Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

tsh0ck

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Yay! Hyperbole is back!

VegesaurusRex

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

VegesaurusRex

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Yay! Hyperbole is back!

More like truth is inserted into the discussion.

tsh0ck

Hunters (atleast the ones I associate with, there are of course terrible ones) will use all of the animal. Organs go to the dogs, hide they tan themselves or give to someone who can, bones make broth and can then also go to dogs. It's usually a quick death after the animal had a fairly good life, compared to a factory style farm situation.

I don't believe this is the norm. I think most hunters gut the kills, then take it to the local processing station. And many times the kills are not quick. In fact, sometimes the shot is off and the animal gets away to die slowly in the woods and make a dinner for the scavengers. Especailly if it's bow hunting.

See, this tells me you already have a bent against hunting. Hunters spend much time working on their skills to make the kill as quick as possible. One, because it is the right way ti do it. But also, the longer it takes, the more adrenaline is pumped through the animal - which really effects the way the meat tastes.

Also, I process my own animal. Always have. And there is a game processor close by, and he does very good work. Also a respectful person. Some use a processor because they don't have the time or skills to do it themselves - which is fine.

bcattoes

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Are you looking at this through anti-hunting glasses? Don't mean that as an attack. But there are bad hunters. Most are not. After all, why would they not work to preserve what they enjoy? And aside from attitude, where do you suppose the money used to make preserves, land management, etc., comes from? It comes from wildlife and waterfowl groups and from license fees.

No, I am absolutely not anti-hunting. I just think that in general hunters are no more environmentally friendly than the next guy, and that means that most are not environmentally friendly. Yes, license fees pay for wildlife management areas. But do you honestly believe that if the license was not required for hunting these same hunters would voluntarily donate that money?

Rhea30

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

If you are wanting to prove a case of morals that way, here is some news for you: Hitler was a vegetarian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_vegetarianism

doorki

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Yay! Hyperbole is back!

More like truth is inserted into the discussion.

Speaking of truth, still waiting for your sources on your serial killer claim.

Faintgreeneyes

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Just because you *personally* have not met a hunter that wasn't drunk or drinking does not mean that the whole lot of people that do hunt are raging alcoholics with fire arms.

Also- you are making it out like animals have rational thoughts and think and feel things like humans- chalk that up to Disney giving us cartoons animals with voices- but a well placed shot on an animal would cause it to feel no pain.

Aleciajones

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.


But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Wow perspective is an amazing thing. I guess hunters here are a bit brighter, you do not want to get caught with a gun while drinking! Getting caught by cops is bad enough, if a game warden finds you there goes your license.
A good hunter will drop a deer. No running involved and when the deer hear the bang they run none of them stick around to watch. I'm certain they realize one of the herd is gone but it's not as if they're forced to sit and watch their buddy be gutted.

tsh0ck

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Then you simply have had a few bad experiences. Lesson No. 1 with hunting? Guns and beer don't mix.

VegesaurusRex

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Just because you *personally* have not met a hunter that wasn't drunk or drinking does not mean that the whole lot of people that do hunt are raging alcoholics with fire arms.

Also- you are making it out like animals have rational thoughts and think and feel things like humans- chalk that up to Disney giving us cartoons animals with voices- but a well placed shot on an animal would cause it to feel no pain.

You could say that about humans too. In fact the Boston Strangler did. So did other hunter who followed their "sport" to its logical conclusion.

BrokenButterfly

I feel we've rather gone off-topic a little. Although it's interesting to see that there are people who hunt their own meat.

VegesaurusRex

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.


But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Wow perspective is an amazing thing. I guess hunters here are a bit brighter, you do not want to get caught with a gun while drinking! Getting caught by cops is bad enough, if a game warden finds you there goes your license.
A good hunter will drop a deer. No running involved and when the deer hear the bang they run none of them stick around to watch. I'm certain they realize one of the herd is gone but it's not as if they're forced to sit and watch their buddy be gutted.

Look. savagry is savagry. Killing for fun is savagry. Period. End of story.

Aleciajones

The only LOGICAL conclusion to hunting is dinner.
Killing for fun is savage...that's why only serial killers and $@*#%! Hunters do it. Otherwise it's done for food. End of story.

tsh0ck

I've gotta go kill some of my grass. Or at least wound it. There are some weeds out there I am definitely going to murder. But will check back later.

BrokenButterfly

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.


But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Wow perspective is an amazing thing. I guess hunters here are a bit brighter, you do not want to get caught with a gun while drinking! Getting caught by cops is bad enough, if a game warden finds you there goes your license.
A good hunter will drop a deer. No running involved and when the deer hear the bang they run none of them stick around to watch. I'm certain they realize one of the herd is gone but it's not as if they're forced to sit and watch their buddy be gutted.

Look. savagry is savagry. Killing for fun is savagry. Period. End of story.

I also find myself wondering whether any vegans have insect phobias. And therefore stomp on a spider when it runs across the room.

bcattoes

Hunters (atleast the ones I associate with, there are of course terrible ones) will use all of the animal. Organs go to the dogs, hide they tan themselves or give to someone who can, bones make broth and can then also go to dogs. It's usually a quick death after the animal had a fairly good life, compared to a factory style farm situation.

I don't believe this is the norm. I think most hunters gut the kills, then take it to the local processing station. And many times the kills are not quick. In fact, sometimes the shot is off and the animal gets away to die slowly in the woods and make a dinner for the scavengers. Especailly if it's bow hunting.

See, this tells me you already have a bent against hunting. Hunters spend much time working on their skills to make the kill as quick as possible. One, because it is the right way ti do it. But also, the longer it takes, the more adrenaline is pumped through the animal - which really effects the way the meat tastes.

Also, I process my own animal. Always have. And there is a game processor close by, and he does very good work. Also a respectful person. Some use a processor because they don't have the time or skills to do it themselves - which is fine.

Again, I'm not anti-hunting, I'm realistic. And I don't think putting hunters on some type of pedestal makes the argument for or against hunting or meat eating. What you personally do, doesn't really make the argument for what "most" hunters do either. Most hunters I know don't process their own kills. And I don't see why that would be considered bad. If they did, that would just be a few more people unemployed after all. And yes, I agree that all strive for the quick kill and practice to get it. No one wants their prize to get away or to have their buddie rag on them about how long it took to bring the animal down.

VegesaurusRex

The only LOGICAL conclusion to hunting is dinner.

I often wondered what people like you would think and do if the earth were actually invaded by aliens who hunted and ate humans. Would your arguments be the same? If not why would they be different. Explain why us hunting animals is good but creatures who are more powerful than us eating us is bad. I'd really like to hear this.

Faintgreeneyes

Add to that the fact that hunters, in general, put more money and time into environmental efforts than any other group, and it seems to me that this is a pretty important thing in society.

Really? Where did you get that fact, if it is a fact? I live a rural area where just about all the men and a good percentage of the women hunt. Very few of them are environmentally friendly.

But many do donate their kills to the local hunter's food bank, which processes kills and donates the meat to local homeless shelters.

Ridiculous. Vegans just by virtue of who they are do far more than any hunter for the environment. Hunting is barbaric. Albert DeSalvio Jeffery Dommers, all the great serial killers started as hunters and animal torturers. Hunting is the antithesis of civilization.

Hunting is the same as animal torture how? I've never met a hunter who didn't put the animal down as quickly as possible.

And I never met a hunter who wasn't drunk or drinking. I grew up in a family of hunters. I know exactly how they behave.

And yes, hunting is torture. Being shot isnot a pleasure. Running for your life is not fun. Seeing members of your family die is not pleasurable.

Just because you *personally* have not met a hunter that wasn't drunk or drinking does not mean that the whole lot of people that do hunt are raging alcoholics with fire arms.

Also- you are making it out like animals have rational thoughts and think and feel things like humans- chalk that up to Disney giving us cartoons animals with voices- but a well placed shot on an animal would cause it to feel no pain.

You could say that about humans too. In fact the Boston Strangler did. So did other hunter who followed their "sport" to its logical conclusion.

again you are equating people who hunt = serial killers. While there may have been some people who are serial killers that liked to hunt, just because one HUNTS does not make them a serial killer with no feelings.

Serial killers are people who have no sense of right or wrong, who do not care if they are hurting others. Hunters, people who respect the sport and respect animals do not go out to make animals suffer, to torture them and scare them.

Stop perpetuating the misconceptions that people who hunt are these barbaric soulless people.

JeffseekingV

http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/829

One of the world's most celebrated vegetarians was Adolph Hitler. In "Hitler's Table Talk," a compendium of his conversations, he is recorded as having said:

"One may regret living at a period when it's impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there's one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian."

According to the website www.vegetariansareevil.com, the following mass murderers were vegetarian: Pol Pot, the notorious dictator of Cambodia; Charles Manson; and Ghenghis Khan. Additionally, William MacDonald, Australia's most famous serial killer, was said to be vegetarian.

Dutch vegan Volkert van der Graf was a notorious militant animal rights activist convicted in the assassination of Dutch journalist Pym Fortuyn.

Being vegatarian doesn't automatically put you into some higher than thou classifcation.