Government recognizing Gay and Lesbian
Replies
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To all of you people quoting the Bible to celebrate your anti-homosexual viewpoints, read the rest of the book. The parts that tell us to love one another. To be compassionate. To not judge.
Maybe people do have "a choice." But only God has "the right to judge."
I'm a Christian. A TRUE CHRISTIAN. And yet I do not feel like the Bible taught me that homosexuals are to be condemned.
Stop only reading the parts that make you feel better about who you are, and pick up the parts that will teach you how to be a better a better Christian. And a better example of how we're supposed to be.
Stop spreading hate. You won't spread the Word until you do.
Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Matthew 5:43-45 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
I love this! I am Christian. I go to church. I am the only gay person at my church. They love me and accept me for who I am, not who I love.
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Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And some eat their young. I love it when people bring animals into this discussion. Since when did animals develop the level of reason that humans have. And when did they establish themselves as an equal species?
Equal species? Do you think we are more important than bees or fish?
That is a ridiculous question, I know where you are tying to with it, and it's absurd. Of course those two are important to the food chain, but that is where their value ends. If you think that we are on same level as other species, then I don't really see how I can have a rational discussion with you about my statement.
Do animals have a sense of right and wrong?
Do they protect other animals and keep them from going extinct?
Do they bring us into their homes and raise us(tarzan excluded)?
Well those apes did take in...
"(tarzan excluded)"
damn...
It doesn't matter if they do any of those. We are the same product. If we want to know if homosexuality is biological, then we have to look at the process leading to our existence, which incorporates the natural world we live in. That includes animal behavior.
We are not the same though, even if evolution were to be proved. We have the ability to think and control our impulses. Animals do not have this ability. We developed civilizations and laws that govern us, we have developed societies and technologies. Until animals are able to write down laws to govern themselves, they will be and are nothing more than food.
We have instincts, but we decide if we are to act on them or not.0 -
So I read something about this the other day. It was a funny quote. It went something like this, "It's very dear to me, the issue of gay marriage... or, as I like to call it: Marriage. You know, because I had lunch this afternoon, not gay lunch. I parked my car; I didn't gay park it." Liz Feldman
I am a Christian, born and raised. My parents taught me, at a young age, that we are not all the same, but that we are born equal. Or supposed to be. My parents taught me that we all should have the same rights, the right to a good education, the right to be happy, and among others, the right to be with the person you love. They taught me that I have to fight for these rights. They taught me not to judge and to tolerate even if I do not exactly agree with other's.
For example, I am Pro-Life, but I will NEVER tell a woman that she has no right to terminate her pregnancy. Off-topic, I know, but it's an example of tolerance, take it as it is. I would Never have an abortion, but will not judge those who feel it's the best decision for her.
Why shouldn't homosexual couples enjoy of the same rights as heterosexual couples?
Because it's in the Bible? Sorry, but there is such a thing as SEPARATION OF STATE AND CHURCH.
Why can't my one of my best friends take on her partner's last name?
I know when I get married I'll be able to, so why can't she. She is HUMAN too. She was born with the same rights as me, why should she be denied these rights because of her sexual orientation.
I read that homosexuality was found in hundreds of species. Don't remember the source, I apologize. But if it is, then is it not somehow natural?
Those who wan't to quote the Bible and be all righteous and say that if you want to go to Heaven, you should be "on the straight and narrow", what do you think about Divorce? The Bible, on Mark I believe, does say that you'd be committing adultery if you were to divorce and marry again. Oh my, that Kim Kardashian, that Britney Spears, that Newt Gingrich and millions other are heading straight to hell. (Sarcastic Comment. Don't get too excited) What about those who have more than one Wife and claim to do it because it's in the Bible? Isn't polygamy a sin or sinful behavior? Or how about sex before marriage? Isn't that fornication?
I for one will continue to believe in God and will continue to fight for our rights. I 100% support Marriage, whether it is man & woman, man & man, woman & woman. And if my parents taught me wrong for standing up and defending the rights of my brothers and sisters, homosexual or heterosexual, then I'd rather be wrong for the rest of my life than be "Right" and deny others the rights I have.
I love this0 -
There was one state/governor that I think over-stepped its bounds in legalizing gay marriage by actually forcing churches to conduct gay marriage ceremonies (as long as it offered straight marriage ceremonies). I can't remember where I read this recently, but that was definitely crossing the line.
I have never heard of this and suspect you are either remembering incorrectly or were fed some bad information. Was it in a frantic e-mail from your Aunt Ida?
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I can be fired in 29 states of being gay. How do I have the same rights as straight people?
Show me those laws and for what organizations? Are they religious?
There is fed law that protects you from being fired on your sexual orientation.
i don't buy that one bit.
There IS no federal law againt discrimination due to sexual orientation.
here are some links:
http://legavue.com/category-table/588-can-you-be-fired-for-being-gay.html
http://www.glaad.org/standupforellen0 -
I love all these "tolerant" individuals who think if you're religious and are opposed to gay marriage on those grounds, you're "ignorant" or "trailer trash."
As for Jesus not thinking homosexuality is bad, read Matthew 19:4-5. He clearly explains to the Pharisees that marriage is between a male and a female.0 -
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And some eat their young. I love it when people bring animals into this discussion. Since when did animals develop the level of reason that humans have. And when did they establish themselves as an equal species?
Equal species? Do you think we are more important than bees or fish?
That is a ridiculous question, I know where you are tying to with it, and it's absurd. Of course those two are important to the food chain, but that is where their value ends. If you think that we are on same level as other species, then I don't really see how I can have a rational discussion with you about my statement.
Do animals have a sense of right and wrong?
Do they protect other animals and keep them from going extinct?
Do they bring us into their homes and raise us(tarzan excluded)?
Well those apes did take in...
"(tarzan excluded)"
damn...
It doesn't matter if they do any of those. We are the same product. If we want to know if homosexuality is biological, then we have to look at the process leading to our existence, which incorporates the natural world we live in. That includes animal behavior.
We are not the same though, even if evolution were to be proved. We have the ability to think and control our impulses. Animals do not have this ability. We developed civilizations and laws that govern us, we have developed societies and technologies. Until animals are able to write down laws to govern themselves, they will be and are nothing more than food.
We have instincts, but we decide if we are to act on them or not.
I still disagree. I think the only reason we behave the way we do is because it is greater benefit to use to do so. Which is also the driving factor for many animals. And believe it or not, we have more evidence to support evolution theory than gravity theory.
However, if you insist that we are not animals, simply don't put any weight into it. The single study I cited still remains, and there were more where that came from.0 -
There was one state/governor that I think over-stepped its bounds in legalizing gay marriage by actually forcing churches to conduct gay marriage ceremonies (as long as it offered straight marriage ceremonies). I can't remember where I read this recently, but that was definitely crossing the line.
I have never heard of this and suspect you are either remembering incorrectly or were fed some bad information. Was it in a frantic e-mail from your Aunt Ida?
Gov. Christine Gregoire of Washington State signed a gay marriage bill that stated, "accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage” to the public must offer all those goods for use to homosexual couples seeking marriage or else face a penalty for discrimination."
From what I understand that language was dropped from the bill because it was forcing churches to perform gay marriages.0 -
I have mixed feelings on the subject, but most of them have already been discussed here.
What I put forth to all of you is "Where do you draw the line?"
Is Polygamy OK? Can I have multiple civil partners?
Is a union between two brothers OK? Incest was historically banned due to the resulting birth defects.
Does a union even have to have a sexual relationship? Can it be simply two or more people who want the social, legal, and economic benefits of a union?
Is a union with a minor OK? Is it OK if it is non-sexual?
Not trying to stir the debate, just want to give everyone more to consider. Where does society draw the line?
GREAT POINT!!! Once gays/lesbians are allowed to marry, that still wont be good enough or equal. Next up, men will be fighting to have multiple wives of ANY age.... *sighs*0 -
paige marie...........times change. It was just in the 1920s that women were "allowed" to vote for the first time in their lives. Before that year, nope, they were treated as 2nd class citizens. Same with Blacks in the voting process, and there was a time Blacks and Whites weren't allowed to marry, and one state in the south still has it on its books, but not enforced
seems that you wouldnt be satisfied as a woman not to have the privelege to vote......that would make you feel 2nd class as a person. So maybe you could understand their situation as well.........Best wishes, Lloyd
I'm not really bothered about voting.
Since you ARE bothered by LGBT people and their wishes perhaps you should abide by all of the things mentioned in Leviticus. Start by taking that septum piercing out of your nose.0 -
I love all these "tolerant" individuals who think if you're religious and are opposed to gay marriage on those grounds, you're "ignorant" or "trailer trash."
As for Jesus not thinking homosexuality is bad, read Matthew 19:4-5. He clearly explains to the Pharisees that marriage is between a male and a female.
"But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Jesus) Mat 5:22
"You blind fools!" (Jesus) Mat 23:17
We already covered where religion belongs in this matter.
It doesn't.0 -
12 reasons why Same Sex Marriage should not be allowed:
1.Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
2.Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can’t legally get married because the world needs more children.
3.Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
4.Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5.Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are property, blacks can’t marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6.Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7.Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.
8.Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9.Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10.Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11.Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to things like cars or longer life-spans.
12.Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a “separate but equal” institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.0 -
12 reasons why Same Sex Marriage should not be allowed:
1.Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
2.Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can’t legally get married because the world needs more children.
3.Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
4.Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5.Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are property, blacks can’t marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6.Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7.Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.
8.Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9.Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10.Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11.Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to things like cars or longer life-spans.
12.Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a “separate but equal” institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
YES! Thank you for posting this! I was just looking for it, but I think I deleted the email...0 -
I can be fired in 29 states of being gay. How do I have the same rights as straight people?
Show me those laws and for what organizations? Are they religious?
There is fed law that protects you from being fired on your sexual orientation.
i don't buy that one bit.
You have those protections as a federal employee. Not otherwise the state needs to provide them.
http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm
Even if a judge were to hold it up, people can be fired for all sorts of things. People can be let go if they are sick too much, or if they cannot preform their job duties anymore. Should they get special protection as well. They didn't choose to get sick or lose their abilities. Many businesses have policies against straights dating coworkers, and will fire people if they go against policy. Should that be illegal?
Why should one group of people be protected based on the kind of sex they have? Maybe I should hope for the feds to hand down a law giving special protection for this group of people. If I ever get fired. I could claim it's because I was gay and go to the bank.0 -
I'm not touching this debate with a ten foot pole...
That being said, if anyone on my friends list is reading this, and you're a homophobic d-bag, remove me from your friends please.
Thanks
Yep, remove me too.
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12 reasons why Same Sex Marriage should not be allowed:
1.Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control.
2.Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can’t legally get married because the world needs more children.
3.Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
4.Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5.Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are property, blacks can’t marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6.Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7.Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.
8.Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9.Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10.Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11.Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven’t adapted to things like cars or longer life-spans.
12.Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a “separate but equal” institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
Lol. I saw a video of this guy saying all that.0 -
Leaving now. This discussion is going nowhere.
I'm just stating again how glad I am to live in a state where both straight couples and gay couples can marry. I'm proud to be in the only state in the US that has universal health care. We still have our major problems here but we've paved the way for other states to put similar laws in place.
I will always admire states that treat gays and straight couples as equal. A state that does not bat an eye when a gay married couple has to deal with the laws around hospital care, adopting a child, buying a home, paying taxes, etc.
Our Government as a whole has a lot of room to grow and right now I know a lot of Americans that are losing their pride in their country.
The fact that people in this forum judge someone based on who they sleep next to at night (or who they don't) is really just terrible, shallow, and just plain mean.
As a society we judge people that never got married, never had kids, or married and got divorced. We judge people based on who they choose to marry.
I just can sleep better at night knowing I live somewhere that values ALL RESIDENTS as one and the same, and equal.0 -
paige marie...........times change. It was just in the 1920s that women were "allowed" to vote for the first time in their lives. Before that year, nope, they were treated as 2nd class citizens. Same with Blacks in the voting process, and there was a time Blacks and Whites weren't allowed to marry, and one state in the south still has it on its books, but not enforced
seems that you wouldnt be satisfied as a woman not to have the privelege to vote......that would make you feel 2nd class as a person. So maybe you could understand their situation as well.........Best wishes, Lloyd
I'm not really bothered about voting.
Since you ARE bothered by LGBT people and their wishes perhaps you should abide by all of the things mentioned in Leviticus. Start by taking that septum piercing out of your nose.
I didn't make cuts in my skin for the dead.
Also, their lives, their paths, they can choose to do what they wish I wont hate them for it, I follow "Love thine neighbour as thine self" I rebuke them, I don't judge, I don't hate, that's not my place.0 -
I have mixed feelings on the subject, but most of them have already been discussed here.
What I put forth to all of you is "Where do you draw the line?"
Is Polygamy OK? Can I have multiple civil partners?
Is a union between two brothers OK? Incest was historically banned due to the resulting birth defects.
Does a union even have to have a sexual relationship? Can it be simply two or more people who want the social, legal, and economic benefits of a union?
Is a union with a minor OK? Is it OK if it is non-sexual?
Not trying to stir the debate, just want to give everyone more to consider. Where does society draw the line?
GREAT POINT!!! Once gays/lesbians are allowed to marry, that still wont be good enough or equal. Next up, men will be fighting to have multiple wives of ANY age.... *sighs*
Children can't consent. If they're of legal age and they are, in fact consenting, I don't see the issue with polygamy.0 -
I can be fired in 29 states of being gay. How do I have the same rights as straight people?
Show me those laws and for what organizations? Are they religious?
There is fed law that protects you from being fired on your sexual orientation.
i don't buy that one bit.
You have those protections as a federal employee. Not otherwise the state needs to provide them.
http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm
And even then, we're not fully protected. At the risk of too much information, I am a federal government employee with an EEO case against the division I used to work with (I'm still with the same agency, just a different section...). I alleged harassment , discrimination due to disability (I was temporarily disabled last year) as well as discrimination due to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation cases are NOT protected under the same laws--it's in a different classification (I can't for the life of remember what is is--chapter 7??)
For example--harassment due to disability, race, religion, gender, parental status, etc is on one form...and sexual orientation is on another form by itself. Because they are protected differently, I had to fill out all the paperwork twice and undergo two interviews instead of one (whereas if I was alleging discrimination based on say, disability and race, it would have just been once).
You are not entitled to a face-to-face meeting to state your case; rather, a judge whom you've never even met or spoken to reviews the material and makes the decision regarding the sexual orientation case. You are NOT allowed to appeal the decision. I received a letter in the mail the other day stating they did not rule in my favor...and, as I said, I can not appeal it.
The other end of my case--the disability end--is still going on. For that, I will meet face to face with a judge, state my case, etc, and then a decision will be made. If it is not in my favor, I can appeal it. The same procedure applies to discrimination due to age, color, religion, etc...everything except sexual orientatition.0 -
What I think many Christians are missing in this gay marriage issue is love. If you love someone, you don't call them an abomination. If you love someone, you build them up, without condoning nor condemning their behavior. The Bible does tell us to speak the truth, but to do so IN LOVE.
I bet no one ever witnessed to you (and got you to believe that Jesus loves you unconditionally) by telling you that you were going to hell because you lied about your weight on your drivers license... They probably told you all the verses about how much God loves you (John 3:16, John 10:10 are what come to mind) So why is it so different when witnessing to someone who is homosexual? Does God want good things from them. Yes! Did God send Jesus to die for them on the cross? Yes! So why do we tell them that they are abominations and that they are going straight to hell as a starting point? Aren't we all going straight to hell without the love of Jesus and His sacrifice and grace?
Does this mean you have to check yes on the ballot for gay marriage? No. Does it mean you need to get over yourself and realize that Jesus isn't just for you? Yes. Stop rationalizing your "little sins" and magnifying other people's "HUGE SINS".
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:3-50 -
I can be fired in 29 states of being gay. How do I have the same rights as straight people?
Show me those laws and for what organizations? Are they religious?
There is fed law that protects you from being fired on your sexual orientation.
i don't buy that one bit.
You have those protections as a federal employee. Not otherwise the state needs to provide them.
http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/otherprotections.cfm
Even if a judge were to hold it up, people can be fired for all sorts of things. People can be let go if they are sick too much, or if they cannot preform their job duties anymore. Should they get special protection as well. They didn't choose to get sick or lose their abilities. Many businesses have policies against straights dating coworkers, and will fire people if they go against policy. Should that be illegal?
Why should one group of people be protected based on the kind of sex they have? Maybe I should hope for the feds to hand down a law giving special protection for this group of people. If I ever get fired. I could claim it's because I was gay and go to the bank.
They are meant to protect against discrimination against aspects you can not control, like race, gender, religion, etc.
Those goes back to the argument whether homosexuality if a choice or not. I was arguing for "Not a choice", your seemed to be arguing "Is a choice". We can't get to this debate till we finish that one.0 -
Gov. Christine Gregoire of Washington State signed a gay marriage bill that stated, "accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage” to the public must offer all those goods for use to homosexual couples seeking marriage or else face a penalty for discrimination."
From what I understand that language was dropped from the bill because it was forcing churches to perform gay marriages.
That language was dropped from the Washington State bill before it reached Gov. Gregoire's desk, so it never forced churches to perform gay marriages. Anti-equality churches feared that it would and lobbied to have the language dropped, which is just fine from my perspective. Forcing churches to marry a couple it doesn't want to would be a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.The bill text originally stated that religious organizations that provide “accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage” to the public must offer all those goods for use to homosexual couples seeking marriage or else face a penalty for discrimination. The version of the bill that passed dropped the qualification, allowing religious groups to retain marriage facilities for heterosexual unions. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/washington-governor-signs-gay-marriage-bill-without-religious-protections0 -
I love all these "tolerant" individuals who think if you're religious and are opposed to gay marriage on those grounds, you're "ignorant" or "trailer trash."
As for Jesus not thinking homosexuality is bad, read Matthew 19:4-5. He clearly explains to the Pharisees that marriage is between a male and a female.
I'm all about everyone being entitled to their own opinions, but it's when those opinions interfere with the rights of others that I can't stand. I mean, really, HOW will gay marriage affect you in any way, shape or form? Really...0 -
I have mixed feelings on the subject, but most of them have already been discussed here.
What I put forth to all of you is "Where do you draw the line?"
Is Polygamy OK? Can I have multiple civil partners?
Is a union between two brothers OK? Incest was historically banned due to the resulting birth defects.
Does a union even have to have a sexual relationship? Can it be simply two or more people who want the social, legal, and economic benefits of a union?
Is a union with a minor OK? Is it OK if it is non-sexual?
Not trying to stir the debate, just want to give everyone more to consider. Where does society draw the line?
GREAT POINT!!! Once gays/lesbians are allowed to marry, that still wont be good enough or equal. Next up, men will be fighting to have multiple wives of ANY age.... *sighs*
Because "two brothers" could have children? As it turns out, the increase in "birth defects" even when siblings reproduce is barely above that of two strangers. Why would multiple partners in a marriage be objectionable to you? YOU won't be required to marry more than one person any more than you would a person of the same gender. As to marrying a minor--marriage is a legal contract, and minors can't sign contracts, so that's covered.
Where I draw the line is easy. Anything an adult does that doesn't harm the person or property of a non-consenting other should not be the purview of government.0 -
Because "two brothers" could have children? As it turns out, the increase in "birth defects" even when siblings reproduce is barely above that of two strangers. Why would multiple partners in a marriage be objectionable to you? YOU won't be required to marry more than one person any more than you would a person of the same gender. As to marrying a minor--marriage is a legal contract, and minors can't sign contracts, so that's covered.
Where I draw the line is easy. Anything an adult does that doesn't harm the person or property of a non-consenting other should not be the purview of government.
I like you :drinker:0 -
Leaving now. This discussion is going nowhere.
I'm just stating again how glad I am to live in a state where both straight couples and gay couples can marry. I'm proud to be in the only state in the US that has universal health care. We still have our major problems here but we've paved the way for other states to put similar laws in place.
I will always admire states that treat gays and straight couples as equal. A state that does not bat an eye when a gay married couple has to deal with the laws around hospital care, adopting a child, buying a home, paying taxes, etc.
Our Government as a whole has a lot of room to grow and right now I know a lot of Americans that are losing their pride in their country.
The fact that people in this forum judge someone based on who they sleep next to at night (or who they don't) is really just terrible, shallow, and just plain mean.
As a society we judge people that never got married, never had kids, or married and got divorced. We judge people based on who they choose to marry.
I just can sleep better at night knowing I live somewhere that values ALL RESIDENTS as one and the same, and equal.
I want to Move to where you live.
Love This!0 -
Ok, I'm out for a while.
Live Long and Prosper!0 -
There was one state/governor that I think over-stepped its bounds in legalizing gay marriage by actually forcing churches to conduct gay marriage ceremonies (as long as it offered straight marriage ceremonies). I can't remember where I read this recently, but that was definitely crossing the line.
I have never heard of this and suspect you are either remembering incorrectly or were fed some bad information. Was it in a frantic e-mail from your Aunt Ida?
Gov. Christine Gregoire of Washington State signed a gay marriage bill that stated, "accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage” to the public must offer all those goods for use to homosexual couples seeking marriage or else face a penalty for discrimination."
From what I understand that language was dropped from the bill because it was forcing churches to perform gay marriages.
That language was dropped from the Washington State bill before it reached Gov. Gregoire's desk, so it never forced churches to perform gay marriages. Anti-equality churches feared that it would and lobbied to have the language dropped, which is just fine from my perspective. Forcing churches to marry a couple it doesn't want to would be a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.The bill text originally stated that religious organizations that provide “accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage” to the public must offer all those goods for use to homosexual couples seeking marriage or else face a penalty for discrimination. The version of the bill that passed dropped the qualification, allowing religious groups to retain marriage facilities for heterosexual unions. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/washington-governor-signs-gay-marriage-bill-without-religious-protections
That is exactly what I said...that language was dropped from the bill.
So, I guess that person did not receive a frantic email from their Aunt Ida! 0 -
Aunt Ida's e-mail often have stuff that just ain't so!
From the text of Washington State's marriage-equality bill:(4) No regularly licensed or ordained minister or any priest, imam,
rabbi, or similar official of any religious organization is required to
solemnize or recognize any marriage. A regularly licensed or ordained
minister or priest, imam, rabbi, or similar official of any religious
organization shall be immune from any civil claim or cause of action
based on a refusal to solemnize or recognize any marriage under this
section. No state agency or local government may base a decision to
penalize, withhold benefits from, or refuse to contract with any
religious organization on the refusal of a person associated with such
religious organization to solemnize or recognize a marriage under this
section.
(5) No religious organization is required to provide
accommodations, facilities, advantages, privileges, services, or goods
related to the solemnization or celebration of a marriage.
(6) A religious organization shall be immune from any civil claim
or cause of action, including a claim pursuant to chapter 49.60 RCW,
based on its refusal to provide accommodations, facilities, advantages,
privileges, services, or goods related to the solemnization or
celebration of a marriage.
Full text here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/Senate Passed Legislature/6239-S.PL.pdf0
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