Home school vs public school?

countrymom1

As a certified, licensed school teacher, I am always concerned when parents pull their children out of regular school and say they will be "homeschooling" their child from that point forward. I will share my reasons below:

1. Qualifications/educational level of parents - Can a parent reach and teach their child the important things that child needs to know? Do they know what "developmentally appropriate" is for their child's age? Are the parents knowledgeable enough about the curriculum to present it in ways the child understands?

2. Is the curriculum relevant? Is the child learning what should be learned, versus what the parents want that child to learn? (some HS programs offer "revisionist" history, where important truths are conveniently left out - eg, slavery, holocaust, etc) There are certain skill sets/requirements all children MUST know in order to be well rounded adults. Slanted or inaccurate information can negatively affect a child's future.

3. Is the parent willing to sit by their child, invest the time, and hold their children accountable for their school work? Many parents nowadays have to work, and trusting their young child to stay home and do their school work all on line is a recipe for disaster. My daughter's friend is now being homeschooled (due to bullying) and guess what? This girl only gets 5 hours of weekly school work, which is less than one full day's worth of schooling. In a WEEK.

4. Schools provide the opportunity for children to learn HOW to get along with others, even if the children are being bullied. Instead of retreating into a "safe" world, it is better to learn how to handle the bullying and work on developing self esteem. Running away from it doesn't build self confidence, it only pushes the real issues aside.

I hope this provides you with some real information to make a very educated choice. I'm not anti-HS, I am against homeschool programs that end up causing more harm than good. Make sure your child is being monitored on a regular, weekly basis, by qualified school teachers, and is learning STATE curriculum standards. If those criteria are met, then a HS program should be okay overall.

First of all, let me say that I absolutely agree that not everyone is cut out for homeschooling. It does take a lot of time and dedication. The bottom line is the parents need to be involved in their child's education, whether it be public, private, or home school. As a side note, here is a VERY short list of famous homeschoolers who thrived and were/are very successful adults: Louis Armstrong, George Washington, George Patton, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Ray Kroc, Clara Barton, The Wright Brothers, Thomas Jefferson, Susan B. Anthony, and Beatrix Potter. The list could go on and on.

1. I have a friend who was homeschooled by his mother, who only had a high school diploma. He graduated at 15 and started college. He is very successful today. It is not all about the parents, though. The parents job is to teach the child to have a love for learning, so that they will explore and learn on their own. One can present material, but one cannot force someone to learn. There are innumerable resources for home schoolers. I home school my two children and I would not even begin to pretend I can teach chemistry. Therefore, we joined a co-op, where all the high school classes are taught by parents who have a college degree and know and are able to teach the material. We also use standardized testing every year to make sure we are on track. I also find it curious that if one must be "certified," then why do most public school systems allow people who have very little college hours, and may not even be majoring in education, subsitute teach?

2. I have never heard of anyone (I have been home schooling for 6 years) purposefully leaving out important historical events in teaching their child. Frankly, that is just absurd.

3. It absolutely does take an investment of time and holding the children responsible for their work .... which is why we joined a co-op. We go once a week for history, reading/writing, and science, from 9 to 3. The children then have homework to do the rest of the week in these subjects that is due the next Monday. We do the other subjects at home. Also, just as a side note about your friend's daughter. I don't know how old she is, but younger grades can absolutely cover an entire week's worth of schooling in very little time. The fact is one can just cover more material in a shorter amount of time when it is one-on-one. In public school, there is a lot of time spent getting the whole class lined up to go to the bathroom, recess, or lunch. There is time spent waiting for Johnny to find his work in his folder so that everyone is on the same page. There is time spent dealing with behavior problems. Consequently, just because a student may be at school for 8 hours does not mean they are receiving 8 hours of instruction. In fact, when you take the time from all those factors, it is nowhere near 8 hours.

4. I completely disagree that homeschoolers are sheltered from the "real world." The opposite is true. The whole "socialization" argument is just ridiculous. Let me temper this by saying I have known of some kids that were homeschooled that are socially awkward, but, guess what? I've known public schoolers that are socially awkward, too! When will a child EVER be in a situation again where they will be with 20-30 people exactly their age. My children spend time during the week with children much younger than themselves, with children their age, and with adults of all ages. The socialization argument cannot hold water. Period.

I am not anti-public school, but I am against making judgements on something one hasn't experienced himself and making unfounded assumptions. This would be a good time to mention that my children attended public school for the first five years. My children had some good experiences in public school and some bad ones, but we, personally, are MUCH better off homeschooling now.

VegesaurusRex

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Except there is a difference between us and North Korea... we are multicultural, with many sociatal influences... we also provide (whether directly or indirectly) access to information that is outside of our culture and society... Whereas, North Korea is not and does not.
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There is an analogy in there that says: "If a person focuses solely on one specific idealogy to the exclusion of everything else, then that is indoctrination, not education." If a person only teaches Christianity (or Judaism or Buddhism or Communism, etc) to the exclusion of all other religions, then that is indoctrination, not education. It sets the person who is being taught up to learn that "all else does not matter, because this is all you need to know". It fascinates me how people can claim to be Christian, yet not be willing to accept others' points of view. Technically, that's in direct opposition to Christ's teachings about loving others as He has loved you.

Again, you are deconstructing about 200 years of US history. The analogy to North Korea is about as inappropriate as one can get. Our society is nothing like theirs. And I for one thing that religion of democracy should be taught to the exclusion of all others.

sjebert

there is no right or wrong answer, it is what is best for the child

penrbrown

I guess you are not a history teacher. That is how they've done it in this country for most of its history, and in every other European country. American exceptionalism has been the rule for over 200 years. And if you think that the British, say, were any different, you should read Rudyard Kipling. I personally think it is a far better idea to understand your own culture before you try to understand someone elses. In fact, I will say you have to understand your own before you can understand another.

People in this thread seem to think that teaching a child primarily about their own culture and their own country will somehow make that child hateful and suspicious of other countries and cultures... but that's not how it works.

Teach a child respect and he will utilize it.

He never has to learn about the beauties of the Japanese culture to learn that all human life should be respected.
He never has to learn about the customs in a foreign country to learn that he has to respect the rules of whichever house he's in, even if he doesn't understand them.

Now, I don't believe children should miss out on learning about other cultures but I think there is a misguided idea that simply learning about these things will magically make a child tolerant.

It won't.

Not unless he's taught respect and tolerance at home.

So... teaching a child tolerance for other cultures ultimately isn't something school can teach. That's something only parents can teach.

I guess the bottom line is that education should stick to facts and parents should be the ones teaching morality, respect, tolerance and social graces.

ArtGeek22

From the point of view of a "certified, licensed school teacher," homeschooling can be suspicious. I have seen it done terribly - to the point where DHS gets involved - and I have seen it done perfectly.

It shouldn't really seem suspicious. In the state of Florida, if I am not mistaken, if you are a home schooler you are *required* to show some form of progress to show that your child isn't falling behind.

Many States are this way, if I am not mistaken.

Some states do. But here in Connecticut, the state statutes merely say that children are expected to be educated in various academic subjects, including Connecticut history. The responsibility, according to state law, falls on the parents to see this is accomplished. Even filing a notice of intent to home-school with the public schools is suggested, not mandated by the state education department, but that is not law. So home schoolers can fly solo if they like. This may make some people nervous, but what I saw firsthand through the various home-school groups we joined was a lot of diverse styles of conscientious home-schooling. And most things came out in the wash, as the old expression goes.

Same in Jersey.

Sure, there are some bad apples....like in all things.....but with good parenting....like in all things.... It works very well.

That's what I'm talking about. When a program is following standards, is staying in contact with educators, and conscientious parents who are willing to work with their kids, then I'm all for it. Just like lumping all home schools into a category, I refuse to allow anyone to lump education that takes place in a classroom into the same category of ineffectiveness. I gave very legitimate and good reasons when I responded, and I am not going to apologize for my opinion. To be labeled as "spewing educational mumbo jumbo clap trap" is downright rude.

Not asking you to apologize for your opinion. Just stating that in several states it is required for that homeschooler to show progression. I am with you for the not lumping into categories because it can be offensive to many people. That is all.

hillm12345

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

ETA: I was not trying to bash homeschooling, just pointing out the need for some standard of education

VegesaurusRex

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

I disagree. The last thing I want my kids to have is a typical education. They didn't have one and now they are reaching for the stars. I am delighted with how far off the grid we were. My kids are probably 5 years above their same age peers. And believe me, they are not geniuses.

hillm12345

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

I disagree. The last thing I want my kids to have is a typical education. They didn't have one and now they are reaching for the stars. I am delighted with how far off the grid we were. My kids are probably 5 years above their same age peers. And believe me, they are not geniuses.

Firstly, please see my edited comment.
Secondly, when I hear someone say "what's it do you what I teach my kid?" My automatic reaction is NOT to assume genius but to fear the worse.

Finally, obviously if your children are "off the grid" then I'm not talking about them when I mention the movie Idiocracy. Even if you haven't seen the movie, the title is pretty self explanatory.

macpatti

I'll take this one:

There is an analogy in there that says: "If a person focuses solely on one specific idealogy to the exclusion of everything else, then that is indoctrination, not education." If a person only teaches Christianity (or Judaism or Buddhism or Communism, etc) to the exclusion of all other religions, then that is indoctrination, not education. It sets the person who is being taught up to learn that "all else does not matter, because this is all you need to know". It fascinates me how people can claim to be Christian, yet not be willing to accept others' points of view. Technically, that's in direct opposition to Christ's teachings about loving others as He has loved you.

You make some valid points. Catholic Christianity, however, does not deny that those who do not share our “creed” can have valid insights. In fact, Catholicism claims that our faith (by “faith” I mean the framework or context for understanding reality and our place in it that is made up of the specific truth-claims we make) perfects/completes and harmonizes the truths that people can discover through the God-given faculty of reason. Consequently, we are open to truth wherever it may be found. These truths that others may see more clearly than we do may enable us to better understand our own faith. That does not mean, however, that we cannot be sure of our beliefs or that we can never take a stand on anything. Although I believe, for instance, that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the world, those who do not share these beliefs may have deep and meaningful insights into, let’s say, the natural laws by which this world operates (“science”) or insights into how to have interior peace even when devastating things happen to us (far eastern philosophies/religions). I would also not take these facts to mean that a parent has to teach his/her children about every religion or philosophical system in order to avoid an unhealthy “indoctrination.” Most children (and adults, for that matter) are not sufficiently developed in their intellectual abilities to adequately evaluate belief-systems. In these cases, learning the belief-system that is cherished by those who raise them is an important step to becoming a thoughtful and respectful human being. If you don’t first understand your own thinking or world-view it will be very difficult to adequately evaluate or dialog with others. Additionally, I don’t think a parent or a pastor has to teach other religions to their children/congregations. It is certainly justifiable for a parent to want to instill in his/her children the teachings of their belief-system (“indoctrination”). It is possible to do this in such a way, I think, that they become respectful human persons who do not immediately assume everyone else is wrong about everything since they don’t profess the same creed.

LadyKatieBug

Yes I do. I was in public school up until my 9th grade year struggled all through school. then my mom home schooled me my last 3 years of high school and I excelled very well. as far as the social bit the common myth people assume is that home schooled people are sheltered and no social interaction but my mom told the people who were concerned that I go to church youth group, go out with friends so I am social. I think homeschooling would be a great idea.

flobee76

To the OP: If your mom wants to homeschool your sister, she should. There are plenty of homeschooling groups in each state, she can even check for homeschooling conventions, HSLDA, etc. I know plenty of parents who have pulled their kids out of public or private school because the systems were failing their children and the parents couldn't fight for the kids any longer.

I am homeschooling our 8, 4.5, and 3 year old children. First of all, I am NOT a certified teacher. Nope... not at all. I can however, teach my kids. I have several friends who are certified educators, but they do not have a background in every subject that they are teaching.

**SHAMELESS PLUG**
My 2nd grader reads at a 6th grade reading level. She is on level for math. She knows history, timelines, geography, and has studied nature and science since she could get down and watch a bug. She can identify parts of speech, has wonderful penmanship, and loves to make up stories. We study art, composers, music, poetry, and Shakespeare. I'd like to think that she has a well-rounded education.

Oh... and she's a great swimmer! Yeah, we actually take her out of the house in public. Surprise surprise.

My other 2 kids are bright as well. They have completely different learning styles from one another and I get to help them ENJOY LEARNING in their own way. Our son is a math wiz, understands spacial concepts, time, knows his letters and sounds, shapes, colors, etc. He sits in on all his sister's lessons so he can even tell me about William Wilberforce.

We never have to fight about school. They get up in the morning and pull their own books out and want to do school. Weird. They enjoy learning. It's not a fight.

My point is: learning at home isn't what people seem to think it is. My husband and I have been called to teach our kids at home and we are SO glad we are. There is PLENTY of socialization, PLENTY of conflict resolution, and PLENTY of learning...

k8blujay2

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

Who are we kidding? Idiocracy already is a prophecy of things to come.... Regardless of whether people homeschool their kids or not.

There are plenty of ignorant idiots that come out of the public school system as well... Homeschoolers do not nor will they ever hold that corner market.

Marla64

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

ETA: I was not trying to bash homeschooling, just pointing out the need for some standard of education

Perhaps you weren't trying-- maybe you're just good at it naturally? Yeesh.

So what you're saying is if homeschoolers don't let the government dictate what our children learn, we would be producing the "dumbed down society" depicted in the movie? Wow-- :noway: Rather harsh-- especially considering that our nation's public school kids are already getting our clocks cleaned by other nations.....kinda the reason many of us home school.

Who is to say the government should be setting those standards? Who gave them the power to tell parents what their kids should learn? They're our kids.

lucky410

I have done both and to be honest, she is better off going to school. This is just due to the fact that she is socially awkward and has severe anxiety. I had the same issue when I was her age. The anxiety will eventually lessen even if it seems to her like it won't. My parents also got me heavily involved in theatre and dance, and that helped me get out of my shell. In the last couple years, I have been home schooled due to multiple medical issues. When my medical issues started I developed anxiety again. When my school felt that my health made me unsafe to attend school, I was home schooled. I found that being at home all of the time made my anxiety a lot worse than when I was at school. Maybe the school can have her attend partial days and build up while sending a tutor to the home for the other parts. However I have heard that there are schools that specialize in educating kids with severe anxiety. If the school does not accommodate her, then she probably should be home schooled. This is of course as long as she is extremely involved in activities with kids her age to avoid heightening her anxiety and social awkwardness.

VegesaurusRex

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

I disagree. The last thing I want my kids to have is a typical education. They didn't have one and now they are reaching for the stars. I am delighted with how far off the grid we were. My kids are probably 5 years above their same age peers. And believe me, they are not geniuses.

Firstly, please see my edited comment.
Secondly, when I hear someone say "what's it do you what I teach my kid?" My automatic reaction is NOT to assume genius but to fear the worse.

Finally, obviously if your children are "off the grid" then I'm not talking about them when I mention the movie Idiocracy. Even if you haven't seen the movie, the title is pretty self explanatory.

My children are off the grid because of their off the grid education, not because of any great intellectual gifts. As I said, they are smart but not geniuses. And I probably would say something similar to "What's it to you what I teach my children," but probably I would say it a little more politically correctly, but none the less it mirrors my feelings. I have my own ideas of what is important and what is not. Perhaps the most important thing about my kids' education, or any kid's education is that they be treated as an individual, not like a cog in a machine. When my kids were interested in something they studied it until they knew what they wanted to know about it. My daughter wanted to know about marine biology, for example, so we went to Cape Cod as a family, and brought a friend with us, a girl who had majored in Marine Biology and was getting her Ph.D. She spent a week with my daughter exploring every possible habitat along the shore. When she wanted to write a novel, she did. When my son decided he wanted to put together a graphic novel, he did. He is still woring on it. Being as he is in law school he has to allocate his time carefully.

Please understand that I see how you would react the way you did. It is probably more a reaction to how it was said than what was said. But the idea behind it, that the parents sould determine what the child is taught and not the state, is a sound idea, and I strongly believe it.

ArtGeek22

To the OP: If your mom wants to homeschool your sister, she should. There are plenty of homeschooling groups in each state, she can even check for homeschooling conventions, HSLDA, etc. I know plenty of parents who have pulled their kids out of public or private school because the systems were failing their children and the parents couldn't fight for the kids any longer.

I am homeschooling our 8, 4.5, and 3 year old children. First of all, I am NOT a certified teacher. Nope... not at all. I can however, teach my kids. I have several friends who are certified educators, but they do not have a background in every subject that they are teaching.

**SHAMELESS PLUG**
My 2nd grader reads at a 6th grade reading level. She is on level for math. She knows history, timelines, geography, and has studied nature and science since she could get down and watch a bug. She can identify parts of speech, has wonderful penmanship, and loves to make up stories. We study art, composers, music, poetry, and Shakespeare. I'd like to think that she has a well-rounded education.

Oh... and she's a great swimmer! Yeah, we actually take her out of the house in public. Surprise surprise.

My other 2 kids are bright as well. They have completely different learning styles from one another and I get to help them ENJOY LEARNING in their own way. Our son is a math wiz, understands spacial concepts, time, knows his letters and sounds, shapes, colors, etc. He sits in on all his sister's lessons so he can even tell me about William Wilberforce.

We never have to fight about school. They get up in the morning and pull their own books out and want to do school. Weird. They enjoy learning. It's not a fight.

My point is: learning at home isn't what people seem to think it is. My husband and I have been called to teach our kids at home and we are SO glad we are. There is PLENTY of socialization, PLENTY of conflict resolution, and PLENTY of learning...

^^ Exactly! You stated this very well.

Marla64

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

I disagree. The last thing I want my kids to have is a typical education. They didn't have one and now they are reaching for the stars. I am delighted with how far off the grid we were. My kids are probably 5 years above their same age peers. And believe me, they are not geniuses.

Firstly, please see my edited comment.
Secondly, when I hear someone say "what's it do you what I teach my kid?" My automatic reaction is NOT to assume genius but to fear the worse.

Finally, obviously if your children are "off the grid" then I'm not talking about them when I mention the movie Idiocracy. Even if you haven't seen the movie, the title is pretty self explanatory.

My children are off the grid because of their off the grid education, not because of any great intellectual gifts. As I said, they are smart but not geniuses. And I probably would say something similar to "What's it to you what I teach my children," but probably I would say it a little more politically correctly, but none the less it mirrors my feelings. I have my own ideas of what is important and what is not. Perhaps the most important thing about my kids' education, or any kid's education is that they be treated as an individual, not like a cog in a machine. When my kids were interested in something they studied it until they knew what they wanted to know about it. My daughter wanted to know about marine biology, for example, so we went to Cape Cod as a family, and brought a friend with us, a girl who had majored in Marine Biology and was getting her Ph.D. She spent a week with my daughter exploring every possible habitat along the shore. When she wanted to write a novel, she did. When my son decided he wanted to put together a graphic novel, he did. He is still woring on it. Being as he is in law school he has to allocate his time carefully.

Please understand that I see how you would react the way you did. It is probably more a reaction to how it was said than what was said. But the idea behind it, that the parents sould determine what the child is taught and not the state, is a sound idea, and I strongly believe it.

Rex-- :flowerforyou: God bless you-- I don't have a politically correct bone in my body. No matter how it was stated, my point I believe was clear.....it is not for the state to decide what my children learn. It is for me to decide.

And you know what? If I sent my kids to school, my kindergarten students would have been taught "whole language" approach to reading. Great-- let's put stickers on everything-- "PIANO" "DOOR" "DESK" and hope little Johnny can remember the word when he sees it, instead of learning phonics. You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 'education' system has tried to reinvent the wheel.

Every kid of mine has learned phonics and has read by age 5-- most of them by age 4. Idiocracy? Uh-- no.

What the state says is best isn't necessarily so. That's my job as a parent to decide.

The assumption that I'm turning out dopes because I don't march to the beat of the state's education department's drum is ludicrous, if not a wee bit offensive and insulting. We do it rather like you have said-- "classic" education-- or, old school, anyway. "Reading, writing, 'rithmetic..... Science, health, history, New Jersey history..... Rather sound, if I do say so myself.

we've done the public high school because I can't provide chem labs or biology experiments without spending money that I don't have-- I can't provide marching bands, choirs, basketball teams, football camps. Here in New Jersey, it isn't yet permitted for home schoolers to participate in school extracurriculars.

If things change one day, I still may want to send them.... There is something to be said for them to experience what's out there while still living at home, and under our guidance....we'll see.

VegesaurusRex

Marla, I think Hillm and others are very well intentioned, but I don't think they have come across too many people like us, dare I say libertarians, before. I was in the Service during Vietnam, and I learned that, believe it or not, the government lies, and the government cannot be trusted. I rarely trust them. I rarely believe them. And even when the government has the best of motives, they usually manage to screw it up. As Milton Friedman once said, "If you put the government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there would be a shortage of sand."

I am sure Hillm and the other teachers are well intentioned, but they just have no clue where we are coming from.

Marla64

Marla, I think Hillm and others are very well intentioned, but I don't think they have come across too many people like us, dare I say libertarians, before. I was in the Service during Vietnam, and I learned that, believe it or not, the government lies, and the government cannot be trusted. I rarely trust them. I rarely believe them. And even when the government has the best of motives, they usually manage to screw it up. As Milton Friedman once said, "If you put the government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there would be a shortage of sand."

I am sure Hillm and the other teachers are well intentioned, but they just have no clue where we are coming from.

ha-- I love the quote.

My husband and I are the same. It isn't to imply we're paranoid. I don't think they're out to get me or harm my children. I just don't think they know their *kitten* from their elbow about most things, especially regarding MY children.

KimmyEB

The last cluster of posts prove why religion is excluded from public education.

Do what you want homeschooling, though.

Religion isn't excluded from public education. Schools often learn about world religions. They're just not allowed to ENDORSE any religion, or say that one is better. Religion is an important part of a multicultural education.

Let me be more specific: No one religion is taught as being "right" and others aren't taught as being "wrong." At least, that's how it's *supposed* to be.

Also, I'd just like to say in my personal experience, I was never taught world religions in public school. I learned about them in college voluntarily, but it wasn't a requirement there, either. Multicultural education wasn't taught, either, in any of the various public schools I attended. It's different everywhere.