Did not ask for criticism

sjmgde

I am surprised this thread has not been locked. HMMMMM

Sumo813

VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals, under the supervision of a doctor. Even then, they "may be no more effective than less severe dietary restrictions in the long run."

Can you please provide the reference that states a BMI of 30 is considered "morbidly obese?" Thank you. (keep in mind that a 5'9" man who weighs 203 lbs has a BMI of 30).

No one said a BMI of 30 = morbidly obese

Maybe you didn't read the whole post. First he wrote this:
"VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals, under the supervision of a doctor."

Then he referenced this:
"VLCDs are designed to produce rapid weight loss at the start of a weight-loss program in patients with a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30 and significant comorbidities."

And again, this:
"Very low-calorie diets are generally safe when used under proper medical supervision in people with a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30. Use of VLCDs in people with a BMI of 27 to 30 should be reserved for those who have medical complications resulting from their obesity."

I guess maybe I should have gone with 30.1 instead of 30...

I don't see anywhere in here where the article states BMI of 30 = Morbid Obesity. It's just one reference indicating the VLCD is typically restricted to morbidly obese individuals... and then goes on to say that it produces results in folks with a BMI of 30 or greater.

I agree that it's a bit of a crossed channel, but I think that's all and it's just assumptions being tossed about based on "recommended for morbidly obese people" and then the next line making a similar statement of it producing results, but actually including a BMI #.

Just my 0.02.

shar140

A morbidly obese man consumed zero calories for over a year in the 1970s to get down to a normal weight that he maintained. It was under medical supervision.

Yep, I was about to mention this as well, I just had to track down a reference. Here ya go!

"Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration" - yes, a man ate nothing for over a year, and lost 276 lb while under medical supervision. He did gain some back, but 5 years later was still maintaining a 260 lb loss.
Reference: http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.abstract

Yes, n=1 in this case, but so did the Twinkie diet that is referred to frequently.

(Note though, five other individuals had died doing a fasting study previously. And this man was given vitamins & minerals during his fast, WHICH WAS MEDICALLY SUPERVISED.)

SandyAnnP

Well said, and in a respectful way which is the way to go.

CyberEd312

I'll bite..... and even those of us that was off the chart for the BMI (which I was BMI was once 74.8) from day 1 working with a Nutritionist and my Family Doctor (and Endo Dr. for my type 2 Diabetes) never once was there any discussion of putting me on a Very Low Calorie Diet. The game plan was to eat enough to support a 1 to 2 lb. a week weight loss and after 4 weeks of adjusting my calorie intake and carb counting we settled in on 2500 calories a day and 240 grams of carbs a day... After average 102 lbs. weightloss the past 3 years (3 year anniversary in 3 weeks) I am now eating 3200 calories a day and 340 grams of carbs and still losing weight.... I could not comprehend eating so very little............ and I agree with other, this is a public forum and if you don't want to be criticized then don't post..... I don't think people are being mean, they are just concerned..... Best of Luck

BaconMD

How the **** do people eat so little and still have the energy to post their VLCD propaganda on these forums? I'm struggling to stick with my 625 cals four times a day!

Psychoanalytic

Sorry but yes it is a known fact that eating such a small amount over extended periods of time will cause your organs to stop functioning properly. Not criticising just stating a fact, but be my guest to continue as you please

Gastric bypass patients eat that much for the REST OF THEIR LIVES and are fine. Not everybody's bodies are the same.

Not all gastric bypass patients are fine.....I take care of them

This. I've had to haul them out on stretchers for this same crap. Let me tell you how fun THAT is. :noway:

zaithyr

Sorry but yes it is a known fact that eating such a small amount over extended periods of time will cause your organs to stop functioning properly. Not criticising just stating a fact, but be my guest to continue as you please

Gastric bypass patients eat that much for the REST OF THEIR LIVES and are fine. Not everybody's bodies are the same.

Not necessarily. My mom had gastric bypass surgery and years later she is dealing with malnutrition and nearly had a heart attack and died from it.

shar140

Sorry but yes it is a known fact that eating such a small amount over extended periods of time will cause your organs to stop functioning properly. Not criticising just stating a fact, but be my guest to continue as you please

Gastric bypass patients eat that much for the REST OF THEIR LIVES and are fine. Not everybody's bodies are the same.

A morbidly obese man consumed zero calories for over a year in the 1970s to get down to a normal weight that he maintained. It was under medical supervision.

That is impossible. Are you telling me he was on a saline drip for over a year and did not eat anything but water?

I am trying to find info on this and am having a hard time coming up with anything

I've been searching too...nada. You'd think that would have journals written about it, and no medical journal sites have anything on this. I call BS

It's true, see my previous post.

GasMasterFlash

Perhaps you could read the articles, Champ.

Here is your first link: http://rfoweightloss.med.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=32

When I try to go to that URL, I get the following error: Bad Request (Invalid Hostname)

It's pretty moot - as another poster has already pointed out, 30 is not the cutoff for "morbidly obese." Here is a link that should work: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Morbid+Obesity

It defines morbid obesity as:

"the condition of weighing two or more times the ideal weight; so called because it is associated with many serious and life-threatening disorders."

The UCLA link has broken since I first cited a while back.

The UCLA article mentions "severely or morbidly obese individuals" and no specific BMI numbers.

The NIH article mentions "body mass index (BMI) greater than 30 and significant comorbidities" and "patients with a BMI of 27 to 30 should be reserved for those who have medical conditions due to overweight, such as high blood pressure".

According to the two reputable sources (UCLA & NIH), VLCD is only advised, under medical supervision, for:

- Severely or morbidly obese individuals
- BMI greater than 30 and significant comorbidities
- BMI of 27 to 30 who have medical conditions due to overweight, such as high blood pressure

The OP has made no indication that he/she fits into any of those categories.

UsedToBeHusky

...

tmauck4472

It is not criticism, it is the truth -- and MyFitnessPal rules do not condone the use of unhealthy weight loss methods, including VLCD and/or diet pills.



Your truth and mine differ. I take it as criticism, especially when I feel differently about it. You say it's unhealthy and I also don't believe that...MY goodness Drew Carey lost all his weight on the Adkins diet and some believe that to be unhealthy. Reality is its to each his own.

NoAdditives

VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals, under the supervision of a doctor. Even then, they "may be no more effective than less severe dietary restrictions in the long run."

Can you please provide the reference that states a BMI of 30 is considered "morbidly obese?" Thank you. (keep in mind that a 5'9" man who weighs 203 lbs has a BMI of 30).

No one said a BMI of 30 = morbidly obese

Maybe you didn't read the whole post. First he wrote this:
"VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals, under the supervision of a doctor."

Then he referenced this:
"VLCDs are designed to produce rapid weight loss at the start of a weight-loss program in patients with a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30 and significant comorbidities."

And again, this:
"Very low-calorie diets are generally safe when used under proper medical supervision in people with a body mass index (BMI) greater than 30. Use of VLCDs in people with a BMI of 27 to 30 should be reserved for those who have medical complications resulting from their obesity."

I guess maybe I should have gone with 30.1 instead of 30...

I don't see anywhere in here where the article states BMI of 30 = Morbid Obesity. It's just one reference indicating the VLCD is typically restricted to morbidly obese individuals... and then goes on to say that it produces results in folks with a BMI of 30 or greater.

I agree that it's a bit of a crossed channel, but I think that's all and it's just assumptions being tossed about based on "recommended for morbidly obese people" and then the next line making a similar statement of it producing results, but actually including a BMI #.

Just my 0.02.

Yeah. I think quibbling about it was just nitpickyness for the sake of being nitpicky.

becoming_a_new_me

A morbidly obese man consumed zero calories for over a year in the 1970s to get down to a normal weight that he maintained. It was under medical supervision.

Yep, I was about to mention this as well, I just had to track down a reference. Here ya go!

"Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration" - yes, a man ate nothing for over a year, and lost 276 lb while under medical supervision. He did gain some back, but 5 years later was still maintaining a 260 lb loss.
Reference: http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.abstract

Yes, n=1 in this case, but so did the Twinkie diet that is referred to frequently.

(Note though, five other individuals had died doing a fasting study previously. And this man was given vitamins & minerals during his fast, WHICH WAS MEDICALLY SUPERVISED.)

Reading through this, he was given extensive supplementation and as you stated that while this ONE patient was successful, many others have died. Just because one person beat the odds does not mean that everyone should try it....especially if they are not under medical supervision

opus649

VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals, under the supervision of a doctor. Even then, they "may be no more effective than less severe dietary restrictions in the long run."

I don't see anywhere in here where the article states BMI of 30 = Morbid Obesity. It's just one reference indicating the VLCD is typically restricted to morbidly obese individuals... and then goes on to say that it produces results in folks with a BMI of 30 or greater.

I agree that it's a bit of a crossed channel, but I think that's all and it's just assumptions being tossed about based on "recommended for morbidly obese people" and then the next line making a similar statement of it producing results, but actually including a BMI #.

Just my 0.02.

Maybe I read it wrong, but the first time I read the post, I assumed that the phrase "VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals" was the poster's words, not a citation from any study. As such, it was the poster using the phrase "morbidly obese" to describe those put on VLCD's by doctors. Since later citations pointed at the number 30, the conclusion then is that the poster was saying 30+ = morbidly obese.

If the aforementioned phrase was actually a citation and not the poster's own words, then I misunderstood.

(edited to remove all of the copy pasta)

UsedToBeHusky

Perhaps you could read the articles, Champ.

Here is your first link: http://rfoweightloss.med.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=32

When I try to go to that URL, I get the following error: Bad Request (Invalid Hostname)

It's pretty moot - as another poster has already pointed out, 30 is not the cutoff for "morbidly obese." Here is a link that should work: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Morbid+Obesity

It defines morbid obesity as:

"the condition of weighing two or more times the ideal weight; so called because it is associated with many serious and life-threatening disorders."

The UCLA link has broken since I first cited a while back.

The UCLA article mentions "severely or morbidly obese individuals" and no specific BMI numbers.

The NIH article mentions "body mass index (BMI) greater than 30 and significant comorbidities" and "patients with a BMI of 27 to 30 should be reserved for those who have medical conditions due to overweight, such as high blood pressure".

According to the two reputable sources (UCLA & NIH), VLCD is only advised, under medical supervision, for:

- Severely or morbidly obese individuals
- BMI greater than 30 and significant comorbidities
- BMI of 27 to 30 who have medical conditions due to overweight, such as high blood pressure

The OP has made no indication that he/she fits into any of those categories.

Just assuming that the OP's goal weight is, in fact, a healthy one, then she will fall into those categories. But I seriously doubt that she is under medical advisement.

4rgl

I don't see the point of you starting this thread as I don't see what the problem is.

what I believe to be true you may believe in something different. That's what makes us human. If we all believed the same thing this would be a boring place.

But here you are getting upset because people didn't support something they think is unhealthy. You might think it's healthy but there are others who don't so don't expect them to cheer you on. Like you said, we all believe in different things and that's perfectly normal.

And what's wrong with criticism? Why are you getting so defensive? If you don't agree with it and think what you're doing is working for you, ignore it. If you can't take criticism or get all worked up over it then don't post on a public forum.

Also, have you considered that it might be concern?

Lastly, have you considered being a little more open minded? Maybe... just maybe this one time that you might be wrong and that there might be some truth to the criticism you are receiving?

GasMasterFlash

A morbidly obese man consumed zero calories for over a year in the 1970s to get down to a normal weight that he maintained. It was under medical supervision.

Yep, I was about to mention this as well, I just had to track down a reference. Here ya go!

"Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration" - yes, a man ate nothing for over a year, and lost 276 lb while under medical supervision. He did gain some back, but 5 years later was still maintaining a 260 lb loss.
Reference: http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.abstract

Yes, n=1 in this case, but so did the Twinkie diet that is referred to frequently.

(Note though, five other individuals had died doing a fasting study previously. And this man was given vitamins & minerals during his fast, WHICH WAS MEDICALLY SUPERVISED.)

Help me out. The last two lines in the summary seem to contradict one another.

"These increases may be due to dissolution of excessive soft tissue and skeletal mass. Prolonged fasting in this patient had no ill-effects."

Dissolution of soft tissue and skeletal mass are not ill effects?

shar140

So you are using your knowledge as evidence that this impossible feat actually happened. If there are no calories, then there are no nutrients. The body shuts down and you starve to death. Death from starvation takes around 4-6 weeks.

If you had actually read my first post, 1) it referenced a case study, and 2) he received vitamin and mineral supplements.

GasMasterFlash

Maybe I read it wrong, but the first time I read the post, I assumed that the phrase "VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diets) are only recommended for morbidly obese individuals" was the poster's words, not a citation from any study. As such, it was the poster using the phrase "morbidly obese" to describe those put on VLCD's by doctors. Since later citations pointed at the number 30, the conclusion then is that the poster was saying 30+ = morbidly obese.

If the aforementioned phrase was actually a citation and not the poster's own words, then I misunderstood.

I was citing the UCLA study.