Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

_VoV

I'd just like to point out that machines used in agriculture kills thousands of animals a year. I know a lot of people are vegan because they don't want to harm animals, but the truth is that unless you grow all of your food yourself and harvest it in a way that doesn't kill anything (hand picking it, basically), you're harming animals.

Most vegans know it's impossible to NEVER harm any animals, ever. We just try to inflict the LEAST amount of harm and suffering that we can. That's all.

Excellent point.

No, it's not an excellent point at all. What you're basically saying if someone is trying to do something they feel is good, but can't do it absolutely 100% completely perfectly according to YOUR standards, they shouldn't do it at all. What kind of argument is that?

I was agreeing with this: "Most vegans know it's impossible to NEVER harm any animals, ever. We just try to inflict the LEAST amount of harm and suffering that we can. That's all."

There is no perfection in this world.

bcattoes

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

toysbigkid

bumping............vegetarian for no other reason than I like it better this way, no right, no wrong, just because!!!!!

carld256

I'd just like to point out that machines used in agriculture kills thousands of animals a year. I know a lot of people are vegan because they don't want to harm animals, but the truth is that unless you grow all of your food yourself and harvest it in a way that doesn't kill anything (hand picking it, basically), you're harming animals.

Most vegans know it's impossible to NEVER harm any animals, ever. We just try to inflict the LEAST amount of harm and suffering that we can. That's all.

Excellent point.

No, it's not an excellent point at all. What you're basically saying if someone is trying to do something they feel is good, but can't do it absolutely 100% completely perfectly according to YOUR standards, they shouldn't do it at all. What kind of argument is that?

I was agreeing with this: "Most vegans know it's impossible to NEVER harm any animals, ever. We just try to inflict the LEAST amount of harm and suffering that we can. That's all."

There is no perfection in this world.

Sorry, got my posts mixed up. I do apologize. The argument being made was one that I find really annoying, and I jumped the gun without reading closely, sorry again.

VegesaurusRex

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Aleciajones

One of my dogs is part wolf and the special high protein foods are expensive for the amount she eats. You are very very right though, nature is efficient...circle of life and all that, the left over bits aren't truly wasted one way or another.

andreacord

I have no argument on this, I will say that I'm not a huge fan of meat because of personal tastes and largely stick to seafood based proteins and dairy proteins .. But I'd probably just go vegetarian if I wasn't soy intolerant because I just don't like meat.

Aleciajones

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

Faintgreeneyes

Not eating meat can either be a personal choice or a medical choice, just like eating meat can be either a personal or medically advised choice.

The issue really- is that no one wants to concede the point. Everyone wants to be "right" instead of just accepting that fact that, some people like to eat meat, and some people do not.

Here is a thought- learn to respect each others decisions, and leave the debate at that. Quite honestly having a debate over meat eating vs Vegan/Vegetarian is like having an argument about religion and/or politics.... you just get a lot of people angrily shouting at each other, citing references and sources that suit their needs, with no one really listening to anyone but themselves, and no way that you are going to sway someone to believe what you believe, see, feel, etc.

Respect each other, agree to disagree, and move the *kitten* on. Seriously, more important things in the world than what we are putting in our respective mouths on a daily basis.

marieautumn

i like meat because, hello Tofu < Bacon & Steak. plus its got a lot of protein. I think as long as you are eating grassfed or lean cuts of meat, its healthy. at least in my opinion.

bcattoes

Hunters (atleast the ones I associate with, there are of course terrible ones) will use all of the animal. Organs go to the dogs, hide they tan themselves or give to someone who can, bones make broth and can then also go to dogs. It's usually a quick death after the animal had a fairly good life, compared to a factory style farm situation.

I don't believe this is the norm. I think most hunters gut the kills, then take it to the local processing station. And many times the kills are not quick. In fact, sometimes the shot is off and the animal gets away to die slowly in the woods and make a dinner for the scavengers. Especailly if it's bow hunting.

BrokenButterfly

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

I believe that hunting your own food is far more natural and environmentally friendly than shacking hundreds of animals up together and making them live rather short, miserable lives. But to be honest, I can't really have an opinion here because I do eat the meat that is provided in supermarkets.

bcattoes

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Now that is a ridiculous reply.

doorki

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

I would like to see your sources on the whole "all great serial killers were hunters" claim.

BrokenButterfly

Not eating meat can either be a personal choice or a medical choice, just like eating meat can be either a personal or medically advised choice.

The issue really- is that no one wants to concede the point. Everyone wants to be "right" instead of just accepting that fact that, some people like to eat meat, and some people do not.

Here is a thought- learn to respect each others decisions, and leave the debate at that. Quite honestly having a debate over meat eating vs Vegan/Vegetarian is like having an argument about religion and/or politics.... you just get a lot of people angrily shouting at each other, citing references and sources that suit their needs, with no one really listening to anyone but themselves, and no way that you are going to sway someone to believe what you believe, see, feel, etc.

Respect each other, agree to disagree, and move the *kitten* on. Seriously, more important things in the world than what we are putting in our respective mouths on a daily basis.

Luckily this topic has remained just that! I wanted to discuss whether we, as a species, actually need to eat meat anymore.

lporter229

1. Would you be willing to eat animals that are not raised for slaughter, such as wild caught seafood and/or wild caught game? Why or why not?

2. Do you use other animal products such as leather goods, wool, etc? Why or why not?

Both question have the same answer. No, it's not necessary to kill or farm animals to meet human needs. Also, yes, it's impossible to live in a modern society and not use animal products, since they're in so many things. But people can choose to reduce the exploitation of animals by the choices they make.

Thanks to you and others for taking the time to answer my questions. I have a great deal of respect for people who are willing to sacrifice convenience in support of their convictions. I think that many people often arbitrarily draw the line regarding what they consider to be acceptable uses of animal products based on convenience. I also believe that this is what fuels so many debates such as this one.

tsh0ck

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Are you looking at this through anti-hunting glasses? Don't mean that as an attack. But there are bad hunters. Most are not. After all, why would they not work to preserve what they enjoy? And aside from attitude, where do you suppose the money used to make preserves, land management, etc., comes from? It comes from wildlife and waterfowl groups and from license fees.

Faintgreeneyes

I don't believe this is the norm. I think most hunters gut the kills, then take it to the local processing station. And many times the kills are not quick. In fact, sometimes the shot is off and the animal gets away to die slowly in the woods and make a dinner for the scavengers. Especailly if it's bow hunting.

Hunters gut there kills after the animal is already dead- which you need to do in order to preserve the meat. Any good hunter takes everything out with him and uses it, or gives it to those that can. Also- any DECENT and respectable hunter will go for a clean kill and not let the animal die slowly- which means going after the animal and making sure that it doesn't suffer.

Also for the fact of bow hunting- unless you hit the deer in the *kitten*- if that broad head hits any major organ, that animal is not going to be dying slowly anywhere.

Aleciajones

Hunters (atleast the ones I associate with, there are of course terrible ones) will use all of the animal. Organs go to the dogs, hide they tan themselves or give to someone who can, bones make broth and can then also go to dogs. It's usually a quick death after the animal had a fairly good life, compared to a factory style farm situation.

I don't believe this is the norm. I think most hunters gut the kills, then take it to the local processing station. And many times the kills are not quick. In fact, sometimes the shot is off and the animal gets away to die slowly in the woods and make a dinner for the scavengers. Especailly if it's bow hunting.

Then it's a terrible shame the person who taught them to hunt didn't teach them ethics. It is unfortunate that an animal will get away but to just let it go and make no effort to put it out of its misery is a disgrace. I've heard the horror stories, young adults thrill killing and it gives all hunters a bad name but the only experience I've had with it was a guy brought over by a mutual friend who tried to brag about his guns 'let it slip' that he left a deer laying in the woods. He was told to leave. Taking a life is something that should never be treated lightly.

Bridget28152723

I do crave meat and I love the smell of BBq's but I quit eating meat , except fish , a few months ago. It can be tasty but now when I smell it it makes me sick. I have to buy and cook it for my family. I think it is healthier to refrain from as much meat as possible , as well as processed and dairy ( toxins). I take vitamins and do my best, but who cares? I dont care if someone does eat meat ,I did . When you see someone that has great skin, (glowing) nice complexion, fit, no stomach problems, and happy ask them what they eat ....it isnt fast food and fake burgers...Check out women on youtube that eat raw food they look better than 30-40 yr.olds and they are 60-70! Thats the healthiest and top of the line eating, IMO of course