Fat Acceptance
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OK I'm just going to put this out there for everyone who is saying that people being obese just affects them. The overall cost added to the US military healthcare budget due to issues related to people being overweight are in excess of 1.1 billion. With an annual cost of out processing and replacing 1200 service members annually of between 50-60 millions. Issues further related to overweight personnel ( poor performance or missed work) are close to 1 billion dollars. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:OrP5zpb2f0UJ:www.cfah.org/hbns/archives/viewSupportDoc.cfm?supportingDocID=500+increased+military+health+cost+due+to+weight&hl=en&gl=bh&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgPyRez5zYNRLQfeKgG5_QcAWOWBk95GhviG75S1PSrR5jNrChFlz9SB0qpCVnlkSkQrOoJteZLxCWv2-Qs93tOFbbZcbKzckitqrNlbC2ndDR3H7sDM2a1e9WMxgW5GWZd2Nln&sig=AHIEtbSsGhyNA1TvqPbjtWGW8xTCPXP_xw&pli=1
OK now why would I use military? The answer is easy. The data for civilians is inconclusive and difficult to track (the main reason why your able to make that argument of yours) due to the fact that civilians are not required to have recorded data on weight gain or loss of physical performance. Military personnel are require biannual weigh ins and performance and health assessments. This allows the medical system to track the additional cost of those members who are overweight (bmi 25+). Now here's the fun part. On just the military side alone you can say that people choosing to be overweight is costing us all money as well as diverting funds away from our security and r&d. Now if you apply the same percentage to the general population, which let's be honest here is probably much higher, the cost move into the hundreds of billions. And while yes you have your own insurance, a large portion of hospital cost are subsidized by the government and reflected in the annual budget. This doesn't even factor for when Obama's unified healthcare plan comes into play. So why yes its your body, its my money, and my countries security you are affecting.
*sorry other countries I don't have your data0 -
Although I think FA probably does a lot of good and helps people feel better about themselves, I don't like that they tend to discourage people from trying to lose weight and be healthier. I'm all for accepting people regardless of their appearance, weight, whatever (after all, it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS what anyone other than myself looks like), but I've read several FA blogs and seen outright hostility towards fat people trying to lose weight, as though they're betraying other fat people somehow.0
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Fat people know they're fat. They're not blind. To me, fat acceptance is recognizing the person within the person, and treating them with the same humanity we should treat all others. Be kind, as everyone is carrying within them a struggle.
DISAGREE. Not with the mean-don't-treat-with-dignity thing-It's the blind comment.
I see pictures of myself from 20 years ago I don't recognize. Obviously I was that size, but don't remember being that big or acknowledging THAT is what I looked like. SO i SAW, BUT DIDN'T 'SEE.'
My mother was always a big lady.. I always thought of her as 'heavy.' Once in a doctor's office the doctor was getting something approved and used the words (not to her, to whoever he was talking to) 'grossly obese' as a medical term.. I was SHOCKED but yes, that was the proper term.
I'm in the performing arts. I find it painful to watch fat dancers and performers. Once, on TV a performer was dressed in a crop top and hip huggers (a sixties thing-the costumer should have been fired).. she was carrying about 5 extra pounds, mostly in her lower tummy... she would move across the stage and stop and... wait for it... her belly didn't... it jiggled its way to stillness... REMARKABLY distracting and yes, gross.. so sitting with friends in front of a tv and laughing at her and crowing about eeewuuuuuu is not the same as saying it to HER...
Working for a public school we are NOT allowed to mention weight to a student... in light of the first lady's health initiative I think we should be allowed.. especially in a performing arts high school and ESPECIALLY that fat is the new cigarette... (I said it when they were first talking about smoking bans...fat people are next... it came faster than I expected but it came.). As it stands, kids have to grow up, get to college, then most decide it's time to do something about the weight. We can save them years as well as assure their college dollars are better spent if they enter performance programs physically fit and ready for the challenges... yet we are not permitted...0 -
Yanicka says it right... Although being 5-10 pounds over is no big deal NOW but over time this catches up to you.
Now people who have a high BMI because of muscle mass and are lowering their body fat through diet and exercise are a different story.
I am not for fat acceptance its a stupid thing to have the idea thats it ok to be fat! We were not meant to be fat!0 -
Everyone, please step back and repeat after me.
Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy.
Continue repeating until you get it through your head.
Unfortunately that's a total crock. The truth is some people handle extra weight better than others... until they don't. I've met many older people who are healthy and have their wits. NONE of them were overweight for even part of their lives. I've also spent much time around units that care for people with Alzheimers and dementia. Very few of the patients were slender in their earlier adult lives.
There's a TREMENDOUS difference between being healthy and just not having a diagnosis of an acute disease at this very moment. It goes beyond risk factors. It also has to do with whether you're functioning at the lower or upper end of normal as well as whether your functioning is declining.
Now there are people, who because of biological issues, have a much harder time controlling their urges and weight. They shouldn't be demonized. But it's absolutely absurd to call them healthy because some of them are not on lots of medication or in need of medical procedures at this very moment.
Wrong both my great great grandmothers were larger lady's during their adult life, (not very morbidly obese but deffenitly obese to todays standers) any who they both were very physically active there entire lives, the one lived to be almost 90 and my other great grandmother is 89 and going strong, she has bet cancer three times, she has over come three heart attacks, and she still insists on doing the disheous,
now my grandmother who died in her 50's was very lean,
the only thing that happened to my great grandparents weight is it naturally dropped off when they got up there in age, and from what I heard it's good to have extra weight to loss when you have a disease,0 -
"most smokers can't quit cold turkey" I have. "most alchoholics can't quit cold turkey" I did. "most people can't sustain their long term weight loss" looks like another theory I WILL prove wrong!!!!!0
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I think its stupid as hell. That's just saying its perfectly ok to be unhealthy. It's not ok. And our children should not be taught that.
AGAIN: Repeat: NOT ALL FAT PEOPLE ARE UNHEALTHY.
What the fck? Yes they are. Compared to if they were leaner they are unhealthy.0 -
Cancer three times and three heart attacks. Both often linked to being overweight, and both fatal for mostEveryone, please step back and repeat after me.
Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy. Not all fat people are unhealthy.
Continue repeating until you get it through your head.
Unfortunately that's a total crock. The truth is some people handle extra weight better than others... until they don't. I've met many older people who are healthy and have their wits. NONE of them were overweight for even part of their lives. I've also spent much time around units that care for people with Alzheimers and dementia. Very few of the patients were slender in their earlier adult lives.
There's a TREMENDOUS difference between being healthy and just not having a diagnosis of an acute disease at this very moment. It goes beyond risk factors. It also has to do with whether you're functioning at the lower or upper end of normal as well as whether your functioning is declining.
Now there are people, who because of biological issues, have a much harder time controlling their urges and weight. They shouldn't be demonized. But it's absolutely absurd to call them healthy because some of them are not on lots of medication or in need of medical procedures at this very moment.
Wrong both my great great grandmothers were larger lady's during their adult life, (not very morbidly obese but deffenitly obese to todays standers) any who they both were very physically active there entire lives, the one lived to be almost 90 and my other great grandmother is 89 and going strong, she has bet cancer three times, she has over come three heart attacks, and she still insists on doing the disheous,
now my grandmother who died in her 50's was very lean,
the only thing that happened to my great grandparents weight is it naturally dropped off when they got up there in age, and from what I heard it's good to have extra weight to loss when you have a disease,0 -
Yanicka says it right... Although being 5-10 pounds over is no big deal NOW but over time this catches up to you.
Now people who have a high BMI because of muscle mass and are lowering their body fat through diet and exercise are a different story.
I am not for fat acceptance its a stupid thing to have the idea thats it ok to be fat! We were not meant to be fat!
just playing devil's advocate: but we're not meant to eat meat nor drive cars. both of those things have negative impact on our life spans. we're not meant to drill for oil so our fat *kitten* can watch cable television with tv dinners.
so it's not really about what we are "meant" to do. if people did what they were meant to do, the world would be a very different place.0 -
I think its stupid as hell. That's just saying its perfectly ok to be unhealthy. It's not ok. And our children should not be taught that.
AGAIN: Repeat: NOT ALL FAT PEOPLE ARE UNHEALTHY.
What the ****? Yes they are.
Considering that healthy is determined by may other factors besides weight, no. No, they aren't.0 -
Fat acceptance is unacceptable IMO. I am fat, and I hate it and always have and it resulted from poor choices and excuses. All fat people will be healthier at a healthy weight, even if they are 'healthy' as their fat self.0
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Fat people know they're fat. They're not blind. To me, fat acceptance is recognizing the person within the person, and treating them with the same humanity we should treat all others. Be kind, as everyone is carrying within them a struggle.
Fat people have a harder time finding jobs, getting proper health care. finding a companion and many other factors co exist within all of this. Also when your fat especially morbidly obese depression is often a key factor why the morbidly continue to be morbidly obese and do not change.
I do think that there is a point of no return for many obese in that they just give up on life and do not change. I am not saying its with everyone but if you look around you in todays world we often see the importance of our outer world satisfaction then satisfying what we really need to do. Economics should not stop a person from losing weight but yet I think most people who are over weight put out excuses to stay fat and get fatter and yet expect their leaner counter parts to not look at them and say HUH? What the heck? Lose some weight!
I can also say that not all obese are the same. Some do have problems for whatever reason that they can't lose weight but to give up on this is no excuse either.0 -
Obesity is linked to a big increase in cancer risk alone (ignoring the whole well-studied long-term risk of cardiovascular disease).
Sources:
Obesity and cancer
Eugenia E Calle and Michael J Thun
Oncogene (2004) 23, 6365–6378. doi:10.1038/sj.onc.1207751
Large prospective studies show a significant association with obesity for several cancers, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer has classified the evidence of a causal link as 'sufficient' for cancers of the colon, female breast (postmenopausal), endometrium, kidney (renal cell), and esophagus (adenocarcinoma). These data, and the rising worldwide trend in obesity, suggest that overeating may be the largest avoidable cause of cancer in nonsmokers. Few obese people are successful in long-term weight reduction, and thus there is little direct evidence regarding the impact of weight reduction on cancer risk. If the correlation between obesity and cancer mortality is entirely causal, we estimate that overweight and obesity now account for one in seven of cancer deaths in men and one in five in women in the US.
Overweight, obesity and cancer: epidemiological evidence and proposed mechanisms
Eugenia E. Calle & Rudolf Kaaks
Nature Reviews Cancer 4, 579-591 (August 2004)
The prevalence of obesity is rapidly increasing globally. Epidemiological studies have associated obesity with a range of cancer types, although the mechanisms by which obesity induces or promotes tumorigenesis vary by cancer site. These include insulin resistance and resultant chronic hyperinsulinaemia, increased bioavailability of steroid hormones and localized inflammation. Gaining a better understanding of the relationship between obesity and cancer can provide new insight into mechanisms of cancer pathogenesis.
Google scholar has hundreds of similar articles available if you wish to read up on it: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=obesity+and+cancer&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=j0zKT9HEN4mi8QTqzb2JDw&ved=0CBcQgQMwAA
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Furthermore, heart disease starts in childhood especially in children and adolescents with higher than normal BMI:
The Relation of Overweight to Cardiovascular Risk Factors Among Children and Adolescents: The Bogalusa Heart Study
David S. Freedman, PhD, William H. Dietz, MD, PhD, Sathanur R. Srinivasan, PhD, Gerald S. Berenson, MD
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/103/6/1175.short#aff-2
Overweight and obesity and weight change in middle aged men: impact on cardiovascular disease and diabetes
S Goya Wannamethee, A Gerald Shaper, Mary Walker
J Epidemiol Community Health 2005;59:134-139
Context: The benefit of weight reduction for cardiovascular disease (CVD) outcomes remains uncertain.
Objective: To examine the effects of baseline body mass index on major CVD outcomes and diabetes over a 20 year follow up, and of weight change in the first five years over the subsequent 15 years.
Design and setting: A prospective study of British men followed up for 20 years.
Participants: Men aged 40–59 years with no diagnosis of CVD or diabetes (n = 7176) of whom 6798 provided full information on weight change five years later.
Outcome measures: Major CVD events (fatal and non-fatal myocardial infarction and stroke, angina, “other” CVD deaths) and diabetes.
Results: During the 20 year follow up there were 1989 major CVD events and 449 incident cases of diabetes in the 7176 men. Risk of major CVD and diabetes increased significantly with increasing overweight and obesity. During the 15 year follow up, weight gain was associated with increased risk of CVD and diabetes. Weight loss was associated with lower risk of diabetes than the stable group irrespective of initial weight. No significant cardiovascular benefit was seen for weight loss in any men, except possibly in considerably overweight (BMI 27.5–29.9 kg/m2) younger middle aged men (RR = 0.42; 95% CI 0.22 to 0.81).
Conclusion: Long term risk of CVD and diabetes increased significantly with increasing overweight and obesity. Weight loss was associated with significant reduction in risk of diabetes but not CVD, except possibly in considerably overweight younger men. Duration and severity of obesity seem to limit the cardiovascular benefits of weight reduction in older men.
Want more? Here ya go: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=overweight+cardiovascular+disease&hl=en&as_sdt=0,10&as_vis=1
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My point here is that though you may be overweight and healthy NOW, the real risk is long-term obesity and overweightness. THAT is what causes serious health problems, not short term or acute obesity. To say otherwise is to be totally blind to the real risk. That's why it's critical to nip this in the butt early on in life before the damage occurs.
Back to the original topic:
No, I don't think fat acceptance is a good idea. That doesn't mean that people should be treated as less than equal because they are overweight or obese, but I think we need to adopt a culture that encourages people to get healthy and stay that way for the long-term health and success of our societies.0 -
this thread is like arguing with a doorknob.0
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here's the thing not all people who have access body fat are out of shape when I was in my early 20's I was about 220, I am 5'8 and I was doing palaties every day, riding my bike up hill for hours, I also unloaded truck by hand and out worked most of the guy's I worked with, then went and weight lifted at the gym, I was very inshape for and not just for an overweight person, PLUS I eat healthy foods, water, milk, mineral water (nothing eles) home made ffod like chicken, fish, oat meal, eggs, salad every day with the vinigeret dressing, and five fruits a day, not servings but whole fruits, I had no medical problems, and could run a mile streight threw in about 12 min, which my skinny sister could baarly walk up the stairs with out huffing, I could run up them.
The only thing the doctars could say was unhealthy about me was that my weight reflicted a weight they said was to high, other then that I was healthy as a horse
You were in your early 20s and, in all frankness, a 12-minute mile is not really all that fast for a young, truly fit person. See what the doctors say when you're 35 if nothing has changed. 220 pounds is lot of pressure to put on your joints, among the many other metabolic changes that being obese causes to the body over time.
For every one I knew it was a good time spesh sense I just started getting into running, and the toehr thing is I have a LOT of muscle mass, at around 200 I am a "normal size" but the point is I was healthy, I was eating healthy and working out like crazy, my sister who is very lean but eats like crap and does not work out is haveing all sorts of meadical problems know, sooooo I think your logic is wrong, its not just the weight that matters, its the way people treat there body's, and while being drastically over weight, like were you can't walk up stairs is bad jut have some extra fat there is no medical evedence that that is harmful,0 -
Fat people have a harder time finding jobs, getting proper health care. finding a companion and many other factors co exist within all of this. Also when your fat especially morbidly obese depression is often a key factor why the morbidly continue to be morbidly obese and do not change.
omg, this is so ridiculous. maybe the healthcare part, but that's because we let insurance agents make our health decisions; or at least some of us do.
i have never in my life had a problem getting a boyfriend, lover, partner or husband if I wanted it. pshaw... somebody's been feedin; you guys a load of garbage.0 -
Yanicka says it right... Although being 5-10 pounds over is no big deal NOW but over time this catches up to you.
Now people who have a high BMI because of muscle mass and are lowering their body fat through diet and exercise are a different story.
I am not for fat acceptance its a stupid thing to have the idea thats it ok to be fat! We were not meant to be fat!
just playing devil's advocate: but we're not meant to eat meat nor drive cars. both of those things have negative impact on our life spans. we're not meant to drill for oil so our fat *kitten* can watch cable television with tv dinners.
so it's not really about what we are "meant" to do. if people did what they were meant to do, the world would be a very different place.
I agree with this but to not eat meat? Are you crazy??? LOL The inuit eat nothing but fat and hunters and gatherings ate mostly meat or wild bore etc.
In modern world things are different but I still agree that we should not have fat humans.0 -
How about we throw away all this bologna...fat acceptance, gay acceptance, blah blah blah...it really gets on my nerves...how about PEOPLE acceptance and call it a day...0
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Yes there is. I already cited it and a nice lady a few post up cited a whole bunch of sources.
here's the thing not all people who have access body fat are out of shape when I was in my early 20's I was about 220, I am 5'8 and I was doing palaties every day, riding my bike up hill for hours, I also unloaded truck by hand and out worked most of the guy's I worked with, then went and weight lifted at the gym, I was very inshape for and not just for an overweight person, PLUS I eat healthy foods, water, milk, mineral water (nothing eles) home made ffod like chicken, fish, oat meal, eggs, salad every day with the vinigeret dressing, and five fruits a day, not servings but whole fruits, I had no medical problems, and could run a mile streight threw in about 12 min, which my skinny sister could baarly walk up the stairs with out huffing, I could run up them.
The only thing the doctars could say was unhealthy about me was that my weight reflicted a weight they said was to high, other then that I was healthy as a horse
You were in your early 20s and, in all frankness, a 12-minute mile is not really all that fast for a young, truly fit person. See what the doctors say when you're 35 if nothing has changed. 220 pounds is lot of pressure to put on your joints, among the many other metabolic changes that being obese causes to the body over time.
For every one I knew it was a good time spesh sense I just started getting into running, and the toehr thing is I have a LOT of muscle mass, at around 200 I am a "normal size" but the point is I was healthy, I was eating healthy and working out like crazy, my sister who is very lean but eats like crap and does not work out is haveing all sorts of meadical problems know, sooooo I think your logic is wrong, its not just the weight that matters, its the way people treat there body's, and while being drastically over weight, like were you can't walk up stairs is bad jut have some extra fat there is no medical evedence that that is harmful,0 -
Yanicka says it right... Although being 5-10 pounds over is no big deal NOW but over time this catches up to you.
Now people who have a high BMI because of muscle mass and are lowering their body fat through diet and exercise are a different story.
I am not for fat acceptance its a stupid thing to have the idea thats it ok to be fat! We were not meant to be fat!
just playing devil's advocate: but we're not meant to eat meat nor drive cars. both of those things have negative impact on our life spans. we're not meant to drill for oil so our fat *kitten* can watch cable television with tv dinners.
so it's not really about what we are "meant" to do. if people did what they were meant to do, the world would be a very different place.
I agree with this but to not eat meat? Are you crazy??? LOL The inuit eat nothing but fat and hunters and gatherings ate mostly meat or wild bore etc.
In modern world things are different but I still agree that we should not have fat humans.
Wild boar; yes, when they could catch it. then they shared it with the village. That is hardly equitable with what people call meat today.
And the Inuit, yes, in what we call Alaska, ate what they could find, just like anyone else. Winters are long in Alaska. Inuits are not naturally thin people. Come to think of it, neither are the Germans, who coincidentally are northern and eat "a lot' of meat (but still nothing by comparison to today's standards).0
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