Bye Bye Death Penalty
Replies
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We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.
You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!
isn't that what prison is?
Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.
I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system
Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.
I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.
think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:
It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.
Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.
I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.
we disagreed?
no, with Marll lol.0 -
I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.
Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.
While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So well put. Thank you for this.0 -
We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.
You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!
isn't that what prison is?
Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.
I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system
Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.
I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.
think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:
It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.
Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.
I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.
we disagreed?
no, with Marll lol.
gotcha... I suppose our mutual ability for reasoning has aligned us
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I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.
BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!
Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.
I bet won't like it either.
and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.
Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.
Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?
The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.
Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.
Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.
While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So well put. Thank you for this.
I actually wrote a lengthy paper on the developmental theory as it relates to serial killers... bottom line is we are all a product of what has happened to us.. and how we handled it.. end of story.0 -
Very true. The US prison system is not set up to rehabilitate. The prison system is almost solely used to keep criminals detained. I've done massive research in this area. I've pulled statistics, and I have summarized them in a masters paper in order to graduate (not a thesis but close). The US has one of the highest, if not the highest (since I researched mostly US), recidivism rates in the world. The war on drugs has not only caused an overpopulation of prisons for fairly minor crimes, but laws have further caused overcrowding. Here's a quote from my paper. "[t]he Sentencing Reform Act, which dramatically changed the sentencing structure for criminals in the United States [was passed in 1984]. This law created mandatory minimum sentencing for a variety of crimes regardless of mitigating factors or the severity of an individual’s crime (Austin and Coventry 1). According the Department of Justice, from 1991 to 2001, the prison population doubled in the United States due to the mandatory minimum sentencing law." THIS LAW WAS LOBBIED FOR BY WHO? Private prisons to make money! Create a plethora of people needing to use their services!
End story: prisons don't rehabilitate. That's not what they are in the market for. I MIGHT believe it is possible IF the prison system was completely overhauled. Until then, I am FOR capital punishment for the ones who kill others.
I agree with you 100%. The prison system should be overhauled. People should not be in prison for drug charges, because drugs should be legalized in this country.
Prisons should be stripped down to basic accomodations, no TV, no phones, no internet. Prisoners should be fed the minimum amount to keep them alive and they should NOT be allowed to lift weights or other activities that build a bigger stronger criminal. They should be provided with basic educational assistance for those that need or want it, and should be provided with books and books on tape, they should be provided with religious services and basic medical care (no life prolonging procedures however like chemotherapy and transplants). Prison should be a time to reflect on their wrong doings and should be generally unpleasant.
This would go for most offenders, hopefully we'd release more educated, thoughful and remorseful people when they get to the end of their sentence. Murderers, rapists and child molesters shouldn't even be allowed that luxury however in my opinion.0 -
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other. To confirm what you seem to already think I will say, yes I am absolutely pro-choice, choice being the key word. My support of a woman's right to choose when to have a child does not exclude or detract from my opposition to the death penalty. They are two entirely different issues, only mixed when media outlets such as Fox News tell Americans they are one and the same.
Have you looked at the statistics on quality of life in countries with high tax rates? High taxation does not mean a poor quality of living, when done properly it's quite the opposite. How is the quality of life for many low-income people in the US right now, with your lower tax rates? Not very good, in large part thanks to the lack of a social safety net. This you find in properly managed countries with high taxation.
Just to give an inside opinion on "high" taxation.... When I was living in my home country I was happy to pay my "high" taxes. I was getting plenty in return. Free healthcare, dentalcare, childcare, very long paid maternity leave, clean enviroment, well looked after roads.... just to name a few. Damn, take my money anytime if it makes my life highly care free.0 -
I believe all rapists, child molestors, and people who kill innocent people should be put to death. I think people who oppose the death penalty are naive. Hopefully you are never touched by violent crime.. and then what? Beg for the perpetrator to be allowed to live? Really?
You are addressing people in this thread who do not agree with the death penalty who have already been touched by crimes that you deem worthy of the death penality.
How am I naive, exactly?
Taking another life and making their innocent families suffer makes me feel better how? I would really like to know.
It's you that I hope is never touched by any crime. Really.
Its naive when people use the 'wait til it happens to your family member', then you'll want the death penalty. Justice should be applied objectively, not based on someone's emotions.
I'd like to see what the proponents say when their father, brother, husband, son is falsely accused and put to death for a crime they didn't commit.
Ah, but you are thinking that I HAVEN'T been touched by crime. If you want the truth, I believe they should be tortured, before being put to death. You never know who that person is going to be.. it can be the neighbor that your kids trust so much, it can be that handsome, articulate man in law school, like Ted Bundy, who escaped from prison multiple times, I might add.. or it can be the less intelligent person with an IQ of only 85 like Gary Ridgeway.. who murdered nearly 100 women, but to everybody, he was just.. a "nice" guy.. Or the killer who kidnapped a 3 year old boy from oregon, and raped him, and murdered him, and raped him again, before dissecting his private parts.. you want these people to live? They should die. I could go on and on, but frankly, I don't have the stomach for it. You can think what you want, you can believe what you want- we will never change each others minds. I believe that some people should be put down like the animals they are.0 -
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other. To confirm what you seem to already think I will say, yes I am absolutely pro-choice, choice being the key word. My support of a woman's right to choose when to have a child does not exclude or detract from my opposition to the death penalty. They are two entirely different issues, only mixed when media outlets such as Fox News tell Americans they are one and the same.
Have you looked at the statistics on quality of life in countries with high tax rates? High taxation does not mean a poor quality of living, when done properly it's quite the opposite. How is the quality of life for many low-income people in the US right now, with your lower tax rates? Not very good, in large part thanks to the lack of a social safety net. This you find in properly managed countries with high taxation.
Just to give an inside opinion on "high" taxation.... When I was living in my home country I was happy to pay my "high" taxes. I was getting plenty in return. Free healthcare, dentalcare, childcare, very long paid maternity leave, clean enviroment, well looked after roads.... just to name a few. Damn, take my money anytime if it makes my life highly care free.
I would love to be a citizen of a country like that. I was lucky enough to have a professor last semester who was a huge proponent of "high" taxation, the facts he presented really opened my eyes, not that I was against it to begin with, just uninformed. The quality of living in countries like your home country absolutely can not be matched. They are examples of systems which work extremely well for all citizens, not just the few at the top.0 -
Very true. The US prison system is not set up to rehabilitate. The prison system is almost solely used to keep criminals detained. I've done massive research in this area. I've pulled statistics, and I have summarized them in a masters paper in order to graduate (not a thesis but close). The US has one of the highest, if not the highest (since I researched mostly US), recidivism rates in the world. The war on drugs has not only caused an overpopulation of prisons for fairly minor crimes, but laws have further caused overcrowding. Here's a quote from my paper. "[t]he Sentencing Reform Act, which dramatically changed the sentencing structure for criminals in the United States [was passed in 1984]. This law created mandatory minimum sentencing for a variety of crimes regardless of mitigating factors or the severity of an individual’s crime (Austin and Coventry 1). According the Department of Justice, from 1991 to 2001, the prison population doubled in the United States due to the mandatory minimum sentencing law." THIS LAW WAS LOBBIED FOR BY WHO? Private prisons to make money! Create a plethora of people needing to use their services!
End story: prisons don't rehabilitate. That's not what they are in the market for. I MIGHT believe it is possible IF the prison system was completely overhauled. Until then, I am FOR capital punishment for the ones who kill others.
I agree with you 100%. The prison system should be overhauled. People should not be in prison for drug charges, because drugs should be legalized in this country.
Prisons should be stripped down to basic accomodations, no TV, no phones, no internet. Prisoners should be fed the minimum amount to keep them alive and they should NOT be allowed to lift weights or other activities that build a bigger stronger criminal. They should be provided with basic educational assistance for those that need or want it, and should be provided with books and books on tape, they should be provided with religious services and basic medical care (no life prolonging procedures however like chemotherapy and transplants). Prison should be a time to reflect on their wrong doings and should be generally unpleasant.
This would go for most offenders, hopefully we'd release more educated, thoughful and remorseful people when they get to the end of their sentence. Murderers, rapists and child molesters shouldn't even be allowed that luxury however in my opinion.
Marijuana should be legalized. DRUGS should not be.0 -
I am from the city that executed TImothy McVey in Indiana. However, being Catholic, I have a hard time justifying the death penalty. I am conflicted.
I think all those on Death Row should instead be dropped on an island with other felons and let them fend for themselves. Let Darwin win.
Right in Genesis it state "He who shedeth man's blood by man shall his blood be shedeth"0 -
Ah, but you are thinking that I HAVEN'T been touched by crime. If you want the truth, I believe they should be tortured, before being put to death. You never know who that person is going to be.. it can be the neighbor that your kids trust so much, it can be that handsome, articulate man in law school, like Ted Bundy, who escaped from prison multiple times, I might add.. or it can be the less intelligent person with an IQ of only 85 like Gary Ridgeway.. who murdered nearly 100 women, but to everybody, he was just.. a "nice" guy.. Or the killer who kidnapped a 3 year old boy from oregon, and raped him, and murdered him, and raped him again, before dissecting his private parts.. you want these people to live? They should die. I could go on and on, but frankly, I don't have the stomach for it. You can think what you want, you can believe what you want- we will never change each others minds. I believe that some people should be put down like the animals they are.
What does society gain by torturing the criminal before death? What greater good does that serve? How does that give the victim's family any more closure than death does?0 -
I believe all rapists, child molestors, and people who kill innocent people should be put to death. I think people who oppose the death penalty are naive. Hopefully you are never touched by violent crime.. and then what? Beg for the perpetrator to be allowed to live? Really?
You are addressing people in this thread who do not agree with the death penalty who have already been touched by crimes that you deem worthy of the death penality.
How am I naive, exactly?
Taking another life and making their innocent families suffer makes me feel better how? I would really like to know.
It's you that I hope is never touched by any crime. Really.
Its naive when people use the 'wait til it happens to your family member', then you'll want the death penalty. Justice should be applied objectively, not based on someone's emotions.
I'd like to see what the proponents say when their father, brother, husband, son is falsely accused and put to death for a crime they didn't commit.
Ah, but you are thinking that I HAVEN'T been touched by crime. If you want the truth, I believe they should be tortured, before being put to death. You never know who that person is going to be.. it can be the neighbor that your kids trust so much, it can be that handsome, articulate man in law school, like Ted Bundy, who escaped from prison multiple times, I might add.. or it can be the less intelligent person with an IQ of only 85 like Gary Ridgeway.. who murdered nearly 100 women, but to everybody, he was just.. a "nice" guy.. Or the killer who kidnapped a 3 year old boy from oregon, and raped him, and murdered him, and raped him again, before dissecting his private parts.. you want these people to live? They should die. I could go on and on, but frankly, I don't have the stomach for it. You can think what you want, you can believe what you want- we will never change each others minds. I believe that some people should be put down like the animals they are.
I think they deserve to live because they can't help the way they are. Nobody chooses to be a serial killer! They have impulses that nobody else has. The reasons for their behavior is too complicated for most of us to understand. Combine that with the possibility that the accused is innocent, and they shouldn't be put to death. Nobody wins or feels any better when anybody dies. Life in prison is all that is necessary in these types of cases.0 -
I was born in Texas, that should about sum up my view on the subject.
I think it was Ron White who said not only does Texas have the death penalty....we have put in an express lane!!0 -
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other.
Yes you are, or you wouldn't be replying to me. Death is Death is Death.
I am FOR abortion for women, I am ALSO FOR the death penalty. At least I can be consistent in my beliefs .
Nice try though, It's been fun. And you indeed revealed hypocrisy, whether or not you will admit it.0 -
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other.
Yes you are, or you wouldn't be replying to me. Death is DeathI am FOR abortion for women, I am ALSO FOR the deth penalty. At least I can be consistent in my beliefs (and even be WRONG about both of them!) where you cannot.
Nice try though, It's been fun. And you indeed revealed hypocrisy, whether or not you will admit it.
That's silly, that's saying that if you agree in death for one reason you have to for another you're a hypocrite. Ok, you're for abortion and capital punishment, that means you must also be for the murder of anyone whose first name is Justin or you're a hypocrite.
Granted it would shut up Bieber fans and all...0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.0 -
Ah, but you are thinking that I HAVEN'T been touched by crime. If you want the truth, I believe they should be tortured, before being put to death. You never know who that person is going to be.. it can be the neighbor that your kids trust so much, it can be that handsome, articulate man in law school, like Ted Bundy, who escaped from prison multiple times, I might add.. or it can be the less intelligent person with an IQ of only 85 like Gary Ridgeway.. who murdered nearly 100 women, but to everybody, he was just.. a "nice" guy.. Or the killer who kidnapped a 3 year old boy from oregon, and raped him, and murdered him, and raped him again, before dissecting his private parts.. you want these people to live? They should die. I could go on and on, but frankly, I don't have the stomach for it. You can think what you want, you can believe what you want- we will never change each others minds. I believe that some people should be put down like the animals they are.
What does society gain by torturing the criminal before death? What greater good does that serve? How does that give the victim's family any more closure than death does?
Oooo mememe..... It makes people feel like they got justice.
That was easy.0 -
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other.
Yes you are, or you wouldn't be replying to me. Death is DeathI am FOR abortion for women, I am ALSO FOR the deth penalty. At least I can be consistent in my beliefs (and even be WRONG about both of them!) where you cannot.
Nice try though, It's been fun. And you indeed revealed hypocrisy, whether or not you will admit it.
Yeah I'm sure now that this simply is a troll. Glad I didn't get into it in the first place. But have to say: good one! Cheers!0 -
Oooo mememe..... It makes people feel like they got justice.
That was easy.
Why do you consider torture+death greater justice than death? At what point do we draw the line?0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.0 -
bump0
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Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.0
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I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons.
1. For some reason we can't seem to figure out a way to do it humanely. There's lots of controversy over just how painful our methods are currently.
2. Our justice isn't foolproof. We make mistakes. If we value a victim's life so much that we want to put a murderer to death, how we can claim that we're ok with our convictions only being 99% accurate. That figure is made up, but anything under 100% is sufficient to keep me from approving of a death penalty.
There may be other reasons, but these require less thought and are enough for me to vote down a death penalty.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.0 -
I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons.
1. For some reason we can't seem to figure out a way to do it humanely. There's lots of controversy over just how painful our methods are currently.
2. Our justice isn't foolproof. We make mistakes. If we value a victim's life so much that we want to put a murderer to death, how we can claim that we're ok with our convictions only being 99% accurate. That figure is made up, but anything under 100% is sufficient to keep me from approving of a death penalty.
There may be other reasons, but these require less thought and are enough for me to vote down a death penalty.
Mistakes is an under-statement. We have prosecutors who are so adamant that someone is guilty because of little more than a gut feeling that they are willing to lie and deceive to make sure they get a conviction.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.
If I had a dog that had a compulsion to attack the neighborhood kids, it would be put down. I know I'll get blasted for that analogy, but I think the concept is the same. If the compulsion cannot be controlled, cannot be rehabilitated and they only face a life behind bars or in a mental institution, what is even the point?0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.
Hatred and revenge is the theme of many posters here on this thread. Anyways like I said, I disagree that they need to be eliminated simply because they are humans and the fact that they committed the crime is enough tragedy. Adding more tragedy isn't going to make anyone feel better.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.
If I had a dog that had a compulsion to attack the neighborhood kids, it would be put down. I know I'll get blasted for that analogy, but I think the concept is the same. If the compulsion cannot be controlled, cannot be rehabilitated and they only face a life behind bars or in a mental institution, what is even the point?
I guess because we value human life more than a dog's life. That's a good point though.0 -
Can't we please give this thread the "Needle"???0
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