Bye Bye Death Penalty
Replies
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I'm against the death penalty - there have been some cases when the person hasn't been guilty.
Killing for killing = wrong IMO.
Names?????
http://www.innocenceproject.org/ A whole website of people wrongly accused.
I think that the death penalty is ridiculous. You're punishing someone for taking a life by taking a life? Hypocrisy much?!
There are way too many people that have been wrongly accused and would've been executed (if Canada had the death penalty), and later were found to be innocent. You can never be 100% sure that they did it. Even confessions are worthless in court. False confessions are given far too often to be believable anymore.
From that site:
Innocence Project Case Profiles
There have been 289 post-conviction DNA exonerations in United States history. These stories are becoming more familiar as more innocent people gain their freedom through postconviction testing. They are not proof, however, that our system is righting itself.
The common themes that run through these cases — from global problems like poverty and racial issues to criminal justice issues like eyewitness misidentification, invalid or improper forensic science, overzealous police and prosecutors and inept defense counsel — cannot be ignored and continue to plague our criminal justice system.
Seventeen people had been sentenced to death before DNA proved their innocence and led to their release.
The average sentence served by DNA exonerees has been 13 years.
About 70 percent of those exonerated by DNA testing are members of minority groups.
In almost 40 percent of DNA exoneration cases, the actual perpetrator has been identified by DNA testing.
Exonerations have been won in 35 states and Washington, D.C.0 -
I think they should all be forced to watch The View until they kill themselves!0
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ONe thing for sure: Because America does have the death penalty, we also have the LOWEST RE-OFFENDING RATES too. You can't reoffend if you're put to death. That kind of simplifies and puts it into very clear perspective for for me.
Scandanavia has only approx. 25,000,000 people. America has 325,000,000. Huge difference. Small countries have less crime, for obvious reasons, so no comparison is possible.
When you have that small a population, of COURSE it becomes easier to rehab criminals.
Can you imagine the U.S. trying tp rehab every single violent criminal out there? OUr country would go broke under the weight of the costs, as if we don't already have an issue keeping ourselves out of debt... We just don't have the time to spend mollycoddling every little pansy that walks through the door with an impulse control problem.
I'm for it.
Well, that's ONE way to look at it. Another way to look at it would be for the US to look at the flaws in its society that create so many violent criminals and make changes to rehabilitate its society as a whole, thus creating less violent killers. Scandinavia and the US have vastly different crime statistics per capita, not in real numbers, which renders that part of your argument also invalid.
Or, you could just say USA! USA! USA! and forget that societal influences play a large part in creating criminals.0 -
ONe thing for sure: Because America does have the death penalty, we also have the LOWEST RE-OFFENDING RATES too. You can't reoffend if you're put to death. That kind of simplifies and puts it into very clear perspective for for me....
that is TERRIBLE logic. we have really bad recidivism rates here in the US, and a fairly small number of people are put to death, compared to how many are incarcerated. the only way what you're saying would make sense is if we put to death everyone, or nearly everyone, in prison. is that how you would have it?0 -
Let the victim's families do it. Plus, no one knows who actually kills an inmate. They can think of inventive ways to cut people's heads off without actually having to do. They don't just flip a switch. There are multiple people in a separate room that all have a button. Each person presses the button, and no one knows who actually killed the person.
And rape? To be blunt, who lines it up?
Burning alive? You want to create WWII ovens again?
Cannibalism? Necrophilia?
How do you deal with crimes against children? Go after that person's kids?
Also you want the victim's families to recreate the crime? Do you have ANY idea of the psychological torment this might cause them. 'Yup, this is EXACTLY what my daughter went through...I totally feel better now that I know that up close and personal.'
I'm being extreme, but for a reason. What does that sort of thing say about us as a society. It is one thing to be in favor of capital punishment, it is another to turn it into a Saw or Hostel sequel.
Come back and tell me that if your mother/sister/daughter/aunt gets raped and murdered.0 -
Can you imagine the U.S. trying tp rehab every single violent criminal out there? OUr country would go broke under the weight of the costs, as if we don't already have an issue keeping ourselves out of debt... We just don't have the time to spend mollycoddling every little pansy that walks through the door with an impulse control problem.
I'm for it.
oh, also, our contry would go even more broke if we executed more people instead. i'm guessing a lot of your argument is opinion-based.0 -
Wow. Being a person born and raised in Scandinavia, this thread has just completely blown my mind and made me feel truly uneasy...
I had no idea, or maybe more so it had never even crossed my mind that this amount of people could be in favour of the death penalty. And so passionately... Wow.... I'm speechless.
Like said, coming from Scandinavia, our prison systems are famously known for their concentrating on the rehabilitation of prisoners and giving them a lot of freedom. If they are impossible to rehabilitate, they are not evil they are SICK and need medical care and to be kept where they are not a danger to others... not to be killed. The whole idea repulses me.
Because of this approach, Norway, Sweden and Finland have the lowest re-offending rates and the emptiest prisons in the world. Go figure....
ONe thing for sure: Because America does have the death penalty, we also have the LOWEST RE-OFFENDING RATES too. You can't reoffend if you're put to death. That kind of simplifies and puts it into very clear perspective for for me.
Scandanavia has only approx. 25,000,000 people. America has 325,000,000. Huge difference. Small countries have less crime, for obvious reasons, so no comparison is possible.
When you have that small a population, of COURSE it becomes easier to rehab criminals.
Can you imagine the U.S. trying tp rehab every single violent criminal out there? OUr country would go broke under the weight of the costs, as if we don't already have an issue keeping ourselves out of debt... We just don't have the time to spend mollycoddling every little pansy that walks through the door with an impulse control problem.
I'm for it.
I'm sorry but I have to ask; is this a serious reply?0 -
Wow. Being a person born and raised in Scandinavia, this thread has just completely blown my mind and made me feel truly uneasy...
I had no idea, or maybe more so it had never even crossed my mind that this amount of people could be in favour of the death penalty. And so passionately... Wow.... I'm speechless.
Like said, coming from Scandinavia, our prison systems are famously known for their concentrating on the rehabilitation of prisoners and giving them a lot of freedom. If they are impossible to rehabilitate, they are not evil they are SICK and need medical care and to be kept where they are not a danger to others... not to be killed. The whole idea repulses me.
Because of this approach, Norway, Sweden and Finland have the lowest re-offending rates and the emptiest prisons in the world. Go figure....
ONe thing for sure: Because America does have the death penalty, we also have the LOWEST RE-OFFENDING RATES too. You can't reoffend if you're put to death. That kind of simplifies and puts it into very clear perspective for for me.
Scandanavia has only approx. 25,000,000 people. America has 325,000,000. Huge difference. Small countries have less crime, for obvious reasons, so no comparison is possible.
When you have that small a population, of COURSE it becomes easier to rehab criminals.
Can you imagine the U.S. trying tp rehab every single violent criminal out there? OUr country would go broke under the weight of the costs, as if we don't already have an issue keeping ourselves out of debt... We just don't have the time to spend mollycoddling every little pansy that walks through the door with an impulse control problem.
I'm for it.
actually, the US recidivism rate is 67% with over 50% being re-incarcerated.0 -
Come back and tell me that if your mother/sister/daughter/aunt gets raped and murdered.
You completely overlooked my point.
Our judicial system is supposed to be fair and impartial, that means NOT blinded by grief at the loss of a loved one. And if you honestly think telling a family to rape and murder someone the same way their mother/sister/daughter/aunt was...well I feel sorry for you. What happens if it turned out later that the ruling was wrong. Then you just had a group of people gang rape and murder an innocent person. Do you expect them to live with that on their conscience?0 -
Which is why I love that I love in Texas0
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I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.0 -
I think they should all be forced to watch The View until they kill themselves!
Or listen to Justin Bieber 24 hours a day0 -
Come back and tell me that if your mother/sister/daughter/aunt gets raped and murdered.
You completely overlooked my point.
Our judicial system is supposed to be fair and impartial, that means NOT blinded by grief at the loss of a loved one. And if you honestly think telling a family to rape and murder someone the same way their mother/sister/daughter/aunt was...well I feel sorry for you. What happens if it turned out later that the ruling was wrong. Then you just had a group of people gang rape and murder an innocent person. Do you expect them to live with that on their conscience?
You REALLY are arguing this like there's proposed legislation to enact this! :laugh:0 -
We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.
You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!
isn't that what prison is?
Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.
I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system0 -
Did anyone mention Cameron Todd Willingham yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham0
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I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and married? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than you daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
but you are advocating doing those same things to the offender which, in turn, causes the person doling out punishment to do the same acts.0 -
Come back and tell me that if your mother/sister/daughter/aunt gets raped and murdered.
I loathe this line of argument against the death penalty. It's often given by people who have no idea what they're talking about as they have never experienced such a thing, though I won't assume that's the case in your statement. Not only that, but this line of thinking promotes an attitude of "I only care if it happens to me."
I feel confident in stating that many, if not most, of victims' families would absolutely not want the killer to die like their loved one had, and even more certain in stating they would not want to mete out that punishment.0 -
Sicker than you being raped and married? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than you daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
I think it's sick to torture and brutally murder someone as part of my country's legal code. I'm for capital punishment, but your eye for an eye plan is heinous torture, which is in direct violation of the constitution (not to mention my own moral code, not that that should matter). And you want the victim's families to do that, which could cause irreparable psychological trauma to them. Killing someone is relatively easy. Living with it after isn't always so easy.0 -
I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and married? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than you daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
but you are advocating doing those same things to the offender which, in turn, causes the person doling out punishment to do the same acts.
I'm advocating putting that sick SOB to death. In my IDEAL world, it would be in the manner in which they killed their victims.0 -
If there is even one innocent person being put to death, we cannot ethically have a death penalty. And since there have been multiple cases of people being wrongly convicted (and later exonerated by DNA evidence, etc.) it is obvious that we should not have a death penalty.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As I posted earlier, I agree with the death penalty in theory. Too many people - especially a majority of the people in this thread - have no idea what they're talking about. This is what happens when people are no longer taking classes in civics. No one knows about how the government works, how the law works. They don't know how the death penalty is imposed or what cases qualify for the death penalty.
Of course we all feel revulsion when someone murders another person, or rapes someone, or molests a child. Being hesitant about the death penalty doesn't mean you're not equally upset about the atrocities that occur. There's so many things that go into the death penalty as an institution in the US that it's not as simple as "this person is the scum of the earth, they should be put to death." Death is the ultimate price to pay, and our system of justice has some deep and serious flaws. Politics, false confessions, errors in eyewitness testimony, corrupt police and district attorneys, and race all play a part in our system of justice, whether we like it or not, and these things shouldn't result in an innocent person losing their life.
Think of it this way - if there are 100,000 criminal convictions each year, and 1% of those convictions are false (which is not all that unimaginable), that's 1,000 people are were wrongly convicted each year. There's more than 3 million people in jail today in the US, and more than 3,000 inmates on death row in the US. How many of those inmates on death row were wrongly convicted?0 -
I'm not sure I'm completely for as I know some innocent people get the death penalty however it burns me to know that my tax dollars feed, cloth and put a roof over some of these low lifes...0
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ONe thing for sure: Because America does have the death penalty, we also have the LOWEST RE-OFFENDING RATES too. You can't reoffend if you're put to death. That kind of simplifies and puts it into very clear perspective for for me.
Scandanavia has only approx. 25,000,000 people. America has 325,000,000. Huge difference. Small countries have less crime, for obvious reasons, so no comparison is possible.
When you have that small a population, of COURSE it becomes easier to rehab criminals.
Can you imagine the U.S. trying tp rehab every single violent criminal out there? OUr country would go broke under the weight of the costs, as if we don't already have an issue keeping ourselves out of debt... We just don't have the time to spend mollycoddling every little pansy that walks through the door with an impulse control problem.
I'm for it.
Well, that's ONE way to look at it. Another way to look at it would be for the US to look at the flaws in its society that create so many violent criminals and make changes to rehabilitate its society as a whole, thus creating less violent killers. Scandinavia and the US have vastly different crime statistics per capita, not in real numbers, which renders that part of your argument also invalid.
Or, you could just say USA! USA! USA! and forget that societal influences play a large part in creating criminals.
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....0 -
Sicker than you being raped and married? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than you daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
I think it's sick to torture and brutally murder someone as part of my country's legal code. I'm for capital punishment, but your eye for an eye plan is heinous torture, which is in direct violation of the constitution (not to mention my own moral code, not that that should matter). And you want the victim's families to do that, which could cause irreparable psychological trauma to them. Killing someone is relatively easy. Living with it after isn't always so easy.
:laugh: again....arguing like this about to become law.
You aren't going to change my personal opinion. I'd kill the SOB in his tracks.0 -
I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.0 -
The controversy isn't about "there are some people who deserve to die vs nobody deserves to die".
It's about executing someone who turned out to be innocent. It's happened before, and DNA evidence only makes it that much easier to convincingly frame someone. So saying something like 'I only support the death penalty if there is 100% DNA evidence to support the charges..." does not mean innocent people will not be executed.
If an innocent person is executed their blood is not just on the hands of the jury members, it's on the hands of all the citizens of that state whose taxes enabled the execution. Morally speaking, one of the worst things a person can do is be accountable for the death of another innocent person, and just because we voted on it as a group doesn't make it moral.
I disagree... sure that's part of the argument... but on a more basic level the controversy lies in whether or not other people have the right to see to the death of someone simply because they might deserve to die.0 -
You REALLY are arguing this like there's proposed legislation to enact this! :laugh:
You're the one who said it, I think it's stupid and that this line of conversation is what gives folks who are against the death penalty more of an argument against it. I will vehemently oppose any suggestions along that line of thinking.0 -
We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.
You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!
isn't that what prison is?
Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.
I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system
Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.
I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.0 -
Best post I've read so far:I don't have a problem with abolishing the death penalty, although doing so is not at the top of my priority list. My reasons against the death penalty are a combination of what I consider the practical and the personal.
1. The death penalty does not work as a deterrent--never has in any society and it never will.
2. There is no way to administer the death penalty that is 100% error-free. This is not a situation where 90%, 95% or even 99% accuracy is good enough. If taking a human life for unjustified reasons is such a heinous act that it deserves the death penalty, then there is NO circumstance in which mistakenly executing someone can be allowable. Ever. Especially since there is no practical justification for the death penalty.
3. I respect that it is possible that those who support the death penalty can do so for sincere reasons, even though I know few death penalty supporters that I respect.
4. I think it is important for society to model the behaviors that are expected in others. I think it sends a conflicting message to say that taking a human life is a horrible act and then justify society's taking of a human life. Instead of reaching for a higher level of moral behavior, we give in to our more base emotions, and I think that demeans our culture (I fully admit that this is a personal opinion, not supported by any data whatsoever).
5. By supporting the death penalty, we ally ourselves morally more with countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Cuba, the Sudan, etc. Is that really the moral standard we want to set for the US? Shouldn't we aspire to more?
I would also like to make it clear that being against the death penalty has NOTHING to do with being "soft on crime" or not recognizing the seriousness of the crime. That is a pernicious lie that seems to come up in every death penalty discussion.0 -
Two of my favourite quotes:
"Why do people, kill people, who kill people, to show that killing people is wrong?"
"An eye for an eye and we'd all be blind..."
I work in a high secure hospital, and I don't condone the death penalty, but I can empathise with those that agree. I see a lot of people saying 'what if it was your friend/family raped or murdered?'... well what if it was your friend/family up for the death penalty?
Anyway, I'm glad it's abolished in the UK - death is almost an easy option... lack of freedom and having your needs reduced and not met is real punishment!
But i guess instead of stock piling/ warehousing people alive above the soil, they choose to do it beneath...
TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT PEOPLE!0 -
Every state should not only have the death penalty, but like Ron White says, they should put it in "the express lane".0
This discussion has been closed.
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