Fat Acceptance
Replies
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Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.
The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I frequent are:
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
http://www.lindabacon.org/
http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/
AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.
www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
http://manolobig.com/
Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).0 -
Yes. Umeboshi, I'd love to hear your take on the official positions of the FA movement. We can all agree that hate and ignorance are awful, but do you really agree with the official FA stance? If you haven't read the link in the OP, you should. Fat people should be accepted and treated as human beings, but the positions stated here are full of holes and bad for people on a whole:Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.
Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.
You agree with what's provided in the OP? Did you even read the link?
http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/education/faq.html (this is the link from the OP)
I agree with the official stance, though I'm not sure why it matters to you.
Why do you always go on the offensive? It is a valid question, if you pose a specific stance, how about you back that up with a detailed opinion rather than snippy answers? I think you are a very intelligent young lady, but that get hidden behind your poor additude. I too am curious about which part of the FA movement you agree with, and why? Not because I want to attack you, but because I am open to your opinion.0 -
Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.
The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I still frequent are:
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
http://www.lindabacon.org/
http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/
AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.
www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
http://manolobig.com/
Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).
Gotta add http://www.cupcakesclothes.com/ to the fatshion list! Georgina is a total doll.0 -
I was just hoping you were confused, that's all. You said that hate and ignorance are unacceptable, and I'm not sure anyone in this thread has disagreed. But to quote myself (since you ignored it the first time around):
Yes. Umeboshi, I'd love to hear your take on the official positions of the FA movement. We can all agree that hate and ignorance are awful, but do you really agree with the official FA stance? If you haven't read the link in the OP, you should. Fat people should be accepted and treated as human beings, but the positions stated here are full of holes and bad for people on a whole:Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.
Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.
You agree with what's provided in the OP? Did you even read the link?
http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/education/faq.html (this is the link from the OP)
I agree with the official stance, though I'm not sure why it matters to you.
If you disagree please explain how the official FA position fights hate and ignorance. I'm just trying to figure out why you seem to support FA but don't actually reiterate any of the points they promote.From what I read on the link provided by the OP the fat acceptance movement is not at all about fighting ignorance and hate. In most cases, it's about changing society to support the unhealthy choices by people who refuse to change.
Hate and ignorance are things that we should all rally against. But it seems to me those ideals are far removed from the official FA positions.0 -
I was just hoping you were confused, that's all. You said that hate and ignorance are unacceptable, and I'm not sure anyone in this thread has disagreed. But to quote myself (since you ignored it the first time around):
If you disagree please explain how the official FA position fights hate and ignorance. I'm just trying to figure out why you seem to support FA but don't actually reiterate any of the points they promote.From what I read on the link provided by the OP the fat acceptance movement is not at all about fighting ignorance and hate. In most cases, it's about changing society to support the unhealthy choices by people who refuse to change.
Hate and ignorance are things that we should all rally against. But it seems to me those ideals are far removed from the official FA positions.
As SSerum stated, FA is a large movement made up of many groups. NAAFA happens to focus on the importance of anti-discrimination legislation. I agree with NAAFA. I agree with many other individuals and FA groups.
In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination. Obviously a standpoint against the ignorance and hate thrown at fat people on a constant basis.
I'm assuming NAAFA is focusing on legislation because that is a much more attainable and closer goal as far as getting some form of protection for fat people. Changing society's BS is a difficult process that will take a lot longer, but legislation is a very good way to start. MANY movements regarding civil rights, including LGBT movements, have focused first and foremost on legislation. That's why LGBT people are pushing so hard for the Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA), because legislation can provide protection until society catches up to the necessary level of basic human decency.
To quote NAAFA, "In real world situations, education alone has never been enough to stop discrimination of any kind. It takes advocacy and legislation to create an inclusive environment where all sizes of people are respected and valued."0 -
Fair enough. I've got absolutely no problem with consumer options that make life easier for obese people. But please hear me out on this. The FA link provided by the OP is the most visible proponent for the term and idea you are defending. This entire thread was started to discuss the views propagated on http://www.naafaonline.com. THAT'S the bottom line. I think those views are bogus, but no one who disagrees wants to defend the views on that site.Grrr. Internet issues ate this post, so I am trying again.
The Fat Acceptance movement is more than the NAAFA. There is a community of people, bloggers, tumblr, with various focuses, operating at various levels of extreme (as in with many communities... animal rights, environmental rights). Many of those blogs offer a community and ideas that are necessary I think valuable, whether or not you ascribe to every tenet of NAAFA. Some of the ones I frequent are:
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/
http://thefeedingdoctor.com/
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
http://www.lindabacon.org/
http://ed-bites.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/1160018@N21/pool/
http://haescommunity.org/search_registry.php
http://www.flickr.com/groups/athletesateverysize/pool/
AND the Fatshion movement is great. It gives resources on where to find clothing of various sizes, and affirms that you can look great even if you aren't built like a supermodel.
www.pearlslaceandruffles.com/
http://manolobig.com/
Through one of those blogs, I found www.eshakti.com/default.aspx an online store where you can buy affordable custom made clothing... which is great for anyone who is hard to fit. Short? Tall? Overweight? Pear shaped? A Combination? Check it out. I intend to buy my pear-shaped self a dress there when I reach my goal. (IF I reach my goal, because if I eat, I exercise and I stop losing, I'll adjust my macros, I'll change my workouts, I'll go to the Dr., but I will not starve myself or disengage from social activities simply to lose weight).
If you don't agree with naafaonline.com, but you want to define "fat acceptance" as a general view that overweight people should not be treated inhumanely, then SPEAK UP and do your best to take back the phrase.0 -
I've finally found the rub... I believe for the vast majority of people, being fat is a choice. I also think that for most people, being fat is unhealthy. I think it is wrong to protect people from a personal decision that is unhealthy. Bottom line, when it comes down to it, I side on personal choice, not legislation. NAAFA is THE most visible proponent of "your" cause. And they are full of it.In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination.0 -
Ah, perhaps I should have saved myself the time and effort. But whatever, tomorrow is my sleep in day :drinker:Fat acceptance is unnacceptable.
Ignorance and hate are unacceptable.
Your old posts are hilarious & I'm glad I looked cause now I know not to carry on responding to you. You are a gross troll. A bad one I might add.0 -
I've finally found the rub... I believe for the vast majority of people, being fat is a choice. I also think that for most people, being fat is unhealthy. I think it is wrong to protect people from a personal decision that is unhealthy. Bottom line, when it comes down to it, I side on personal choice, not legislation. NAAFA is THE most visible proponent of "your" cause. And they are full of it.In the link you keep posting (which doesn't single-handedly represent everthing FA stands for), NAAFA states: "Weight bias contributes to negative emotional, social, economic, and physical health issues for fat people. It is a pervasive form of discrimination, being faced by people every day of their lives.". This is in reference to the everday treatment of fat people, not just legislation against workplace and other discrimination.
You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.0 -
As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).
More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.
Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
As for the health insurance debate, I find it interesting that people always want to point out the expenses of obesity (which are debatable), but what about people who choose to have 8 children?
Or people who work out until their knees crumble?
Or people who drink alcohol until they have cirrhosis?
Or people who starve until they have osteopenia?
Drink sodas until they have Kidney stones?
Or partake in extreme sports or ride motorcycles and end up catastrophically injured...
ALL BY THEIR CHOICE.
If there are to be exclusions (which I don't agree with), why wouldn't they be determined by people who actually HAVE medical problems, instead of all obese people, healthy or not? 185 lbs, I was obese by .2 or .3 points on the BMI scale.. should I really have LOST my insurance.. .or pay more than someone that eats fast food every day, is a non-compliant diabetic and has high blood pressure but is .3 points below me in BMI?
I have no health problems (other than a rare congenital condition that causes no problems until pregnancy) (even that pesky osteopenia is reversed).
Speaking of, how many post-partum women would edge into the obese BMI briefly and lose their insurance?
Think.0 -
You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
Slippery slope fallacy.
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
According to NAAFA:
"Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.
To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"
Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.0 -
bludger acceptance.0
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You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
Slippery slope fallacy.
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
According to NAAFA:
"Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.
To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"
Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.
Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.0 -
I think we should all accept each other the way we are. The problem arises when acceptance leads to laziness and gets in the way of self-improvement.
If you start off in pursuit of a goal with the presupposition that you are 'not ok' the way you are, then you will keep chasing it forever and never be happy with yourself. If you accept yourself the way you are, you can still make yourself better in whatever way you choose, but instead of it being 'fixing' something, it can be an enjoyable adventure. By accepting other people the way they are, we can help them to do the same.
On the other hand, this does not excuse people being destructive or harmful to themselves or others. I certainly accept that people have the right to choose that course of action, but I also have the right to choose not to associate with or support such people.
Just my 2c.0 -
My mother was fat most of my adult life. She would go on diets once or twice a year and then just stop. One day she basically told me that she just didnt care anymore and that she was happier that way. She died of a heart attack 3 years ago at age 59, in large part to her unhealthy eating. I remember looking at her death certificate and seeing an X marked by "obese" I knew that she was at an unhealty weight, but I never considered her obese. Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed her harder to eat better, maybe walked with her or something, gotten her to join my gym, i dont know. Why did my mom die at 59 years young? You can accept being fat, but just remember who you might also be affecting because of it.0
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I believe that every person should be accepted as they are, but encouraged to improve themselves to be better than what they are at the time.0
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Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.
Anecdotal evidence.0 -
I'm sorrry for your loss and to a point I can relate. My father is obes and have a myrid of health problems. He got a pacemaker at 46 and has battled prostate cancer. Due to more recenet health problems he been put on a strict dietso that he can have gastric bypass. I agree with everything you said. I am very big myself and I got three kids I need to be around for. I sure as hell don't want them to go thru what I went thru. So to me being fat for me is not ok and I think its horrible to teach our kids that its ok to be fat. Like I said before there should be just acceptance for all people and treat every one with respect.My mother was fat most of my adult life. She would go on diets once or twice a year and then just stop. One day she basically told me that she just didnt care anymore and that she was happier that way. She died of a heart attack 3 years ago at age 59, in large part to her unhealthy eating. I remember looking at her death certificate and seeing an X marked by "obese" I knew that she was at an unhealty weight, but I never considered her obese. Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed her harder to eat better, maybe walked with her or something, gotten her to join my gym, i dont know. Why did my mom die at 59 years young? You can accept being fat, but just remember who you might also be affecting because of it.0 -
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).
More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.
Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.0 -
We should never accept it. Ever. We all share the huge amount of costs our government pays out for obesity related issues. This doesn't just include health costs alone ( which are substantial) but also retrofittong to public transportation and buildings to handle the new load of people. Other costs even include the larger amount of fuel needed to transport these people. Any time someone actslike it just affects them tell them no we are all paying for your poor decisions and lack of motivation0
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Obviously people don't lobby for a gay-only parking spot, however I have seen people in real life lobby for special parking accomodations because of weight despite the lack of physical disability. If the event has in fact happened, it is therefore not a fallacy.
Anecdotal evidence.
factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]0 -
I am 100% for fat acceptance even if i don't agree with someone's lifestyle or eating habits. Who am i to judge someone else's body? In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. If someone is happy with their weight and are healthy then i applaud them, contentment takes a lot in today's society. To all the people complaining about how fat other people are.. until you buy their food or want to hire them a personal trainer, it's really no one's else's business. People can post as many links as they want about "proof and "facts", but people shouldn't be classed as numbers, we all have issues and reasons. How dare anyone presume to think a stranger is over weight due to being lazy, that is so ignorant. I know there are lazy people out there, but don't lump every over weight person together.0
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I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.0
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factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]
And your evidence is completely unrelated to NAAFA and their legislation goals, and were not advocated for by NAAFA.0 -
I In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. .
Its called anorexia and or bulimia and its made fun of all the time.0 -
I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.
What about when they shorten their childrens lifes and pretty much ensure they will be bullied in school?0 -
I In some cases being too thin is just as bad for the body, yet that lifestyle choice isn't shamed or made fun of. .
Its called anorexia and or bulimia and its made fun of all the time.
Not everyone who is underweight is anorexic or bulimic. And these two disorders shouldn't be made fun of either. They're genuine illnesses.0 -
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).
More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.
Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.
It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.
But when people start talking about insurance, rights and accessibility of services, the cut-off could well be the clinical definition of obese, or even overweight, it COULD be morbidly obese, but there is no way to know until it happens, which is why there is a movement to prevent such things from happening.
Canada has already considered bans on fertility treatment for obese women. As of right now, the standard measure of obesity is BMI.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/health-news/canadian-mds-consider-denying-fertility-treatments-to-obese-women/article2173941/
I started this journey 5'5, 185, BMI 30.8. www.bmicalculator.org .
No health issues except a non-weight related congenital condition (unicornuate uterus), that will affect my fertility and pregnancies. There is a high likelihood that I will need fertility services and I hope my insurance will cover some of it. Granted, I am a U.S. citizen, but that STILL hits close to home, and there are some fertility Drs., that will require you to lose weight before they will treat you.0 -
Slippery slope? Did you even read what iddreams posted? She spoke about fat discrimination and how she overcame it and you counter with a copy and pasted definition that doesn't even apply and has no meaning to anything she said...You and I seem to have very similar viewpoints. When I was 450#, I did not expect "special treatment". I did however want to be treated like a human. Even now at 260#, people who do not know my history judge me and treat me like crap. I don't let it happen for very long any more because I am confident enough to voice my opinion. Just today at the Gym, I had a guy make a snide comment about me being too fat to be there. I can tell you what, not only did he get an earful, but I reported him to the facility and he was asked to leave for the day and put on warning. No one should have to be judged harshly without knowing the circumstances, but in my opinion, this advocacy group is pushing the envelope. Next, they'll be demanding special parking spots for weight-challenged individuals.
Slippery slope fallacy.
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.
According to NAAFA:
"Discrimination towards fat people in the workplace, education system, and healthcare system has been clearly documented and is growing rapidly. Weight discrimination was reported by 7% of US adults in 1995-96, and almost doubled to 12% by 2006.
To improve working conditions, healthcare, and overall quality of life for millions of Americans, weight must be added to the list of categories covered in anti-discrimination laws. This can be accomplished on a federal, state, or local level"
Obviously, the main issues to NAAFA are workplace discrimination, discrimination in schools, and the way fat patients are often given sub-par care by doctors. Laws protecting other groups from these same issues are already in place, but I've never seen anyone lobbying for a gay-only parking spot.
artmrn was right.0 -
factual evidence:
http://voices.yahoo.com/1990-ada-revisited-obesity-qualify-people-for-6567792.html
The ADA has been forced to expand it's interpretation of disability. But should obesity qualify a person for ADA benefits and considerations? What benefits might an obese person qualify under the ADA? The ADA was initiated primarily to assist handicapped people to get equal rights and fair treatment compared to non-handicapped people. Handicapped accessible work environments and public facilities, special parking permits and equal opportunity employment were the primary focus of the ADA. So the consideration for obesity as a handicap would include things like handicapped parking permits, motorized cart accessibility, extra large bathroom and work site facilities and furniture. As we found with the implementation of the initial ADA requirements, these structural changes can be rather costly for employers and public institutions.
and
http://overlawyered.com/2010/02/obese-woman-wins-human-rights-fight-for-parking-spot/
Obesity-as-disability in Canada: “Marise Myrand said her condo association discriminated against her by denying her a parking spot closer to her building entrance.” She’s now won a favorable ruling from the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal and a $10,000 settlement. [The Globe and Mail, h/t reader Vicky G.]
And your evidence is completely unrelated to NAAFA and their legislation goals, and were not advocated for by NAAFA.
Perhaps not, but when the door is opened to classify obesity as a protected class, more of these types of law-suits will come up. You may see it as unrelated, but it will happen. Don't get me wrong, I do think that there should be very specific guidelines that prevent employers from discriminating against weight. Read my initial post on this subject...I've experienced weight discrimination in the workplace, and it totally sucks because there is no repurcussion....especially in a right to work state, such as where I live.
One thing that also sucks, is people ASSUME that if you have a handicap permit and are overwieght that you got the permit because of it. I have a permit, but I got mine AFTER I lost the majority of the weight. I seldom use it, but when my fibromyalgia and arthritis are flaring, I absolutely use it...but that doesn't stop the snide comments about my weight being the reason. Sometimes a person can have a disability that is unseen to the naked eye. You wouldn't be able to tell that I am in excruciating pain by looking at me. When I am walking slow and limping, it is assumed it is because of weight, but really it is becase of a chronic pain condition.
I am not anti-FA, I just think that it needs more specific guidelines than what is being requested.0
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