Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

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  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Paragraph 1: Tomatoes, Tomahtoes. You say delayed, I say denied. If a person dies waiting, what difference does it make?

    Paragraph 2.:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+body+builders&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NKTDT-yTLrDl6gGzqYTFAw&ved=0CHEQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=935

    Pararagraph 3: You are obviously ignorant of the fact that the meat and dairy industries are heavily susidized. If you actually had to pay the REAL cost of meat it would be about $80 per pound. Bytheway, ask me how I feel about paying for your bad habits - well, if you are in the US I would be. Some other poor vegetartian in the UK is subsidizing you. Take away these subsidies and you will then find out what the cheaper option is. God, I hate government.

    Paragraph 4. An *kitten* is someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't think I am the one here who qualifies.

    :huh: Nobody is subsidising me. I don't have health insurance and I've paid into the NHS, as has my family, for many many years. Eating is not a bad habit, btw.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222273207
    Spinach - to obtain 200g at 28g per kg / £5.77 per kg means I would have to spend £41.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222756078
    Chicken - to obtain 200g at 307g per kg / £8.70 per kg means I would have to spend £5.66

    Ever so slight rise in expenses to get my protein from veg.

    You know what is scary? That you might actually believe what you are saying.

    First of all when did Spinach become the only vegetable? Have you ever eaten beans? Did you know beans have a huge amount of protein in them. If you truly want to know how to eat a high protein vegetarian diet on the cheap :

    http://www.grow-cook-eat-beans.com/healthy_eating.html

    Also, pay attention to what it says about too much protein.

    Bahaha, here we go. Too much protein will make you ill!

    I chose spinach because it's often touted as one of the best sources of protein in a vegan diet.

    Okay, fine beans:
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224029307
    19g per 1kg, cost for 200g £78

    Cannellini Beans
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224141897
    71g per 1kg, cost for 200g £8.28


    First, you should know that I am not willing to give up a kidney to save you when your own kidney fails after eating 200 grams of protein per day.

    Second, what do Navy Pea beans cost in the UK. If they cost 78 pounds for 200 grams ( probably about a hundred beans) I would pack up and move to Australia.
  • susannamarie
    susannamarie Posts: 2,148 Member
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    Second, what do Navy Pea beans cost in the UK. If they cost 78 pounds for 200 grams ( probably about a hundred beans) I would pack up and move to Australia.

    He means enough beans to get 200g protein.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Options
    Paragraph 1: Tomatoes, Tomahtoes. You say delayed, I say denied. If a person dies waiting, what difference does it make?

    Paragraph 2.:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+body+builders&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NKTDT-yTLrDl6gGzqYTFAw&ved=0CHEQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=935

    Pararagraph 3: You are obviously ignorant of the fact that the meat and dairy industries are heavily susidized. If you actually had to pay the REAL cost of meat it would be about $80 per pound. Bytheway, ask me how I feel about paying for your bad habits - well, if you are in the US I would be. Some other poor vegetartian in the UK is subsidizing you. Take away these subsidies and you will then find out what the cheaper option is. God, I hate government.

    Paragraph 4. An *kitten* is someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't think I am the one here who qualifies.

    :huh: Nobody is subsidising me. I don't have health insurance and I've paid into the NHS, as has my family, for many many years. Eating is not a bad habit, btw.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222273207
    Spinach - to obtain 200g at 28g per kg / £5.77 per kg means I would have to spend £41.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222756078
    Chicken - to obtain 200g at 307g per kg / £8.70 per kg means I would have to spend £5.66

    Ever so slight rise in expenses to get my protein from veg.

    You know what is scary? That you might actually believe what you are saying.

    First of all when did Spinach become the only vegetable? Have you ever eaten beans? Did you know beans have a huge amount of protein in them. If you truly want to know how to eat a high protein vegetarian diet on the cheap :

    http://www.grow-cook-eat-beans.com/healthy_eating.html

    Also, pay attention to what it says about too much protein.

    Bahaha, here we go. Too much protein will make you ill!

    I chose spinach because it's often touted as one of the best sources of protein in a vegan diet.

    Okay, fine beans:
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224029307
    19g per 1kg, cost for 200g £78

    Cannellini Beans
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224141897
    71g per 1kg, cost for 200g £8.28


    First, you should know that I am not willing to give up a kidney to save you when your own kidney fails after eating 200 grams of protein per day.

    Second, what do Navy Pea beans cost in the UK. If they cost 78 pounds for 200 grams ( probably about a hundred beans) I would pack up and move to Australia.

    200g of protein. I don't know if you were being obtuse or misunderstood, so that's just a clarification, either way.

    There is no history of kidney problems in my family. Protein can't cause them, but can aggrevate existing conditions, so don't worry. Your kidneys are safe.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
    Options
    Paragraph 1: Tomatoes, Tomahtoes. You say delayed, I say denied. If a person dies waiting, what difference does it make?

    Paragraph 2.:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+body+builders&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NKTDT-yTLrDl6gGzqYTFAw&ved=0CHEQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=935

    Pararagraph 3: You are obviously ignorant of the fact that the meat and dairy industries are heavily susidized. If you actually had to pay the REAL cost of meat it would be about $80 per pound. Bytheway, ask me how I feel about paying for your bad habits - well, if you are in the US I would be. Some other poor vegetartian in the UK is subsidizing you. Take away these subsidies and you will then find out what the cheaper option is. God, I hate government.

    Paragraph 4. An *kitten* is someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't think I am the one here who qualifies.

    :huh: Nobody is subsidising me. I don't have health insurance and I've paid into the NHS, as has my family, for many many years. Eating is not a bad habit, btw.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222273207
    Spinach - to obtain 200g at 28g per kg / £5.77 per kg means I would have to spend £41.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222756078
    Chicken - to obtain 200g at 307g per kg / £8.70 per kg means I would have to spend £5.66

    Ever so slight rise in expenses to get my protein from veg.

    You know what is scary? That you might actually believe what you are saying.

    First of all when did Spinach become the only vegetable? Have you ever eaten beans? Did you know beans have a huge amount of protein in them. If you truly want to know how to eat a high protein vegetarian diet on the cheap :

    http://www.grow-cook-eat-beans.com/healthy_eating.html

    Also, pay attention to what it says about too much protein.

    Bahaha, here we go. Too much protein will make you ill!

    I chose spinach because it's often touted as one of the best sources of protein in a vegan diet.

    Okay, fine beans:
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224029307
    19g per 1kg, cost for 200g £78

    Cannellini Beans
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224141897
    71g per 1kg, cost for 200g £8.28


    First, you should know that I am not willing to give up a kidney to save you when your own kidney fails after eating 200 grams of protein per day.

    Second, what do Navy Pea beans cost in the UK. If they cost 78 pounds for 200 grams ( probably about a hundred beans) I would pack up and move to Australia.

    200g of protein. I don't know if you were being obtuse or misunderstood, so that's just a clarification, either way.

    There is no history of kidney problems in my family. Protein can't cause them, but can aggrevate existing conditions, so don't worry. Your kidneys are safe.

    So what is the cost of Navy Pea Beans in the UK, enough to get 200 g of protein?
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    So what is the cost of Navy Pea Beans in the UK, enough to get 200 g of protein?

    I have no idea, since none of the supermarkets I know of stock them.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    Options
    Paragraph 1: Tomatoes, Tomahtoes. You say delayed, I say denied. If a person dies waiting, what difference does it make?

    Paragraph 2.:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+body+builders&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NKTDT-yTLrDl6gGzqYTFAw&ved=0CHEQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=935

    Pararagraph 3: You are obviously ignorant of the fact that the meat and dairy industries are heavily susidized. If you actually had to pay the REAL cost of meat it would be about $80 per pound. Bytheway, ask me how I feel about paying for your bad habits - well, if you are in the US I would be. Some other poor vegetartian in the UK is subsidizing you. Take away these subsidies and you will then find out what the cheaper option is. God, I hate government.

    Paragraph 4. An *kitten* is someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't think I am the one here who qualifies.
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ronnie+coleman&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=OqzDT--SLcmJ8gOJ6cjwCg&biw=1920&bih=990&sei=PKzDT9PeFs7Z8QOetoSECw

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=arnold+schwarzenegger&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=EKzDT6GsLcX58QPs2fTlCg&biw=1920&bih=990&sei=EqzDT8v4O9C08QPzsYXNCg

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jay+cutler&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=XazDT9fxMMfi8QOP4PXzCg&biw=1920&bih=990&sei=X6zDT9_RCseO8gPq8PnkCg

    :huh: Nobody is subsidising me. I don't have health insurance and I've paid into the NHS, as has my family, for many many years. Eating is not a bad habit, btw.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222273207
    Spinach - to obtain 200g at 28g per kg / £5.77 per kg means I would have to spend £41.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222756078
    Chicken - to obtain 200g at 307g per kg / £8.70 per kg means I would have to spend £5.66

    Ever so slight rise in expenses to get my protein from veg.

    It's interesting that you would reference a relatively expensive, low calorie vegetable like spinach for your comparison. I just made a huge pot of chickpeas ($2/lb dry). I also made soymilk (3 oz of soybeans costs 40 cents and makes a quart). Later, I will make some okara burgers, made in part from the soy pulp from the soymilk production--these are omnivore-approved by the way.

    Many basic vegetarian foods are intrinsically inexpensive, tasty and good for you. Spinach is on today's menu today as a splurge. It is organic and cost me $4.00 for a bunch which will probably serve two, sauteed with garlic in a bit of olive oil.

    I was trying to compare the nutritional values more than anything, and have posted some more comparisons above. Spinach is the highest-protein veg I could think of that would be relatively commonly available here. Food is a lot more expensive here in the UK from what I gather, overall. I have no problem with vegetables and eat plenty most days, as well as a lot of fruits and nuts in phases. My point is that to reach my calorie and protein requirements would cost me far too much, and require a huge amount more food, in terms of mass.

    "In a 2009 joint position paper on nutrition and athletic performance, the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), the American Dietetic Association (ADA) and the Dietitians of Canada suggested that vegetarian athletes need 1.3 to 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, which translates to 0.6 to 0.8 grams per pound." [From Vegan for Life by Jack Norris, RD and Virginia Messina, MPH, RD].

    So, yes, I do agree it is difficult to get that much protein in a calorie-restricted way. But tofu, tempeh, seitan, and soymilk are good concentrated sources. Many of my strength-training vegan friends also use protein powders, but I prefer chewing rather than drinking my food, so I'm a hold-out on that stuff.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    Options
    Paragraph 1: Tomatoes, Tomahtoes. You say delayed, I say denied. If a person dies waiting, what difference does it make?

    Paragraph 2.:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+body+builders&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=NKTDT-yTLrDl6gGzqYTFAw&ved=0CHEQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=935

    Pararagraph 3: You are obviously ignorant of the fact that the meat and dairy industries are heavily susidized. If you actually had to pay the REAL cost of meat it would be about $80 per pound. Bytheway, ask me how I feel about paying for your bad habits - well, if you are in the US I would be. Some other poor vegetartian in the UK is subsidizing you. Take away these subsidies and you will then find out what the cheaper option is. God, I hate government.

    Paragraph 4. An *kitten* is someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. I don't think I am the one here who qualifies.

    :huh: Nobody is subsidising me. I don't have health insurance and I've paid into the NHS, as has my family, for many many years. Eating is not a bad habit, btw.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222273207
    Spinach - to obtain 200g at 28g per kg / £5.77 per kg means I would have to spend £41.

    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338222756078
    Chicken - to obtain 200g at 307g per kg / £8.70 per kg means I would have to spend £5.66

    Ever so slight rise in expenses to get my protein from veg.

    You know what is scary? That you might actually believe what you are saying.

    First of all when did Spinach become the only vegetable? Have you ever eaten beans? Did you know beans have a huge amount of protein in them. If you truly want to know how to eat a high protein vegetarian diet on the cheap :

    http://www.grow-cook-eat-beans.com/healthy_eating.html

    Also, pay attention to what it says about too much protein.

    Bahaha, here we go. Too much protein will make you ill!

    I chose spinach because it's often touted as one of the best sources of protein in a vegan diet.

    Okay, fine beans:
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224029307
    19g per 1kg, cost for 200g £78

    Cannellini Beans
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338224141897
    71g per 1kg, cost for 200g £8.28


    First, you should know that I am not willing to give up a kidney to save you when your own kidney fails after eating 200 grams of protein per day.

    Second, what do Navy Pea beans cost in the UK. If they cost 78 pounds for 200 grams ( probably about a hundred beans) I would pack up and move to Australia.

    200g of protein. I don't know if you were being obtuse or misunderstood, so that's just a clarification, either way.

    There is no history of kidney problems in my family. Protein can't cause them, but can aggrevate existing conditions, so don't worry. Your kidneys are safe.

    So what is the cost of Navy Pea Beans in the UK, enough to get 200 g of protein?

    Navy pea beans are those used in 'baked beans' here in the USA. Isn't that a popular food on toast in the UK?
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Options
    So, yes, I do agree it is difficult to get that much protein in a calorie-restricted way. But tofu, tempeh, seitan, and soymilk are good concentrated sources. Many of my strength-training vegan friends also use protein powders, but I prefer chewing rather than drinking my food, so I'm a hold-out on that stuff.

    Ahhh...refreshing. Reasonable discussion.

    I already use a protein shake most days. And personally, I follow an even higher recommendation of a about 1.2g per lb of bodyweight, so it really is very difficult. I'm glad you can appreciate that. I won't touch soy products because of the potential hormonal risks that have yet to be proven or disproven either way.

    Edit: Baked beans generally come tinned and loaded with sodium. I have no idea what their un-baked name would be here.
    Edit Edit: googled and found they're known as Haricot Beans.
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338225806693
    57g per kg, cost for 200g of protein £10.31
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
    Options
    So what is the cost of Navy Pea Beans in the UK, enough to get 200 g of protein?

    I have no idea, since none of the supermarkets I know of stock them.

    Incredible. Well, if you go to the website I posted the URL for you will find that in the US, a cup and a quarter of Navy Beans (18 grams of protein) costs $0.21, or put another way, 7 1/2 cups cost one Euro. (Sorry, I have lost track of what the pound is worth these days. Don't think ill of me - I can still figure change in Old Pence.)
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
    Options
    So, yes, I do agree it is difficult to get that much protein in a calorie-restricted way. But tofu, tempeh, seitan, and soymilk are good concentrated sources. Many of my strength-training vegan friends also use protein powders, but I prefer chewing rather than drinking my food, so I'm a hold-out on that stuff.

    Ahhh...refreshing. Reasonable discussion.

    I already use a protein shake most days. And personally, I follow an even higher recommendation of a about 1.2g per lb of bodyweight, so it really is very difficult. I'm glad you can appreciate that. I won't touch soy products because of the potential hormonal risks that have yet to be proven or disproven either way.

    Edit: Baked beans generally come tinned and loaded with sodium. I have no idea what their un-baked name would be here.
    Edit Edit: googled and found they're known as Haricot Beans.
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338225806693
    57g per kg, cost for 200g of protein £10.31

    What's the matter? You don't want man boobs? The Chinese eat tons of soy, and you know, I always wondered why those photos of Chairman Mao looked so top heavy.

    Seriously though folks, that's all a crock. I have a study financed by PETA which proves that soy is harmless. What's that you say? PETA's a bias source and you believe they have an agenda? Follow the money?

    Okay, so I guess you wouldn't believe these stories about soy if they were financed by the Meat and Dairy industry, right? Come on, be consistant. In fact the meat and dairy industry is behind the totally absurd things you have been told about soy. Soy is a brain food. Why do you think the Chinese are so good at math. Sounds like you could use a little soy. Read it and weep:

    http://zenhabits.net/soy/
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
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    if-you-could-reason-wth-religious-people-there-would-be-no-religious-people-house-500x375.jpg
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Options
    So, yes, I do agree it is difficult to get that much protein in a calorie-restricted way. But tofu, tempeh, seitan, and soymilk are good concentrated sources. Many of my strength-training vegan friends also use protein powders, but I prefer chewing rather than drinking my food, so I'm a hold-out on that stuff.

    Ahhh...refreshing. Reasonable discussion.

    I already use a protein shake most days. And personally, I follow an even higher recommendation of a about 1.2g per lb of bodyweight, so it really is very difficult. I'm glad you can appreciate that. I won't touch soy products because of the potential hormonal risks that have yet to be proven or disproven either way.

    Edit: Baked beans generally come tinned and loaded with sodium. I have no idea what their un-baked name would be here.
    Edit Edit: googled and found they're known as Haricot Beans.
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338225806693
    57g per kg, cost for 200g of protein £10.31

    What's the matter? You don't want man boobs? The Chinese eat tons of soy, and you know, I always wondered why those photos of Chairman Mao looked so top heavy.

    Seriously though folks, that's all a crock. I hae a study financed by PETA which proves that soy is harmless. What's that you say? PETA's a bias source and you believe they have an agenda? Follow the money?

    Okay, so I guess you wouldn't believe these stories about soy if they were financed by the Meat and Dairy industry, right? Come on, be consistant. In fact the meat and dairy industry is behind the totally absurd things you have been told about soy. Soy is a brain food. Why do you think the Chinese are so good at math. Sounds like you could use a little soy. Read it and weap:

    http://zenhabits.net/soy/

    So now I'm unintelligent for not wanting to consume soy? As someone that gained weight partly due to low testosterone in my late teens, I think my concern about not wanting to consume anything that can replicate the same effects as oestrogen are valid. The PETA is an organisation set up to combat 'cruelty' to animals so they're hardly unbiased.

    I think the Chinese are good at maths because their culture requires them to study hard and expect no reward for laziness.
  • KayKaayy66
    KayKaayy66 Posts: 4
    Options
    I would personally not feel comfortable with that at all. I've been vegan for about 15 years.. to me, if im gonna eat something that tastes like meat there is no point in not eating the real thing.
    But i've always hated the taste of meat, so i don't feel like im missing out on anything at all. (:
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
    Options
    So, yes, I do agree it is difficult to get that much protein in a calorie-restricted way. But tofu, tempeh, seitan, and soymilk are good concentrated sources. Many of my strength-training vegan friends also use protein powders, but I prefer chewing rather than drinking my food, so I'm a hold-out on that stuff.

    Ahhh...refreshing. Reasonable discussion.

    I already use a protein shake most days. And personally, I follow an even higher recommendation of a about 1.2g per lb of bodyweight, so it really is very difficult. I'm glad you can appreciate that. I won't touch soy products because of the potential hormonal risks that have yet to be proven or disproven either way.

    Edit: Baked beans generally come tinned and loaded with sodium. I have no idea what their un-baked name would be here.
    Edit Edit: googled and found they're known as Haricot Beans.
    http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1338225806693
    57g per kg, cost for 200g of protein £10.31

    What's the matter? You don't want man boobs? The Chinese eat tons of soy, and you know, I always wondered why those photos of Chairman Mao looked so top heavy.

    Seriously though folks, that's all a crock. I hae a study financed by PETA which proves that soy is harmless. What's that you say? PETA's a bias source and you believe they have an agenda? Follow the money?

    Okay, so I guess you wouldn't believe these stories about soy if they were financed by the Meat and Dairy industry, right? Come on, be consistant. In fact the meat and dairy industry is behind the totally absurd things you have been told about soy. Soy is a brain food. Why do you think the Chinese are so good at math. Sounds like you could use a little soy. Read it and weap:

    http://zenhabits.net/soy/

    So now I'm unintelligent for not wanting to consume soy? As someone that gained weight partly due to low testosterone in my late teens, I think my concern about not wanting to consume anything that can replicate the same effects as oestrogen are valid. The PETA is an organisation set up to combat 'cruelty' to animals so they're hardly unbiased.

    I think the Chinese are good at maths because their culture requires them to study hard and expect no reward for laziness.

    I don't know anything about low testosterone, and I was joking about PETA having an article on this. What I wasn't joking about was that the meat and dairy industry is behind the nonsense about soy giving you man boobs.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
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    if-you-could-reason-wth-religious-people-there-would-be-no-religious-people-house-500x375.jpg

    And now let us all pray to the altar of Monsanto and the other corporate kings who bring us 'cheap' meat.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
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    As a mock-vegetarian, I do not eat "processed" food, by which I mean "fake meats" unless I have made them myself, for example my famous black bean "burgers". Even then, we don't think of them as meat replacements, but a different kind of meal.

    Good for you! Why do you call yourself a "mock vegetarian?" Because you occasionally have meat? Your diet sounds pretty good to me.

    yeah, that's why. i won't turn something down that has meat in it, but usually if it's by my own choice, I'll go without. It makes it a bit easier at social functions and I do plenty of my part by not driving, buying first-hand, bringing my own bags, composting, blah blah... I feel like if I want to have a slice of ham every once in a while, it's no big deal.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
    Options
    One thing that seems to be missing is mention of the fact that a lot of vegetables are genetically modified nowadays. There are organic options for both sides, and mass production methods for both sides as well.

    Genetic modification of vegetables does not involved "growth hormones." Plants are genetically modified to make them resistant to plant diseases. In effect, what the geneticists are doing is speeding up nature.

    If you ever have the opportunity to see what corn looked like hundreds of years ago, you can see what has happened. Originally, corn was scrawny with few kernels. Farmers, with no knowledge of genetics selectively bred the better corn and the result was much different from wild corn, i.e., the corn we know today. This was, in effect, genetic engineering, not unlike breeding corn that is resistant to certain diseases to get a resistant strain, or inserting a resistance gene into the DNA of a non resistant strain.

    Again we are talking apples and oranges when comparing making plants resistant to diseases verses injecting steroids into cows. Yes, you have good reason to worry about the meat but little reason to worry about the corn.

    http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/11/61210#

    this is partially true, but the difference is letting a plant make its own, natural strength by breeding vs. crossbreeding species, like GMOs do. It's a significant difference that many people don't know about.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
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    As a mock-vegetarian, I do not eat "processed" food, by which I mean "fake meats" unless I have made them myself, for example my famous black bean "burgers". Even then, we don't think of them as meat replacements, but a different kind of meal.

    Good for you! Why do you call yourself a "mock vegetarian?" Because you occasionally have meat? Your diet sounds pretty good to me.

    yeah, that's why. i won't turn something down that has meat in it, but usually if it's by my own choice, I'll go without. It makes it a bit easier at social functions and I do plenty of my part by not driving, buying first-hand, bringing my own bags, composting, blah blah... I feel like if I want to have a slice of ham every once in a while, it's no big deal.

    I'd love your recipe for black bean burgers if you care to share.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
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    I am vegetarian, my opinion. You wanna eat meat? eat meat. You wanna be vegan? Be vegan. Not eating meat isnt going to 'save' animals nor will it make a dent enough for the industry to care. Dont force your personal beliefs on the other people because they eat something you dont.

    I have been vegetarian since I was a little kid and am comfortable being vegetarian! This is my choice and no one elses.

    /rant.

    'Obamacare' was passed because everyone should be entitled to health care when they're ill, regardless of their social standing.





    Your opinion. I don't discriminate by social class, but anyone who makes good lifestyle choices should be granted frist choice of care, if and when they need it. People who make bad choices don't deserved the same level of care since they probably caused the problem themselves.

    who decides "good"? driving cars is fairly unhealthy, too. just sayin'.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
    Options
    As a mock-vegetarian, I do not eat "processed" food, by which I mean "fake meats" unless I have made them myself, for example my famous black bean "burgers". Even then, we don't think of them as meat replacements, but a different kind of meal.

    Good for you! Why do you call yourself a "mock vegetarian?" Because you occasionally have meat? Your diet sounds pretty good to me.

    yeah, that's why. i won't turn something down that has meat in it, but usually if it's by my own choice, I'll go without. It makes it a bit easier at social functions and I do plenty of my part by not driving, buying first-hand, bringing my own bags, composting, blah blah... I feel like if I want to have a slice of ham every once in a while, it's no big deal.

    I'd love your recipe for black bean burgers if you care to share.



    I'll post it in "recipes" as to not derail this intelligent & considerate discussion. :)

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