Survey time: Should a guy pay on a first date?

TheWinman

I always pay on the first date and will respectfully refuse my date's offer to pay the bill, pay half or pay even the tip. That's the way it should be. imo I still open car doors also. lol

markymarrkk

yes... he should! if he didn't he's a douche, and if you offered money and he accepted he's a douche x 10

crisanderson27

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

But you called me irrational....isn't that judging me?

Bravo! Excellent, on topic response!

First, what you wrote, if not irrational...was certainly a huge stretch.

Second, I...and those who believe as I do (that men should pay for the first date at minimum) were clearly judged first.

Would you like to comment on topic? Or have you run out of pertinent arguments that prove somehow that me paying for dates is controlling?

here's your argument:
When I pay for everything I feel like a man. This is the way I was raised.
If I woman pays, I feel that I am not fulfilling my responsibilities as a man
Therefore, I cannot be in relationship with a woman who wants to pay sometimes.

I cannot argue with how you feel and certainly agree that you shouldn't even try to be in a relationship with someone who would like to pay for dinner. However, I would wonder how a relationship would survive the ups and downs of life.

My point is
When a man states that he " won't let " a woman do something, it's a red flag.
Yes sometimes, there's a conflict between what two people want to do, but when one says "never' then I think there's a control issue.
In a respectful partnership, there's give and take. Woman are also capable and should be given the opportunity to show respect/admiration/love the same way (e.g. buying dinner)

On topic enough for you?

I like how you deflected the point I was making that you were judging me

I wasn't judging you hun, I was judging the rationality of your argument, and its bearing on the validity of any future discussion.

As to your reply here, you're right to an extent. Your assessment of my argument is pretty spot on, other than the fact that you've made it (and it may be that I've helped make it...due to the fact of this being a debate) very inflexible. In reality it's not like that. If you recall...I posted an exact opposite example directly from my own life proving this

Here, I'll repost:

I would appreciate a woman offering!

And as for what's so wrong about it, technically the answer is nothing...just like there's nothing wrong with him paying every time.

I'll give you an interesting example, using myself. My last girlfriend and I lived 150 miles away from each other. Our first date was on about an hours notice. She told me she wished I was closer so we could see each other that night. I asked if she was serious, she said yes...I said be ready in an hour and a half. I drove all the way there, took her to a late dinner and movie, and drove home at 5am (we spent the rest of the night sitting on an overlook talking). I paid, of course.

After that, I drove over 300 miles every single Friday just to see her for less than 12hrs, of which we spent the majority sleeping (or not, as the case may have been lol). I paid for my fuel, our food, drinks...entertainment...and whatever else came up during those visits.

Now comes the interesting part. Shortly before we'd met...I had seriously injured my arm (requiring major reconstructive surgery), and have been out of work because of it for pushing 4mos. Through the course of our relationship, which had become committed, circumstances came up requiring me to spend a large portion of my savings on an emergency. She immediately wanted to take up financial responsibility for our time together, and even tried to help with some of my bills. I allowed it for two reasons. First...because this was supposed to be a 'permanent' relationship. Second, because it would have genuinely hurt her had I not allowed her to share in those responsibilities, and her feelings were far more important to me than my own...even though it absolutely killed me for things to go in that direction.

So which part of me paying for everything was controlling her? And what is so hard to understand about it being difficult as a man to allow her to pay for me?

Also to clarify, I'd like to add that once we are together to the point of shared finances, or even implied shared finances...all of that changes to an extent. At that point, it's 'our' money, and who 'pays' becomes irrelevant.

I didn't like it, and until we're at a point where it's joint finances...I still won't like it...but flexibility is important in life period.

As to the second part of your post...regarding the word 'let'. The English language...most languages in general for that matter, only allow for so much specific information to be given in a reasonable length statement. The rest has to be implied. 'Let' is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't 'let' (assuming normal circumstances) you pay on our first date, any more than I'd 'let' you walk in front of a moving bus.

How you can get a red flag out of either of those statements, is beyond me. Along with this, your assumption that me paying in some way implies she is incapable, is flawed.

Additionally I'd like to ask, why does she have to show that appreciation in the same way? Why not in other ways that don't offend her man's belief system? Which part of that compromise shows any disrespect?

Also, much better, as far as being on topic.

marieautumn

so i cant help but notice most, if not ALL, men have said yes. if i had to guess, i would say all these women who are saying no the woman should pay her own way have boyfriend's who make them pay for everything. IJS :flowerforyou:

Il_DaniD_lI

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

No Dumbass...If you offer to pay, you better have the money to fork it over. Don't say something unless it is the truth. Nobody likes a liar.

*dumb *kitten*
The man *should* refuse to let her pay, dumb *kitten*.

Don't know where you read "I don't really have the money to pay for myself, but I'll offer anyways" :noway:

totallytasha

I think the guy should pay, hold the door, etc. The woman can definitely offer to pay, and certainly plan on having the money there if she needs to, but really, just accept the chivalry. Saying 'I'd like to take you to dinner' is a really far cry from 'I am the man and you will wash all my clothing in silent obedience and you will like it'.

I appreciate the kind gestures. I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a gentleman in this way. On the other hand, the second he got into his head that I COULDN'T pay or was somehow dependent on him, he'd be getting kicked. I am woman - hear me roar! There's a big difference between appreciating chivalry and being a helpless blob.

No, I don't NEED you to pay for my dinner, but I really love that you're man enough to want to.

crisanderson27

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

No Dumbass...If you offer to pay, you better have the money to fork it over. Don't say something unless it is the truth. Nobody likes a liar.

You do realize you just called this young lady a dumbass, for giving her opinion just as a hundred other women have?

Yeah dude, you're a real winner.

carloc

Normally on a first date I always offer to take care of the bill. I never use the word Pay, referencing money. If we are having diner I will also discuss whats on the menu and ask my date what she would like to eat. Its a great way to start the conversation. When the waiter(ess) arrives I will order for my date (what she wanted) and then order what I would like. I always get a pleasant look of surprise

I don't think it is about chivalry, its about respect, and enjoying the company of your date. Now if my date will not take no for an answer regarding the check. I will split the bill, rather than keep insisting, makes you sound like a control freak. I rarely find much objection though. Dates are dynamic, people on dates should also be dynamic.

I feel that sometimes from a female point of view it may seem like you may be trying to buy something when offered with too much insistence.

crisanderson27

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

No Dumbass...If you offer to pay, you better have the money to fork it over. Don't say something unless it is the truth. Nobody likes a liar.

*dumb *kitten*
The man *should* refuse to let her pay, dumb *kitten*.

Don't know where you read "I don't really have the money to pay for myself, but I'll offer anyways" :noway:

You beat me to it lol!

:flowerforyou:

crisanderson27

I think the guy should pay, hold the door, etc. The woman can definitely offer to pay, and certainly plan on having the money there if she needs to, but really, just accept the chivalry. Saying 'I'd like to take you to dinner' is a really far cry from 'I am the man and you will wash all my clothing in silent obedience and you will like it'.

I appreciate the kind gestures. I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a gentleman in this way. On the other hand, the second he got into his head that I COULDN'T pay or was somehow dependent on him, he'd be getting kicked. I am woman - hear me roar! There's a big difference between appreciating chivalry and being a helpless blob.

No, I don't NEED you to pay for my dinner, but I really love that you're man enough to want to.

Exactly!! A capable, intelligent, woman...who is willing to allow me to be her man, and do man things for her...is an incredible thing. I don't understand how this is so hard to comprehend?

crisanderson27

if i pay, i expect for him to give it up.

Hmm...I may have to revise my opinion on this topic...

totallytasha

I think the guy should pay, hold the door, etc. The woman can definitely offer to pay, and certainly plan on having the money there if she needs to, but really, just accept the chivalry. Saying 'I'd like to take you to dinner' is a really far cry from 'I am the man and you will wash all my clothing in silent obedience and you will like it'.

I appreciate the kind gestures. I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a gentleman in this way. On the other hand, the second he got into his head that I COULDN'T pay or was somehow dependent on him, he'd be getting kicked. I am woman - hear me roar! There's a big difference between appreciating chivalry and being a helpless blob.

No, I don't NEED you to pay for my dinner, but I really love that you're man enough to want to.

Exactly!! A capable, intelligent, woman...who is willing to allow me to be her man, and do man things for her...is an incredible thing. I don't understand how this is so hard to comprehend?

You totally sound like my boyfriend : ) I have my own place and take care of myself just fine, but I had him fix the oven handle and take out my trash, just because he likes to be the man. He knows I can do it myself, but it makes him happy to take care of me, and it makes me happy that he loves me enough to want to. Never an ounce of respect lost or the thought that I'm some weaker sub-human.

leannems

Just to throw this out there (have fun y'all, this is my last post of the day): What about in same-sex couple situations? Here you've got two women, where obviously neither is a man, or you've got two men who are both...well...men.


Safe to say whoever does the inviting pays? But...what about when you've got two men, does that mean one is less of a man for not paying? I think not.

The rule I follow applies to any mix of genders in a couple:

The person who asked should be prepared to pay for the full thing. The person who was asked may offer to pay, but in the early stages of the relationship, the asker should decline. Once folks have been dating for longer, or are in a more serious relationship, they should pay back and forth unless special circumstances are involved (including, but not limited to, discrepancy in income and/or one person has a need to pay all the time to feel like a "man" or a "woman").

I don't think this is that complicated. I also think the rules only apply early on in the courtship - after that, the individual circumstances will always rule.

trainorgirl

I swear with all the (insert cheering tone) "raw raw- VAG!*A RIGHTS" woman they have made most men lose Chivalry because men get so slandered/scolded for their good manors.. The men are so confused cause what ever they do they get SH!* on because the "raw raw- VAG!*A RIGHTS" woman will be like I CAN GET MY OWN DOOR!!! I CAN GET MY OWN DINNER!!! RAWWWW RAWWWWWRRR but if THOSE woman want all fairness with everything next time you need a heavy stuff moved or things fixed ask a chick.. 99% of the time they will ask the man to borrow his truck to help her move!!!

I think men should pay!! Men should make their lady feel taken care of and special.. and if it works out she can be a stay at home mom to even better!!!!

And I say thank you to the men that do buy dinners, hold doors, fix things around the house....

I say thank you to anyone that holds my door!! guy or girl!!! I still believe its ladies first!!! I was brought up that way...

leannems

Normally on a first date I always offer to take care of the bill. I never use the word Pay, referencing money. If we are having diner I will also discuss whats on the menu and ask my date what she would like to eat. Its a great way to start the conversation. When the waiter(ess) arrives I will order for my date (what she wanted) and then order what I would like. I always get a pleasant look of surprise

ooooh - I don't like to be ordered for. I frequently change my mind a million times and don't have a decision until it comes out of my mouth and may want a special request. I like to make those requests myself because I think asking very politely is the key (and sometimes explaining that you're not a pain in the butt, but are watching your health or allergic or whatever is how you order special without annoying the waiter/ess).

ster81

Men should pay.. period.. No matter who asked who on the date...

SaketoKim

Yes the man should pay, especially if he asked her.

crisanderson27

I think the guy should pay, hold the door, etc. The woman can definitely offer to pay, and certainly plan on having the money there if she needs to, but really, just accept the chivalry. Saying 'I'd like to take you to dinner' is a really far cry from 'I am the man and you will wash all my clothing in silent obedience and you will like it'.

I appreciate the kind gestures. I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a gentleman in this way. On the other hand, the second he got into his head that I COULDN'T pay or was somehow dependent on him, he'd be getting kicked. I am woman - hear me roar! There's a big difference between appreciating chivalry and being a helpless blob.

No, I don't NEED you to pay for my dinner, but I really love that you're man enough to want to.

Exactly!! A capable, intelligent, woman...who is willing to allow me to be her man, and do man things for her...is an incredible thing. I don't understand how this is so hard to comprehend?

You totally sound like my boyfriend : ) I have my own place and take care of myself just fine, but I had him fix the oven handle and take out my trash, just because he likes to be the man. He knows I can do it myself, but it makes him happy to take care of me, and it makes me happy that he loves me enough to want to. Never an ounce of respect lost or the thought that I'm some weaker sub-human.

Your boyfriend is a lucky, lucky man!

This is the point for those women who feel that somehow letting a man be a man, makes you less of a woman. The fact that this young lady is self assured enough to give the things her boyfriend needs, just because he needs them, without any sense that she's lost anything of herself...proves that she truly is her own person. I mean honestly, the women out there screaming 'independence!!' as a warcry, just sound like they have something to prove.

This young lady, has nothing to prove, and therein lies the proof.

totallytasha

I think the guy should pay, hold the door, etc. The woman can definitely offer to pay, and certainly plan on having the money there if she needs to, but really, just accept the chivalry. Saying 'I'd like to take you to dinner' is a really far cry from 'I am the man and you will wash all my clothing in silent obedience and you will like it'.

I appreciate the kind gestures. I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a gentleman in this way. On the other hand, the second he got into his head that I COULDN'T pay or was somehow dependent on him, he'd be getting kicked. I am woman - hear me roar! There's a big difference between appreciating chivalry and being a helpless blob.

No, I don't NEED you to pay for my dinner, but I really love that you're man enough to want to.

Exactly!! A capable, intelligent, woman...who is willing to allow me to be her man, and do man things for her...is an incredible thing. I don't understand how this is so hard to comprehend?

You totally sound like my boyfriend : ) I have my own place and take care of myself just fine, but I had him fix the oven handle and take out my trash, just because he likes to be the man. He knows I can do it myself, but it makes him happy to take care of me, and it makes me happy that he loves me enough to want to. Never an ounce of respect lost or the thought that I'm some weaker sub-human.

Your boyfriend is a lucky, lucky man!

This is the point for those women who feel that somehow letting a man be a man, makes you less of a woman. The fact that this young lady is self assured enough to give the things her boyfriend needs, just because he needs them, without any sense that she's lost anything of herself...proves that she truly is her own person. I mean honestly, the women out there screaming 'independence!!' as a warcry, just sound like they have something to prove.

This young lady, has nothing to prove, and therein lies the proof.

Tee hee! I feel so special :blushing:

EpiGaiaRepens

Men should pay.. period.. No matter who asked who on the date...

Ster81...i'm a little short on cash these days.

Want to go out for some mexican food? My treat! *wink* *wink*

heyitsmegxx

Yes, he should.

Rae6503

Everyone should calm down a bit about what men and women "should" and "shouldn't" do. We are individuals. We can all do different things. If I want to be equal on every thing with my partner then chances are I can find a partner who feels the same. If I want my partner to pay for everything and kill bugs, yup, I bet I could find one of those too. Lets not get our panties in a twist over what someone we'd never date anyway prefers.

crisanderson27

Everyone should calm down a bit about what men and women "should" and "shouldn't" do. We are individuals. We can all do different things. If I want to be equal on every thing with my partner then chances are I can find a partner who feels the same. If I want my partner to pay for everything and kill bugs, yup, I bet I could find one of those too. Lets not get our panties in a twist over what someone we'd never date anyway prefers.

*calmly untwists his panties while turning his nose up at the other side*

You're right.../sigh!

HMonsterX

It's just an amusing double standard. Women want equal rights in everything, yet want the man to "be a man" and pay?! Sexist!

Equality should apply to all things, not just certain things.

I've seen women who when a man hold a door open for them, they say "I can do it myself thank you!".

Chivalry is dead...and who killed it?




Women.

*ducks from all the flames*

sunnyday789

@chrisanderson

"I wasn't judging you hun, I was judging the rationality of your argument, and its bearing on the validity of any future discussion. so, here's my logic"

You said/implied
Majority of people think men should pay
Therefore, because of this I am right to insist to pay.

I replied:
A societal norm does not necessarily mean it's the right way do do things.
I used women's right to vote as an example.

This is not irrational so not sure where you think the logic is flawed. It is permissible in logic to use examples to argue for a point. To call me irrational after that was ironically irrational of you.

However, your response to my stance that they are comparable, left me scratching my head.
I use a type of gun to hunt (I assume animals)
The Navy used a different gun to kill people in world war 2.
Not sure how that is rational or what point you trying to make.

'Let' is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't 'let' (assuming normal circumstances) you pay on our first date, any more than I'd 'let' you walk in front of a moving bus."
Not sure what you mean by this. Would paying for dinner be the same as risking my life?

Red flags go up when person states absolutes like " I would never" in regards to perfectly normal thing like treating someone to dinner. Yes, woman can show appreciation a different way, but why would you restrict it?

Yes, I did recall that your circumstances had changed but that you stated you had a really hard time accepting this, that you didn't like it. Kinda proves my point that with your insistence on being the provider, it will create a difficult situation. If your masculinity is determined by you being the provider, you may have struggles with your self esteem which almost always has a detrimental effect on relationships.


edit to add, ha ha you called me hun:laugh:

foodfight247

If the situation was different. Lets say you made dinner for your guy thinking it would be a sweet gesture but instead he responded to it like "No thanks but I can make my own food" How would you feel?

Hmmm - not sure what to think here, as this happens quite a fair bit in my house.... in fairness, cos he's worked real late. So rather than cook something I know he aint gonna eat, I just cook for me and my little one and let him sort himself out. Which I would like to point out, he would much rather he do. Which is fine by me. That doesn't mean he's being rude or disrespectful to me....its just him being independent. Great....BUT...yes, it would be nice to sit down all of us just a bit more often to a family meal. I probably do more for him than he does for me, but at the moment, I'm fine with that. I'd love it if things were a little different - can't deny that. Every relationship is different I guess and every male and femaile will view things differently depending on circumstance. .

AS for the question at hand - I personally would offer to pay but I certainly would not be offended if the guy was insistent on paying on a first date.....but then I'm so used to my partner paying for everything. But I still like to offer.

I could droan on for hours and go completely off topic.....but I won't. lol!

retunks

I'm old school. The man always pays, period.

shannoninBC

No clue. I haven't been on a date in 17 years.

sunnyday789

It's just an amusing double standard. Women want equal rights in everything, yet want the man to "be a man" and pay?! Sexist!

Equality should apply to all things, not just certain things.

I've seen women who when a man hold a door open for them, they say "I can do it myself thank you!".

Chivalry is dead...and who killed it?




Women.

*ducks from all the flames*

Sometimes, when appropriate (e.g. someone coming not far behind me, men carrying stuff, etc) I hold doors for men.
Maybe we can reincarnate chivalry and define it as people doing nice things for other people?

MrEmoticon

Most guys that I know don't mind this actually. Now if you embarrass them in public, then its different. I've known guys who just honestly don't know any better. Or sometimes the last girl they dated was an "ultra feminist independent type" so it left a bad taste in their mouth and now they think girls hate when they do nice things.

If a guy treats you in a way that you don't like, even if its something small like he didn't hold the door for you, you should let him know. If he actually gives a damn about you, he'll correct the behavior.

So, if I don't hold the door open for a girl, or worship her every breath, I need to correct my behavior?

the last girl I was with stayed at home, didn't work. I paid for everything. She was a dirty *kitten*. But hey, she was traditional!

So that left a bad taste in my mouth, not women who make me think, "I think she'll be alive next time I come around, since she's an adult and all." Because you know, nothing like having a big, spoiled kid to take care of before you even date! And that's exactly how you seem like you would be.

Then it's your fault for putting up with it. It works both ways, you should have let her know you didn't like it and either gave her a chance to correct her behavior or walk away. No need to take your sour relationship out on me.

Wait, so it's my fault for paying for everything and not making her work and pay for stuff? Doesn't that go against everything you just said?

You said she did nothing, was a spoiled kid, and a dirty *kitten*. I'm saying its your fault for allowing her to treat you so badly and take advantage of you. You shouldn't have to make her do anything but you should also know and respect your own worth and be able to move on when you realize that you deserve better. Its fine if you wanted to take care of her financially but she should take care of you in other ways whether its just being supportive emotionally, taking care of the house, or being there when you need her.

Now if she's going behind your back being a *kitten*, being selfish, and overall just using you, then you should never stay with a person like that at all. There needs to be some kind of balance.

She did nothing as far as going to work. She cleaned, I cooked because I'm a better cook. I say she's a *kitten* because she cheated on me. I say she was a spoiled kid because like you, she believed the man was the provider, and as long as she cleaned at home, she was entitled to everything.