Attitudes of people with different levels of fitness and wei

BrienJD

[/quote]

+1
I also love the fat gene arguement and the my whole family are large one.

Im 194lbs because I have over eaten I know I have and im not in denial about that I know I need to lose weight and I am losing slowly as I am not dong a stupid starvation diet id rather have as little as 100cal deficit and eat very nutritious meals low in fat and keep me full
[/quote]

I give credence to the fat gene as well, not as an excuse but just as fact of hereditary genetics My whole family except with few exceptions are large...iof you have it in you tend to LEAN towards being overweight, much easier than other folks, but ultimately it's a choice YOU make that determines of you will be fat/large/overweight/obese.big boned or not. I got up to nearly 250 and that's kinda heavy for my height and frame (5'3), but I am beginning to lose it.

A_New_Horizon

I would be honest....months ago your post would have been offensive BUT now that I have lost 60 lbs - I can honestly say that my lifestyle and not caring about myself caused me to become obese. I just woke up one day after seeing the scale hit 200 lbs (that was in Sept 2010). I do believe that alot of people make excuses, but there are some medical reasons that can cause weight gain (I am struggling with one myself - I had lost 62 lbs but put back on 8 lbs due to new med). I also believe that alot of people make excuses for themselves (being a single mother who works full-time I know how hard it is to make time to workout which is why the DVD player was invented). My point is I think you have to want it back enoughh to succeed, but I am living proof that it is very doable.

_VoV

I'm American and fat, while not proudly so. I prefer using simple descriptive terms to politically correct ones. So, when the subject comes up, I will say I'm fat in a neutral way.

Some people hate to hear me say that, thinking I am showing poor self-respect or engaging in 'negative self-talk.' I have been corrected by slim or fat, alike. I have learned to talk around the word, as a consequence.

EmilyOfTheSun

I am at work and have not had time to read the full post. (I am American). I agree 100% with the original poster. I have so many....bigger friends that constantly make excuses for themselves. It's come to the point that I've just stopped asking people to work out with me because there always seems to be an excuse and I don't need that negativity. I work out on my own and am making good progress. I just want to slap people when I hear a lame *kitten* excuse.

ARMom8251

There are many people out there who do have legitimate medical issues that cause them problems, that just means they have to work at it a little harder than the rest of us(not to say we don't bust our *kitten* to get where we are). I do believe far to many use that as a lean to! I also know from personal experience when you first start this journey, and you come from a family that doen't nor has ever followed any fitness or nutrition plan in their lives it hard and a little overwhelming out there. On top of all of that having people who are "fit or healthy" beat you up over it...sets back progress. Instead you can be tactful in your informing of their misinformation. I don't like the word fat, who does, but reality is I was....but someone else telling me that would have for sure brought out my mean, southern country side...lol. To be sucessful in your journey you do need to know the truth, sometimes that hurts, and so does working your *kitten* off, but it is all worth it. You can be an encouragment and a motivator all while spilling out the truth to them...just don't be an *kitten* about it. I think it is different for the fit and healthy because they have been there, and they know you don't get where you are by laying around on the couch eating pizza and ice cream(the whole thing), or making excuses. There are no excuses when it comes to your health, you will have to work at it and it will require a lifetime commitment....you didn't get there overnight and you won't fix yourself overnight.

BaconMD

"I'm not fat, I'm fluffy!"

I blame my mom. She made me this way! I was 11lbs1oz outta the snatch, so like, it's obviously her fault, right?

And I mean, a doctor actually told me it wasn't my fault! It was my genes, he said. He also told me I needed to join a gym or I'd never lose the 50lbs he said I needed to drop.

He was mistaken on all accounts.

Judanjos

Everyone loses weight differently. You just have to keep modifying a way of eating until you start to shed. I don't call it fat so much anymore. I say an over abundance of adipose tissue. it really depends how you say it and the context that you say it in. Insulting the overweight only agitates and makes whatever psychological issues present worse. Everyone has to hit their rock bottom on their own.

Everyone is overweight for one reason or another. These people have to find their own motivation and get on the horse. Many things contribute to weight gain and some are medical. Mine were psychological and I coped in unhealthy ways. These were habits forged young and cultivated through life.

What I really can say here is don't judge. It's not a fun road to walk, but it has made me a stronger person.

I am 5"1
294LBS and shrinking

jenbk2

bump

jaymek92

I'm fat; I know this, I accept this, and when people try to tell me I'm not I'm quick to correct them.

I don't understand the issue with the word, honestly - if the shoe fits, you know?

I also accept that it's through my own laziness and love of food that I'm the way I am now, and that I'm responsible for fixing what I've done so far. Honestly, I tend to offend people when I tell them that things like LapBands and gastric bypass are cheating, but they are - you did the work to do the damage to your body, you need to get up and do the work to repair it.

i agree with just about everything you said, except for the idea that lapbands and gastric bypass are cheating.
how many people who get either of those surgeries gain all the weight back because they don't know how to eat healthily? a lot. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18392907)
when my aunt had gastric bypass, she lost a lot of weight (around 150 pounds) . the difference is, though, that she took the things the doctors said to heart.
she eats smaller portions (she used to have a card that entitled her to kids' meals at restaurants) and eats healthy foods. a lot of fruits and veggies, lean meats, lots of homemade stuff. honestly, i can't even remember her having fast food since before her wedding 4 years ago.
she had her surgery around 10 years ago, and it was not a "cheat". she had to actually work hard to eat better and exercise. the surgery just forced her (at first) to eat smaller portions. all the rest was up to her.

Marla64

I'm fat; I know this, I accept this, and when people try to tell me I'm not I'm quick to correct them.

I don't understand the issue with the word, honestly - if the shoe fits, you know?

I also accept that it's through my own laziness and love of food that I'm the way I am now, and that I'm responsible for fixing what I've done so far. Honestly, I tend to offend people when I tell them that things like LapBands and gastric bypass are cheating, but they are - you did the work to do the damage to your body, you need to get up and do the work to repair it.

i agree with just about everything you said, except for the idea that lapbands and gastric bypass are cheating.
how many people who get either of those surgeries gain all the weight back because they don't know how to eat healthily? a lot. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18392907)
when my aunt had gastric bypass, she lost a lot of weight (around 150 pounds) . the difference is, though, that she took the things the doctors said to heart.
she eats smaller portions (she used to have a card that entitled her to kids' meals at restaurants) and eats healthy foods. a lot of fruits and veggies, lean meats, lots of homemade stuff. honestly, i can't even remember her having fast food since before her wedding 4 years ago.
she had her surgery around 10 years ago, and it was not a "cheat". she had to actually work hard to eat better and exercise. the surgery just forced her (at first) to eat smaller portions. all the rest was up to her.

Jayme-- kudos to your aunt. She is really a success story. The only two women I know personally who have had gastric bypass have gained almost all their weight back. It breaks my heart. I'm friendly with one of the ladies, and I'm dying to turn her onto MFP-- but not sure how to broach the subject-- we're not THAT close....

ProjectLGD

To the OP…
I agree there is a difference between (making generalizations here) (1) the attitudes an optimum weight (normal BMI/fit person) and (2) a person still working on reducing adipose tissue and exercising to a better healthy level and (3) the person who is not even addressing their health issues and (4) everyone in between.

In the first category, I think there is also a difference between (1a) someone who is optimally fit and (1b) someone who has been obese and is now optimum weight and fit.

In the second category I think there is a difference between (2a) vanity and <20 lbs. and (2b) losing > 100 lbs.

Even category 3 has some variance between total oblivion (i.e., denial) and fully aware but just not ready to make the changes. (This is where I believe most obese people fall). What you call denial, I call defense mechanisms from attacks by the members of the other categories. Fat-on-fat criticism/attack is very uncommon.
I think there is an ever changing attitude in this area no matter where you start and where you end up.

For example,
Cat 1a: I have a no-nonsense ‘eat less, exercise more’ attitude; the ‘it comes to me naturally’ right balance between intake and output; I notice a weight gain and naturally reduce my intake until weight is back where I want it, while easily maintaining an active lifestyle. I don’t know what it is like to have insatiable hunger or live in an urban oasis.
Cat 1b: I vigilantly watch my food and calorie intake and exercise regime. I cannot stray from my plan lest I return to where I was previously. I am still working at getting my intake and output stable and worry-free.
Cat 2: I am working at getting my calorie intake and level of exercise to the point where I will consistently and constantly lose weight. I usually have to adjust my calorie intake down and increase my exercise to achieve this and it is a challenge for me. It may be influenced by:
emotional eating or eating disorders,
life (pregnancy/moving/commuting/divorce/layoffs) interferences – high stressors
hampered by hormones and fluctuations in the levels due to many factors not the least of which is high stress, aging and LOSING weight. Brain chemical balances – there is a complex system of chemicals that send FEED ME signals between your brain and your body (leptin, gherlin, peptide YY, hCG, thyroid, adrenal glands, etc) regarding satiety and hunger AND how efficiently fuel is used or saved.
Hunger - adjust intake down to provide less immediate fuel so fat stores will be used during exercise (enough to use ingested fuel and stored fuel which creates a demand for more fuel – i.e. hunger to be denied) to achieve this. And the aforementioned hormones and chemicals.
amount of weight/length of time it takes to lose – this is where there is a difference between
(2a) short term(<6 months) and (2b) long term (>12 months) weight loss efforts. There can be a sense of being overwhelmed by or a reduction in motivation/commitment when the prospect of being in ‘losing’ mode for over 12 months.
There are sooo many factors that can contribute to this thing we call weight loss and fitness (and the attitudes that are prevalent among all participants --not just the fat and unfit) that even the smartest and most dedicated physicians tackling this problem are still stumped by how it all works together.

Simply put it is calories in and calories out… but is it really simple??? The difficulty lies in developing an individual plan for ME to know which calories (nutrients and micronutrients – sodium, 30 grams fiber, 100 grams calcium, dietary supplements, etc.) how (carbs combined with protein or preload a workout with carbs or post workout protein shake) and when those calories are eaten (6 small meals a day or three medium with some snacks or large breakfast then small lunch and dinner), in what quantity (i.e., 50% carbs/20%fat/30%proteins) and form (raw, processed, vegan) while controlling hunger and food is palatable and satisfying, duration (how long can I stay motivated and committed to this routine, is it sustainable for life, should I change it up, if so when and to what)
And calories out – how to do cardio (gangbusters or gradually increase so you have room to increase when WL stalls?), when (better in am or pm or when you can), which cardio (walk the dog, treadmill, biking), how intense (HIIT or follow the HRM for ‘fat loss’) where (at home or at a gym), duration (is 20-30 min a day as good as the studies show, how much is too much), same questions for strength training adding in the complexities of which muscles groups, amount of weight and when to increase, when (every other day), etc.

Category 3
I disagree with the statement that “Denial and political correctness are the major contributors to increasing trend of obesity”. There are way more social factors involved in this complex issue.
Ethnic issues - There IS a difference between Asian people and ‘strong like bull’ European people. Anthropologically, there are many reasons for this and some can be attributed to the hunter/gatherer era of human development and survival of the fattest when confronted with famine!
Inherited health(nature) and habits (nuture)- There is a genetic link to hormone/brain chemical issues and many other health issues. You are what you were when you were young - parental and significant others influence our food intake selections (three square meals a day with dessert back when it was meat, starch, vegetable, dairy in equal portions), amount (did you belong to the ‘clean plate club’) and varieties (meat not fish) as well as generational – my grandmother always said pigs sweat, men perspire and women glow which implied and encouraged a low activity level for women.
Developed health - There can be injuries and illnesses that control the type, amount and duration of exercise for fitness.
Social – The familial support system or lack thereof. This is so big of an issue it cannot be addressed by experts let alone on a diet forum. Add in the habits and traditions of a social group (usually revolving around food not exercise)? Add in other social-economic factors such as type of job, home locations (Is there an affordable gym? Is it in an urban oasis where either fresh food is not available or very inconvenient to obtain? Can you imagine carrying a couple of grocery bags from the bus stop to home in a less than safe neighborhood?)
Look at the school systems where its hard to get funding for a food budget that limits the amount of processed foods. It’s not just the cost of food but also paying people to prepare fresh food items too. There are big demands on the school budgets for actual school supplies. Where do you want your tax dollars spent? School supplies so kids can learn, afterschool activities to establish active life habits, fresh food to establish healthy eating habits?

Denial and political correctness are most certainly NOT the major contributors to increasing obesity. There are many more factors involved in this complex issue.


Wow! I had a lot to say!

downsizinghoss

First I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread, so if I repeat an idea that's already been expressed........

I have a real problem with the whole "obesity epidemic" nomenclature. When I think of the word epidemic I think of a rapid and uncontrolled spread of a communicable disease, you don't catch fat......

Of course you can catch fat!

We are really slow.

Mission2Me

To the OP…
I agree there is a difference between (making generalizations here) (1) the attitudes an optimum weight (normal BMI/fit person) and (2) a person still working on reducing adipose tissue and exercising to a better healthy level and (3) the person who is not even addressing their health issues and (4) everyone in between.

In the first category, I think there is also a difference between (1a) someone who is optimally fit and (1b) someone who has been obese and is now optimum weight and fit.

In the second category I think there is a difference between (2a) vanity and <20 lbs. and (2b) losing > 100 lbs.

Even category 3 has some variance between total oblivion (i.e., denial) and fully aware but just not ready to make the changes. (This is where I believe most obese people fall). What you call denial, I call defense mechanisms from attacks by the members of the other categories. Fat-on-fat criticism/attack is very uncommon.
I think there is an ever changing attitude in this area no matter where you start and where you end up.

For example,
Cat 1a: I have a no-nonsense ‘eat less, exercise more’ attitude; the ‘it comes to me naturally’ right balance between intake and output; I notice a weight gain and naturally reduce my intake until weight is back where I want it, while easily maintaining an active lifestyle. I don’t know what it is like to have insatiable hunger or live in an urban oasis.
Cat 1b: I vigilantly watch my food and calorie intake and exercise regime. I cannot stray from my plan lest I return to where I was previously. I am still working at getting my intake and output stable and worry-free.
Cat 2: I am working at getting my calorie intake and level of exercise to the point where I will consistently and constantly lose weight. I usually have to adjust my calorie intake down and increase my exercise to achieve this and it is a challenge for me. It may be influenced by:
emotional eating or eating disorders,
life (pregnancy/moving/commuting/divorce/layoffs) interferences – high stressors
hampered by hormones and fluctuations in the levels due to many factors not the least of which is high stress, aging and LOSING weight. Brain chemical balances – there is a complex system of chemicals that send FEED ME signals between your brain and your body (leptin, gherlin, peptide YY, hCG, thyroid, adrenal glands, etc) regarding satiety and hunger AND how efficiently fuel is used or saved.
Hunger - adjust intake down to provide less immediate fuel so fat stores will be used during exercise (enough to use ingested fuel and stored fuel which creates a demand for more fuel – i.e. hunger to be denied) to achieve this. And the aforementioned hormones and chemicals.
amount of weight/length of time it takes to lose – this is where there is a difference between
(2a) short term(<6 months) and (2b) long term (>12 months) weight loss efforts. There can be a sense of being overwhelmed by or a reduction in motivation/commitment when the prospect of being in ‘losing’ mode for over 12 months.
There are sooo many factors that can contribute to this thing we call weight loss and fitness (and the attitudes that are prevalent among all participants --not just the fat and unfit) that even the smartest and most dedicated physicians tackling this problem are still stumped by how it all works together.

Simply put it is calories in and calories out… but is it really simple??? The difficulty lies in developing an individual plan for ME to know which calories (nutrients and micronutrients – sodium, 30 grams fiber, 100 grams calcium, dietary supplements, etc.) how (carbs combined with protein or preload a workout with carbs or post workout protein shake) and when those calories are eaten (6 small meals a day or three medium with some snacks or large breakfast then small lunch and dinner), in what quantity (i.e., 50% carbs/20%fat/30%proteins) and form (raw, processed, vegan) while controlling hunger and food is palatable and satisfying, duration (how long can I stay motivated and committed to this routine, is it sustainable for life, should I change it up, if so when and to what)
And calories out – how to do cardio (gangbusters or gradually increase so you have room to increase when WL stalls?), when (better in am or pm or when you can), which cardio (walk the dog, treadmill, biking), how intense (HIIT or follow the HRM for ‘fat loss’) where (at home or at a gym), duration (is 20-30 min a day as good as the studies show, how much is too much), same questions for strength training adding in the complexities of which muscles groups, amount of weight and when to increase, when (every other day), etc.

Category 3
I disagree with the statement that “Denial and political correctness are the major contributors to increasing trend of obesity”. There are way more social factors involved in this complex issue.
Ethnic issues - There IS a difference between Asian people and ‘strong like bull’ European people. Anthropologically, there are many reasons for this and some can be attributed to the hunter/gatherer era of human development and survival of the fattest when confronted with famine!
Inherited health(nature) and habits (nuture)- There is a genetic link to hormone/brain chemical issues and many other health issues. You are what you were when you were young - parental and significant others influence our food intake selections (three square meals a day with dessert back when it was meat, starch, vegetable, dairy in equal portions), amount (did you belong to the ‘clean plate club’) and varieties (meat not fish) as well as generational – my grandmother always said pigs sweat, men perspire and women glow which implied and encouraged a low activity level for women.
Developed health - There can be injuries and illnesses that control the type, amount and duration of exercise for fitness.
Social – The familial support system or lack thereof. This is so big of an issue it cannot be addressed by experts let alone on a diet forum. Add in the habits and traditions of a social group (usually revolving around food not exercise)? Add in other social-economic factors such as type of job, home locations (Is there an affordable gym? Is it in an urban oasis where either fresh food is not available or very inconvenient to obtain? Can you imagine carrying a couple of grocery bags from the bus stop to home in a less than safe neighborhood?)
Look at the school systems where its hard to get funding for a food budget that limits the amount of processed foods. It’s not just the cost of food but also paying people to prepare fresh food items too. There are big demands on the school budgets for actual school supplies. Where do you want your tax dollars spent? School supplies so kids can learn, afterschool activities to establish active life habits, fresh food to establish healthy eating habits?

Denial and political correctness are most certainly NOT the major contributors to increasing obesity. There are many more factors involved in this complex issue.


Wow! I had a lot to say!

may be the best breakdown thus far!

modernmom70

First I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread, so if I repeat an idea that's already been expressed........

I have a real problem with the whole "obesity epidemic" nomenclature. When I think of the word epidemic I think of a rapid and uncontrolled spread of a communicable disease, you don't catch fat......

Of course you can catch fat!

We are really slow.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

katysmelly

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

katysmelly

Here's my thing...if you have a medical condition that is causing you to gain weight - go to a doctor and figure out what you can do to fix it. If you sit around and complain about how you have this or that, you are failing to take responsibility for yourself. It's not about trashing someone or telling they they suck at life.

You make it sound so easy!

Nobody likes a whiner, true. But, some people really do have challenges that are greater than we can judge them for. For example, someone may be prescribe mood stabilizers. Lithium can be a life-saver, but it makes people very sluggish. Significant weight gain is a main side effect. They would perhaps struggle mightily to not gain too much, but losing weight could actually elude them.

Lab2809

I agree that metabolism is often thrown around as the sole cause of obesity / being overweight.

I think its simply coming down to the fact that those that are fit or have reach their ideal weight / body shape have put in the effort to understand the concepts that underlie weight loss: nutrition and exercise.

It often probably takes a while for someone who's never considered these concepts to actually to consider that they play a role in why they are where they are, and possibly even longer to sit through and go down the learning pathway that others who have lost weight have done before them.

+1
I also love the fat gene arguement and the my whole family are large one.

Im 194lbs because I have over eaten I know I have and im not in denial about that I know I need to lose weight and I am losing slowly as I am not dong a stupid starvation diet id rather have as little as 100cal deficit and eat very nutritious meals low in fat and keep me full

^^ The fat gene argument! It angers me to no end. The majority of my family is extremely overweight. I actually had a family member (before I lost 104+ pounds my first lifestyle change around) tell me that it runs in the family and I should not bother trying to lose weight because "I would never be able to be thin. It's not in the genes"

I sure proved them wrong. With some work and healthy habits, I am healthy and on my way to being very fit.

I do agree tho. Once you become more healthy, you adopt a no nonsense attitude, make no excuses and do not have a defeated attitude about a healthy lifestyle (like "slow metabolism is the problem").

grinch031

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I guess these folks lack the psychological or moral defect that leads to gluttonous excuse-driven behavior.

ProjectLGD

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I guess these folks lack the psychological or moral defect that leads to gluttonous excuse-driven behavior.

Really?? You want to make this a moral issue? If your immoral issues (by my standards not yours), faults and imperfections were visible for all to see, what would you look like? This kind of judgemental bashing of fat people is so shallow and immature its pathetic. "Judge not lest ye be judged."

grinch031

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I guess these folks lack the psychological or moral defect that leads to gluttonous excuse-driven behavior.

Really?? You want to make this a moral issue? If your immoral issues (by my standards not yours), faults and imperfections were visible for all to see, what would you look like? This kind of judgemental bashing of fat people is so shallow and immature its pathetic. "Judge not lest ye be judged."

I did already post my stance, but this is a long thread so I forgive you for missing the sarcasm. Basically the majority of posters here are implying this statement that I just said sarcastically.