Fat Acceptance

SweetSammie

As with other movements that I participate in on some level (animal rights and rescue, women's rights), groups I maintain membership to NEA (teacher's union), I DO support the overall message AND mission, while not necessarily every single objective, statement or faction. I COULD go through and copy and paste what I do and do not agree with, but some things I would have to sit and really weigh deeply (and its 2:22 a.m. here, and I am going on a 4 mile hike tomorrow).

More than that, I think the community and resources offered are PRICELESS. I also, frankly, and personally grateful for NAAFA, since they spawned Shapely Prose, The Fat Nutritionist, Ed BItes and all of the other blogs that brought me to the place I am at today.

Shaming people makes them ashamed, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive. I think that Fat Acceptance wouldn't exist if there wasn't a problem. I think our own bodies are the one place where we should have unbridled control. To try to take that away is ... dangerous.

I don't have any first hand knowledge of the community and resources offered by NAAFP, so I will defer to you on that. I also agree with a few of your points. But I disagree on this one:

I don't think a world biased against fat people produces anything positive.

It all comes down to your definition of "fat". (****, why do late night debates always end up at semantics? :yawn: ) When I think of fat, I think of myself, 100+ pounds overweight. A world biased against me is called natural selection.

But when people start talking about insurance, rights and accessibility of services, the cut-off could well be the clinical definition of obese, or even overweight, it COULD be morbidly obese, but there is no way to know until it happens, which is why there is a movement to prevent such things from happening.
Canada has already considered bans on fertility treatment for obese women. As of right now, the standard measure of obesity is BMI.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/health-news/canadian-mds-consider-denying-fertility-treatments-to-obese-women/article2173941/

I started this journey 5'5, 185, BMI 30.8. www.bmicalculator.org .

No health issues except a non-weight related congenital condition (unicornuate uterus), that will affect my fertility and pregnancies. There is a high likelihood that I will need fertility services and I hope my insurance will cover some of it. Granted, I am a U.S. citizen, but that STILL hits close to home, and there are some fertility Drs., that will require you to lose weight before they will treat you.

Well even though no one is talking about insurance, you got me there. BMI is bull****. The insurance game is disgraceful. Unfortunately I don't know how to get around it short of winning the lottery. But I do know that advocating and protecting a lifestyle that is unhealthy most people is not the answer.

There ARE people in this thread who HAVE blasted off about health insurance - which falls under workplace discrimination for many Americans - why should my or your benefit package be different from our peers?
I think the key to advocating and protecting a lifestyle is that we are advocating and protecting personal choice or autonomy, freedom of CHOICE. I can CHOOSE to live my life how I please and until MY FREEDOM impedes on that of others it is MY LIFE.

I know some people will argue that expenses impede, but do they have numbers, statistics? How DO WE KNOW that they wouldn't have that disease if they were not obese? What about the smokers, drinkers, people with 8 kids, extreme sports players, ect., ect. Those who choose to drive SUVs hurt the environment. Those who choose to eat endangered fish hurt ecosystems. Those who smoke OFTEN do it around their children, that's not illegal. Nor is pregnant women doing drugs... even though that can cause damaged children who tax the system for their entire life... what about this guy in Knoxville, TN (I think) who has fathered some crazy number of children (30?) and can't support them? Are we going to target EVERY choice that is a drain on the public system?

MoreBean13

Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...

How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.

I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.

We shouldn't. Society should promote programs to increase health by encouraging exercise, healthy diet, and regular doctor visits and screenings, and proper self care for mental health. One can be healthy AND fat, and earlier in the thread I posted a few things supporting that, and more studies turn up all the time supporting the fact that health is more than weight.

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

For more information on weight and heath, I highly recommend reading this post by Kate Harding:
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

I have to admit, I have a knee-jerk reaction to this view point, but I will read the post you suggested. Education is king.

mandydoll

Actually no, it isn't always called anorexia or bulimia at all. That is so ignorant is actually quite sad.

Drenched_N_Motivation

Unless you have a classified eating disorder, you are just fat, You did it to yourself no one should be creating clubs in order to celebrate that, I am not saying any one needs to disrespect them or any thing but why do you need a special pity party to "accept" your fatness ?

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!!

SweetSammie

Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...

How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.

I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.

We shouldn't. Society should promote programs to increase health by encouraging exercise, healthy diet, and regular doctor visits and screenings, and proper self care for mental health. One can be healthy AND fat, and earlier in the thread I posted a few things supporting that, and more studies turn up all the time supporting the fact that health is more than weight.

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

For more information on weight and heath, I highly recommend reading this post by Kate Harding:
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

I have to admit, I have a knee-jerk reaction to this view point, but I will read the post you suggested. Education is king.

That response is refreshing.

Umeboshi

Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...

How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.

I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.

We shouldn't. Society should promote programs to increase health by encouraging exercise, healthy diet, and regular doctor visits and screenings, and proper self care for mental health. One can be healthy AND fat, and earlier in the thread I posted a few things supporting that, and more studies turn up all the time supporting the fact that health is more than weight.

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

For more information on weight and heath, I highly recommend reading this post by Kate Harding:
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

I have to admit, I have a knee-jerk reaction to this view point, but I will read the post you suggested. Education is king.

That response is refreshing.

Ridiculously refreshing. :flowerforyou:

carld256

One thing that also sucks, is people ASSUME that if you have a handicap permit and are overwieght that you got the permit because of it. I have a permit, but I got mine AFTER I lost the majority of the weight. I seldom use it, but when my fibromyalgia and arthritis are flaring, I absolutely use it...but that doesn't stop the snide comments about my weight being the reason.

I have to admit that the one of the very few times I'm judgmental about fat people (keeping in mind that I'm one myself) is when I see an obese person *without a handicapped placard* parking in a handicap spot. I can't help but think that they're taking a handicapped spot away from someone who might really need it.

wlaurel

I don't agree with it at all. However, I do remember my sister coming home from dr. appointments crying because she was told that she was overweight for her age... she was TEN!!! How many of us had baby fat then? A lot of us. That always made me mad... if a child is overweight it's the parents fault. They should have talked to my mom, not my sister.

Cold_Steel

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

They have had plenty of campaigns to address ED like bulimia and anorexia and you can blame nearly every woman's fashion magazine for the majority of that. The bottom line though is; social issues arise from numbers. There are more fat people most likely then then there are severely under weight unhealthy types.

I don't think society in general condones unhealthy skinny body types. Women like Sofia Vergara, Salma Hayek, Marilyn Monroe etc would not have become sex symbols if the media strictly portrayed only bean poles as sex symbols...

SweetSammie

Actually no, it isn't always called anorexia or bulimia at all. That is so ignorant is actually quite sad.

I'm tired and wasn't going to go into EDNOs and all of the new classifications recently made by the APA, so thanks.

Umeboshi

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

They have had plenty of campaigns to address ED like bulimia and anorexia and you can blame nearly every woman's fashion magazine for the majority of that. The bottom line though is; social issues arise from numbers. There are more fat people most likely then then there are severely under weight unhealthy types.

I don't think society in general condones unhealthy skinny body types. Women like Sofia Vergara, Salma Hayek, Marilyn Monroe etc would not have become sex symbols if the media strictly portrayed only bean poles as sex symbols...

I think the problem you're having is that you're equating fat with unhealthy and thin with healthy and then underweight with unhealthy. There are thin/average people who are extremely unhealthy. Who do not eat healthy foods, who do not exercise, who do not seek health care. Their health is not addressed because they think they're fine because they're not fat.

KareBear_53

A person is more than their weight. They have thoughts, feelings, desires, and emotions just like a skinny person. To me, "fat acceptance" isn't saying being fat is healthy, or ideal, or idolized. Its accepting that the adjective "fat" isn't the sole defining characteristic of a person. Fat people deal with a lot of assumptions made about them - they're lazy, dumb, slow, low-class. You see a person, and judge them immediately, simply because of their weight. That is unfair, and dehumanizing. We all have an inner life that lives on regardless of how our exterior appears.

Fat people know they're fat. They're not blind. To me, fat acceptance is recognizing the person within the person, and treating them with the same humanity we should treat all others. Be kind, as everyone is carrying within them a struggle.

Cold_Steel

I hope the irony of "fat acceptance" being debated on a website that is designed to track calories in order for weight loss is not lost here.

Isn't that kind of what got us here in the first place (for the fat people here not fitness goal people or weight gainers) . We accepted our fatness and did nothing to correct it ?

becoming_a_new_me

Umeboshi - I have a serious question for you...genuine interest, no snark intended...

How can we, as a society, promote programs intended to curb obesity, without the effort being perceived as fat stigmatization? I mean you obviously are trying to get healthy, but also advocate fat acceptance? I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the two different things.

I am against discrimination in all forms, period. I don't think the issue is as simple as it being a choice, and that people need to eat less and move more. I think it's really a lot more complicated than that- though those directives are probably beneficial to almost every person suffering from obesity. I just don't exactly understand how to ideologically help solve the obesity epidemic without those effort being seen as condescending or attacks on fat people, etc.

We shouldn't. Society should promote programs to increase health by encouraging exercise, healthy diet, and regular doctor visits and screenings, and proper self care for mental health. One can be healthy AND fat, and earlier in the thread I posted a few things supporting that, and more studies turn up all the time supporting the fact that health is more than weight.

By focusing on obesity, society is ignoring the health of those who are thin but unhealthy.

The 'obesity epidemic' is a disgusting term and shames fat people and promotes treatment of fat people as a disease that needs to be eradicated.

For more information on weight and heath, I highly recommend reading this post by Kate Harding:
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

I have to admit, I have a knee-jerk reaction to this view point, but I will read the post you suggested. Education is king.

Here is the problem with much of the NAAFA lobbies....none of it includes an education program for focusing on health. It includes education on non-discrimiation of fat people, but not on education to be more healthy.

http://www.naafaonline.com/dev2/education/haes.html

NAAFA supports the principles of Health At Every Size (HAES). These principles are aligned with our mission of protecting the rights and improving the quality of life for fat people. Instead of focusing on weight as a measurement of health, the HAES approach removes weight from the equation and replaces it with a focus on overall well being, which includes the full range of body shapes and sizes.

General Principles
Accepting and respecting the diversity of body shapes and sizes
Recognizing that health and well-being are multi-dimensional and that they include physical, social, spiritual, occupational, emotional, and intellectual aspects
Promoting all aspects of health and well-being for people of all sizes

Promoting eating in a manner which balances individual nutritional needs, hunger, satiety, appetite, and pleasure

Promoting individually appropriate, enjoyable, life-enhancing physical activity, rather than exercise that is focused on a goal of weight loss

mandydoll

It isn't your business what someone does with their body unless they want feed back. Want to make a change? Then buy them the correct food, train them, encourage them.. I have no desire to reply to your stupid replies any more, i mean really a "pity party"? It's people like you who make people scared if they're bigger than a size 4.

carld256

I don't agree with it at all. However, I do remember my sister coming home from dr. appointments crying because she was told that she was overweight for her age... she was TEN!!! How many of us had baby fat then? A lot of us. That always made me mad... if a child is overweight it's the parents fault. They should have talked to my mom, not my sister.

I'm pretty sure if you're not a baby then it's just regular old fat. I watched a teacher in my high school tell an obese 18-year-old student that he was just carrying baby fat. But you're right, at that age the parents have a huge say in what and how much their kids eat.

fraser112

I hope the irony of "fat acceptance" being debated on a website that is designed to track calories in order for weight loss is not lost here.

Isn't that kind of what got us here in the first place (for the fat people here not fitness goal people or weight gainers) . We accepted our fatness and did nothing to correct it ?

Quick we need a name for this so we can medicate it and claim we are being discriminated against

Something disorder always goes down well.
Notsofatanymore rexia?

fraser112

It isn't your business what someone does with their body unless they want feed back. Want to make a change? Then buy them the correct food, train them, encourage them.. I have no desire to reply to your stupid replies any more, i mean really a "pity party"? It's people like you who make people scared if they're bigger than a size 4.

i stand by if you say its not a fat persons fault they are fat,
then they have the right to abuse their children by making them obese and how can you say its ok for the parents, then take the children away from them ?

unsuspectingfish

I believe in body acceptance and letting people do with their bodies what they want to do, because it's THEIR body and therefore no one else's business.

What about when they shorten their childrens lifes and pretty much ensure they will be bullied in school?

That's not what they're doing to their body. That's what they're doing to someone else's body.

Yeah but making being obese acceptable you are putting it on par Being a minority or being being disabled.

A white man cannot change the fact his kids will have his skin tone.

An obese person who is obese because ohh its not my fault who has obese children has every right to keep his kid fat because hey its not his fault.
So kids will suffer, like it or not fat kids get bullied im sure most people on here can remember school days.

OK, but I don't see how this has anything to do with what I said, which is that body acceptance = allowing an adult to do whatever the hell they want with THEIR OWN BODY, because it's no one else's business. When it starts directly affecting the health of other adults or children, then, yes, we have a problem.

SweetSammie

I hope the irony of "fat acceptance" being debated on a website that is designed to track calories in order for weight loss is not lost here.

Isn't that kind of what got us here in the first place (for the fat people here not fitness goal people or weight gainers) . We accepted our fatness and did nothing to correct it ?

Yes, which is your decision for your personal autonomous body. I am here to aid in engaging in a healthy lifestyle. I am aiming to lose weight at this time, but my main purpose to to help myself eat nutritious, well rounded meals, move my body in a way that is fun and healthful and really learn to listen to my body and what it does and does not need.

I don't think it is ironic. There are fat people here. It's an issue, but the idea is not far from what is parroted here "every body is different, what works for me isn't what works for you."