more about it first. But mostly, believe what you want to believe, just remember that your neighbor may not believe the same, but that doesn't make him/her evil.

savage22hp

If I chose to believe that jumping off a bridge will not harm me , please care enough about me as a fellow man to stop me , even if I have the right to jump .

I should have been more clear, all choices with regard to the belief in the existence of god/etc.. Better?

I didn't misunderstand . I want you to disregard my beliefs out of love in order to save me , even if others ridicule you for forcing your beliefs on me . Gravity is real and I will be dead even if it is my choice .

KaosLynnRose

i'm a wiccan